Abortion....

[BullRat]

1) Yes or no.. why or why not?

2) Is it really murder?

3) Should it be illegal?

[mattymetro]

Well I would have an opinion but I honestly dont have enough facts about feeling and the different stages of the pregency...

I would think that abortion would be no different then being killed in your sleep. So I might be pro choice. Sometimes I wish that I had been aborted.

[EvilGovernmentAgents]

I think that this is a decision best left to the womanfolk. So I don't really have a opinion on the matter

[thedirtiestjamocan]

Well, if you really want to break it down, everything on this whole damn planet is just a bunch of neutrons, electrons, and protons, all in different combinations (plus a few other minor subatomic particles). Gold is the same as shit, just different combinations of the same particles. So, life is really just an abstract idea as it is just a different path of movement for certain particles. Thus, one cannot define things even more abstract such as morality and murder if life itself is not a significant concept. Living things have as much significance as nonliving things in that aspect. Thus, aborting an embryo is nothing more than moving the particles that it is made up of into a seperate lovation where they will continue to be dynamic. Nothing is really destroyed. Even if thw whole human race were to be wiped out, would it really matter? We would think so, as we are humans and self preservation is in our nature, but, broken down, a human is no different than a rock. Our existance does not effect the universe.

[Freakapotimus]

At 2/27/03 02:14 AM, UNpossible wrote: I think that this is a decision best left to the womanfolk. So I don't really have a opinion on the matter

Many believe that abortion should be the woman's choice, and fight to keep the man's opinions "out of her body." However, if a woman keeps the baby, the father is expected to pay child support, whether or not he had any say in the decision. The baby (or fetus, or tissue mass, or blob, whatever you want to call it) wouldn't be there if it weren't for the consenting actions of both a man and a woman; therefor the opinions and emotions of both partners should be considered. However, in cases of sexual assault resulting in pregnancy, the man should have no say, because the woman had not consented to having sex.

[TheEvilOne]

At 2/27/03 03:01 AM, thedirtiestjamocan wrote: Well, if you really want to break it down, everything on this whole damn planet is just a bunch of neutrons, electrons, and protons, all in different combinations (plus a few other minor subatomic particles). Gold is the same as shit, just different combinations of the same particles. So, life is really just an abstract idea as it is just a different path of movement for certain particles. Thus, one cannot define things even more abstract such as morality and murder if life itself is not a significant concept. Living things have as much significance as nonliving things in that aspect. Thus, aborting an embryo is nothing more than moving the particles that it is made up of into a seperate lovation where they will continue to be dynamic. Nothing is really destroyed. Even if thw whole human race were to be wiped out, would it really matter? We would think so, as we are humans and self preservation is in our nature, but, broken down, a human is no different than a rock. Our existance does not effect the universe.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say... if you're saying that abortion is OK, because in the end, it doesn't affect the grand scheme of things, then, by that logic, couldn't you say that murder is OK? Morality might be an invented concept, but a world without morals would be a world where everyone just ran around, killing people and taking things. It would be every man for himself. It would be utter chaos. It might not ultimately matter in the grand scheme of things, but it does matter to us while we are here.

[Ted-Easton]

Abortion is clearly and obviously NOT murder.

Muder is:The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

And since abortion is LAWFUL, saying that it is murder is just purposeful stupidity.
And no, it should not be illegal.
A fetus is not a human, a fetus does not have a "right to live", and the woman has no reason to be forced into bearing thw child unwillingly.

[JMHX]

At 2/27/03 03:23 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: Abortion is clearly and obviously NOT murder.

Muder is:The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

And since abortion is LAWFUL, saying that it is murder is just purposeful stupidity.
And no, it should not be illegal.
A fetus is not a human, a fetus does not have a "right to live", and the woman has no reason to be forced into bearing thw child unwillingly.

A fetus has no way of living on its own...nothing. It's just a chunk of tissue in the woman's body. Sure, abort it. I'm all for abortion. It's going to be hard running for Senate with that one.

[RoboTripper]

Abortions tickle

[Pristorn]

I'm pro-choice. But it's not just a decision to be left to the woman who is pregnant. Afterall, it takes two to tango.

Though the woman obviously has the FINAL say, the dude involved needs to fucking take responsiblity as well. You play, you get burned.

