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At 5/28/06 03:07 PM, Ovalshine wrote: Which wouldn't have happened if the leaders didn't send you to conquer their land in the first place.

You show me when I ever whent ther to conquer thier land. Last I check Iraq is still it's own country, WE ARE NOT CONQUERING IRAQ! I'm so sick of hearing that bull shit. This is more than Bush, 9/11, oil, or terrorism. This has ben building since the last Gulf war ended. I've ben deployed and let me tell you I have never unlawfully killed anybody. I've never killed anybody pereod. So fuck every one of you who called me a murderer just for serving in MY millitary. If you don't want to live in a country where ther are soldiers then leave. I bet you can all build a nice eutopian society where people will just live in harmony and never fight. Let me know how that works out.

Killing between soldiers isn't murder, because if you hadn't killed them they'd hvae killed you, killing civilians is a different story.

Also, what right have you to call people who are abroad and fighting a war murderers? They have to kill, or else they'll die. You are deffinetely not one to judge them, because if you were there, you'd either start crying for your mommy and pokemon games, or you'd fight back. Though I'm pretty sure you'd just cry for your mommy.

At 5/22/06 12:53 PM, HogWashSoup wrote: unless it is for self defence, it is murder if you kill someone, even in war.

all these soldiers who kill in iraq come home as murderers, not heros.

"hey i killed about 20 iraqie soldiers" < murderer

go pee!

it is self defense, in a war both side have guns, its not only us attacking, its kill or be killed.

from a legal standpoint it isn't murder as it is not an unlawful killing. I can't fully remember the common deffinition of murder by Edmund Coke but i think it was "the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought in queen/kings peace"

what he meant by the queens/kings peace part is when there is no war. that doesnt mean that if there is a war you can kill anyone but if you are participating in a conflict you are obliged to kill the enemy so the killing is not unlawful. therefore from a legal standpoint no murder has been commited.

If I killed 10 people in a day right now I'd get put away for the rest of my life, do it on a battle field and they'd give me a medal :)

Soldiers are murderers is a terrible statement to make. Not because it isn't true, the topic of which is debatable, but is completely touching on a topic that doesn't matter so much as, War was the Worst Invention Ever.

Did you know in the Vietnam war American soldiers fired 50,000 to 100,000 bullets for every 1 enemy death.

Yes I totally agree.
If an Iraqi killed an American soldier, the Iraqi would be called a murderer in the US...
So logically, if an American soldier kills and Iraqi, then in Iraq, he is a murderer.
Because Murder is a global concept, we have to acknowledge both sides of the argument and it turns out that both are equally as vicious in their own perspective and as such, both cases are murder (in the Biblical sense at least).

It's like New York street gangs really... If two gangs have a fight over an area of land and they kill each other, then by the state of NY, those responsible for the deaths are murderers; it doesn't matter what their motives where or from which gang's perspective we're looking at this... Under the greater power, they are Murderers because they murdered people.

The same applies to soldiers... It's just played at a higher level, that's all.
It's simple, if you kill a human being, you have committed murder because you don't have the right to take away someone else's life. Christians are probably very hypocritical on the issue; they like to send their soldiers to war, but by doing so they completely neglect what their religion is all about! The Bible says "though salt not kill," now, that's how far the description went, there are no conditions set under which we are allowed to kill a human unless directly instructed so by God (which is a bit old-testament-ish)... So yeah.

At 5/28/06 03:07 PM, AbstractVagabond wrote: Which wouldn't have happened if the leaders didn't send you to conquer their land in the first place. The iraqi shot at you because your side drew first blood. You need to remember that important piece of info.

Actually, Saddam dew first blood when he killed his own people.

At 5/11/07 08:43 PM, Alphabit wrote: Yes I totally agree.

Haha, I didn't know you were that stupid.

At 5/11/07 09:03 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 5/11/07 08:49 PM, LordJaric wrote:
Actually, Saddam drew first blood when he killed his own people.

correction, anybody who opposed him and the Kurds

Which were people in his country. So there is no correction to be made.

At 5/11/07 07:33 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: im joining the marines Ive already signed up and everything.

Semper fidelis.

As someone already mentioned, murder is defined as the illegal killing of a person. Since damn near all military personal are cleared and authorized to use lethal force in certain situations, I find the equation of killing is always equal to murder abrasive.

What the fuck do you know of killing, topic starter?

At 5/11/07 09:21 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: ahh but its a ethnic in specific and minority otherwise he left the general population alone.

They were still his own people.

At 5/11/07 09:30 PM, LordJaric wrote:

At 5/11/07 09:21 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: ahh but its a ethnic in specific and minority otherwise he left the general population alone.

They were still his own people.

Not in the complete sense of the word that you seem to want to drive home.

The kurds never approved the iron fist totalitarian tactics Saddam used to placate "his people". The thing is, "his people" were the Baathists and their sympathizers.

Gassing your own people implies they aren't your people anymore. ESPECIALLY WHEN HE GASSED THEM FOR POLITICAL DISSENT.

All well, he still drew first blood.

mess with the best, die like the rest

At 5/11/07 08:56 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 5/11/07 08:43 PM, Alphabit wrote: Yes I totally agree.

Haha, I didn't know you were that stupid.

I didn't know you were that immature.
Seriously, you can't stop arguing with everything I say... It doesn't matter what I say, you'll disagree no matter what.

You don't even have an opinion on anything, you just follow the majority because you're a suck up.

At 5/12/07 12:27 AM, Alphabit wrote:

You don't even have an opinion on anything, you just follow the majority because you're a suck up.

Do you know how stupid you sound right now?

Majority of US: Iraq-Bad idea

Me: Iraq-not bad idea.

