The end of religion?

[CooperFord]

I was just watching Conan O'Brain and I saw Racheal Drach was the guest. I don't really watch Saturday Night live anymore but I noticed that she made a joke about a WWJD thong that seemed to stun the audience. Of course, I think this is just an outgrowth of what seems to be going on in this country. Attendence to church is down across the board, especially with people my age (Below 25). My question is this, does anybody see a time where religion is openly ridicled not just on the internet and in private, but openly in the media. I'm not just talking about the occasional rock star either, and also keep in mind american pop culture is very much a global network now. I am personally agnostic butI still feel uneasy about this whole subject. Any thoughts?

[Labanzab]

I don't know if this is an end to religion. As society changes, so do the beliefs of the society. Older religions begin to loose their relevance to people. As our knowledge of the universe expands, certain older idealogies seem humurous to us.
Our spiritual beliefs evolve through time. It has always been so. Even today we laugh at ancient religions. In the future, others will laugh at ours.

[CooperFord]

Yes, I do understand that religions evolve. What I'm asking however is for you, whoever reads this, to step back and try to look at the global trend this could spark and change the very make up of society. I have already seen it in Spain where the girl I was staying with (a native) told me that churches weren't cool when I asked her to see the local cathedral. I have heard on news reports that young Iranians are rebelling aginest the Muslim run goverment which is mainly fueled by an illegal intake of American pop music. I heard from my mother that her church (which I don't go to) is in a state of finacial crisis as are many other churches. Knowing all this I have to wonder what the state of the world will be when my future children are my age, 20 to 30 years from now. I understand that this also goes into globalization, which is a very hot topic in Europe right now, but I really want input from you the reader on how you see this aspect of life evolving.

[EvilBread]

I say, beleive in what you beleive in...because in the end we will all find out the answer..right?

[thedirtiestjamocan]

At 2/10/03 08:26 PM, CooperFord wrote: I was just watching Conan O'Brain and I saw Racheal Drach was the guest. I don't really watch Saturday Night live anymore but I noticed that she made a joke about a WWJD thong that seemed to stun the audience. Of course, I think this is just an outgrowth of what seems to be going on in this country. Attendence to church is down across the board, especially with people my age (Below 25). My question is this, does anybody see a time where religion is openly ridicled not just on the internet and in private, but openly in the media. I'm not just talking about the occasional rock star either, and also keep in mind american pop culture is very much a global network now. I am personally agnostic butI still feel uneasy about this whole subject. Any thoughts?

I think that most religions in general, particularly Christianity, are an archaic practice with no proof of their beliefs, and are kept alive only because of tradition, one of the traditions being to try and spread it as much as possible. I love it how if a Christian ever tries to argue with me they always say that the Bible is proof. Face it, it's just a very old book written by a bunch of guys over a period of time meant to explain things unexplainable back then (but are explainable NOW). I count myself as agnostic also as I dont want to sink to their level and try to convert the masses; however, i'm not against arguing with die-hard religious types about the topic. ...Goddamn missionaries.

[MlnwY]

At 2/11/03 02:22 AM, thedirtiestjamocan wrote:

At 2/10/03 08:26 PM, CooperFord wrote: I was just watching Conan O'Brain and I saw Racheal Drach was the guest. I don't really watch Saturday Night live anymore but I noticed that she made a joke about a WWJD thong that seemed to stun the audience. Of course, I think this is just an outgrowth of what seems to be going on in this country. Attendence to church is down across the board, especially with people my age (Below 25). My question is this, does anybody see a time where religion is openly ridicled not just on the internet and in private, but openly in the media. I'm not just talking about the occasional rock star either, and also keep in mind american pop culture is very much a global network now. I am personally agnostic butI still feel uneasy about this whole subject. Any thoughts?

I think that most religions in general, particularly Christianity, are an archaic practice with no proof of their beliefs, and are kept alive only because of tradition, one of the traditions being to try and spread it as much as possible. I love it how if a Christian ever tries to argue with me they always say that the Bible is proof. Face it, it's just a very old book written by a bunch of guys over a period of time meant to explain things unexplainable back then (but are explainable NOW). I count myself as agnostic also as I dont want to sink to their level and try to convert the masses; however, i'm not against arguing with die-hard religious types about the topic. ...Goddamn missionaries.