[bloody-me]

I have an idea, why don't we let the women who are pregant decide. I mean it is 'living' off their bodies and the public and government have no right to restrict them.

[JMHX]

At 2/27/03 07:55 PM, bloody_me wrote: I have an idea, why don't we let the women who are pregant decide. I mean it is 'living' off their bodies and the public and government have no right to restrict them.

Yeah. There we go. Why don't we strap the baby to George Bush and see how he feels about it.

[NEMESiSZ]

Abortion isn't murder until the baby can function independantly from the mother, meaning, until it developes a complete nervous system, until that point, it is part of the mother's body.

[PreacherJ]

I'm surprised at the lack of "Abortion is murder" posters in this thread. I'm a supporter of pro-choice, because, hey-

It is the girl's choice (as far as it being her body in the case of unconsentual sex, because the father to be should at least be consulted otherwise), the fetus is part of the mother, and, no matter what your ideals are, no matter how many times you firebomb the place, those will always be the facts.

Word.

[JMHX]

At 2/28/03 05:14 AM, PreacherJ wrote: I'm surprised at the lack of "Abortion is murder" posters in this thread.

Yeah. I expected to be bombarded with pictures and people saying nothing but "Abortion is Evil". I don't think the people from the General board have caught word of it, yet.

[lapslf]

People who are against abortion because it's murder are mostly right-wingers. And right-wingers mostly support eating meat, wich, in my eyes, is more like murder than killing a brainless bunch of cells.

conclusion: they're hypocrits.

[bumcheekcity]

At 2/27/03 12:38 AM, kittie_cross wrote: 1) Yes or no.. why or why not?

Yes. Why? Because a fetus isn't a human. It's a parasite, it feeds off a mother, makes her sick, takes her nourishement. We employ exterminators to do this with rats in their husands.

2) Is it really murder?

Yes, but no. If you define going into someones garage with a gas gun and killing millions of cockroaches, rats, flies etc murder, then yes.

3) Should it be illegal?

Nope. See above.

[RandomFreak]

At 2/27/03 12:38 AM, kittie_cross wrote: 1) Yes or no.. why or why not?

I wish people didn't get it done but being a man it's not my place to say whether or not they can.

2) Is it really murder?

I can't really make up my mind on that issue... basically for my way of thinking the child is alive once it's developed to the point that it could concievably outside the womb

3) Should it be illegal?

No for the simple reason that when it was illegal it didn't stop women from getting it done, it only made it impossible for them to get it done safely and many women died or were needlessly mutilated.

[PantyWipe]

i think abortions should be examined case by case. yeah abortions are great if the girl who wants one was raped, but you get these slutty welfare hounds who get knocked up 3 times a year at partys and then run to the clinic, i think thats wrong. abortion is murder in my opinion, because at any trimester it's a living organism. its their bodies so let them do what they want i guess.

[BullRat]

*sighs sadly and shakes head* I feel like I'm the only anti-abortionist here. I mean, and I the only one here that believes a fetus is a living organism? Hey, to change the topic around a bit, let's change the question, shall we?

What about partial-birth abortion, eh? Where the mother can be up to 9 months pregnant, than have an injection that forces her into labor, so that the child's head is out of her... this is where the doctor plunges a kinfe (or some other sharop thingy) into the back of the baby's head, and then procedes to vacuum out itts brain? Tell me that isn't sick and cruel and murderous!

[BullRat]

oh yeah.. sorry about the typos... I can't spell when I type really fast. >.<

I think the words I screwed up were "knife" "sharp" and "its."

[Spike-J-Wolfwood]

At 2/27/03 12:38 AM, kittie_cross wrote: 1) Yes or no.. why or why not?

Yes, it is every persons individual right to do whatever they want with their body. And yes it is still a part of the womans body.

2) Is it really murder?

It is basically like a parasite. If it needs the host to live I don’t see it as having a life of it’s own

3) Should it be illegal?

Yes

[TheEvilOne]

At 3/6/03 12:36 AM, kittie_cross wrote: *sighs sadly and shakes head* I feel like I'm the only anti-abortionist here. I mean, and I the only one here that believes a fetus is a living organism?

I'll back you up on this one. I do consider the fetus to be a separate living being, and I don't like abortion.

