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At 8/2/06 01:13 AM, RedScorpion wrote:

At 8/2/06 12:25 AM, WolvenBear wrote: ...hits nothing but civilians.

Not quite.

"Fifty-four Israelis have died - 36 soldiers as well as 18 civilians killed in Hezbollah rocket attacks."

Nice source you got there, but how does that make a difference? Soldiers are killed while confronting the Hezbollah, while Israeli civilians are killed in their own country by missiles. Also what makes the difference between the Israeli soldiers and Israeli civilians? Soldiers are civilians who use weapons to protect the other civilians, while the Hezbollah 'warriors' are people who have officially declared the only thing they want is the destruction of Israel.

-- Another point: It doesn't make any difference if 5 soldiers die or 5 civilians die (well maybe a little bit), because it is not the same kind of combat. Soldiers die while fighting, civilians die in their homes, except Hezbollah soldiers die WHILE fighting WITH civilians IN their homes. Now that's a big difference, don't you think?

At 8/2/06 12:10 AM, WolvenBear wrote: That feeling has existed in the Arab world for decades.

Then why did the most prominent Arab nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia initially denounce Hezbollah's actions? That feeling was apparently not that prevalent if they thought they could get away with criticising the Hezbollah. Arabs are naturally very prone to blame Israel instead of other Arabs but when the sole aggression comes from the Hezbollah they correctly identify Hezbollah as the aggressors, Israel's current reaction gives enough reasons for criticism, however.

One can only hope.

If they lose support they'll be forced to give in. They'd have nothing to gain by holding the hostages if their popularity were falling.

Israel would still get massive criticism if they waited 3 years. Stop pretending that all Israel had to do was show restraint. The world won't back Israel no matter what.

Yeah, the world just hates Israel for no specific reason because they're all a bunch of anti-Semites. Wait, are they? The world is disagreeing with Israel's actions because these actions barely give any reason for support. It's that obvious.

And from past experiences with Hezbollah and Hamas, Israel knows diplomacy doesn't work. This was an act of war.

And Israel should know from previous experiences, like 1967 and their last intervention in Lebanon that responding by instantly throwing bombs around also doesn't solve problems. The ensuing infuriation simply makes new conflicts inevitable.

Nor will ignoring the blatantly obvious fact that a major part of Hezbollah's platform IS the destruction of Israel. As is Hamas's. PC claptrap helps no one.

Then explain why Hezbollah started with assaults only after the Cedar Revolution. This attack was not started simply because they hate Israel, like the insurgency in Iraq wasn't started out of simple dislike for America. In the words of Sun Tzu, you don't have to fear (a hundred) battles if you know yourself and your enemy. If you simplify your opponent's entire ideology into "well, they must just hate us for no reason" and try to explain all their actions from that oversimplification then you'll never permanently win a conflict. Although Nasrallah would love to see Israel wiped off the planet he knows as well as we do that this conflict won't bring him one step closer to the destruction of Israel.

And Hamas agrees to coexistence with Israel, that's what the Hudna was all about. In the words of the late al-Rantissi: "It is forbidden in our religion to give up a part of our land, so we can't recognise Israel at all. But we can accept a truce with them, and we can live side by side and refer all the issues to the coming generations." Haniya is or was at least as moderate.

If that's where the Hezbollah monsters are hiding...shrugs. It sucks that Hezbollah feels the need to use human shields. The blood is on THEIR hands. The pamphlets that Israel is dropping on the vallages prior to bombings prove they're trying to reduce civilian casualities.

This has been mentioned a thousand times already, those pamphlets serve no purpose if fleeing is just as dangerous as staying. If Israel was not at the same time targeting roads I could have sympathised, but dropping flyers that basically say "if you stay you might die and if you flee you might die" doesn't give Israel carte blanche to shell urban areas.

As opposed to Hezbollah which is deliberately targeting exclusively civilian areas. Civilian deaths are sad, but when Hezbollah fights this way, unavoidable. At least Israel's hitting their targets.

