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Lidov, so basically, you wanna exterminate Hezbollah?

At 8/4/06 08:10 AM, -Puzz- wrote: Lidov, so basically, you wanna exterminate Hezbollah?

Of course I want to exterminate Hezbollah.

At 8/4/06 08:13 AM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 08:10 AM, -Puzz- wrote: Lidov, so basically, you wanna exterminate Hezbollah?

Of course I want to exterminate Hezbollah.

And 'free' Lebanon?

At 8/4/06 08:16 AM, -Puzz- wrote: And 'free' Lebanon?

And expell the Israeli civillians from the rockets which are fired towards them every day. I don't care much about Lebanon's freedom right now.

At 8/4/06 01:29 AM, IronSea17 wrote:

At 8/3/06 11:21 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote:

When the terrorist group is in the cities, and Israel makes great effort to get civilians out?

Whether or not it is the best strategy, it is justified.

What was this great effort? I'm sorry, I just feel a strong hatred for those who knowingly will kill citizens, regardless of what for.

Sending out fliers to civilians before planned bombings, and bombing buildings at times when people were likely not to be in them (if possible).

Also, is the possibility of killing civilians knowingly killing civilians? I think they are different things.

Do you disagree with Israel’s right to military action? If you don’t, don’t you think Israel is doing a good job under the circumstances?

If you do disagree, that is a different argument. Even if you disagree because of the fact that there is no perfect way to exercise military action, you must admit Israel is doing a good job of reducing casualties having taken the military action route.

Incidentally, the reports on the Quana massacre initially exaggerated the body count, independent investigations now find.

At 8/4/06 02:42 AM, snipermonk wrote: beccause this has started it will not finish uuntil one side has won and thats the lot of it

It must finish without winning, because neither side is able to fully realize their goals, only some. But if there is some guarantee of peace between the two sides once a cease-fire is reached, it will be a victory.

@ Puzz wanting terrorist negotiations:

France is not surrounded by terrorists. If Israel negotiates with terrorists, it will only encourage more terrorism and kidnappings.

At 8/4/06 07:46 AM, Lidov wrote: Lebanon doesn't need to be very strong in order to stop the shipping of rockets and Katyusha launchers from Syria and Iran, it just had to put more attention.

Source that because I can source against it. And that goes for all your claims concerning Lebanons internal politics.\

Also, it is not like all of the civillians who has died are innocent, a lot of them had rockets in their houses, so it is not a total surprise for them.

Source that.

By attacking Lebanon we are creating a strong criticsizm towards the Hezbollah, a criticsizm that has never been before.

NO YOU ARENT. Lidov, you are becoming so delusional. So. The Arab world is now strongly behind Hezbollah. Siniora is behind Hezbollah. Shit, even most of the world is disgusted with Israels actions. Most importantly, the Lebanese are STRONGLY in favor of Hezbollah now. Show me anything you have read to make you beleive otherwise.

Believe me, if we had a diplomatic way to solve this thing, we would have

Please. Israel didnt even waste a day to attack Lebanon because of Hezbollas actions. Diplomacy was NEVER attempted.

, but releasing their prisoners again is out of the question. If we released their prisoners, they would just kidnap more and more soldiers, we can't let that happen, we must stop the Hezbollah once and for all.

The two kidnapped soldiers are still alive according to the Hezbollah and the IDF, which also claims that over 350 terrorists has died since the beginning of the war. But the thing is that even if we are risking a lot of innocent Lebanese civillians, I find it very resonable if it is made in order to protect our own people. If we hadn't destroyed all of the rockets and Katyusha launchers, there were a lot more casualties on our side. And I am sorry, but I would rather 20 dead Lebanese than one dead israeli, innocent or not.

The effect on the families and friends of the deads is unpredictable, I have heard of a lot of Lebanese who want to kick the Hezbollah out and who don't blame Israel.

Source that.

There are even rumors that the prime minister of Lebanon has told us not to stop the operation now, but I don't know if it is true.

No? He HAS PUBLICLY supported Hezbollah and PUBLICLY, SINCE DAY ONE called for a ceasefire. Honestly, I understand you are Israeli but this is just a crapload of delusion. Nothing you have said is sourced and nothing I have read even suggests anything you are putting forward. Honestly, is there anything in your post that is anything other than unsourced street talk and conjecture?

