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This isn't an "I HATE CHRISTIANITY" thread, but more of a discussion on a central flaw I find with any monotheistic religion: You cannot have an All Powerful God without him/her being hella evil. Here's why: Why do we have evil? If I were God, I would've created a world rid of evil. Why do we have evil? Don't tell me it's Satan's fault, because if Satan can cause shit in God's world, then God isn't all powerful. Either he's not all powerful, or is one seriously fucked up deity.

What WOULD make sense is if Satan and God were the same person. Suppose Satan is really God's darker side, and the battles between Satan and God were really just God just fighting his darker impulses? There, if that were the case, then Christianity would be so much better, because instead of it being Us (Good) vs. Them (Bad), it would be Us (good) vs. Us (Bad), or a war against our dark impulses instead of someone else. One problem I find in Islam and Christianity is that a lot of their philosophy is about making others "good", instead of making our own behaviour as saintly as possible.

Asatru (the religion of the ancient Nordic ppls) avoids this flaw, as the gods aren't all powerful, and fall victim to Loki at times. Hence, evil in this world. However, this isn't about Odin or Loki or Thor or Freye or the Jotun. This is about the ethical and conceptual problem with Christianity: Either God's seriously fucked up, or there's a giant hole in christianity.

ok i will soon start a hinduism problem thread

At 5/9/06 12:59 AM, -Thestalos- wrote: ok i will soon start a hinduism problem thread

That's relevant, how? I didn't mention Hinduism.

shouldnt all ths threads be in politics

Wow. Lots of atheism VS Christianity threads going around in these past 30 minutes.

I'm gonan ead through this properly later, but something caught my eye...

God and Satan = the same being.

Isn't that what you see in the "Amon" manga???

At 5/9/06 01:01 AM, -Thestalos- wrote: shouldnt all ths threads be in politics

Politics<---------------------------------
---------->religion. Politics deals with natural problems, Religion deals with the supernatural.

Because we ovbiously needed another topic tonight about Religion/Christianity/Atheism.
The other ones just werent enough and could no way be slightly related to this one.

At 5/9/06 01:02 AM, LinkSilvermane wrote: Wow. Lots of atheism VS Christianity threads going around in these past 30 minutes.

This isn't atheism VS christianity. I didn't mention Athiesm. It's a christianity thread.

I'm gonan read through this properly later, but something caught my eye...

God and Satan = the same being.

Isn't that what you see in the "Amon" manga???

I don't read Manga. I hate anime. If so, the creator is intelligent. I'm just saying that's the best way to erase the conceptual hole in christianity.

At 5/9/06 01:01 AM, -Thestalos- wrote: shouldnt all ths threads be in politics

only if you're george bush.

I will litteraly put $1.00 (U.S.) into your account if no one comes in here saying "OFMGZ! THATS WHY ITS CALLEDS CFAITH!."

I never really thought about it that way.

think about it..

its called balance . there has to be evil for there to be any good at all, if everything were "good" there would be no concept of good or evil, just normalcy. Plus, ever heard of Satan?

At 5/9/06 01:12 AM, LoBoSeXuaL wrote: think about it..

its called balance . there has to be evil for there to be any good at all, if everything were "good" there would be no concept of good or evil, just normalcy. Plus, ever heard of Satan?

the all powerful god couldn't destroyed satan, for he is all powerful, yet he didn't.

Also, what's wrong with normalcy when there is no evil?

At 5/9/06 01:08 AM, darknezz1 wrote: I will litteraly put $1.00 (U.S.) into your account if no one comes in here saying "OFMGZ! THATS WHY ITS CALLEDS CFAITH!."

Grimtheghoul@msn.com

I never really thought about it that way.

Well, I think about stuff. And I got to thinking, the best judge of a religion is not how it deals with good, because any schmuck can tell you that, but why there is evil in the world.

I think a lot of people don't get it, and reject the common answer.

Earth is not the home of people. It was pretty well said in Constantine. God and the Devil had a wagor over the souls of humans. God gave humans the right to choose to believe or not. Those who believe, he gets the souls. Those who do not, Satan gets them. It's pretty damn simple. God couldn't make a perfect world, or a terrible one. It needs to have plus's and negative's. Otherwise, you can't have a fair judgement given from the humans. Heaven is the all-good and Hell is the all-bad. Earth is just sort of the luke-warm location where God and the Devil play their game.

At 5/9/06 01:12 AM, LoBoSeXuaL wrote: think about it..

its called balance . there has to be evil for there to be any good at all, if everything were "good" there would be no concept of good or evil, just normalcy. Plus, ever heard of Satan?

He wouldn't be all powerful if he couldn't vanquish the prince of lies. He must be not all powerful. Either that, or he let Satan live, and since Satan is pure evil, then that constitutes an act of evil, so God must be either evil, or not all powerful. You haven't answered my question.

At 5/9/06 01:29 AM, KupaMan wrote: I think a lot of people don't get it, and reject the common answer.

Earth is not the home of people. It was pretty well said in Constantine. God and the Devil had a wagor over the souls of humans. God gave humans the right to choose to believe or not. Those who believe, he gets the souls. Those who do not, Satan gets them. It's pretty damn simple. God couldn't make a perfect world, or a terrible one. It needs to have plus's and negative's. Otherwise, you can't have a fair judgement given from the humans. Heaven is the all-good and Hell is the all-bad. Earth is just sort of the luke-warm location where God and the Devil play their game.