The way the other guy is fighting is irrelevant, Israel should be on a moral high ground and refrain from these tactics. If you fire shells knowing that you'll hit civilians you're killing delibaretely, and deliberate killing is almost never justified, maybe in a WW2-like Total War situation but not when you completely overshadow the other party in military might.

Yea, we saw what a great job UN troops did in Rwanda....what a joke.

It worked in Kosovo, didn't it? Lebanon had a decent economy, earlier experiences with international soldiers and it was a relatively Westernised country. It's ludicrous to point out a situation like sending soldiers to a hellhole such as Rwanda and say "if it didn't work THERE, then it can't possibly work anywhere else".

A great article in Monday's Media Guardian, with the Israelis bleating that the BBC isn't reporting, merely gushing forth a stream of anti-Israeli bile at every opportunity.

Of course, the article also presented the fact twice as many Israeli officials were interviewed and asked for their opinion than Lebanese ones, which usually makes it quite h ard to be anti-Israeli if they get double the opportunity to spread their propeganda than the country that's getting blown to pieces.

Then again, maybe they'd get better coverage if they weren't blowing up UN observers and saying they were standing in a missile silo, telling Lebanese to evacuate their towns and blowing up the convoys they're in and the usual excuse that every bit of collateral damage was a screen for another missile site. Once it might almost convince somebody, but dozens of time?

The BBC also forgot to mention Condoleeza Rice didn't decline to meet with the Lebanese, but was advised not to come in case she got lynched. After all, taking 12 days before bothering to talk about a ceasefire, and the whole process was Rice and the Israelis discussing what to do - in other words the US and Israel agree terms and the Lebanese better obey.

Meanwile, Tony Blair isn't bothered about being Prime Ministerial and taking any sort of action, but is happy to jet off to California and talk about climate change in front of the cameras with a man who owns five Hummers, while US planes refuel in Scotland carrying payloads of bombs to Israel to be launched at Lebanon once again. This'll probably come up at some point, methinks...

At 8/2/06 11:18 AM, Raveinx wrote:

NO to Israel!!!

... Maybe you should explain your argument a little further? Why 'NO' to Israel?

Turns out that some people escaped the Qana rubble and now reports are that only 28, not 52, have died.

At 8/2/06 11:18 AM, Raveinx wrote: Venezuela supports Lebanon, Palestine and the others!

Oh no! Not Venezuela! Is this how they repay us for the awesome song we wrote about them?

At 8/2/06 11:42 AM, -Toast- wrote:

At 8/2/06 11:18 AM, Raveinx wrote:

NO to Israel!!!

... Maybe you should explain your argument a little further? Why 'NO' to Israel?

Shut up Adam.. You're a brainwashed little soldier. suck it.

Who isnt brainwashed by something??????

At 8/3/06 11:33 AM, Wyrlum wrote: Turns out that some people escaped the Qana rubble and now reports are that only 28, not 52, have died.

The real question is, where were all the young men? Why were there only women, children, and elderly in that building. It seems too 'set up'. There's more to this story.

At 8/3/06 12:31 PM, mynamewontfitin wrote:

At 8/3/06 11:33 AM, Wyrlum wrote: Turns out that some people escaped the Qana rubble and now reports are that only 28, not 52, have died.

The real question is, where were all the young men? Why were there only women, children, and elderly in that building. It seems too 'set up'. There's more to this story.

Yeah well, israel has been mainly murdering children and women since the war started.

At 8/3/06 12:15 PM, -Puzz- wrote: Shut up Adam.. You're a brainwashed little soldier. suck it.

You mean like Israel is brainwashing it's citizens and all of the jews? Very realistic.

At 8/3/06 12:38 PM, Lidov wrote: You mean like Israel is brainwashing it's citizens and all of the jews? Very realistic.

Very.

At 8/3/06 12:33 PM, -Puzz- wrote: Yeah well, israel has been mainly murdering children and women since the war started.

This is bullshit, we are not targeting civillians, and the citizens who get killed were warned. It is not like we are trying to kill the Lebanese because we are mean.

