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At 2/25/03 11:22 AM, DenkSmoker wrote:

At 2/25/03 10:17 AM, Slizor wrote:
Currently the way meat, especially chicken and especially in the USA, is produced is very bad for you. It's full of crap (literally) and diseases. And I personally think that people are getting taller due to the hormones put into meat.

2 things. 1.Because of hormones being given to cows to produce milk faster, girls are getting their boobs much earlier these days. 2. I have family that owns chicken farms down in Arkansas. Due to their knowledge of how they're raised and kept, they refuse to eat chicken. That says alot.

At 2/26/03 12:10 AM, TheEvilOne wrote: You may have a point. They have some biological similarities. However, I think that it's perfectly natural to eat meat. If it's okay for animals to eat other animals, then why is it wrong for humans to eat animals?

Well lets start with people and properties.. Everyone is constantly out and about looking to collect things.. they want things for free.. they want big houses with big rooms and the most stuff... If you really get a chance to evaluate your life.. you will notice that its not about what you get.. but what you can get rid of... Its like that point in the fight club movie about do you own things or do things own you? I am a modern minimalist and vegan.. yes I own stuff like a compooter and a glass table and a sofabed and cloths and a few other things.. but not much at all..

NOW.. to connect this with meat... people are given a lot of things at birth.. they are given belongings and traditions and they are shown a way of life... they hold on to that way of life for the most part and see no wrong in traditional passage...

But thats where I think they are wrong.. I would have to suggest that our goal as humans are to progress and not carry what didnt work for centuries. If you honestly think about the future is it hard to see it with a vegetarian society? Not to me because I am about learing for myself and progressing...

Oh and for the people trashing PETA... I have seen PETA speakers at events before and I hope that you all get a chance to hear them speak.. they make perfect sense but they dont get recognition because americans are lazy for the most part about breaking thier traditions as I said before... PETA is working to find solutions to accomodate everyone in the future.. showing compasion for life and realistic understanding...

THANKS IF YOU READ THIS WHOLE POST AND I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND IT

In reply to MattyMetro-

I read your whole post, and if you've ever read any of my particularly opinionated ones, you know I'm a big fan of saying a lot.

While I may not agree with the concept of veganism, I
respect your intelligence in posting.

Why don't we inject our hormones with hormones? It'd make the meat even better and give that extra kick when you threw it at the barefoot hippies protesting outside McDonalds.

As an animal 'welfarist' I'm normally ashamed of my far-left cousins who like to pull stunts in the name of animal rights.
What's the difference? Well, an 'activist' lets all of the minks on the fur farm free to die horrible deathes in the wild from lack of survival skills. A 'welfarist' writes polite letters to fashion designers and models requesting that they not promote the fur industry.
As for eating meat. Well, I do but I would perfer if my cattle were humanly slaughtered.

At 2/24/03 10:29 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Hah! This reminds me of something I read not too long ago:

http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html

I got a kick out of it and it gave me some ammunition against the crazy people who freak out whenever I eat a hamburger.

I happen to be a vegetarian and I don't care if I see people eating meat! Ofcourse I'd like them not to, but I don't HATE them!

Personally, I don't see the point to this topic really. There is no changing the fact that there will always be meat eaters and those that do just veggies...right? People have been eating meet since day one - why stop now, and, really who has the right to deny us that right ( or, any other for that matter), further more who would even try...lol I'd like to see someone take my burger n fries...yah!

It's just a good old fasioned debate. There's no point to anything we do.

At 2/26/03 10:49 AM, The_Last_Kumiho wrote: As an animal 'welfarist' I'm normally ashamed of my far-left cousins who like to pull stunts in the name of animal rights.
What's the difference? Well, an 'activist' lets all of the minks on the fur farm free to die horrible deathes in the wild from lack of survival skills. A 'welfarist' writes polite letters to fashion designers and models requesting that they not promote the fur industry.
As for eating meat. Well, I do but I would perfer if my cattle were humanly slaughtered.

You raise a good point. Too many people interested in the welfare of animals are grouped with a small number of extremists who behave in a seemingly irrational manner... it's like this with almost any movement. I personally see nothing wrong with eating meat, but I hate to see senseless abuse of animals.

Extremists in any line of work are very bad. Like the extremist toy company in the Phillipines that made a toy called "Mail Bomber". Squeeze the fake letter and give it to a friend, and it bursts to pieces in his hands. "Become a terrorist." The box says.

At 2/26/03 02:02 AM, mattymetro wrote:
Oh and for the people trashing PETA... I have seen PETA speakers at events before and I hope that you all get a chance to hear them speak.. they make perfect sense but they dont get recognition because americans are lazy for the most part about breaking thier traditions as I said before... PETA is working to find solutions to accomodate everyone in the future.. showing compasion for life and realistic understanding...

THANKS IF YOU READ THIS WHOLE POST AND I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND IT

I don't hate PETA for being pro-animal, I hate them for being picky while being pro-animal.

