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At 6/14/01 02:22 PM, GameboyCC wrote:

At 6/14/01 01:01 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote:

At 6/14/01 12:50 PM, GameboyCC wrote:

At 6/14/01 12:20 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote: of course I do! Just not when their idiots like you. America Doesn't have a set language, And assimilating people into one culture isn't american, it's nazi, so have fun with your little nazi buddies, But I'm in support of the constitution.

English is the language that all trade and business is done in.

Alright that's great, So let's go tell the croatian seeking refuge from a war torn country where just going outside your house deams you to danger of death, that he has to leave the sweat shop where he works for 10 cents a day becuase Nike corperation only deals with english speakers.

I'm assuming that this little senario takes place in Croatia. In that case, the Nike corperation would need to have employees/translaters with knowledge of Croation dialects.

If I'm just being a complete dumbass, and this really takes place in America, then I feel that if the refugee wanted to apply for citizenship, s/he would need to be instructed in English. S/He should at least have a speaking knowledge of English. But as far as sweatshops go, if this person knows enough English, that option can be avoided. They can save up and get and education, and a good job.

yah that's right that is how it works in suburban america... but guess what, that's not where everyone lives. The american dream that if you work hard and study is FALSE. There are thousands of people that work 16 hour work loads in ONE day and still are in poverty. Sure if they were a citizen they might apply for welfare but sence they can't speak english we'll just let them suffer till there green card expires and we kick them out. Most of the time they don't have the time to learn a new language. Just becuase your language is english, doesn't mean all americans should have to speak it!

Hey Anarchy Penguin:

I don't find anything wrong with helping people in need. I do agree that yes, there are many people who work 16 hour days and still live in poverty. This is a problem the United States refuses to look at. They are so concerned with themselves and their family, that they don't care about the rest of the people that they are supposed to be representing. People in Croatia work in sweatshops because their government refuses to take action. They take national funds and dump them into the military or weapons research and development. When you donate money to charities for 3rd world countries, where do you think that money goes? It goes straight to the government, and they keep it for themselves. I believe that the United States needs to try and help this problem, but I have have little faith in our government.

I do agree with many of your points. I'm all for helping out people in need. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, if most people tried to help out others, the world would be a better place

One more thing: I don't see how thinking that citizens should speak the language in majority makes me a Nazi. I hate the Nazi's. I hate Adolf Hitler. How am I a Nazi? I'm not some facist punk who goes around telling people "believe this or die".

At 5/12/01 09:25 PM, kurten wrote: You have an extremely ignorant attitude, Tyrant. In Canada, you can speak French or English. In some Asian countries there are dozens of languages spoken in just a few square miles. There was a National Geographic article about a country where there were 42 national languages. That means every official document has to be translated into those languages.

Your problem stems from your inability to speak more than one language fluently. Quit blaming the immigrants for your ignorance.

Also, you will not find a single immigrant who go back to his/her home country simply because they can't speak English. This country was founded by immigrants. If they went back to their home country they would starve, and subsequently, their children would starve.

When you can tell me that you would starve a child to death because he/she can't speak English, I'll go ahead and support your English-only law.

You might try looking at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty.

I'm sick of hearing of poor people in western societies and how hard things are for them. There are the genuinely poor, and I think we should look after them.

However, there are the poor by choice. I'm talking about the people who smoke a pack a day, drink like fishes, gamble, eat fast food, buy all the latest Nike or Nintendo shit for their kids, and then whine and whine when they can't afford to pay an electricity bill or go to the doctor.

If people showed some responsibility, they'd be fine.

How else do you explain Jews coming over from the Holocaust or Asians on boats who make something of their lives? Within one generation, they're in the middle class, and their kids are at college. They're enterprising, hard working, and sensible with their money.

shorbe

Come on! I think that in order to be a member of a country, you must know how to at least speak the language good enough to where other people can understand you.

Speaking of closed minded people opening their mouths, look at yourself. If the first sttelers had spoken tha native language, we would all speak Cherokee, Iroqui or some native american language. The fact is that our cournty was founded by closed-minded bigots who felt they were better than everyone. Not much has changed.

Speaking of closed minded people opening their mouths, look at yourself. If the first sttelers had spoken tha native language, we would all speak Cherokee, Iroqui or some native american language. The fact is that our cournty was founded by closed-minded bigots who felt they were better than everyone. Not much has changed.