I agree with you, and I also think that not only Christianity is non-proofable, but also Judiasm and Muslim, but one of the foundations of belief is it being non-proofable... I'm an atheist, but I understand why there is religion and why it will not disapeare - people need knowlodge and religion gives them just that, and on the way another thing to rely on.

[Dig-the-Man]

I don't think that there ever will come a time when religion can be openly ridiculed. The essence of societies is based on religion. Laws and morality are based on religion such as, "Thou shall not kill" and so forth. It is doubtful that we will ever see the day when MEDIA picks up the torch and actually spreads some light on the subject. People will only be able to continue their attacks on religion from the shadows... and perosonally, that's how I like it. Opinions are opinions, and you yourself should not be ridculed for thinking differently from someone else.

[Labanzab]

A sudden and complete breakdown of religion would indeed cause chaos in society. It is infused into all things, whether we agree with it or not. Many people feel that they need religion. I see no harm in it, so long as their beliefs to not harm others.
There will always be questions without certain answers. Religion and spirituality is our attempt to speculate what these answers may be. I doubt religion will ever disappear.

[Spike-J-Wolfwood]

Yes, a sudden break down would pose a dangerous situation. Though, I am happy to see that mankind is progressing to the point where we no longer have to put every aspect of our lives to chance (God). This means that instead of praying for a better world we just may take up the responsibility for creating one.

[Labanzab]

You've hit the nail on the head there... most religions speak of a better world. A good religion should actually encourage its members to actively work for one. I have never been a big supporter of organized religion, but I have a great deal of admiration for ones that do good works rather than just preach their morals and pray.

[Nirvana13666]

I doubt religion will ever be openly banned. People feel they need to have faith in something, it would drive them insane not to have some control over what is gonna happen to them when they died. Too many people would sacrifice their life for their religion and in many ways the government is tied to religion.

[JMHX]

People just take relgion less seriously than they did in...say...the Middle Ages. Slowly, and to the anger of the Christians, the world is edging toward free thought, as is evident with the SSA (Student Secular Association) which has popped up in High School club listings throughout the nation.

[Shih]

Not all christians are against the propogation of free thought. Hell though when you get right down to it atheism is as much a form of religion as christianity.

[Taxman2A]

I'm not sure where I see religion (read: Christianity) in the next 100 years. Looking at US history, its clear that as a nation we've grown more and more secular over the years. Going back to the 1700s children were hanged in the streets for violating "god's law", to the blue laws (which are still alive in many parts of the US, but not enforced) which make it illegal for businesses to be open on Sundays at all. With this whole priest molestation issue that's come up now, the catholic church is really hurting for attendance. Will it ever dissappear completely? There's a chance, but probably not within our lifetime.

On a related note, I am teh level 13!!!!

[EvilBread]

I wouldn't say its really openly made fun of in the media, with our country that is nearly impossible...we are america, the politically correct superpower. Be that a good or a bad thing you decide.

[EvilBread]

At 5/8/03 12:36 PM, Taxman2A wrote: I'm not sure where I see religion (read: Christianity) in the next 100 years. Looking at US history, its clear that as a nation we've grown more and more secular over the years. Going back to the 1700s children were hanged in the streets for violating "god's law", to the blue laws (which are still alive in many parts of the US, but not enforced) which make it illegal for businesses to be open on Sundays at all. With this whole priest molestation issue that's come up now, the catholic church is really hurting for attendance. Will it ever dissappear completely? There's a chance, but probably not within our lifetime.

It makes you think doesnt it? Would we still hang children in the streets if they violated "god's laws" if we still ran on the same technology as they had in the 1700s?

[JMHX]

I was listening to the radio today, and there was a couple who had just been married, and they said "We owe it all to god. Without his help, this never would have been possible. It's by the will of god that I asked her to marry me."

Now, come on, take a bit of credit. I doubt the omnipresent deity paid for the wedding bill, either.

[nitroxide]

religion can end if the goverment ends...i am an atheist and i criticize christianity and catholism openly every day wether it be on the internet or in life i love all religions but those to i find so hypocritical that it bugs me i can never imply my beliefs on someone or my disbeliefs but people that have known nothing else but religion like my mother grasping on to a man that i can see has done nothing for her is sad....those kind of people will never let go...but they will go behind their religions back thinking god wont see.