"snakeheads? i don't like your name, you go on the 'die' list"

"We support you and we hate KFC, despite the fact that you have only one veggie food on the whole list and that your burgers are twice the size as McDonalds."

"We support you and we hate KFC, despite the fact that you have only one veggie food on the whole list and that your burgers are twice the size as McDonalds."

The world is an odd, odd place for a carnivore.

Yeah...

Ah, being a Lion would be bliss, no more dammed PETA people protesting against your eating habits, being able to eat anyone who annoys you, *drool*

Ok, I'm awake

At 2/28/03 06:05 AM, UNpossible wrote: Yeah...

Ah, being a Lion would be bliss, no more dammed PETA people protesting against your eating habits, being able to eat anyone who annoys you, *drool*

Ok, I'm awake

That would mean there would be no more Nemesisz. Though he'd probably filibuster a lion into a deep sleep, then drag him home and put him up on the wall.

More news...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne...re_us/peta_holocaust_display_3

Apparently, according to PETA, people who eat meat are now Nazis.

I can understand that they were trying for shock value, but I believe this is in incredibly bad taste. Rather than elevate the image of animals, it seems to be comparing holocost victims to poultry.

At 3/1/03 10:45 PM, Labanzab wrote: I can understand that they were trying for shock value, but I believe this is in incredibly bad taste. Rather than elevate the image of animals, it seems to be comparing holocost victims to poultry.

Well, they're the Nazis for persecuting meat eaters for enjoying a burger! I'm fine with most vegetarians, but not these crazy ones! Down with the Spinach Nazis!

Spinach Nazis? No, no, no. Tofu burger Nazis.

They'd prefer to be called "The-all-so-just-people-who-are-not-murderers-and-we-are-better-than-you". They do not have a terribly great chance at being called that, and PETA sucks. Thank you and go to bed.

I'm a member of PETA = People for the Eating and Tasting of Animals

At 3/2/03 02:53 AM, Spike_J_Wolfwood wrote: I'm a member of PETA = People for the Eating and Tasting of Animals

I'm a member of

Mankind for
Ethical
Animal
Treatment

We're like the more sane version of PETA

At 2/25/03 10:07 PM, mattymetro wrote: I am vegan and all I have to say is compare your nervous system to that of an animal and ask yourself honestly (not what you were raised on) is this the right choice?

Let's see...
From a biology major's point of view, there is virtually nothing different between our brain and the brain of a cow apart from bulk and basic geometric configuration.

If we turn to the animal kingdom, we will find some facenating facts. Predatory species, by and large, posess significantly larger brains then their prey counterparts.

I'll provide you with an example. Compair the brain of a wolf to that of an antelope. The wolf's brain is nearly twice the size of the antelope's brain, with noticeably greater growth in the visual cortex, and the areas of the brain devoted to patern recognition.

Even ancient and relatively simple straightforeward killing machines, like sharks, posess large and complex brains (very little is known about the shark brain, let us not dwell on it further)

There are a few examples of predators having smaller brains then their prey counterpart. Voles have smaller brains then deer mice, but a vole only weighs in at a third that of the deer mouse's weight, and as such will only attack a deer mouse if it hasn't eaten in several hours.

The largest brain in the world belongs to the sperm whale, weighing in at 20 pounds, it should be noted that sperm whales are also active predators, as are nearly all mammals of the sea. (yes, even cute baby seals eat fish.)

From these facts, we can draw the conclusion Bigger brain = predator of smaller brain. Cows have a smaller brain then I do, so i will feel no guilt when i eat them.

But srest assured, no sperm whales will ever grace my plate.

Amen to that. Sperm whales are, in the words of my annoying, younger cousin, "dee-e-scuss-ting!" You know it's not a good thing to eat when it excerets urnine out of its skin

At 3/3/03 06:13 AM, UNpossible wrote: Amen to that. Sperm whales are, in the words of my annoying, younger cousin, "dee-e-scuss-ting!" You know it's not a good thing to eat when it excerets urnine out of its skin

Well, I'm forever turned off to whale meat.

At 3/2/03 11:27 PM, Soundbyte2kx wrote: Let's see...
From a biology major's point of view, there is virtually nothing different between our brain and the brain of a cow apart from bulk and basic geometric configuration.

If we turn to the animal kingdom, we will find some facenating facts. Predatory species, by and large, posess significantly larger brains then their prey counterparts.

I'll provide you with an example. Compair the brain of a wolf to that of an antelope. The wolf's brain is nearly twice the size of the antelope's brain, with noticeably greater growth in the visual cortex, and the areas of the brain devoted to patern recognition.

Even ancient and relatively simple straightforeward killing machines, like sharks, posess large and complex brains (very little is known about the shark brain, let us not dwell on it further)

There are a few examples of predators having smaller brains then their prey counterpart. Voles have smaller brains then deer mice, but a vole only weighs in at a third that of the deer mouse's weight, and as such will only attack a deer mouse if it hasn't eaten in several hours.