The Lebanese government has shown no interest in doing such a thing, we expected them to whine to USA or France at the first week, and ask them to help them removing the Hezbollah.

Their priority is to their PEOPLE first and foremost, not to YOU, ISRAEL, in rooting out Hezbollah. That comes AFTER peace, not while ISRAEL is still bombing their people.

If the Lebanses government wanted to get Hezbollah out of their territory, they would have come to us.

YOU GAVE THEM NO TIME AND NEVER EXTENDED ANY DIPLOMATIC HAND.

Believe me, if the UN would have been a bit more than a few puppets sitiing on their fancy chairs and speaking nicely, south of Lebanon would have already been Hezbollah-less.

THE OBSERVERS ON THE BORDER CANT CARRY WEAPONS. The fuck you want them to do?

At 8/4/06 07:03 AM, Lidov wrote: it is the responsibility of Lebanon not to allow them gain any more strength.

NO ONE is arguing Lebanon SHOULD have controlled Hezbollah or that Israel didnt have provocation. But this isnt a perfect world and you keep pushing your utopian vision into the politics here. You keep ignoring what the Lebanese have said about their situation with Hezbollah. And you keep setting up this argument no ons is against.

What we are arguing is just because you may have provocation, there is a better solution and a more civilized solution expected of a First World nation. What Israel is doing has ALREADY proven to have failed in the two weeks it has been going on and has royally pissed off the Arab world against you. And the USA has to take this flack also because we support you so closely.

You think possibly risking decades of progress with the Arab world is worth two fucking soldiers?

At 8/4/06 06:15 AM, Lidov wrote: And I am sure you have a better solution, as a military expert who knows the Hezbollah and the way they act for years. Besides, it is Lebanon's fault that it haven't stopped the Hezbollah while it was small, or stopped it from gaining strength later on.

I dont think you understand how resistant to change Armys are. Thye DO NOT like change, they DO NOT like shifting budgets, they DO NOT like a different command and control structure that may take some power out of thier hands.

And I hardly think its much of a valid point to say "Hey our Generals know whats up" when all the Israeli Generals have ever managed to do is win a conventional wars (quite convinvingly, I will give) then screw up the insurgencies up royally.

This is geared towards Puzz and others suggesting 'negotiating'.

By negotiating with terrorists, you are giving them recognition within the International System. That means you would be elevating terrorists to the nation-state level, which they are not and it would be appaling to even consider the notion.

As well, you can only 'negotiate' with a rational opponent. A terrorist is not rational, moral, or ethical. They use violence, which causes terror, to supress a population of people from their basic civil liberties.

At 8/4/06 08:21 AM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 08:16 AM, -Puzz- wrote: And 'free' Lebanon?

And expell the Israeli civillians from the rockets which are fired towards them every day. I don't care much about Lebanon's freedom right now.

Wow that's self-centered. The Lebanese are people too.

And for the last time, Lebanon basically didn't even have a government when Hezbollah was coming into power. They were in a Civil War! Civil wars are the most chaotic times a country will ever face, with confusion and constant fear. There's no way they could have stopped Hezbollah while it was developing.

Israel is being no better than Hezbollah at this point. Killing innocents is all they seem to be doing. And what did Hezbollah do? Kill innocents. Israel is responding to attacks. Hezbollah is responding to Israel's attacks on the Palestinians and acting out of spite towards their past occupation of Lebanon.

And in response to your accusations of Lebanon for not stopping the shipments of weapons from Iran and Syria, let's remember that these two countries would be very, very bad to anger. Syria and Lebanon have had a very bad history, and Iran has nukes and some insane leadership. Besides, it would be incredibly difficult to stop these shipments.

Lidov I know you think Israel is doing the right thing, but there are way too many innocents being killed there. Israel has another option that would help build support around the world for Israel here instead of going on such overkill that more civillians are being killed than the enemies. Israel has some very good special forces. Find the military targets that are pure military targets, bomb the living hell out of them. Find the military/civillian targets, send in the special forces. Something that isn't indiscriminant on what it kills, something that can decide that person is a civillian, lets detain them instead of killing them, hey he's got a gun, kill him.

I noticed that they did that with a hospital, it surprised me and I hope that they do it more often. But until Israel is actually doing something to stop indiscriminantly killing everyone in a civillian area then they are no better than the terrorists themselves.

