Gays shouldn't be allowed to marry

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

(Reposted here, because apperently every single dictionary, Encyclopedia, politician, and theologist in the entire world is wrong, and Ted_Easton is the only single person alive who knows the right definitions of the words "politics" and "religion", and that they actually mean the exact same thing. That's right; I'm sure they're dolts.)

I know this has been done before, but so have half the other rants I make. Deal. I hope I am adding something new to the mix with this. If I'm not, feel free to ignore it and let it die into obscurity: I will not bump it.

Gay people should not be allowed to marry, for one simple reason: Marriage is a Christian Ceremony, and the Christian bible specifically say's homosexuality is wrong. I say, let the homosexuals have civil ceromonies, as they are government ceremonies, and the government has no right to deny it to anyone. For this to work, however, I believe the government needs to do two things: give the exact same benifits as Marriage to Civil Ceremonies, as well as backing off completely of controll over Marriage. The government should not be "banning" gay marriage OR allowing it: they should be handing it off completely to the church and letting them handle it. By even getting involved, this would be like if the government passed some legislature to officially re-write the bible. We need to maintain a sepperation of church and state.

The only exeption I can think of where a gay couple should be allowed to marry is if they can find a priest/minister/reverend who would be willing to do the ceremony for them, and their church approves. Obviously if the church aproves with it, theres no trouble.

And before any of you idiots try to go "wel den dat meant u have 2 not let pagans and satanists marrry!!!!1 lol like i got u!"; exactly: once again, Christian Ceremony, so it's only for CHRISTIANS. I am one of the Paganistic religions (and bi, before any of you want to pull out the "homophobe" card) and therefor I have absolutely no right to get married. I probably WILL get marriage because of the benifits not offered with civil ceremonies, but if the government would get it's head out of their ass and give the benifits I mentioned earlier, I would do the right thing and take a CC.

[HighlyIllogical]

If a particular religion or group wants to have religious gay marriages, let them do so! However, sanctioning civil marriage (i.e. "civil unions") is 100% different. It's not religious and it is a government provided service/function, so anyone ought to be party to it, irrespective of race, gender, sexual orientation etc. just like any other government function. Age is permitted to be a limiting factor, naturally.

[Xmas-Bound-Pervert]

At 7/19/06 08:26 PM, Lettuceclock wrote: And before any of you idiots try to go "wel den dat meant u have 2 not let pagans and satanists marrry!!!!1 lol like i got u!"; exactly: once again, Christian Ceremony, so it's only for CHRISTIANS. I am one of the Paganistic religions (and bi, before any of you want to pull out the "homophobe" card) and therefor I have absolutely no right to get married. I probably WILL get marriage because of the benifits not offered with civil ceremonies, but if the government would get it's head out of their ass and give the benifits I mentioned earlier, I would do the right thing and take a CC.

You are the biggest asshole. Seriously. Its people like you (anti-gays) whowill be the end of human relations and, possibly, the world. I don't want to hear that religous crap. If you love someone-TRULY love someone-you should have every right to marry. Whether it be of the same sex or the opposite. That is happiness of the soul. If you can't understand that, than...you'll never understand love. Never. I suggest you watch brokeback mountain and find out how they live because of people like you.

[C-Damage]

Marriage is not a "christian ceremony", and the christian bible says nothing about homosexuals.

[AwesomeSauce]

At 7/19/06 09:10 PM, Herr_Fritz wrote: Shit...

Did you even read his post?

[nic-a-lick]

anyone has the right to marry even gay people
who gives a shit if someone is gay

[a-guy-with-no-life]

Look, The church's definition of marrige is a bond between a man and a woman till one of them dies. Pure and simple....
Gay marriages do not fit in this very strict def.
BUT!!!!
Gays SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT to be LEGALLY MARRIED. This means that you get the benifits of marriage (taxes and such)
The church MAY change it's definition in a LONG time(they change the rules sometimes you know)
Until then I beleive that if a homosexual has a lover. He should have the right to marry in terms of government.

[a-guy-with-no-life]

FYI: Other religions do get married(with different variants)
Not just the Christians.

[Maus]

At 7/19/06 08:26 PM, Lettuceclock wrote: Marriage is a Christian Ceremony

No, it isn't.

"Matrimony is impure and unholy, a means of sexual passion" -Origen
"[a man of God is to] cut down with an ax Virginity the Wood of Marriage" -St. Jerome
"...married people ought to blush at the state in which they are living." -St. Ambrose

St. Augustine straight out said that marriage was a sin. Tatian said that marriage was corruption, a "polluted, foul way of life."

Did you know that in early Syrian churches, if you had ever been married, you could not be baptised?

Really, about the first church sanctioned marriage was in 1215, when the fourth Lateran Council granted legal status to the act of blessing a newly wedded pair in order to keep lust out of God's house. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of marriage.

