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Well guess what. That will not stop me (or any flasher worth their salt)- you have to get used to it. Get used to people hating your shit - and even you. I will bet 90% of that hatred comes from JEALOUSY

That is true I bash movies cus im jealous of them, even if the movie is a good stick with 5 views even I say its shit because I am too impatient for flash, I am too impatient for flash to download on a 56k modem, which I dont have but a cavle modem with a work on the internet makes it feel like its a 16.6 modem and its 1000 times faster. I suck at flash and am creative but can draw on anything worth a shit. hand drawing-nope, computer drawing nope, I wish I had a notebook thing I could draw on and then my computer could fix the crappy stuff and manipulate the image with minor details added, thenm I would be a good flash artist.

At 2/1/03 09:03 AM, ElectricBlue wrote: I am so sick of hearing artists cry because they get bad scores, critical opinion is a part of ng and that is just the way it is. You might have the coolest graphics ever with sounds and everything but if your game sucks, or your movie has a shitty plot its going to get a bad score - live with it.

shut the fuck up, You will not admit you are jealous like I just did because you are a pussy hating, cock loving, homoerotic bastard who uses google pictures for gay porn, I use it for lesbian porn buddy.

Earth Crisis don't do that shit!!!!!!!!!!! man!!!!!!!
What the fuck?????// Ok now I understand but I hope you are just fucking being stupid and saying that. Dude man if you can't say something good or constructive about something -don't say it all all!!!!!!! Especially if you are an artist and know how hard it is to try and finish something. shit man!!!!!!! Just for that you will deserve ZEROS because what goes around comes around! Don't start that shit in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Viscious monkey that makes sense and I think Tom was gonna do that eventually too.

At least now that NG has a new backend coder (and as we all know the site is starting to triumphantly emerge from it's rut, and is improving and gaining newer and better features) we might see some positive changes in The Portal system :)

That;s true ever since lil Jim has been around NG has grown in leaps and bounds. Lil jim is true Jedi and I really appreciate his contrubutions.

A little off subject but I have been thinking about it. In regards to the 2 women's remarks to this post - they had a very different response, although they are artists and there are many artists that have responded. NG is missing a big part of input and contibutions from the female side of things. I can barely think of any big solo contributions by women on flash to NG so far. There is alot the flash movies with women voice actors and artists. I noticed they have a very different feel - more complete. Somehow both sexes seem to complete a more harmonial equation. I know women have just as much skill if not perhaps a bit more when it comes to the arts. Somehow still continuing with this original post, I was thinking maybe women are intimidated to contribute because they might be swamped by foaming hormonal 13 years old spewing forth garbage. For instance - * Astro Princess you say you are an art student - have you ever thought of making a flash movie? I know it might not be something you wanted to do - but lets just say you did make a movie - would you be aprehensive of uploading it? I am just wondering what you think know about that subject?

No offense RiftMaster, because I think you have a good point in what you said about non Flash artists pulling less rank- but that's a little extreme.

For example, there are some of us that are visiting the site daily and reviewing things and watching peoples' movies and perhaps playing games... and we're working on animations/games ourselves but haven't submitted anything as of yet.

There are probably a lot of people that vote who don't create things in Flash. Maybe they could if their computers weren't crappy or they had an extra crapload of money to spare.

There are probably a lot of people that vote who are afraid to put their ideas on the web- especially a place like this where it's likely, no, probable that they could be ripped off by some savvy kid who takes their awesome work to some animation company as his own. (Trust me that there are some artists here that aren't submitting, because I have writing that I don't post to the net for similar reasons!)

So is it fair to take away the system from those who've been visiting all the time they have just because they didn't upload a file?

Well I don't think so.

I agree that it sucks when someone who "doesn't even get it" has the AUDACITY to call your work "crap". Yeah this site is littered with kids that don't understand what people put into their works. I'm sure there are a lot of idiots that keep voting 0 on the same movie or game day after day. But fair to disadvantage the people that have been coming here and depositing points to have a weightier vote? No.