They didn't think their language was better, they just couldn't be buggered learning a new one, and who can blame them?

The reason why this post is so popular is because language falls under the rubic of Nationalism. nationalism leads us to believe that we have the RIGHT to impose our culture on others if they walk in "our" land; its totally emotional and irrational. I think that unless we want to continue to look like the ignorant pricks that we apper to be to the rest of the world we should learn to be bilingual, especially since we as the "natives" have the resourses in which to do this. Plus why the FUCK would you want to have a goverment that doesn't understand the language of a quarter of its pop. Just my opinion. I doubt anyone will read this post anyway and if you do fuck off about the spelling and grammer.

The main question is, "Should there be a law that says everyone has to speak English or not?" There should not a be a law saying that one must learn the language. Making a law that says that one can't speak any other language than English completely disregards the first amendment, also known as Freedom of Speech. However, I am for the idea that everyone at least knows English. There shouldn't be special accomodations made for other languages. The whole idea of America is that ethnically diverse people can come together and find some common ground to work from. If there isn't at least a common language, then how can everyone come together? If I can't speak with my neighbor, I won't be able to talk with him, to share ideas. If larger and larger groups of people insist on not learning a common language, they will promote a more divided nation. Remember the Ottoman Empire from way back when? Well, the whole reason they were weak was because they had a large group of ethnically diverse people who couldn't find a common ground. Eventually, it split into the many countries of the middle-east we have today. If all Americans can't at least talk with each other, then we may be headed in the same direction.

Actually, the Ottoman Empire split up because it was defeated in WW1. This was in large part due to T.E. Lawrence (aka Lawrence of Arabia) leading an Arabic revolt.

The middle eastern countries weren't formed until after WW2. The British betrayed the Arabs after WW1 (one of the reasons the Arabs agreed to help Lawrence was for independence) when they divided the middle east with the French, which was the starting position for WW2.

shorbe

To quote Ted Nugent
" I think we should barbed wire up around this country and give everyone else the finger."

At 7/1/01 12:25 PM, IamJacksalias wrote: To quote Ted Nugent
" I think we should barbed wire up around this country and give everyone else the finger."

Wow That sure is ignorant. Probally one of the most ignorant posts I've EVER seen.

At 7/1/01 12:25 PM, IamJacksalias wrote: To quote Ted Nugent
" I think we should barbed wire up around this country and give everyone else the finger."

If you think that's a patriotic statement... you're wrong. Both you and Ted Nugent need to fuck off.

If you think that's a patriotic statement... you're wrong. Both you and Ted Nugent need to fuck off.

In response to such a well thought statement I must say this: it can be patriotic depending on how you look at it. George Washington said we should not mettle in the affairs of foreign countries. I believe we should take care our own problems before everyone else's. How did this fit into this here? It didn't, it was simply an odd quote and I achieved the resultI wanted from it; distraction. My personal belief on the whole language subject is this: speak English or get out. Noithing pisses me off more than when I go someplace and the guy or girl that works there can't speak English well enough to string a sentence together. I wouldn't move to Germany without being able to speak German well. It's not even a common sense thing it's a common courtesy thing.

My personal belief on the whole language subject is this: speak English or get out. Noithing pisses me off more than when I go someplace and the guy or girl that works there can't speak English well enough to string a sentence together. I wouldn't move to Germany without being able to speak German well. It's not even a common sense thing it's a common courtesy thing.

I agree with the statement about moving to Germany and speaking the language. But I say this: A person can move into the US, and then learn english (perhaps within an alotted time period), or they can know enough to get by already. I'm not saying they should speak any other languages besides english, I'm just saying they should know it well enough to support themselves in the vast economy.

At 7/2/01 07:16 PM, Tyrant_Nero wrote: My personal belief on the whole language subject is this: speak English or get out. Noithing pisses me off more than when I go someplace and the guy or girl that works there can't speak English well enough to string a sentence together. I wouldn't move to Germany without being able to speak German well. It's not even a common sense thing it's a common courtesy thing.

I agree with the statement about moving to Germany and speaking the language. But I say this: A person can move into the US, and then learn english (perhaps within an alotted time period), or they can know enough to get by already. I'm not saying they should speak any other languages besides english, I'm just saying they should know it well enough to support themselves in the vast economy.