The largest brain in the world belongs to the sperm whale, weighing in at 20 pounds, it should be noted that sperm whales are also active predators, as are nearly all mammals of the sea. (yes, even cute baby seals eat fish.)

From these facts, we can draw the conclusion Bigger brain = predator of smaller brain. Cows have a smaller brain then I do, so i will feel no guilt when i eat them.

But srest assured, no sperm whales will ever grace my plate.

Ok here's an idea though. Humans may have larger brains than many of the animals mentioned above but I distinctly remember my Bio. Prof. telling us that humans really only use a little more than half of the actual brain mass.
Also, one other interesting point, the brain of the horse and the ox are quite similar in size but out of those two animals, horses have more complex sociological behaviors (their 'language' utilizes nearly all body parts and they are able to form relationships with other species, besides humans) and have a higher degree of intelligence enabling them to remember patterns, past events and experiences.
(It can also be noted that it is illegal to sell horsemeat for human consumption in California and most horsemeat that is processed in the US is shipped overseas to Europe and Asia).
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that brain mass isn't really that much of an issue (to me). It's more in how you use it. I can vouch for horses being able to 'out smart' their human counterparts. Mine managed to unhook my bra with his teeth, a feat most human males cannot master.

At 2/24/03 10:48 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote:

At 2/24/03 10:43 PM, Alakazam wrote:

Weeds? Weeds = greens = good for health.

Oh quit with your logic.

Logic = good.

At 2/26/03 02:02 AM, mattymetro wrote:

I have seen PETA speakers at events before and I hope that you all get a chance to hear them speak.. they make perfect sense :

PETA hardly ever makes sense. PETA is operated by a bunch of fools who are not interested in Animal Welfare; rather, they are interested in pushing their idioctic man hating agenda.

but they dont get recognition :

They shouldn't get recognition.

Sometimes I think PETA's sole purpose is to make a riot at wherever I choose to eat. St. Elmo's Steakhouse in downtown Indianapolis...best steaks in the world.

http://www.fegan.net/quotes.htm

PETA is stupid.

At 2/25/03 01:49 AM, jazz_mazter wrote: Might as well get used to it, unless you want to buy expensive imported foreign meats. If you were given two 'medium rare strip steak,' one from an animal given hormone boosters or any other genetic 'enhancement' and another that was all natural, you wouldn't be able to tell any difference, nor would you feel any different. Same goes with wheat or rice, too. Embrace the future, it's going to save lives.

I agree. Forget what you hear about how this or that is raised and/or slaughtered. A simple fact of life: Humans are the dominant force in today's world. What does that mean? Due to our very nature we will change our environment to suit us.

2000 years ago, it was called selective breeding. It was used to produce animals with characteristics we found suitable. See also: Dog.

Today we use hormone therapy. We use genetic manipulation. We also still force animals who may not like each other to fuck because we want a faster racehorse, a smaller chihuahua, and a beefier cow.

GET OVER IT

I personally don't care what living conditions animals go through to become my hamburger. Really. Unless they deliver some superstrain of Ebola or something nasty like that, I really don't care. Why? Because animals have feelings. They do think. They are capable of caring and hating. But they aren't human. There is this thing... it's called the food chain. And just because our species has the unique ability to choose their position on the food chain doesn't mean we should all go straight to the bottom. I like meat. I LOOOOOOOVE a big, juicy steak. Shark tastes good, too. Fish is nice, especially with a good wine, and bacon, bacon, sweet jesus BACON!!! I mean really... BACON!!! I also love eggs. I once broke open an egg with a half-developed chik inside. it was disgusting. So I ate a hot dog.

Food is food. I think that animals should be treated with respect (no sticking fire-crackers in a cat's ass for me [ although it is tempting....] ). But if the animal in question is my next meal-
Pet, stroke, pet, stroke, 'calm down... it's ok...' CHOP!

Humans are omnivores. We weren't designed to be strictly vegan or strictly carnivorous. So get real, already.

The people who piss me off the most are the ones who drink organic (or soy) milk, and take hormone replacement therapy for their own good. So I hate the hypocrites. And all furry-huggin vegans are hypocrites because it's true- harvest kills animals, too.
-
On a side note, ths cartoon doesn't fit what I said, but I think it should go in with this topic. Long Live Larson.

At 3/4/03 11:08 PM, TheShrike wrote: The people who piss me off the most are the ones who drink organic (or soy) milk

Some people drink soy milk because they are lactose-intolerant or may have trouble with lactose (like myself) or maybe they just like the taste. I think the Coffee Latte Silk is pretty yummy.

I am not vegetarian or vegan, but if people want to be I have no problem with that. Some people honestly want animals treated ethically (like myself) and some don't want animals killed/eaten at all. The groups that bring attention to matters they care about are good; the groups who go to extremes (bombing slaughterhouses) are bad.