At 8/3/06 12:40 PM, -Puzz- wrote: Very.

Very not realistic, considering not all of the Israelis and Jews support the war.

At 8/3/06 12:33 PM, -Puzz- wrote:

At 8/3/06 12:31 PM, mynamewontfitin wrote:

At 8/3/06 11:33 AM, Wyrlum wrote: Turns out that some people escaped the Qana rubble and now reports are that only 28, not 52, have died.

The real question is, where were all the young men? Why were there only women, children, and elderly in that building. It seems too 'set up'. There's more to this story.

Yeah well, israel has been mainly murdering children and women since the war started.

So how come there are no men in all of these houses? How could they just abandon their families? If I had children and my house was located in a potentially dangerous position, I would definately take my children away from the house and somewhere safe. Leaving them there is just cruel.

That was a shelter, and since there were too many refugees only children, women and the elderly were taken.
There were no survivors, it was hit twice.

At 8/3/06 12:31 PM, mynamewontfitin wrote: The real question is, where were all the young men? Why were there only women, children, and elderly in that building. It seems too 'set up'. There's more to this story.

No evidence? Check. Ridiculous factor? Check. Bias the only reason the statement was made? Check.

Yep, you just made a conspiracy theory. Congratulations.

At 7/13/06 01:15 PM, Jedi_Master_Bate wrote: Yes the palistinians are the true abomination we should kill all of the god damn turban heads and then that will solve quite a few problems they are animals and the deserve to be slaughterd like animals. Kill Allah

Incorrect. it's hateful people such as yourself who are the true abomination to this world. getting rid of racist sorts, (such as yourself), would usher in a golden, peaceful era of humanity. now, who can say that that's a bad thing?

Israel have the Americans on their side. I know and you know nobody can do anything about it.

At 8/3/06 06:22 PM, SubKutz wrote: Israel have the Americans on their side. I know and you know nobody can do anything about it.

OMG! The Americans are on our side?! That surely mean that we have no right to protect ourselves from the Hezbollah.

At 8/3/06 06:26 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 8/3/06 06:22 PM, SubKutz wrote: Israel have the Americans on their side. I know and you know nobody can do anything about it.

OMG! The Americans are on our side?! Shut up mate. You would be nothing without American Financial backing.

That surely mean that we have no right to protect ourselves from the Hezbollah.

Yeah the same right Hamas have, when you go blowing up Palastinean targets with you American funded helicopter gun ships.

At 8/3/06 07:17 PM, SubKutz wrote: Yeah the same right Hamas have, when you go blowing up Palastinean targets with you American funded helicopter gun ships.

Firstly, the Hamas started all of this when it kidnapped our soldier and launched rockets towards our cities. Secondly, if the Hamas wants to ptotect itself, targeting civillians is never the answer, it will just cause more problems to them. If they want silence, they need to stop bombing us for two years, then they get the west bank and start their own country. Thirdly, as you mentioned, we are blowing up palastinian targets, not just blowing up, but blowing up terrorists.

At 8/4/06 05:41 AM, Lidov wrote: Secondly, if the Hamas wants to ptotect itself, targeting civillians is never the answer, it will just cause more problems to them.

Big contradiction to your arguments right there. You've been bitching about how Israel is protecting his country from Hezbollah, yet they're mostly killing civilians (children and women). Israel and Hezbollah are at the same level of stupidity.

At 8/4/06 06:09 AM, -Puzz- wrote: Big contradiction to your arguments right there. You've been bitching about how Israel is protecting his country from Hezbollah, yet they're mostly killing civilians (children and women). Israel and Hezbollah are at the same level of stupidity.

There is a difference between targeting civillians, and warning civillians between bombing a place with Hezbollah thingies. There is no actual prrof that we are mostly killing civillians, because the Hezbollah is hiding this information. The only thing Israel can do to protect it's civillians is to destroy Hezbollah targets, which are sadly among civillians.