Dude, How Are you NOT GETTIGN THIS? There Is NO OFFICAL LANGUAGE OF THE U.S., Maybe It's what you speak, Maybe it's what the majority speaks, But It's Not offical, So stop trying to press what you belive on others! If you wanna do that, I suggest you get out of america ( which by the way if you haven't yet figured out is a FREE country ) and go with some nazi's or some other oppresive groups.

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Aside from that though, those who don't learn English really are doing themselves a disservice.

shorbe

At 7/5/01 09:42 AM, shorbe wrote: A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Ok maybe this quote applies to the civil war, but not in this case. Who is it that decides what we should all conform too? You? I think not! That's not america! At the time when one person decides that everyone has to conform to one ideal or practice to be american, then america is no longer.

Aside from that though, those who don't learn English really are doing themselves a disservice.

Maybe so, Maybe not, But it's not your choice, It's theirs.

Anarchy Penguin

At 7/4/01 11:02 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote:

At 7/2/01 07:16 PM, Tyrant_Nero wrote: My personal belief on the whole language subject is this: speak English or get out. Noithing pisses me off more than when I go someplace and the guy or girl that works there can't speak English well enough to string a sentence together. I wouldn't move to Germany without being able to speak German well. It's not even a common sense thing it's a common courtesy thing.

I agree with the statement about moving to Germany and speaking the language. But I say this: A person can move into the US, and then learn english (perhaps within an alotted time period), or they can know enough to get by already. I'm not saying they should speak any other languages besides english, I'm just saying they should know it well enough to support themselves in the vast economy.

Dude, How Are you NOT GETTIGN THIS? There Is NO OFFICAL LANGUAGE OF THE U.S., Maybe It's what you speak, Maybe it's what the majority speaks, But It's Not offical, So stop trying to press what you belive on others! If you wanna do that, I suggest you get out of america ( which by the way if you haven't yet figured out is a FREE country ) and go with some nazi's or some other oppresive groups.

I understand your point. But what you're saying is ridiculous. You're saying that anyone can speak any language they want to (which they can, i don't care), but you say they say they don't have to know english. I don't know about you, but I don't think thats too much to ask for. You arent going to go to Germany and live, and not know German. I think the person who isn't getting it is YOU. The land of the free it may be, but a foreigner would be doing us and themselves a big favor by knowing english if they came to this country to live. But I guess thats too much to ask to someone like you.

At 7/5/01 03:37 PM, Tyrant_Nero wrote:

At 7/4/01 11:02 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote:

At 7/2/01 07:16 PM, Tyrant_Nero wrote: My personal belief on the whole language subject is this: speak English or get out. Noithing pisses me off more than when I go someplace and the guy or girl that works there can't speak English well enough to string a sentence together. I wouldn't move to Germany without being able to speak German well. It's not even a common sense thing it's a common courtesy thing.

I agree with the statement about moving to Germany and speaking the language. But I say this: A person can move into the US, and then learn english (perhaps within an alotted time period), or they can know enough to get by already. I'm not saying they should speak any other languages besides english, I'm just saying they should know it well enough to support themselves in the vast economy.

Dude, How Are you NOT GETTIGN THIS? There Is NO OFFICAL LANGUAGE OF THE U.S., Maybe It's what you speak, Maybe it's what the majority speaks, But It's Not offical, So stop trying to press what you belive on others! If you wanna do that, I suggest you get out of america ( which by the way if you haven't yet figured out is a FREE country ) and go with some nazi's or some other oppresive groups.

I understand your point. But what you're saying is ridiculous. You're saying that anyone can speak any language they want to (which they can, i don't care), but you say they say they don't have to know english. I don't know about you, but I don't think thats too much to ask for. You arent going to go to Germany and live, and not know German. I think the person who isn't getting it is YOU. The land of the free it may be, but a foreigner would be doing us and themselves a big favor by knowing english if they came to this country to live. But I guess thats too much to ask to someone like you.

Your point makes no sense. IT would If there was a Offical Langauge of america, but THERE ISN'T! Ok so in germany there is, therefore you should learn german if you move to germany. In england the offical language is English, so you should learn english. In america THERE IS NO OFFICAL LANAGUE. It's the same as established governments. If you move to isreal, chances are your probally jewish, but if you move to America you don't have to convert to christianity just becuase that's the most common relgion. Just like English Is the most common lanague.