What about partial-birth abortion, eh? Where the mother can be up to 9 months pregnant, than have an injection that forces her into labor, so that the child's head is out of her... this is where the doctor plunges a kinfe (or some other sharop thingy) into the back of the baby's head, and then procedes to vacuum out itts brain? Tell me that isn't sick and cruel and murderous!

Whether abortion in general is murder is up for debate, I think there is no question that partial-birth abortion is murder. It doesn't matter if the mother hasn't gone into labor yet--at nine months, the baby can survive on its own.

[InSaNeFooL]

Ok, I have to say something about the "the fetus is a parasite" comments. Esentially every living organisim is a 'parasite' if you're going to use that broad a description of the word. All life form lives off of other living organisms to an extent. Humans are all parasites by your definition, as we feed off of the earth, make it sick, etc.
Rats and cockroaches? Come on now, did you put any thought into that statement? Exterminators gas rats and cockroaches because they actually endanger lives with diseases they carry, eat away at foundations and generally fuck shit up. Fetus' in no way comparible as they are offspring, the connection and resulting division of living cells, and DO HAVE A BRAIN, I forget how soo, but from what I remember it's within the first few weeks or sooner. An unborn child can not spread a disease that the parents did not give it, and only fuck shit up once they're born :P

Having said all that, I am pro-abortion, because really if you don't want to have a kid, you shouldn't be having kids. Many people who have kids shouldn't be having kids...

-ME

PS - To the guy who claimed abortions are only for rape victims and 'welfare whores', I'd like to punch you in the head for the thousands, if not millions of woman who get abortions, for their own good reasons, who are respected members of society, college students, or pretty much anybody in this world. GET OUT OF YOUR LITTLE BOX AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE WORLD!! Do we really need more children in this world?

[JMHX]

Having said all that, I am pro-abortion, because really if you don't want to have a kid, you shouldn't be having kids. Many people who have kids shouldn't be having kids...

You still ignore the fact that rape is a major factor in abortions. It's happened to a friend of mine, and thanks to the great Indiana government, she went through hell trying to get an abortion before finally doing so.

[InSaNeFooL]

You still ignore the fact that rape is a major factor in abortions. It's happened to a friend of mine, and thanks to the great Indiana government, she went through hell trying to get an abortion before finally doing so.

Actually I don't, I understand that it's probably the most valid reason (other than complications that could/will result in death). In my last paragraph I said that woman have their reasons, and guess I just assumed that people would see the connection.

[JMHX]

At 3/6/03 09:38 AM, InSaNeFooL wrote:

You still ignore the fact that rape is a major factor in abortions. It's happened to a friend of mine, and thanks to the great Indiana government, she went through hell trying to get an abortion before finally doing so.

Actually I don't, I understand that it's probably the most valid reason (other than complications that could/will result in death). In my last paragraph I said that woman have their reasons, and guess I just assumed that people would see the connection.

So, now I'm curious, what exactly do you feel on those lovely partial birth abortions. I, for one, am strongly against it. I have no problems about doing it when it's nothing but a chunk of placenta, but when it's formed, and has a brain, and is THERE, then no.

[BullRat]

I am very shocked at the number of pro-abortionists here... and I have a little question for them all:

Do you have any idea how many people in this worl drelly do want children, but b/c of some complication or another, are unable to bear children? WHy abort a child when you can just give it away right afer you give birth to it? At least that way it has the chance to live, and can really bring some joy into someone's else's life (like, all those unfortunate couples who are unable to have their own children). I believe in giving everyine a chance, and taking away that chance before they're even born is just evil and inconciderate.

Just my thoughts, but like, who really cares what the pro-lifey has to say, right?

[EvilBread]

I believe george carlin said it best when he said "If abortion is really murder then why do they say, we have 2 kids and one on the way, and not 3 kids?." Yes, if they are really concious and it is murder, why not say 3 kids? hmmmmmmmmm?

[EvilBread]

At 3/6/03 10:38 PM, EvilBread wrote: I believe george carlin said it best when he said "If abortion is really murder then why do they say, we have 2 kids and one on the way, and not 3 kids?." Yes, if they are really concious and it is murder, why not say 3 kids? hmmmmmmmmm?

but yes, I do agree that if you are considering abortion you shouldn't have had sex in the first place.