And I'm not even talking about this stuff for myself. My votes aren't even weighty at this point. I've been visiting for a long time, but I've just recently signed up so there's no big loss. But there have to be non-submitting members who have a lot of voting weight who have been spending hella amounts of time here. And it's really not fair to them to just up and slice their votes in half because of the rotten apples.

At 2/2/03 01:26 AM, SESSNET wrote: A little off subject but I have been thinking about it. In regards to the 2 women's remarks to this post - they had a very different response, although they are artists and there are many artists that have responded. NG is missing a big part of input and contibutions from the female side of things. I can barely think of any big solo contributions by women on flash to NG so far. There is alot the flash movies with women voice actors and artists. I noticed they have a very different feel - more complete. Somehow both sexes seem to complete a more harmonial equation. I know women have just as much skill if not perhaps a bit more when it comes to the arts. Somehow still continuing with this original post, I was thinking maybe women are intimidated to contribute because they might be swamped by foaming hormonal 13 years old spewing forth garbage. For instance - * Astro Princess you say you are an art student - have you ever thought of making a flash movie? I know it might not be something you wanted to do - but lets just say you did make a movie - would you be aprehensive of uploading it? I am just wondering what you think know about that subject?

The female proportions here are slim. I find it strange myself since there are a lot of female webmasters on the net who I'm sure are proficient at Flash. Perhaps they are busy, or this sort of thing doesn't really appeal to them. As for me, I'm a chick. Am I intimidated? Oh hell no. I'd eat the creeps alive before they got to me. Will I submit? As a matter of fact I am going to. When I'm finished with the projects I'm working on, I'm putting them on my website and then uploading here to see what everyone thinks. And I'll accept constructive criticism. The creeps? Better watch out.

I think the most I am is apprehensive- that some young studio jerk rips off a bit of concept. I'm not that self centered to think they might rip my art- but the concept? It wouldn't surprise me. That's the only thing I'd worry about.

OMG rawkbaby you kinda read my mind. I feel some anger inside of you - i haven't heard much anger from females thusfar so your post kinda threw me off. I couldn't even imagine what ignorance this site must hold towards females/girls much less if they submitted a flash. Do you know of any female submissions? I would like to see - I tried to search on the subject. Also I know a common worry artist have is someone will "rip-off" their idea. But once it's done - it's on the web - that is kind of your copyright. I know there is alot of people that would steal ideas - but will that hold you back from ever releasing anything publically? I think it really gets back to the poin that artists should create stuff just to finish work, and move on to create more and get better. I really would love to see a female flash that would be like a diamond in the ruff - and I think more contributions from intelligent women/girls might actually do NG a heap of good.

ok dude i know how hard it is to make a flash right now im makeing one right now its pretty hard too,but the reason im sending this in is that you make good flash games but the games are pointless try makeing something a bit more understanding and fun

wow that made sense.
things that people understand.
imma think about that one dude.

At 2/2/03 01:51 AM, SESSNET wrote: OMG rawkbaby you kinda read my mind. I feel some anger inside of you - i haven't heard much anger from females thusfar so your post kinda threw me off. I couldn't even imagine what ignorance this site must hold towards females/girls much less if they submitted a flash. Do you know of any female submissions? I would like to see - I tried to search on the subject. Also I know a common worry artist have is someone will "rip-off" their idea. But once it's done - it's on the web - that is kind of your copyright. I know there is alot of people that would steal ideas - but will that hold you back from ever releasing anything publically? I think it really gets back to the poin that artists should create stuff just to finish work, and move on to create more and get better. I really would love to see a female flash that would be like a diamond in the ruff - and I think more contributions from intelligent women/girls might actually do NG a heap of good.

It's hard to tell who's female on NG unless they say so. The one I've taken notice of(and am pretty sure she's a chick) is VioletAIM... I *think* she's female because I remember in one of her movies she did the voice of the female ghost or something like that.