Your point makes no sense. IT would If there was a Offical Langauge of america, but THERE ISN'T! Ok so in germany there is, therefore you should learn german if you move to germany. In england the offical language is English, so you should learn english. In america THERE IS NO OFFICAL LANAGUE. It's the same as established governments. If you move to isreal, chances are your probally jewish, but if you move to America you don't have to convert to christianity just becuase that's the most common relgion. Just like English Is the most common lanague.

Alright then. I'll go into your fantasy world. In your fantasy world, everyone speaks whatever language they want to. I'm hungry, so I think i'll get something to eat. I cant place my order, because the cashier doesnt speak my language. In fact, nobody can get anything done, because no one understands eachother. Its a total mess, and there is no order. Tsk tsk... if there was only some way we could all place our thoughts and opinions in a clearly stated manner... Maybe if we all spoke the same language, we could get things done...
What a silly idea though!

At 7/5/01 09:45 PM, Tyrant_Nero wrote:

Your point makes no sense. IT would If there was a Offical Langauge of america, but THERE ISN'T! Ok so in germany there is, therefore you should learn german if you move to germany. In england the offical language is English, so you should learn english. In america THERE IS NO OFFICAL LANAGUE. It's the same as established governments. If you move to isreal, chances are your probally jewish, but if you move to America you don't have to convert to christianity just becuase that's the most common relgion. Just like English Is the most common lanague.

Alright then. I'll go into your fantasy world. In your fantasy world, everyone speaks whatever language they want to.

Ok this *fantasy world* as you call it, Is present day america.

I'm hungry, so I think i'll get something to eat. I cant place my order, because the cashier doesnt speak my language. In fact, nobody can get anything done, because no one understands eachother. Its a total mess, and there is no order. Tsk tsk... if there was only some way we could all place our thoughts and opinions in a clearly stated manner... Maybe if we all spoke the same language, we could get things done...

What a silly idea though!

And acually, I live very close to miami and go there often, Many places, No one speaks english, Just spanish and a few haitians speak french ( very few ) and acually I can get things done easily. But that's besides the point. The point is It's wrong to enforce your opinons on others. That's not american IF you want to enforce your opinons... i would suggest you go to the middle east, possibly join a nazi cult or something of that nature.

And acually, I live very close to miami and go there often, Many places, No one speaks english, Just spanish and a few haitians speak french ( very few ) and acually I can get things done easily. But that's besides the point.

And how exactly do you do that?

The point is It's wrong to enforce your opinons on others. That's not american IF you want to enforce your opinons...

So you arent american for enforcing your opinion on me, correct?

i would suggest you go to the middle east, possibly join a nazi cult or something of that nature.

I'm not sure, but I don't think there are any Nazi's the Middle East... You seem to have some obsession with Nazis... but I dont think I will join a cult, seeing as how my opinions dont make me a nazi.

At 7/5/01 10:07 PM, Tyrant_Nero wrote:

And acually, I live very close to miami and go there often, Many places, No one speaks english, Just spanish and a few haitians speak french ( very few ) and acually I can get things done easily. But that's besides the point.

And how exactly do you do that?

Easy if i went into a restraunt, A deli or such I would point to what I wanted. sence all american currency is the same it was easy to pay. At a sit down restraunt food is pretty much the same as it is.
But thats not the point, It's still wrong to enforce your opinons.

The point is It's wrong to enforce your opinons on others. That's not american IF you want to enforce your opinons...

So you arent american for enforcing your opinion on me, correct?

No that's not correct. becuase I never enforced your opinons. You seem to be the only one doing that by trying to make everyone speak your language. I however am simply expressing myself on a BBS. Good job trying to out wit me, but maybe you should grasp a simple understanding of the english lanague you so far have tryed to enforce on people you don't even know.

i would suggest you go to the middle east, possibly join a nazi cult or something of that nature.

I'm not sure, but I don't think there are any Nazi's the Middle East... You seem to have some obsession with Nazis... but I dont think I will join a cult, seeing as how my opinions dont make me a nazi.

No you see I was saying go to the middle east, or join a nazi cult. I was just giving options. As you obviously have a complete disregard for american ideals of liberty and freedom. IE freedom of speach which you have twisted to freedom of speach as long as you speak the language that tyrant nero does. I was just trying to help you find like minded people, IE the NAZIs.

Anarchy: I'm not saying anyone should have to conform. If you don't conform though, you should expect a certain amount of flack from those who do.

