Weapons to Isreal?

[abluepillorafreemind]

I am Scottish and I whole heartidly agree that America has no right to use our civilian Airpiorts to transport weapons to Isreal. Now I'm not asking for peoples opinion on the middle Eastern conflict, thats another topic, but what do you NG users think of the measures that have been taken in Scotland to show that we do not support Isreals present course of action, or America abusing our nations "special friendship".

Postponing cricket matches, protests, and refusing funding fot the EFF from the Embassy are just some of whats going on. So what do other users think about this and whats happening where you are?

[Kev-o]

I think if we, the United States, give Isreal more weapons, other countries will become angrier with us.

[Kev-o]

I just realized, we both spelt Israel wrong.

[Korriken]

a lot of people spell israel wrong.

personally, i think if the other countries would stop attacking israel, the fighting would stop. its simple logic, but if israel attacked when no one else has, then you can blame israel.

[Athlas]

Not only is Israel at war with other nations, it is at war with itself.

[Caphcky]

At 8/2/06 05:08 PM, Athlas wrote: Not only is Israel at war with other nations, it is at war with itself.

What are you talking about? Israel is very united and support the war, and they're technically not at war with any nation, but even if it's Lebanon that's one nation, not nations.

[Athlas]

At 8/2/06 05:12 PM, Caphcky wrote: What are you talking about? Israel is very united and support the war, and they're technically not at war with any nation, but even if it's Lebanon that's one nation, not nations.

Israel is very united? Where the hell have you been the past 50 years?

Yes, I should have used singular instead of plural, you're right about that.

And yes, technically they're not at war. And technically, deodorant shouldn't wear of in the first 24 hours.

[HighlyIllogical]

We have an obligation to provide Israel with weapons. This obligation began with Truman being the first head of state to recognize Israel, and because the US was instrumental in helping it survive. We owe our only true mid-eastern ally at least that much. Plus, they help us out in terms of the military, without a doubt. Israel tested our weapons against Soviet tech, and they sell us their technology as well.

[DaSecondTerminator]

Ok , I live in the area where the Katyusha rockets fall , It's scary to hear explotions while you're stuck in the Safe-room 12 hours a day , and you get out only to go to sleep or go to the toilet.
I think that The United states have the right to send weapons to their allies , Even if its up to using Public airports. I think you all should help the Israeli people that are on NG couse their life is on danger , You need to help them and not stand against them and being mad of them couse they killed innocent people - The Hizoblla is hiding behind those people and sending rockets from their own home , Makes Israel have no choice but to attack those houses even if it has innocent people in it , For their own countrys Safety.

[HighlyIllogical]

Israel has the right to defend itself. That, and by helping Israel with moral, financial and military support, we are furthering the goal of eliminating terror.

[Begoner]

if israel attacked when no one else has, then you can blame israel.

What the hell are you talking about? In every single war, Israel is the aggressor. Israel is the one that completely flaunts the Geneva Conventions and wipes its ass on them. It razes Arab houses, it has engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Arabs (with US support, of course), and it annexes the territory of weaker neighboring countries each time it goes to war. I don't see how any rational person can side with Israel any more than they can side with Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.

[Caphcky]

At 8/2/06 05:26 PM, Athlas wrote:
Israel is very united? Where the hell have you been the past 50 years?

Yes, I should have used singular instead of plural, you're right about that.

And yes, technically they're not at war. And technically, deodorant shouldn't wear of in the first 24 hours.

Well I am talking about Israel proper, not the occupied territories. So that leaves basically only Jews plus a few others from other faiths, but they're quite unified, something like 88% support the actions last I head. I never said they weren't at war, they just aren't technically at war with a nation just with a terrorist group within another country.

[Caphcky]

At 8/2/06 06:16 PM, Begoner wrote:

if israel attacked when no one else has, then you can blame israel.

What the hell are you talking about? In every single war, Israel is the aggressor. Israel is the one that completely flaunts the Geneva Conventions and wipes its ass on them. It razes Arab houses, it has engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Arabs (with US support, of course), and it annexes the territory of weaker neighboring countries each time it goes to war. I don't see how any rational person can side with Israel any more than they can side with Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.

Unfortunetly it all stems back to the end of World War Two, since the European countries didn't want to 'waste' any of their land for a Jewish homeland, they decided to take a piece of the middle east to get them all out of Europe.