As far as the UN people being killed, reports said it was a precision bomb that destroyed the bunker. That in itself decided that Israel doesn't care about who they kill even more than before, and the Israelie government should be ashamed of itself. And if Israel does keep killing indiscriminantly and piss off the world enough then Congress will have no choice but to start cutting off aid to Israel, especially in an election year in the States. And I would honestly love to see how long Israel would last in a real conflict without US aid. Because until Israel stops acting like a terrorist then they don't deserve aid from the US.

At 8/4/06 05:29 PM, ReiperX wrote: Lidov I know you think Israel is doing the right thing, but there are way too many innocents being killed there. Israel has another option that would help build support around the world for Israel here instead of going on such overkill that more civillians are being killed than the enemies. Israel has some very good special forces. Find the military targets that are pure military targets, bomb the living hell out of them. Find the military/civillian targets, send in the special forces. Something that isn't indiscriminant on what it kills, something that can decide that person is a civillian, lets detain them instead of killing them, hey he's got a gun, kill him.

The more of them (terrorists) dead, the less I have to worry about at night, at any cost. That's my personal opinion.

http://www.canada.co..e9-b26e-a3c06a460e73

nuff said.

At 8/4/06 05:29 PM, ReiperX wrote: Lidov I know you think Israel is doing the right thing, but there are way too many innocents being killed there.

And what can we do to stop it? have Israel back down and force even more Israeli's to die from rocket-fire? I think that is not logical. as spock-like as I sound, it's the truth.

At 8/4/06 05:50 PM, IgnorantSentient wrote: http://www.canada.co..e9-b26e-a3c06a460e73

Kool. It's in the opinion section. Meaning this journalist is arguing for this point, based on what he believes to be true.

Issues & Ideas.

At 8/4/06 05:52 PM, w00t0ftheday wrote:

At 8/4/06 05:29 PM, ReiperX wrote:

And what can we do to stop it? have Israel back down and force even more Israeli's to die from rocket-fire? I think that is not logical. as spock-like as I sound, it's the truth.

But in this process, your killing hundreds of innocents.

What, is an Isreali life more valuable then a Lebanese.

At 8/4/06 12:51 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: Source that because I can source against it. And that goes for all your claims concerning Lebanons internal politics.\

I don't think I need to source that, the fact is that there are a lot of rockets who were made in Syria and Iran that same to Lebanon. The Lebanese shouldn't have let the rockets pass the border.

Source that.

Also no need, and I don't think I can. Anyway, it is logical that the Hezbollah will fire rockets from the neighbourhoods who know them, from the places which support them, or else it would have been a real pain in the ass launching from there. So if they are supporters, it probably means that they help the Hezbollah in this way or another.

NO YOU ARENT. Lidov, you are becoming so delusional. So. The Arab world is now strongly behind Hezbollah. Siniora is behind Hezbollah. Shit, even most of the world is disgusted with Israels actions. Most importantly, the Lebanese are STRONGLY in favor of Hezbollah now. Show me anything you have read to make you beleive otherwise.

I can send you by e-mail this interview which was shown in Al-Gazira (sp?) which shows a Muslim woman (which considers itself none religious) which says that this is a battle between ignorance and progress. I have seen in the TV not long ago a person in the Lebanese TV interviewing once of the Hezbollah members. He has asked him something like this "Do you think that the prisoners you have hoped to set free by kidnapping the soldiers would have agreed to this if they knew that the price of their freedom was the destruction of Lebanon?". The same things have also appeared in the Lebanese radio, newspapers (in pictures a picture in a British Arab paper against the Hezbollah. The hand symbolizes the Hezbollah, and the rest the hands of the people of Lebanon.).
I am not delusional, believe me, I really do feel sorry that these Lebanese people die, but I really don't see any other way.

Please. Israel didnt even waste a day to attack Lebanon because of Hezbollas actions. Diplomacy was NEVER attempted.

I never said that diplomacy was tried, as I said before, talking to the Hezbollah will end up with us releasing 20 prisoners and another kidnapping a few months after.

Source that.

Source.