[blackvelvetjesus]

Shih- Not all christians are against the propogation of free thought. Hell though when you get right down to it atheism is as much a form of religion as christianity.

Huh? The only maxim of atheism is disbelief in the supernatural. Atheism isn't subject to interpretation because it is a single concept.

[Trerro]

I don't think religion is dying, rather it's evolving. For the last millenia, people have followed political leaders who bend and twist religion to their will, turning belief systems involving peace into institutions of war. People were exposed to crap designed to make them fight in "holy wars" (an oxymoron if ever there was one.)

Enter the modern age, with the internet and free flow of ideas. No one can be forced to live in a bubble anymore, and everyone's beliefs are starting to be heard. Thus, people are beginning to explore faiths and choose a religion (or choose to not have one) based on what they feel is right, not following warmongering idiots. More importantly, people are finally starting to respect others religions, and to understand that no one really knows for sure exactly how things work, and that every system probably has some right and wrong in it. I'm not seeing a problem here.

[Pablothus]

I think that money is the new religion for many...
If religion is dying is cause people get tired of realizing that many religious man only use God to make fanatics gives them gold and many other situations that I will not mention cause they dont make any sense to be mentioned in politic, (pedophile monks, for example)

[Shih]

At 5/10/03 03:59 PM, blackvelvetjesus wrote: Shih- Not all christians are against the propogation of free thought. Hell though when you get right down to it atheism is as much a form of religion as christianity.

Huh? The only maxim of atheism is disbelief in the supernatural. Atheism isn't subject to interpretation because it is a single concept.

It takes faith to look at the incredible world we live in and say this is it. I tend to define religion by the absence or pesence of faith not a codification or dogma, that's all I was saying.

[JMHX]

Either way, religion sure isn't getting a good makeover now that the number of pedophile Catholic priests numbers in the hundreds. But we've been through this before.

[nitroxide]

Religion is dying in the midst of great spiritual hunger.We yearn to reclaim the deep, primal sacred story of our evolving universe; of planet Earth as our cosmic home; in the diverse and magnificent array of life-forms around us; in the largely untold story of the evolution of spiritual consciousness within humanity itself and, finally, in the contemporary desire to create a one-world family characterized by love, justice, peace and liberation.

The shift and transformation of religion to spirituality should be embraced if not humankind will be on its way to extinction as a species if we do not change our ethnocentric and patriarchal mindset.

i have an open mind, that allowed me to objectively weigh down all the pros, all the cons, all the facts, all the evidence, and all the arguments, and i came to a single conclusion: there is no afterlife. if however someone can conclusively prove that there is, then that's something different, but nobody has, nobody will, and nobody can.

[Shih]

At 5/13/03 03:23 AM, nitroxide wrote: i have an open mind, that allowed me to objectively weigh down all the pros, all the cons, all the facts, all the evidence, and all the arguments, and i came to a single conclusion: there is no afterlife. if however someone can conclusively prove that there is, then that's something different, but nobody has, nobody will, and nobody can.

That's why it's called faith Nitro, science itself holds to the belief that nothing is impossible only highly improbable. And just as no one can conclusively prove there is an afterlife no one can disprove it.

Religion isn't about pros or cons that attitude is what leads to people worshipping out of fear not faith, what matters isn't the odds of it being right or whether it's advantageous. What matters is whether your faith can give you the strength to wake up, to look at the world and see that although it may not be what it should you have the strength to try and make it be what it could and should be. That's the purpose of faith beyond salvation or atonement, faith should grant you the will to hold fast to life and make of it what you will.

[nitroxide]

At 5/13/03 11:43 AM, Shih wrote:

At 5/13/03 03:23 AM, nitroxide wrote:

That's why it's called faith Nitro, science itself holds to the belief that nothing is impossible only highly improbable. And just as no one can conclusively prove there is an afterlife no one can disprove it.

Religion isn't about pros or cons that attitude is what leads to people worshipping out of fear not faith, what matters isn't the odds of it being right or whether it's advantageous. What matters is whether your faith can give you the strength to wake up, to look at the world and see that although it may not be what it should you have the strength to try and make it be what it could and should be. That's the purpose of faith beyond salvation or atonement, faith should grant you the will to hold fast to life and make of it what you will.

shih faith is something man made to preoccupy humanity never allowing humanity to allow to see society abnormalities.faith is supposed to take away your problems but it doesnt how can one be so stupid as to wait for a heaven that has never been proven while many have their heaven on earth.Regardless, the faith that we have, should be a faith that is worth dying for...and alot of religious people never give themselves fully to a religion those that do i see no benefits from it i live better than most religious people and i am an atheist with a strong disconcern for the beliefg in omnipresent beings.