Likewise, I'm not saying everyone should have to speak English per se. If they want to fuck up, that's their problem. For any public document or anything that may affect me, I want to know where I stand. English should be required. It creates major problems in the legal, medical and other systems if people can't nderstand each other. Where communication breaks down, things go wrong. Imagine if everyone could choose their own road rules, or even on which side they wished to drive (although, some already do...hehe).

If people want to speak another language amongst themselves, that's fine, albeit rude. On the other hand, if I have to deal with someone in a hospital or wherever, I expect to be able to communicate with them. If some other language were spoken as the majority, then it would make sense to have that as the official language, and then I'd tow the line. If I go overseas, I don't expect other people to speak English. It's nice if they do, but as the saying goes "when in Rome..."

shorbe

ahh fun, shorbe the only one I fear one the political BBS, becuase he acually knows the facts. And again I'll take his arguement peice meal :)

Anarchy: I'm not saying anyone should have to conform. If you don't conform though, you should expect a certain amount of flack from those who do.

That's not american. The basis of america is strength through diversity. We allow diversity to protect ourselves from persecution. Just like religious persecution as an example i used before. Essenitally it's the same thing, it's like saying, well you may practice your religion but there will be certain "flack" for it.

Likewise, I'm not saying everyone should have to speak English per se. If they want to fuck up, that's their problem.

Ok right there, Saying that if they want to fuck up that's their problem. That's wrong. Saying that becuase they chose to live their live in a way diffrent then you chose, then they live it in a fucked up way, that's wrong.

For any public document or anything that may affect me, I want to know where I stand. English should be required. It creates major problems in the legal, medical and other systems if people can't nderstand each other.

In the legal system, we have translators, and in the medical world yes it is a pain. There are many things that we could make easier if we took away freedoms. But that's not america.

Where communication breaks down, things go wrong. Imagine if everyone could choose their own road rules, or even on which side they wished to drive (although, some already do...hehe).

K, see what your saying but the laws are the same for everyone and still have to apply for the same license, but obviously you were speaking medaphorically, becuase your shorbe... See the thing is, that We are guarenteed the right to free speach under the first amendment. Theres not " Driving amendment " so that example doesn't exactly parellel.

If people want to speak another language amongst themselves, that's fine, albeit rude.

How's it rude to practice their own life styles?

On the other hand, if I have to deal with someone in a hospital or wherever, I expect to be able to communicate with them. If some other language were spoken as the majority, then it would make sense to have that as the official language, and then I'd tow the line. If I go overseas, I don't expect other people to speak English. It's nice if they do, but as the saying goes "when in Rome..."

When in rome do as the ... italians? hehe right but Let's review, Rome... Ruled by senate until overthrown by dictators... America, democracy. :) bit diffrent there buster boy.

Anarchy penguin

Anarchy: I'm not saying anyone should have to conform. If you don't conform though, you should expect a certain amount of flack from those who do.

That's not american. The basis of america is strength through diversity. We allow diversity to protect ourselves from persecution. Just like religious persecution as an example i used before. Essenitally it's the same thing, it's like saying, well you may practice your religion but there will be certain "flack" for it.

Strength through diversity yes, but how are we able to communicate or trade civilized ideas between eachother if we dont understand eachother? I don't think we'd be very strong if we didnt understand what we were saying to eachother. We'd be diverse, but we wouldn't know how to use our strengths.

Likewise, I'm not saying everyone should have to speak English per se. If they want to fuck up, that's their problem.

Ok right there, Saying that if they want to fuck up that's their problem. That's wrong. Saying that becuase they chose to live their live in a way diffrent then you chose, then they live it in a fucked up way, that's wrong.

It may be wrong, but thats the way it goes. You don't know english, then you will more than likely not get a well paying job, and will be unable to support yourself. In a sense, they are fucking up if they come to this country, expecting a good job and pay, if they didnt know english. It just doesnt happen.

For any public document or anything that may affect me, I want to know where I stand. English should be required. It creates major problems in the legal, medical and other systems if people can't nderstand each other.

In the legal system, we have translators, and in the medical world yes it is a pain. There are many things that we could make easier if we took away freedoms. But that's not america.

But you see, it doesnt look good on any client that is an american citizen to have to have a translator during a trial. The fact that to become a legal citizen you have to know english anyways, would discredit that certain person. It just wouldnt look good on them.