No? He HAS PUBLICLY supported Hezbollah and PUBLICLY, SINCE DAY ONE called for a ceasefire. Honestly, I understand you are Israeli but this is just a crapload of delusion. Nothing you have said is sourced and nothing I have read even suggests anything you are putting forward. Honestly, is there anything in your post that is anything other than unsourced street talk and conjecture?

If you want I can link you to a Hebrew article, but I don't see how it will help you. I have also seen it in the news, but these were made unoficially, so I don't really know how much truth there is in it. Anyway, of course he will be against Israel on public, but even he wants the Hezbollah out of his country, and he believes that this is the way.
I don't see why I need to source things, I am not lying and I don't read articles in English, nor can I find articles in that language to support my points. I see it as a total waste of time.

Their priority is to their PEOPLE first and foremost, not to YOU, ISRAEL, in rooting out Hezbollah. That comes AFTER peace, not while ISRAEL is still bombing their people.

So we should have stopped bombing them, suffer a lot of rockets everyday, expect the Lebanese governemtn to solve the problem and wait for weeks until the stupid UN puts a stupid force in south Lebanon? This is simply dumb, why do that when you can stop the Hezbollah?

YOU GAVE THEM NO TIME AND NEVER EXTENDED ANY DIPLOMATIC HAND.

Yes, because when some of your buildings are bombed you can't at all try to talk to Israel.

THE OBSERVERS ON THE BORDER CANT CARRY WEAPONS. The fuck you want them to do?

I meant that an international force in south Lebanon would have already existed if the UN would worth anything.

NO ONE is arguing Lebanon SHOULD have controlled Hezbollah or that Israel didnt have provocation. But this isnt a perfect world and you keep pushing your utopian vision into the politics here. You keep ignoring what the Lebanese have said about their situation with He zbollah. And you keep setting up this argument no ons is against.

Ok, so you agree that Lebanon should have stopped the Hezbollah from gaining strength?

What we are arguing is just because you may have provocation, there is a better solution and a more civilized solution expected of a First World nation. What Israel is doing has ALREADY proven to have failed in the two weeks it has been going on and has royally pissed off the Arab world against you. And the USA has to take this flack also because we support you so closely.

There is a better solution? Look, the Hezbollah has terrorized Israel for a long time, and every time it has done something we just bombed a place from the air and free a lot of prisoners. A few weeks after that, they did the same thing, and we did the same thing. This is not only about the soldiers and the rockets, this is about stopping them once and for all.

You think possibly risking decades of progress with the Arab world is worth two fucking soldiers?

This won't stop any progress which was made in the Arab world, this is actually the first time three Arab countries have spoked in the favour of Israel. besides, it is not only the soldiers.

I dont think you understand how resistant to change Armys are. Thye DO NOT like change, they DO NOT like shifting budgets, they DO NOT like a different command and control structure that may take some power out of thier hands.

Point?

And I hardly think its much of a valid point to say "Hey our Generals know whats up" when all the Israeli Generals have ever managed to do is win a conventional wars (quite convinvingly, I will give) then screw up the insurgencies up royally.

Our Generals know how to fight in Lebanon, as it is not the first time we are there. Our generals know how to fight against terror groups, as there are so many terror groups we are fighting against and have fought against. Our generals know the Hezbollah for a long time now and they know the way they act.

At 8/4/06 03:58 PM, LavaTemplar wrote: Wow that's self-centered. The Lebanese are people too.

Let me explain something, a government should protect it's civillians, even if it means that they should put other civillians in danger. Do you suggest doing nothing because innocent Lebanese might die at the proccess of protecting ourselves?

At 8/4/06 07:22 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 03:58 PM, LavaTemplar wrote:

Let me explain something, a government should protect it's civillians, even if it means that they should put other civillians in danger. Do you suggest doing nothing because innocent Lebanese might die at the proccess of protecting ourselves?

But isn't that now justification for the missles being shot into Isreal.

At 8/4/06 07:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: But isn't that now justification for the missles being shot into Isreal.

No, we are targeting the launchers who are firing the rockets towards us, they are targeting civillians.

At 8/4/06 07:31 PM, Lidov wrote: No, we are targeting the launchers who are firing the rockets towards us, they are targeting civillians.

They seem to be doing a poor job of it, then, since more military forces has died than civilians.