Personally it would've been a much better idea to take what's now the western bit of Russia, where Königsberg was and now called Kaliningrad and made that Israel right after World War Two. Firstly the land was part of Germany, so it's not really taking away anyone's 'rightful' land as it is in Palestine and it was the Germans who primarly persecuted the Jews. Secondly, there are no violent neighbors who would pose a threat like the Arab states (yes the USSR would've been there, but it's not like they would've declared war since they would've been part of NATO). Thirdly it has access to the ocean. If the land mass wasn't large enough, it could've been expanded to take up most of former East Prussia. But that did not happen, and the Europeans got the Jews out of Europe, but as you can tell there are quite a few problems going on in their new location. Just my opinion.

[RedSkunk]

GETTING BACK TO THE TOPIC-STARTERS ORIGINAL LINE OF DISCUSSION...

I don't think protesting at cricket matches is going to do much. I don't know if any amount of protest will do a whole lot, but even if it's just getting American transports to stop somewhere else (England, say?), then I guess the Scots' consciences would be a bit cleaner.. I suppose.

[Demosthenez]

At 8/2/06 06:09 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Israel has the right to defend itself. That, and by helping Israel with moral, financial and military support, we are furthering the goal of eliminating terror.

NO. When has Hezbollah ever attacked America or ever wanted to attack America out of Lebanon? When has Hamas or Fatah financed attacks against Americans abroad?

That is utter bullshit. Utter.

At 8/2/06 05:30 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: We have an obligation to provide Israel with weapons.

What? What? What? What?

Israel tested our weapons against Soviet tech, and they sell us their technology as well.

And we give them more money a year than their entire arms industry. Bullshit they deserve our money or weapons.

[SubKutz]

I find it funny how Israel are always portrayed as the victims. The US government dispensed $11bn of civil foreign assistance in 2004. Of this, Israel received $555m. Last year Israel also received $2.2bn of military aid.

Most of the money given by the US foreign military financing programme is spent in the United States. Israel uses it to obtain F-15 and F-16 jets; Apache, Cobra and Blackhawk helicopters, AGM, AIM and Patriot missiles, M-16 rifles, M-204 grenade launchers and M-2 machine guns. Laser-guided bombs, even now, are being sent to Israel from the United States.

Many of these weapons have been used to kill Palestinian civilians and are being used in Lebanon today. The US arms export control act states that "no defence article or defence service shall be sold or leased by the United States government" unless its provision "will strengthen the security of the United States and promote world peace". Weapons may be sold "to friendly countries solely for internal security, for legitimate self-defence or for maintaining or restoring international peace and security".

By giving these weapons to Israel, the US government is, in effect, stating that all its military actions are being pursued in the cause of legitimate self-defence, American interests and world peace. The US also becomes morally complicit in Israel's murder of civilians. The diplomatic cover this provides is indispensable.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/

[Guitarmy]

At 8/2/06 06:16 PM, Begoner wrote:

if israel attacked when no one else has, then you can blame israel.

What the hell are you talking about? In every single war, Israel is the aggressor. Israel is the one that completely flaunts the Geneva Conventions and wipes its ass on them. It razes Arab houses, it has engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Arabs (with US support, of course), and it annexes the territory of weaker neighboring countries each time it goes to war. I don't see how any rational person can side with Israel any more than they can side with Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.

You're a moron. In 1948, they were attacked by five Arab nations. In 1956 Egypt tried to take the Suez Canal, and lost. In 1967, the Israeli airforce bombed the Egyptian Airforce, and were invaded by Jordan, Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

[Dragon-Smaug]

At 8/2/06 10:22 PM, SubKutz wrote:

for legitimate self-defence

Exactly.

Also, the U.S. had already sold the weapons to Israel, it was merely speeding up the shipment of them.

Giving weapons to allies is something a country should do.

[SubKutz]

At 8/2/06 10:42 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote:

Also, the U.S. had already sold the weapons to Israel, it was merely speeding up the shipment of them.

Yeah, but how true is that? Anyway, my thoughts and views aren't going to resolve things over there, and they're certainly not going to stop America from doing what it wants. I feel sorry for both Israeli and lebanese civilians.

[AdamRice]

Seriously fuck Israel. Because of them all the Middle Eastern people hate the United States. Fuck Israel, let them handle their own damn problem!

[mynamewontfitin]

At 8/2/06 11:14 PM, fasdit wrote: Seriously fuck Israel. Because of them all the Middle Eastern people hate the United States. Fuck Israel, let them handle their own damn problem!

No, they hate the United States because a majority of the population is Christian. They hate Israel because a majority of the population is Jewish. They (not everybody) can't face the fact that they have to live with different people, so they try to obliterate them.