Where communication breaks down, things go wrong. Imagine if everyone could choose their own road rules, or even on which side they wished to drive (although, some already do...hehe).

K, see what your saying but the laws are the same for everyone and still have to apply for the same license, but obviously you were speaking medaphorically, becuase your shorbe... See the thing is, that We are guarenteed the right to free speach under the first amendment. Theres not " Driving amendment " so that example doesn't exactly parellel.

Note that america is the only country in which people drive on the right side of the road, instead of the left, am i correct? Or is it the other way around... I dont remember.

If people want to speak another language amongst themselves, that's fine, albeit rude.

How's it rude to practice their own life styles?

I dont find it rude when people talk amongst themselves in a different language, i find nothing wrong with it.

On the other hand, if I have to deal with someone in a hospital or wherever, I expect to be able to communicate with them. If some other language were spoken as the majority, then it would make sense to have that as the official language, and then I'd tow the line. If I go overseas, I don't expect other people to speak English. It's nice if they do, but as the saying goes "when in Rome..."

When in rome do as the ... italians? hehe right but Let's review, Rome... Ruled by senate until overthrown by dictators... America, democracy. :) bit diffrent there buster boy.

I totally agree with shorbe's statement, so there isn't much to say here...

That's not american. The basis of america is strength through diversity. We allow diversity to protect ourselves from persecution. Just like religious persecution as an example i used before. Essenitally it's the same thing, it's like saying, well you may practice your religion but there will be certain "flack" for it.

Strength through diversity yes, but how are we able to communicate or trade civilized ideas between eachother if we dont understand eachother? I don't think we'd be very strong if we didnt understand what we were saying to eachother. We'd be diverse, but we wouldn't know how to use our strengths.

Either find electronic translators, use a translating service or there are other ways of communication than spoken word. But as I said before, That is a policy and my arguement is driving more as a moral objective.

Ok right there, Saying that if they want to fuck up that's their problem. That's wrong. Saying that becuase they chose to live their live in a way diffrent then you chose, then they live it in a fucked up way, that's wrong.

It may be wrong, but thats the way it goes. You don't know english, then you will more than likely not get a well paying job, and will be unable to support yourself. In a sense, they are fucking up if they come to this country, expecting a good job and pay, if they didnt know english. It just doesnt happen.

Here I strongly disagree. What your doing as you have before is taking your life style, and assuming that everyone wants to convert. You did this with lanaguage and now your taking as a middle class "happiness through wealth" thought. Just becuase someone does not have a CEO at a business or works 9 to 5 at some stuffy office building does not mean they've " fucked up ". Personally I don't value material things as much as my freinds, in fact much less then most I have met, but I don't consider myself to be a fuck up. It's their choice to live their life style, wether it be, continuing their traditions by their language, or making their life style if it's the tradinal path of corperate america or not.

In the legal system, we have translators, and in the medical world yes it is a pain. There are many things that we could make easier if we took away freedoms. But that's not america.

But you see, it doesnt look good on any client that is an american citizen to have to have a translator during a trial. The fact that to become a legal citizen you have to know english anyways, would discredit that certain person. It just wouldnt look good on them.

Ok, maybe it looks bad. It's a choice. We also have made choices that made us look bad, but it was OUR choice. For example, What if your boss gives you some work to do, but you want to go on vacation. In the U.S. you have the freedom to leave and not do it, you also must face the consiquences, but by saying, there are consiquences so we will make it so that you don't have the choice, in order to avoid those consiquences, is unamerican.

K, see what your saying but the laws are the same for everyone and still have to apply for the same license, but obviously you were speaking medaphorically, becuase your shorbe... See the thing is, that We are guarenteed the right to free speach under the first amendment. Theres not " Driving amendment " so that example doesn't exactly parellel.

Note that america is the only country in which people drive on the right side of the road, instead of the left, am i correct? Or is it the other way around... I dont remember.

I think it's the same in germany. Pretty much just colonized areas of England use the left side, canada, australia, south america etc...

How's it rude to practice their own life styles?

I dont find it rude when people talk amongst themselves in a different language, i find nothing wrong with it.

Then You agree with me.

On the other hand, if I have to deal with someone in a hospital or wherever, I expect to be able to communicate with them. If some other language were spoken as the majority, then it would make sense to have that as the official language, and then I'd tow the line. If I go overseas, I don't expect other people to speak English. It's nice if they do, but as the saying goes "when in Rome..."