NO YOU ARENT. Lidov, you are becoming so delusional. So. The Arab world is now strongly behind Hezbollah. Siniora is behind Hezbollah. Shit, even most of the world is disgusted with Israels actions. Most importantly, the Lebanese are STRONGLY in favor of Hezbollah now. Show me anything you have read to make you beleive otherwise.

okay, let me set something straight here. Israel has absolutly no intention in attacking civilians, youre acting like they do. what do you think israel will get out of attacking civilians? don't be stuiped like that. yes lebanese are in favor of hezzbolla what are you trying to say?

Believe me, if we had a diplomatic way to solve this thing, we would have

Please. Israel didnt even waste a day to attack Lebanon because of Hezbollas actions. Diplomacy was NEVER attempted.

Israel is attacking hezbolla not lebanon. Why would they? they have declared war on Hezbolla not lebanon. you're making yourself look stuiped saying all those dumb remarks.

, but releasing their prisoners again is out of the question. If we released their prisoners, they would just kidnap more and more soldiers, we can't let that happen, we must stop the Hezbollah once and for all.

The two kidnapped soldiers are still alive according to the Hezbollah and the IDF, which also claims that over 350 terrorists has died since the beginning of the war. But the thing is that even if we are risking a lot of innocent Lebanese civillians, I find it very resonable if it is made in order to protect our own people. If we hadn't destroyed all of the rockets and Katyusha launchers, there were a lot more casualties on our side. And I am sorry, but I would rather 20 dead Lebanese than one dead israeli, innocent or not.

The effect on the families and friends of the deads is unpredictable, I have heard of a lot of Lebanese who want to kick the Hezbollah out and who don't blame Israel.

they hate Israel nontheless.

Source that.

There are even rumors that the prime minister of Lebanon has told us not to stop the operation now, but I don't know if it is true.

No? He HAS PUBLICLY supported Hezbollah and PUBLICLY, SINCE DAY ONE called for a ceasefire. Honestly, I understand you are Israeli but this is just a crapload of delusion. Nothing you have said is sourced and nothing I have read even suggests anything you are putting forward. Honestly, is there anything in your post that is anything other than unsourced street talk and conjecture?

so are you trying to say that hezbolla are freedom fighters and not terrorists? do you support them?

look. you need a reality check. the ONLY reason that the lebanese PM is supporting hezzbolla is because he knows that thats what the public opinion supports. also, do you remember what happend to the last lebanese PM the one that was critical of hezbolla?
yeah, they killed him

The Lebanese government has shown no interest in doing such a thing, we expected them to whine to USA or France at the first week, and ask them to help them removing the Hezbollah.

Their priority is to their PEOPLE first and foremost, not to YOU, ISRAEL, in rooting out Hezbollah. That comes AFTER peace, not while ISRAEL is still bombing their people.

If you consider hezbolla their people, then you are insulting the lebanese

look, my point is that you can't win in an argument against Israel. you might win it if you live in Iran but otherwise, you will allways lose.

BTW are you muslim?

At 8/4/06 07:31 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: But isn't that now justification for the missles being shot into Isreal.

No, we are targeting the launchers who are firing the rockets towards us, they are targeting civillians.

A government should protect it's citizens, even if that means targeting other citizens.

Isn't that what you said.

At 8/4/06 07:34 PM, RedScorpion wrote: They seem to be doing a poor job of it, then, since more military forces has died than civilians.

This is in the ground battles, the rockets they are launching are to harm civillians.

At 8/4/06 07:34 PM, RedScorpion wrote: They seem to be doing a poor job of it, then, since more military forces has died than civilians.

Currently yes, but there is a much greater number of injured Israeli civilians than soldiers.

At 8/4/06 07:37 PM, Lidov wrote: This is in the ground battles, the rockets they are launching are to harm civillians.

Astonding. The advanced technology and power of the Katyusha rocket has thus far caused massive civilian deaths, and have crippled the entire infrastructure of Israel. Millions are in panic and in chaos, and are helpless against the ensuing bombings.

It's a good thing that isn't happening with Israel's attacks.

At 8/4/06 07:36 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:31 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: But isn't that now justification for the missles being shot into Isreal.

No, we are targeting the launchers who are firing the rockets towards us, they are targeting civillians.

A government should protect it's citizens, even if that means targeting other citizens.

Isn't that what you said.

What he said was Israel is attacking the terrorists that are firing rockets at civilians. dont be a dumbass.