[earthsea]

At 7/19/06 08:26 PM, Lettuceclock wrote:
Gay people should not be allowed to marry, for one simple reason: Marriage is a Christian Ceremony,

No, it's not. The act of marriage was done before Christainity and the new testament were invented.

and the Christian bible specifically say's homosexuality is wrong.

True. It also is sexist, says parents have the right to kill their children for cursing, and allows slavery.

I say, let the homosexuals have civil ceromonies, as they are government ceremonies, and the government has no right to deny it to anyone. For this to work, however, I believe the government needs to do two things: give the exact same benifits as Marriage to Civil Ceremonies, as well as backing off completely of controll over Marriage.

True enough.

The government should not be "banning" gay marriage OR allowing it: they should be handing it off completely to the church and letting them handle it. By even getting involved, this would be like if the government passed some legislature to officially re-write the bible. We need to maintain a sepperation of church and state.

True enough.

The only exeption I can think of where a gay couple should be allowed to marry is if they can find a priest/minister/reverend who would be willing to do the ceremony for them, and their church approves. Obviously if the church aproves with it, theres no trouble.

In America, people have freedom of religion. There is nothing to keep gays from making a "church of gays." Besides, there would be at least one corrupt church that would service gays in marriage. So long as there is one, homosexuals would all flock there for marriage.

And before any of you idiots try to go "wel den dat meant u have 2 not let pagans and satanists marrry!!!!1 lol like i got u!"; exactly: once again, Christian Ceremony, so it's only for CHRISTIANS. I am one of the Paganistic religions (and bi, before any of you want to pull out the "homophobe" card) and therefor I have absolutely no right to get married. I probably WILL get marriage because of the benifits not offered with civil ceremonies, but if the government would get it's head out of their ass and give the benifits I mentioned earlier, I would do the right thing and take a CC.

True enough. I can't say you weren't civil. And you didn't say some idiotic " OH GHEYS R STUPID" quote or something. You make some good points.

[MoralLibertarian]

Why not?

[Elfer]

At 7/19/06 08:26 PM, Lettuceclock wrote: Gay people should not be allowed to marry, for one simple reason: Marriage is a Christian Ceremony, and the Christian bible specifically say's homosexuality is wrong.

Wrong. First, marriage is a ceremony available to many many religions all over the world, including ones older than Christianity, such as Hinduism, which predates christianity by well over 1000 years.

Second, in the eyes of a law, which is the issue at hand, marriage is a legal institution, not a religious one. There are no religious prerequisites for being issued a marriage license.

Therefore, your primary assertion is inapplicable and irrelevant, in addition to being blatantly false and misleading.

[Proteas]

At 7/19/06 09:17 PM, C-Damage wrote: Marriage is not a "christian ceremony", and the christian bible says nothing about homosexuals.

You wouldn't know what a "Christian Bible" says with regards to homosexuality if it jumped out and bit you on the ass.

[RedSkunk]

At 7/19/06 09:41 PM, Maus wrote:

At 7/19/06 08:26 PM, Lettuceclock wrote: Marriage is a Christian Ceremony

No, it isn't.

We have a winner. Maus' post was excellent, tho it wouldn't have been the direction I'd have gone in (mostly cause I didn't know enough to make the argument).

[Aythrea]

At 7/19/06 09:17 PM, C-Damage wrote: Marriage is not a "christian ceremony", and the christian bible says nothing about homosexuals.

Nothing is said about homosexuality, however! Any position besides missionary is considered sadomy. And since sadomy is illegal in most places, it gives the politicians a place to work from.

This whole anti-gay thing is Moot at best. Who are we to care who Joe Jacobs or Steve Whatsisface wanna have a relationship with? Give them their rights and stop being so anal (pardon the pun) about the fact that America has a sub-culture that is, for once, making a stand for itself, rather than being stomped out.

[Gunter45]

So we're only supposed to recognize Christian marriages? I think that violates the Lemon test a little.

[EviLudy]

Yes they should be.

There are way too many discussions about this going on. It'getting pretty darn annoying.
Not letting gay people marry basically is discrimination.

[afliXion]

If they turned it over to 'the church' it would be legal by now in every state by now. The vast majority of all churches in the world no longer stand for the authority of the Bible.

[Demosthenez]

At 7/19/06 09:41 PM, Maus wrote: St. Augustine straight out said that marriage was a sin. Tatian said that marriage was corruption, a "polluted, foul way of life."

Im confused, why? What was bad about it to those Saints?

[niffweed17]

to deem marriage a religious term, whether accurate or not, is irrelevant.

as long as some form of legal binding is given to homosexuals, nobody should have any qualms at all about what it's called. if you want to call this marriage, fine. if you want to call it civil unions (and have this legally equivalent to marriage), fine. i don't think it matters at all.

this is just a petty quibble which ignores the underlying fundamental conflict behind this issue.

[MortalWound]

At 7/19/06 08:26 PM, Lettuceclock wrote:

Gay people should not be allowed to marry, for one simple reason: Marriage is a Christian Ceremony.