When in rome do as the ... italians? hehe right but Let's review, Rome... Ruled by senate until overthrown by dictators... America, democracy. :) bit diffrent there buster boy.

I totally agree with shorbe's statement, so there isn't much to say here...

Well It's a bit hard to contend a statment that is contrary to mine yet says nothing so I'll just further reinforce my previous point. The quote " when in rome " Means do as the romans. Now let's apply that to america. In america do as the americans. Does that mean that if you don't speak english your not american? No, I know americans who don't speak english. That's the beauty of america, it is one of the last places in america where you don't have to conform or be assimilated to fit in. We have always allowed, even loved sometimes prosperd through diversity.

Anarchy Penguin

It may be wrong, but thats the way it goes. You don't know english, then you will more than likely not get a well paying job, and will be unable to support yourself. In a sense, they are fucking up if they come to this country, expecting a good job and pay, if they didnt know english. It just doesnt happen.

Here I strongly disagree. What your doing as you have before is taking your life style, and assuming that everyone wants to convert. You did this with lanaguage and now your taking as a middle class "happiness through wealth" thought. Just becuase someone does not have a CEO at a business or works 9 to 5 at some stuffy office building does not mean they've " fucked up ". Personally I don't value material things as much as my freinds, in fact much less then most I have met, but I don't consider myself to be a fuck up. It's their choice to live their life style, wether it be, continuing their traditions by their language, or making their life style if it's the tradinal path of corperate america or not.

I never said that 9 -5 jobs were the perfect type of employment. You're putting words in my mouth. The fact is, most non-english speaking people in america work in construction of some sort, or some other low area job. They may be happy, but they arent making much money, nor will they advance in society. At the bottom they will stay. But that's their choice.

In the legal system, we have translators, and in the medical world yes it is a pain. There are many things that we could make easier if we took away freedoms. But that's not america.

But you see, it doesnt look good on any client that is an american citizen to have to have a translator during a trial. The fact that to become a legal citizen you have to know english anyways, would discredit that certain person. It just wouldnt look good on them.

Ok, maybe it looks bad. It's a choice. We also have made choices that made us look bad, but it was OUR choice. For example, What if your boss gives you some work to do, but you want to go on vacation. In the U.S. you have the freedom to leave and not do it, you also must face the consiquences, but by saying, there are consiquences so we will make it so that you don't have the choice, in order to avoid those consiquences, is unamerican.

The fact is you cant just take a vacation. You have to plan it, and confirm it with your boss. Your analogy doesnt work, because you would have to get the go-ahead from the higher-ups, therefore if work was to be done, you would have to do it.

Non-english speaking americans don't exactly make it far in the rat-race. Knowing the language in majority would definitely boost someone's chances of getting a raise, or perhaps even ascending to a better job.

But as long as they are happy, isnt that what really matters?

I never said that 9 -5 jobs were the perfect type of employment. You're putting words in my mouth. The fact is, most non-english speaking people in america work in construction of some sort, or some other low area job. They may be happy, but they arent making much money, nor will they advance in society. At the bottom they will stay. But that's their choice.

Well, the most important thing to note there is "that's their choice." but regardless, I'll use specific examples that I know of first hand to counter what you have said. In Miami, where I have visited quite often, I know of a spanish speaking family from cuba. They speak no english except for "Hello" and " good bye." but they own 2 delis, and a bakery. The bakery is incredibly popular with locals and the delis are quite touristy. By no means is this a world wide corperate super power ( thank god ) but they live very comfortably in a lower upper class apartment by the ocean, with a cadallac ( wish you were them? hehe ).

But you see, it doesnt look good on any client that is an american citizen to have to have a translator during a trial. The fact that to become a legal citizen you have to know english anyways, would discredit that certain person. It just wouldnt look good on them.

Ok, maybe it looks bad. It's a choice. We also have made choices that made us look bad, but it was OUR choice. For example, What if your boss gives you some work to do, but you want to go on vacation. In the U.S. you have the freedom to leave and not do it, you also must face the consiquences, but by saying, there are consiquences so we will make it so that you don't have the choice, in order to avoid those consiquences, is unamerican.

The fact is you cant just take a vacation. You have to plan it, and confirm it with your boss. Your analogy doesnt work, because you would have to get the go-ahead from the higher-ups, therefore if work was to be done, you would have to do it.