The Church itself seeks to maintain theological room for both liberals and conservative, by using language that can be interpreted in different ways and by eschewing demands for biblical fundamentalism...but not me i will have no faith and i see lies in the cross jesus was brown not this white man on the cross he was hebrew and traditional hebrews in that time were brown...

The Masonic Movement is the custodian of the law,
the holder of the Mysteries, and the seat of initiation a far more occult organization than can be
realized intended to be the training school for coming
advanced occultists...noone really knows the power of this groups faith free masonry is a religion with no faith....shih im pretty happy and healthy for some guy that hates and ridicules christianity and catholism there are thousands of religions around the world but whose to say wich one is right.

[Shih]

At 5/13/03 12:48 PM, nitroxide wrote:
shih faith is something man made to preoccupy humanity never allowing humanity to allow to see society abnormalities.faith is supposed to take away your problems but it doesnt how can one be so stupid as to wait for a heaven that has never been proven while many have their heaven on earth.Regardless, the faith that we have, should be a faith that is worth dying for...and alot of religious people never give themselves fully to a religion those that do i see no benefits from it i live better than most religious people and i am an atheist with a strong disconcern for the beliefg in omnipresent beings.

I wasn't talking about religion I was talking about faith. The two are different concepts entirely, religion is the codification of faith. Humanity can have faith without religion, but not true religion with out faith. As far as the belief in omnipresent beings goes you don't need to have faith in them. Take faith in humanity, in your friends, your family, yourself, in the great Gazoo for all I care. The expression of faith is irrelevant the presence of faith is not. That's why I maintain that atheism is a religion as much as anything, less rules than most but a religion nonetheless.

The Church itself seeks to maintain theological room for both liberals and conservative, by using language that can be interpreted in different ways and by eschewing demands for biblical fundamentalism...but not me i will have no faith and i see lies in the cross jesus was brown not this white man on the cross he was hebrew and traditional hebrews in that time were brown...

Again this isn't about christianity or any other religion it's about faith. I'm not christian either. I don't mock christianity but that's because I've had as many positive experiences with christians as I've had negative ones. The church itself is irrelevant to faith what matters is the individual and their faith in what they feel.

The Masonic Movement is the custodian of the law,
the holder of the Mysteries, and the seat of initiation a far more occult organization than can be
realized intended to be the training school for coming
advanced occultists...noone really knows the power of this groups faith free masonry is a religion with no faith....shih im pretty happy and healthy for some guy that hates and ridicules christianity and catholism there are thousands of religions around the world but whose to say wich one is right.

I wasn't saying you weren't happy or healthy Nitro just empty. ANd before you're offended by that let me clarify. When I say empty I mean that the lack of faith is what makes you empty not that you aren't a good person, or intelligent or caring. It's not a judgement so much as an observation. And I may be wrong perhaps your atheism does give you strength to draw on I'm just going with what you say in your posts and I'm willing to say I could be interpreting what you've written incorrectly.

[FUNKbrs]

At 5/12/03 10:32 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Either way, religion sure isn't getting a good makeover now that the number of pedophile Catholic priests numbers in the hundreds. But we've been through this before.

and thats why their called "Roman Catholics". I dont think I have to describe some of the stuff the Romans did to children, do I?

<------Protestant as a motherfucker

[karasz]

u guys all forget something...

what will you do in 40 years??? thats when most people will go to church... and even though NOW you are saying you are an athetist what happens later is unknowable...

also there are still enough religious people that will go to church and keep it moving along...

[nitroxide]

At 5/13/03 01:37 PM, karasz wrote: u guys all forget something...

what will you do in 40 years??? thats when most people will go to church... and even though NOW you are saying you are an athetist what happens later is unknowable...

also there are still enough religious people that will go to church and keep it moving along...

First to shih,thanks for clarifying your views on empty i understand exactly what your saying and i see your point.karasz in 40 years your right i dont know what will happen but i do know that it would take god himself to come and speak to me for me to have faith.

Church will live on by many true believers but i do say it will diminish from its current numbers.