So, no Jews, Islams, Taos, Scientologists, Budhists, or any other religion can get married because it's a christian ceremony? That's sounds like racism to me.

I say, let the homosexuals have civil ceromonies, as they are government ceremonies, and the government has no right to deny it to anyone.

Why not let them make it official? A marriage and a civil ceromonies is pratically the same thing, with a few differences.

For this to work, however, I believe the government needs to do two things: give the exact same benifits as Marriage to Civil Ceremonies,

If you make the two have the same benifits, wouldn't they in turn be the exact same thing just with a different title?

The government should not be "banning" gay marriage OR allowing it: they should be handing it off completely to the church and letting them handle it.

Real good idea, They'd ban it the second the issue hit the steps of the vatican you know that. And the church has had great ideas in the past. the crusades, knowing how to stop the black plague but not telling it's followers (They knew that you just had to be in a warmer enviornment), Persecution of jews until recently. If you look in older versions of the bible, it says that it was becauase of the Jews Jesus died, and several other bad events were blamed on them.

Obviously if the church aproves with it, theres no trouble.

The church has never approved of gay marriages. If they have, please correct me.

I have absolutely no right to get married. I probably WILL get marriage because of the benifits not offered with civil ceremonies,

But your not gay, your bi, as you said, so you could just say your straight and they'd be like "sure go ahead." Why did you also belittle yourself by saying you don't deserve marriage? Not too mention, if you did get married, you'd be going against your own religion. I believe people who try to beat the system by saying they are something they're not should not be allowed to marry.

One more thing, CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE DAMN "GAY SHOULDN'T MARRY" TOPICS? They are so fricken redundant and there are waaaaay too many of them. Why can't someone just make an official "Talk about Gay stuff here" topic?

[Fuoco]

At 7/20/06 01:46 AM, SinisterPotatoKing wrote: i support gay merrage only if both chicks are hot

You're stupid.

And marriage is sacred.
Love does not happen between two of the same gender.
At least, not erotic love.
If there's no love, there should not be marriage.

P.S.
Erotic love is way diferent from something sexual, people tend to confuse this.

Confusing? kind of. Read Erich Fromm.

[MortalWound]

At 7/20/06 02:06 AM, FuocoOnAshes wrote: And marriage is sacred.

If marriage is sacred, why do people cheat, lie, abuse, and divorce each other? Anything
sacred as well as ethical or moral went out the window years ago

Love does not happen between two of the same gender.
At least, not erotic love.

Why can't it? If you love a person, marry them. And erotc love can happen, just look at the internet. You'll find lots of "erotic love" between gays/lesbians :-)

If there's no love, there should not be marriage.

This i agree with you. If you don't love someone, don't marry them.

Erotic love is way diferent from something sexual, people tend to confuse this.

They should change the name then...

[DaRKNeZz1]

And you shouldn't be allowed to breathe.

[Fuoco]

At 7/20/06 02:13 AM, MortalWound wrote: If marriage is sacred, why do people cheat, lie, abuse, and divorce each other? Anything
sacred as well as ethical or moral went out the window years ago

Because there is no love.
And its sad.
Most of it its the parents fault, their lack of knowledge affect their childs.

Love does not happen between two of the same gender.
At least, not erotic love.

Why can't it? If you love a person, marry them.

I will not marry my brother or sister only because I love them. Why? 'Cause that's fraternal love.

And erotc love can happen, just look at the internet. You'll find lots of "erotic love" between gays/lesbians :-)

That's not erotic love, not even love. Only sexual impulses.

Erotic love is way diferent from something sexual, people tend to confuse this.

They should change the name then...

That... I kind of agree with. But is ok since the word "love" is sticked to it.

[Zen444]

I see Lettuceclock getting destroyed.

I'm against gay marriage because there might be some blacks who are gay and want to get married.

[Makaio]

At 7/19/06 09:17 PM, C-Damage wrote: Marriage is not a "christian ceremony", and the christian bible says nothing about homosexuals.

well i do agree marriage is not a christian ceremony considering it is performed in every single religion on the planet that i am aware of but there is something saying how men laying with men is a sin.

Religion infuriates me, it holds back technological and social progress in a lot of fields and promotes a lot of hate, religion is a disease and i hate the fact I've been Born into a time when it still exists and wont be able to see the blind ignorance dissipate during my lifetime is extremely frustrating,.

[Ashley-Girl]

And...?! Black people are not humans?

[4aces]

At 7/19/06 09:17 PM, C-Damage wrote: Marriage is not a "christian ceremony", and the christian bible says nothing about homosexuals.

yes it does..- the bible(not the damn new testament thing..) -acknowledges homosexuality as an abomination-but.... it also forbids the eating of pork...-and you still do it.

[Zen444]

At 7/20/06 06:39 AM, Ashley_Girl wrote: And...?! Black people are not humans?

No, I just don't want black people, like myself, slandering our race by marrying other men.