Haha, c'mon terrorist sympathizer! You can do better.

Hey Begoner you do my job for a week and see what happens and see how you feel about all this. Here say something against this. One I am a U.S. Army soldier. I am in the Infantry. You know why ass-clown because of my poor education I could not do anything else. Do you know what the Infantry is you frigin turd. We get paid to fight that is all. You know what is funny do you think that me or most of the military like war or what?? Oh by the way when you are come to Iraq with me I have a deal for you. You and I can go out on a potrol with some of the other guys from my unit. Well the ones that are still alive and that have survived about 30 IED's a month. You can go out with us and get hit by a IED its fun you know. Then when the gunner standing in the truck falles into your lap dead we will see how you feel. Or how about you tell all that crap you belive to his parents as you give them a flag at his funeral and watch them crying for five hours.

You know what Begoner here is a good one for you I knew this kid. http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/kdyoungblood .htm

Read that fucker and you will see the truth behind what the fuck is going on there. WHY WE KILL FOR THE PAYCHECK. WE GET PAID TO PUT OUR LIVES ON THE LINE EVERYDAY. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING!!!!! To everyone eles I am sorry for all that. Back to you Begoner you need to get your shit right. The army pays thousands of people to do one thing. Do you have any idea of what that is? I don't think you do at all. If you did you would not say half of what you do. We get paid to get in front on a bullet. We are paid to do what others don't want to do.

When you deside to get off your high horse and look at the world around you there is one truth you might notice. Peace does not come without war. War does not just happen. War has been a part of life always. Be it a small fight between two people. Or on a grand scale like OIF or OEF. Or to a greater scale WWII. Then and only then will you relize what most have that killing is a part of life. I have seen more people die then I care to remember. I have killed people and you know what I will always remember that for the rest of my life. I have a fiance and daughter that know that to. Why do you ask well lets see. I have to wake up in the middle of the night with nightmares about it for months after I come home from Iraq. Do you know what it is like to relive being in a war over and over. I walk down a street and if a car back fires or something falls over the wrong way and makes a loud bang I hide under something because I think it is a bomb or a IED. I don't think you know what that is like.

As far as this whole thing are soldiers murderers. I will admit some are not every soldier has done the right thing but I know a couple thousand that do it because they are ordered to or out if deffence. So the army as a whole can not be held accountable for those small few. Anyway I am done holding everyone up. You need to relize there are alot of people here you do there job and don't like it. There are alot that even hate killing but it is a part of life. It is done as protection for the man or women to the left and right of you. I am out of here I am just going to get more pissed off.

P.S. to everyone I am sorry for how long this post is. I don't write this much alot just somethings on this forum set my off. I wish you all the best and take care. Begoner get a life and get off that Biassed high horse you are now.

Whoa. That was chilling...

I mean, I still don't support the war in any way, but soldiers are in no way murderers, they're peacekeepers.

Support the Troops, Not the Army is what I always say :)

it is pretty late right now ,so I am going to keep it short the topic starter HogWashSoup is so completely wrong , he is in every sense of the word a TROLL. there is not a word strong enough that I could use to say what I think of him and any person who calls myself and any soldier who does his job a murderer.

A soldier is so much more than a person trained to shoot a Gun, We are Fathers, Brothers, and sisters, Teachers, Doctors , if you really look at it and it all starts with the civilian who castes a VOTE. You elected the politician who gave us our orders.

Iraq is so Complex unless you have been there you will never fully understand what it is like. everyday our soldiers make decisions ,and come in contact with Iraqi people and help them, we leave a impact on them that will last, we show them that the western world is truly a great society, and not a people of Satin as the truly MURDEROUS ISLAMIC EXTREEMIST ORGANASATIONS want them to believe.

HogWashSoup, and Begoner and all the people to stupid to give our troops the respect and honer, they deserve , are the true murders, they are Killing a Idea, that of hope and faith , they are no better than the sick protester that picket a our Fallen brother's and sister's funeral. the people that have given their lives are hero's they died for the person next to them, they are courageous, and will be missed. you people who try and take the only thing the dead have left , are sick and vile human beings. I truly wish you all to have Nightmares ...

people die in war, whether you like it or not, and there will never be world peace as long as the human race is free to their own opinions, so calling murder for someone fighting in a war is like telling Bill Clinton not to lie...

You better thank the soldiers that go to a far away land and murder on your behalf. So you aren't the one that has to go though that trauma.

So you don't have to wake up a million miles from home, pick up a gun, and kill another human being.

My grandfather had occasional night terrors up until the final days before he died, some 20 years after the war.

The majority of them don't go to war because "killing people is fun".

At 5/22/06 12:53 PM, HogWashSoup wrote: unless it is for self defence, it is murder if you kill someone, even in war.

all these soldiers who kill in iraq come home as murderers, not heros.

"hey i killed about 20 iraqie soldiers" < murderer

go pee!

Its not their fault, most of them are just told to kill. They are lied to and told that the iraqi people are terrorists ect and are ordered to gun down anyone they feel is a "threat". You have to keep inmind the average soldier barley has a high-school education and are usualyl from rural places and forwhatever reason are there because they have to be.

its like the old saying goes "The few, the proud, the bottom 10% of their class... The Marines"

At 5/13/07 05:29 PM, SuperKooter wrote:

Its not their fault, most of them are just told to kill. They are lied to and told that the iraqi people are terrorists ect and are ordered to gun down anyone they feel is a "threat". You have to keep inmind the average soldier barley has a high-school education and are usualyl from rural places and forwhatever reason are there because they have to be.

what time period do you live in?
honestly, rural soldiers? that's a new one...
i don't think farmers even have the education to join the military....

(no offense to any farmers on ng [and i know there's at least one])