At 8/4/06 07:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:22 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 03:58 PM, LavaTemplar wrote:

Let me explain something, a government should protect it's civillians, even if it means that they should put other civillians in danger. Do you suggest doing nothing because innocent Lebanese might die at the proccess of protecting ourselves?

But isn't that now justification for the missles being shot into Isreal.

What don't you guys get?
Israel does'nt have any interest in attacking civilians. the only reason that civilians are being killed is that Hezbolla uses the lebanese as human shields. they fire a rocket and then they run to the nearest public area because they know that if Israel fires at them they can use the civilian casuallties to blame Israel.

terrorists don't care if they die in the process they believe that they go to heaven for killing jews.
they SERIOUSLY think that they are doing god's work by killing jews.
what's hezbolla?
Hez Bo Alla
which means party of god. religous aren't they?

At 8/4/06 07:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:22 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 03:58 PM, LavaTemplar wrote:

Let me explain something, a government should protect it's civillians, even if it means that they should put other civillians in danger. Do you suggest doing nothing because innocent Lebanese might die at the proccess of protecting ourselves?

But isn't that now justification for the missles being shot into Isreal.

No, because those missiles were not intended to save lives, but to destroy them.

At 8/4/06 07:36 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:31 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: But isn't that now justification for the missles being shot into Isreal.

No, we are targeting the launchers who are firing the rockets towards us, they are targeting civillians.

A government should protect it's citizens, even if that means targeting other citizens.

Isn't that what you said.

Hezbollah is not the government, and it endangers, not protects, the Lebanese by shooting missiles.

At 7/30/06 11:20 AM, mofomojo wrote: So, for the past 18 days, chaos has ensued along the Israeli Lebanese border, 1/3 of Israeli casualties have been civilians (18 out of 51 dead) and a majority of lebanese casualties have been civilians (425 out of nearly 500 dead). Outrageous remarks have been made on both sides of the issue. (http://news.bbc.co.u..dle_east/5223940.st
m)

One the Israeli side, we have generals vowing to flatten every town and city and say that all civilians remaining in Southern Lebanon are "Terrorists", of course, I think what the Lebanese government forgets is that they're frequently bombing ou highways, railways and airports, making the ease of evacuation terribly difficult for civilians. I see this as none less than a discrete massacre on the part of the Israeli government. And Israeli government officials determined to turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years and reverse the development of its economy for the return of soldiers. (http://www.cnn.com/2..2/mideast/index.htm
l and http://news.bbc.co.u..dle_east/5219360.stm

Your interpretation is too narrowed to the fault of Israel in my opinion. It assumes that Israel made no efforts to solve this situation dipolmatically when Israel has been dealing with Hezbollah/Terrorist acts like this for many, many years. Israel has delt with these people for years.

I'm telling anyone reading this: if you have to understand one thing about this conflict it's that we don't understand like Israel does what it's like cooperating with groups like Hezbollah. We see Israel's reaction and think wow, those guys really snapped for no reason. When in fact Israel has been doing hostage-trades, covert-ops rescue missions, and recieving rocket attacks all because of this breed of terrorism for over thirty years!

The fault lies with the broad UN stance on their relation to Israel. Israel knew they weren't going to get any international help getting their soldiers back or fixing problems with terrorist organizations; so they acted as a sovereign nation and took action on their own.

Entirely excusable? No
Understandable? Very.

At 8/4/06 08:04 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:22 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 03:58 PM, LavaTemplar wrote:

No, because those missiles were not intended to save lives, but to destroy them.

And your missles aren't.

Hey wait 500+ Lebanese have died, it's clearly not your missles, they save lives.

Hezbollah is not the government, and it endangers, not protects, the Lebanese by shooting missiles.

Hezbollah has seats in the Parliment.

More missles have been fired at Isreal since they attacked Lebanon, how do we know that some of these are defense missles.

As in you attack us, we attack you.

At 8/4/06 08:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 8/4/06 08:04 PM, Dragon_Smaug wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:29 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 8/4/06 07:22 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/4/06 03:58 PM, LavaTemplar wrote:

No, because those missiles were not intended to save lives, but to destroy them.

And your missles aren't.

Hey wait 500+ Lebanese have died, it's clearly not your missles, they save lives.

what does saving lives have to do with anything?