Constatine is not absolute unless you prove it.

god, being all powerful, could've won everyone over to the good side without breaking any rules of the bet. Don't ask me how, I'm not all powerful.

yet he didn't.

God plays games with people's fates?

Does that sound like a very nice god to you?

At 5/9/06 01:29 AM, KupaMan wrote: I think a lot of people don't get it, and reject the common answer.

Earth is not the home of people. It was pretty well said in Constantine. God and the Devil had a wagor over the souls of humans. God gave humans the right to choose to believe or not. Those who believe, he gets the souls. Those who do not, Satan gets them. It's pretty damn simple. God couldn't make a perfect world, or a terrible one. It needs to have plus's and negative's. Otherwise, you can't have a fair judgement given from the humans. Heaven is the all-good and Hell is the all-bad. Earth is just sort of the luke-warm location where God and the Devil play their game.

But why the hell would Satan exist if god is all powerful? If god is all powerful, then he would've put a cap in Satan's ass a LONG time ago. Hell, Satan would've never existed. If he wants to "test" humans, and put them through the cruel game of having to choose between evil and good, he's fucked up. Hell, if I were god, I wouldn'tve created evil at all. I would've created an all-good universe. I would've made heaven everywhere, where people could not do acts of evil.

great point ghoul, but i do agree with them about normalcy. it would be difficult to enjoy life if there were not ups and downs. im not saying anyone was right, i just thought that was a good counter argument.

oh, and kupaman, arent you hinking of room temperature? i thought lukewarm was still hot.

Well I could sit here all night and type out and quote all of Christianitys beliefs about the creation of evil, but personally, I think the bibles a load of shit. So it's all down to personal perspective on the matter. I believe God gave man free will, and in doing so, gave man the option to choose good or evil; We ourselves create evil with our defiant nature. I don't feel like typing anymore. I'm tired.

This is where choice and love come into play.

God wants us to lobe Him of our free will.
If there were no choice, we would be drones and unable to truly love.

At 5/9/06 12:58 AM, The_Ghoul wrote: This isn't an "I HATE CHRISTIANITY" thread, but more of a discussion on a central flaw I find with any monotheistic religion: You cannot have an All Powerful God without him/her being hella evil. Here's why: Why do we have evil? If I were God, I would've created a world rid of evil. Why do we have evil? Don't tell me it's Satan's fault, because if Satan can cause shit in God's world, then God isn't all powerful. Either he's not all powerful, or is one seriously fucked up deity.

You will like this community:

http://www.freethought-fellowship.org

They're an offshoot of the former Universist Movement, a place filled with people somewhat like you.

Come on! where are all the Christians? :(

Without God, good and evil do not exist.
Without God, morality is an opinion. the concept of human rights is irrelevant.

think of evil as a void. A void (or a hole) can only exist inside of something (like clothes for example)

So let's go about it like this:

clothes = good
hole in clothes = evil
no clothes = no evil
no clothes = naked

the other big one is "if God were all Good/all powerful/all loving he would destroy evil....
evil exists. Therefore, God isn't all Powerful. Not the way you'd expect Him to be anyway.

Evil is the absence of GOOD, which only comes from God. the state of "Evil" is a rejection of Good, which is evil in itself. The false assumption is that God would DEFEAT evil or OVERCOME.

God in his all Goodness allows existence for everyone to continue, as existence is Good. God stated that his name is "I AM" which means EXIST, so all existence is a product of God, outside of God there is nothing.

The state of existence varies, heaven / hell, but the existence is still Good. So evil can only be Good in one way... that the POSSIBILITY to choose evil exists, the choice of evil is evil. but the possibility to choose is not evil.

Patrick :)

Patrick, you totally confused me. I think it'simple: God is pure and good, and evil was let into the world by Adam's temptation. God didn't want this to happen (even though he knew it would because he's all-knowing), but He let it happen because he doesn't want everyone to be like a robot and have to follow Him. He wants us to choose. Unfortunetly for the human race, Adam and Eve made the wrong choice, and evil is now allowed in the world. God won't destory the evil (not yet, at least) because he wants us to choose for ourselves who we'll follow. Until the day comes he destroys Satan and his followers, we have a choice and evil will exsist.

Another thread about religion.....great.

"I'm going to slice my wrists along the vein now to see if there is god."
-jellofan7's last words

At 5/9/06 12:58 AM, The_Ghoul wrote: This isn't an "I HATE CHRISTIANITY" thread, but more of a discussion on a central flaw I find with any monotheistic religion: You cannot have an All Powerful God without him/her being hella evil. Here's why: Why do we have evil?

You're right. Guess what? Doesn't matter. They don't listen.

At 5/10/06 01:27 AM, Cajunspirit wrote: This is where choice and love come into play.

God wants us to lobe Him of our free will.
If there were no choice, we would be drones and unable to truly love.

Absolutley. If there were no evil at all, we would always make the right choice and thus would have no free will.

Umm yeah... im not a religion... I guess you could say im atheist.

At 6/21/06 12:55 AM, rejected_angel wrote: Umm yeah... im not a religion... I guess you could say im atheist.

Not quite, Atheists don't believe in a god or gods, that is different from not being religious.

You also get agnostics.

Two simple words:

Fuck religion.

Simple but true.