Other than that I couldn't really tell you because I don't know.

No it's not going to hold ME back- I know how to fight for my rights as an artist. I'd be ticked if I had to fight but I'd do it. I seriously doubt that would happen at all- but ya never know.

As for ignorance towards girls- I just think the demographic is lacking. Also, I think most of the girls here are probably not so obvious because in this day and age we as guys and gals have a lot of common interests... compared to back in the day.

I'm not really angry! Honestly most of the time I get a kick out of everything. I'm cynical in a way. I guess I just don't care about the whole battle of the sexes because in my opinion we're all the same- never been one for feminism or chauvenism or whatever. Just saying I'm always on my toes, that's all.

It'd be nice if more chicks would come out and offer their work. I think girls in general are taught to hold back and not show off. Personally I don't care- if girls are too busy doing something else or worried about being dissed- whatever- I'm here and I'm mouthing off and I'm going to submit stuff!

And well I'm longwinded so there ya go.

Bacon.

Personally i don't think the lack of female submitters is due to them being scared of pubesecent little boys, i think that there is just a lack of females on the site altogether. Although our interests are begining to converge and crossover, this type of technology is still a rather male dominated are. Maybe i am wrong, maybe there is just as many female users as male, but this is my opinion and the way i have seen things to be so far.

At 2/2/03 01:51 AM, SESSNET wrote: Do you know of any female submissions? I would like to see - I tried to search on the subject.

"Who wants to be an NG fan?" is done by a japanese woman.

At 2/1/03 10:26 PM, ViciousMonkey wrote: Just allow people to vote once, and only once on a game or movie.

I'm not sure if that would really work, since some users wouldn't ever be able to vote on some submissions, because there is someone else with the same IP address. I know that i frequently, usually when voting on the "top 5", get an error message saying i have already voted, when i know for a fact that i haven't.

At 2/2/03 10:39 AM, Katanaman wrote: "Who wants to be an NG fan?" is done by a japanese woman.

... and she is hot...

SESS does have a valid point when he said that he knows more after doing. Artist votes are normally completely different from viewers because they can see how stuff is made when watching. I personally think that Super Console Wars is boring and easy, albet time consuming, to do. However, I respect his efforts and imagination and just don't vote on it/review them.

As for someone who said that my stuff is "all motion tweening," it's actually a mix of both - more and more as I have improved. For instance, the Arrogancy: AS Preview contains frame by frame AND motion tweening in almost every scene - it's a subtle scene; so the animations themselves are subtle - they aren't "obvious" animations, but contain the same mix as many anime series. That's what it is styled after, animation wise - anime doesn't have the budget to completely animate characters that detailed on a weekly/26 episode basis, so they mix motion tweening with frame by frame.

I suggested the "authors have more voting power" thing a million times, but that's not feasable because that would piss off the kiddies that power this site and are mad because their vote spamming doesn't make them all-powerful.

If your movies are ever on the front page, you'll get a pretty decent vote because casual voters see them and vote on what they feel. Once the voting gets to be strictly to the portal, it gets skewed because people are just voting according to cliques or what they are championing to be in the top 50 (ie. they'll vote movies they love 5s every day, and anything that is beating them zeros). Which is retarded, but really, there's no reason an author should actually care, KNOWING that that is the mentality behind the voting.

(To all the BASTARDS who didn't like the game)

THE ONLY THING REPETATIVE ABOUT THE GAME WAS HOW MUCH I'VE PLAYED IT OVER AND OVER!!!

For those who thought it was too difficult...
BULLSHIT!!! I'VE BEATEN THE GAME ON COKEHEAD DIFFICULTY!!!

(To Sessnet)

I don't think games are as unpopular to play as they are to make...very few can make a good game without some outside help...I needed help with creating SHOOT TRENT LOTT...I didn't know how to program...