Hezbollah is not the government, and it endangers, not protects, the Lebanese by shooting missiles.

Hezbollah has seats in the Parliment.

It's not the government though
that's like saying that Americas government is democratic because they have seats in the government

More missles have been fired at Isreal since they attacked Lebanon, how do we know that some of these are defense missles.

\you don't defend with killing civilians smartass

As in you attack us, we attack you.

in "we" you mean your'e part of hezbolla?

At 8/4/06 07:17 PM, Lidov wrote: I don't think I need to source that, the fact is that there are a lot of rockets who were made in Syria and Iran that same to Lebanon. The Lebanese shouldn't have let the rockets pass the border.

Given the country's sectarian divisions, politics often have to work by consensus. Because Hezbollah is the most powerful representative of Shiites, Lebanon's government could not think of alienating such a crucial constituency. Since the fighting began, officials have gone to great lengths to guarantee at least a public show of unity. And even critics such as Jumblatt say the prospect of the group's disarmament -- a requirement under U.N. Security Council Resolution 1559 -- is almost impossible.

"We don't have the means to disarm Hezbollah, and we don't want to have a civil war here," he said.
Now who am I going to trust? Your unsourced opinion? Or the man described as Lebanons "political weathervane?"

Anyway, it is logical that the Hezbollah will fire rockets from the neighbourhoods who know them, from the places which support them, or else it would have been a real pain in the ass launching from there.

You claimed "a lot" of the civilians that have died had rockets in their house. That would lead me to believe you have anything other than your opinion to back that up. You dont so dont claim it.

I can send you by e-mail this interview which was shown in Al-Gazira (sp?) which shows a Muslim woman (which considers itself none religious) which says that this is a battle between ignorance and progress.

About 70 percent of Lebanese approve of Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers in the July 12 raid that sparked Israel's offensive, according to a poll of 800 people published July 26 by the Beirut Center for Research and Information.
Anecdotal evidence is nice and all, but you are delusional. Lebanon is solidly against Israel according to this poll done 14 days after the start of the offensive.

I never said that diplomacy was tried, as I said before, talking to the Hezbollah will end up with us releasing 20 prisoners and another kidnapping a few months after.

Strawman. I never said Israel should compromise with Hezbollah. They should try diplomacy with Lebanon, you know, the place Israel is bombing the shit out of that had no part in Hezbollahs actios.

Source.

Quite funny. Do you admit what you said was bullshit?

If you want I can link you to a Hebrew article, but I don't see how it will help you.

"Israel won't obtain a thing through the war," he added. "Does it believe that through war it will obtain goals? They won't obtain a thing, and the opposite is the truth. The entire Lebanese nation is united against the Israeli aggression," Siniora said.

The Lebanese prime minister added that he esteems those who fell in "the defense of Lebanon,"' and said that his government is doing everything to strengthen its stance. He even expressed his "full admiration for Nasrallah and all those who sacrifice their lives for Lebanon."
Go ahead and link your "source."

I don't see why I need to source things

I ask you to source things because I know they are lies. You are lying or making things up to prove your points.

This is simply dumb, why do that when you can stop the Hezbollah?

"We have to acknowledge that they have defeated the Israelis. It's not a question of gaining one more village or losing one more village. They have defeated the Israelis," he said. "But the question now is to whom Nasrallah will offer this victory."
Because you are stopping nothing.

Yes, because when some of your buildings are bombed you can't at all try to talk to Israel.

Excuse me? You want them to make concessions to Israel when Israel wont even stop bombing their country to let the talks proceed?

I meant that an international force in south Lebanon would have already existed if the UN would worth anything.

You mean the same UN that Israel loves undercutting? The same UN who Israel loves ignoring? The same UN that America vetoed a resolution condemning Israeli and Palestinian agression in Gaza? You cant have your cake and eat it.

Ok, so you agree that Lebanon should have stopped the Hezbollah from gaining strength?

In 1982? During the 80's when they still had a Civil War raging? During Syrian and Israeli occupation of their country? When Syria controlled their government because of the instability after the Israeli incursion and subsequent Civil War funded and supported by foreign powers? When they still were to poor and weak to conqueor a still powerful Hezbollah with no provocation in the past year or two? When exactly was your suggested time to reign in Hezbollah?