Acually you could simply take a vacation. You would have to live with the consiquences, possible pay docks, maybe even being fired. But that's my point, In america, we have the choice. If we want to make a choice, IE Taking a vacation we can do that, but we have to live with the consiquences. Same with the language, If you chose NOT to speak english, you have that option but you have to live with the consiquences. By taking away that freedom just becuase you want to protect them from the consiquences is a direct violation of basic liberties of an american citizen.

Non-english speaking americans don't exactly make it far in the rat-race. Knowing the language in majority would definitely boost someone's chances of getting a raise, or perhaps even ascending to a better job.

Ok, that's true, but that's their option. Not everyone wants to join the, as you said " rat-race " and we shouldn't force it upon them.

But as long as they are happy, isnt that what really matters?

Good point. One thing we've lost with our capatalist mentality, is that wealth is only a means to happniess, not the key factor in our lifes.

At 7/6/01 07:35 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote:

I never said that 9 -5 jobs were the perfect type of employment. You're putting words in my mouth. The fact is, most non-english speaking people in america work in construction of some sort, or some other low area job. They may be happy, but they arent making much money, nor will they advance in society. At the bottom they will stay. But that's their choice.

Well, the most important thing to note there is "that's their choice." but regardless, I'll use specific examples that I know of first hand to counter what you have said. In Miami, where I have visited quite often, I know of a spanish speaking family from cuba. They speak no english except for "Hello" and " good bye." but they own 2 delis, and a bakery. The bakery is incredibly popular with locals and the delis are quite touristy. By no means is this a world wide corperate super power ( thank god ) but they live very comfortably in a lower upper class apartment by the ocean, with a cadallac ( wish you were them? hehe ).

Well i'm happy for them. They are one of the few who have been able to get past the system. Too bad the majority of people like them (IE dont speak english) dont have their own deli or business for that matter. The fact is, MOST (not all) of the non-speaking citizens are working for little pay in a dead end job (like construction). It doesnt work out for most people. And I don't wish I were them... I dont like cadillacs.

But you see, it doesnt look good on any client that is an american citizen to have to have a translator during a trial. The fact that to become a legal citizen you have to know english anyways, would discredit that certain person. It just wouldnt look good on them.

Ok, maybe it looks bad. It's a choice. We also have made choices that made us look bad, but it was OUR choice. For example, What if your boss gives you some work to do, but you want to go on vacation. In the U.S. you have the freedom to leave and not do it, you also must face the consiquences, but by saying, there are consiquences so we will make it so that you don't have the choice, in order to avoid those consiquences, is unamerican.

The fact is you cant just take a vacation. You have to plan it, and confirm it with your boss. Your analogy doesnt work, because you would have to get the go-ahead from the higher-ups, therefore if work was to be done, you would have to do it.

Acually you could simply take a vacation. You would have to live with the consiquences, possible pay docks, maybe even being fired. But that's my point, In america, we have the choice. If we want to make a choice, IE Taking a vacation we can do that, but we have to live with the consiquences. Same with the language, If you chose NOT to speak english, you have that option but you have to live with the consiquences. By taking away that freedom just becuase you want to protect them from the consiquences is a direct violation of basic liberties of an american citizen.

If they leave without permission, then they will be on a permanent vacation from their job. If someone asked for a vacation and was denined it, and took off anyways, I'm sure it'd end up in immediate termination. I've seen it happen before. They can leave if they choose, and you're right, they have to live with the consequences.

Non-english speaking americans don't exactly make it far in the rat-race. Knowing the language in majority would definitely boost someone's chances of getting a raise, or perhaps even ascending to a better job.

Ok, that's true, but that's their option. Not everyone wants to join the, as you said " rat-race " and we shouldn't force it upon them.

I consider the rat-race as all employment whatsoever. So working at burger king, or a cashier at wal mart, ect., is part of it. The most worthless job on the planet, and the most highly important job, are still part of the rat-race. So the only way to avoid it would to remain unemployed. So if they dont wish to get a job, so be it. I just hope they dont expect to recieve any sort of revenue.

But as long as they are happy, isnt that what really matters?

Good point. One thing we've lost with our capatalist mentality, is that wealth is only a means to happniess, not the key factor in our lifes.

Good point as well. Many people these days associate happiness with money... But you dont need money to be happy. Because if you arent happy with your life, what's the point?