[mynamewontfitin]

At 8/2/06 10:03 PM, FAB0L0US wrote:

At 8/2/06 06:09 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Israel has the right to defend itself. That, and by helping Israel with moral, financial and military support, we are furthering the goal of eliminating terror.

NO. When has Hezbollah ever attacked America or ever wanted to attack America out of Lebanon? When has Hamas or Fatah financed attacks against Americans abroad?

That is utter bullshit. Utter.

Hezbollah hates Americans!
From BBC,
"In 1983, militants who went on to join Hezbollah ranks carried out a suicide bombing attack that killed 241 US marines in Beirut."

I'm sure if they had the power and the financial support they would bomb America as well because of their affiliation with Israel and overall involvement in the Middle East.

[Demosthenez]

At 8/3/06 03:09 AM, mynamewontfitin wrote: Hezbollah hates Americans!
From BBC,
"In 1983, militants who went on to join Hezbollah ranks carried out a suicide bombing attack that killed 241 US marines in Beirut."

I said outside of Lebanon. I was already aware of the Marine barracks bombing.

[abluepillorafreemind]

At 8/2/06 07:18 PM, red_skunk wrote: GETTING BACK TO THE TOPIC-STARTERS ORIGINAL LINE OF DISCUSSION...

I don't think protesting at cricket matches is going to do much. I don't know if any amount of protest will do a whole lot, but even if it's just getting American transports to stop somewhere else (England, say?), then I guess the Scots' consciences would be a bit cleaner.. I suppose.

I don't think it's about the Scots having a clear conscience, it's about America abusing Britains trust I suppose i should have said the main issue is that up until maybe 2 weeks ago America refused to disclose what was being carried on those planes. What makes me so mad abou this is that America (and goddamit my country too) are supposed to be fighting a war on terror, I can't see how the military action in question is little more than state sponsored terrorism.

The people of Lebanon are NOT Hezbolah, and saying that just because Hezbolah are based in that country that people are now legitimate targets is like saying the Irish are a legitamate target becaus eof of the IRA, or your goodselves the Americans because of the KKK. If this was anyother part of the world it would have been stopped by now.

Also surely British people should have the right to choose if they want to take part in operations that will undoubtably make us a legitimate ( as far as any target can be) Terrorist target.

[Argentum]

Most of you guys that Israel=shit. You don't know what you're talking about. You guys think that Israel kills innocent civilians, but I guess you don't know that Hezbollah REALLY kills innocent people. You didn't know that just today 8 Israeli civilians were killed by Katyusha missles fired by Hezbollah. Did you know that Hezbollah is launching thier missles from a car which they park in populated areas so if Israel bombs it, citizens will die? And I know most of you think that Israel started the war... this is far from being the truth. Israel HAS to defend herself. Israel is the only country in the world that cares so much after its soldiers.
What can Israel do after the Kidnapping of 3 of her soldiers?

I hope you think better of Israel after reading this post...

[Rioan]

Hardly anyone in this topic is talking about the same thing.

I'd like to get back to the original statement, though.
I agree, America needs to find another way to get weapons to Israel.

(I'd also like to point out that this thread isn't about the war, about how bad either side is, about anything other than America's using other airports of other nations to transport weapons. GET BACK TO THE POINT.)

[packow]

As an Ally, we have not only the right but the responsibility to help Israel against Hezbollah. Thousands of Katusha rockets coming into Israel every day from Lebanon is a good enough reason to attack.

[MortifiedPenguins]

You do realize that we have Naval and Military bases in the UK.

We would just use them.

Besides, most of the weapons sent to Isreal are from the private industry.

[Rioan]

At 8/3/06 12:34 PM, PacoW wrote: As an Ally, we have not only the right but the responsibility to help Israel against Hezbollah. Thousands of Katusha rockets coming into Israel every day from Lebanon is a good enough reason to attack.

You obviously must have missed my post, especially at the bottom of it, where it says "back to the point," because I know you wouldn't read it and post off topic just to spite me. While I agree with you, that's not the topic of this thread.

So you should be posting about the transport of weapons from America, to Israel, using airports in the UK.

[Edvin]

At 8/3/06 12:34 PM, PacoW wrote: As an Ally, we have not only the right but the responsibility to help Israel against Hezbollah. Thousands of Katusha rockets coming into Israel every day from Lebanon is a good enough reason to attack.

You've been helping them since the creation of Israel. Providing weapons, nukes, tanks, planes.. Where do you think all of that came from? If the US wasn't behind Israel's back all the time, I doubt jews would still be there.