At 8/4/06 06:13 AM, Lidov wrote: There is a difference between targeting civillians, and warning civillians between bombing a place with Hezbollah thingies. There is no actual prrof that we are mostly killing civillians, because the Hezbollah is hiding this information. The only thing Israel can do to protect it's civillians is to destroy Hezbollah targets, which are sadly among civillians.

I hate your shitty philosophy. Warning civilians to leave their home? So you can after bomb a pseudo-empty building? That's bullshit.

Haha, the Hezbollah hiding the information?! It's Israel who's hiding all the infos! WHY WOULD THE HEZBOLLAH NEGLECT CIVILIAN KILLS? It only gives them a good motive to fire rockets at israel..

At 8/4/06 06:19 AM, -Puzz- wrote: I hate your shitty philosophy. Warning civilians to leave their home? So you can after bomb a pseudo-empty building? That's bullshit.

So that we can bomb the hidouts of the Hezbollah people from which the rockets were launched and the actual launchers.

Haha, the Hezbollah hiding the information?! It's Israel who's hiding all the infos! WHY WOULD THE HEZBOLLAH NEGLECT CIVILIAN KILLS? It only gives them a good motive to fire rockets at israel..

The Hezbollah is hiding the information of who is a Hezbollah person and who isn't. They never say that a Hezbollah person was killed, yet the assumption is 350, or close to that. What kind of infos are we hiding?
Also, Hezbollah doesn't care about the people of Lebanon, if it had, it wouldn't have started from the first place.

At 8/4/06 06:56 AM, Lidov wrote: Also, Hezbollah doesn't care about the people of Lebanon, if it had, it wouldn't have started from the first place.

You're wrong. Infact the leader of Hezbollah said in a speech that if Israel stops killing civilians, he will stop launching rockets (first steps towards a ceasefire). He knew there would be civilian casualties, but not this much.

However Israel goes ahead and threatens to hit Beirut (not south of lebanon and no Hezbollah there), Lebanons capital to which Hezbollah will respond by hitting Tel aviv. Then Israel says if Tel aviv is hit they will bomb all the infrastructures in Lebanon.
Seems to me the Israelis are being the fuckers here. They don't care about Hezbollah, they just want to hurt the country because since they started bombing the only thing they did was turn the world against them.

And lol at the 350 Hezbollah casualties comment. Nowhere near that.

At 8/4/06 06:56 AM, Lidov wrote: So that we can bomb the hidouts of the Hezbollah people from which the rockets were launched and the actual launchers.

Katuyshas have been truck launched since WWII, in case you didnt get the memo.

At 8/4/06 12:55 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: Katuyshas have been truck launched since WWII, in case you didnt get the memo.

Yes, I know that, but in Israel the word Katyusha is a second word for all kinds of rockets which are launched towards Israel.

At 8/4/06 12:46 PM, Visual wrote:

At 8/4/06 06:56 AM, Lidov wrote: Also, Hezbollah doesn't care about the people of Lebanon, if it had, it wouldn't have started from the first place.

You're wrong. Infact the leader of Hezbollah said in a speech that if Israel stops killing civilians, he will stop launching rockets (first steps towards a ceasefire). He knew there would be civilian casualties, but not this much.

IF that is true that is awesome, and Israel should take advantage of it.

But great job on his part not anticipating that if you put rocket launchers next to a house that it will be hit.

At 8/4/06 12:46 PM, Visual wrote:

At 8/4/06 06:56 AM, Lidov wrote: Also, Hezbollah doesn't care about the people of Lebanon, if it had, it wouldn't have started from the first place.

You're wrong. Infact the leader of Hezbollah said in a speech that if Israel stops killing civilians, he will stop launching rockets (first steps towards a ceasefire). He knew there would be civilian casualties, but not this much.

cause since they started bombing the only thing they did was turn the world against them.

Nope, the simplest solution to end the civilian deaths to return the kidnapped soldiers and stop the rockets. Making Israel stop firing before that is achieved would be like punishing a child who got his candy stolen instead of punishing the kid who stole it.