Then you come to games like the ABSOLEM SERIES (an RPG on NG) which is probably better than any submition on the top 50...

Most of these n00bs will probably play only the first level of your game and rate it from THAT...Some will vote 0 if they can't beat the 1st level on Cokehead difficulty! Some will vote 0 if the consept is strange (help Osama smoke enough coke to survive a nuclear blast) or if the title looks strange...

Also...Tweened animation has it's own set of difficulties compared to FRAME BY FRAMING...Tweened anitmation is relatively limmited compared to frame by frame...but if either method is used effectively...you've got something good!

At 1/31/03 12:46 PM, SESSNET wrote: Anyways I also am kind of reluctant to submit stuff to NG because people really don't know shit about how long it takes to make (much less finish) a flash movie/game. Yeah I might have spent 50+ hours on it - (in some cases 150+) and people put it down. That really makes the artist feel bad.

The amount of time someone puts into something does not guarantee that it will be good. Criticism and Creation are two different mental processes, and being good at one does not relate to the other, except in the eyes of others. No matter how long you spend toiling through the making of a flash movie, if the story is trash from the beginning, if the animation takes a long time but is trash anyway, or if its just unoriginal and pointless, the time spent will fix none of that.

Yah! Don't Let The Little Ass Wiping Fuck'in Bastards Down!!

Wow.. its a really good thing you stopped before you started talking about how things were back in NAM. What it comes down to.. is alot of people like myself take heed to just how long it takes to make decent flash. But if it's shit it's shit. I got a kick out of alot of your stuff and your right that not everyone is gonna like it. And maybe.. just maybe.. if your putting 150+ hours into something and it turns out to be shit.. on NG then maybe its because you put too much work into it. What it comes down to... if ive got 100 logs and someone take 150+ hours to move em.. while the other stronger person take 2 hours.. for the same amount of work.. then to me and apparently many others it just doesnt matter. There is such a thing as over workin on flash. Simplicity is its own art, every now and then. So quit reminiscing about how things used to be.. and figure out why they arent that way anymore instead of bitchin about em.

Thanks for your time.

Evil Kodiak you should really read the rest of my posts it seems you quite misunderstood. If I spent 150+ hours on something - I spent that for myself - for learning purposes . I did not spend that time to satisfy someone! So I am not bitching but you had best be itching to listen or you are is a gonna glisten. Pissin on your wishing. Dishing out ass whipping and cristening children. Peace

To add to that,

The person I look up the the most other than your top 25 well known flash artists or what not (too many to list here) I will say my role model is Prikedelic. He is able to execute his ideas in quality, in short amounts of time. I believe he has ove 100+ submissions on NG. He can make something in a matter of minutes - or hour whatever and he gets his ideas and points across. So yes Evil Kodiak you are right about the ability of creating shit simple and fast that is perhaps the greatest art form, because like I said it'a ll about making something and finishing it. Whether it took 1 hour or 150 is irrelevent I totally agree.

Dude I totally agree. I hate it when you spend hours working on something that isn't a piece of shit, and better animated than half the crap out there, only to have it crapped on by some viewer who has never made a flash movie/game, nor has the ability or drive to. But as anyone knows, who has made a flash movie/game and posted on newgrounds, some people just won't like your shit. I've had people contact me tellimg me i'm going to go to hell for making bashman, and I say, "I'm going to hell, but not for bashman." I had people like my work, and want me to produce more, so since newgrounds has become a community open to everyone, then your going to get different views. I wish, that before anyone starts blamming games/movies, they would try to make one themself. That way they could add to the collective expereince of newgrounds by writing quality critics, instead of "blam" or "you suck". But fuck it, how does the old saying go, "you can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."

At 2/2/03 02:16 PM, Evil_Kodiak wrote: And maybe.. just maybe.. if your putting 150+ hours into something and it turns out to be shit.. on NG then maybe its because you put too much work into it.

You can't overwork a Flash, it's purely impossible! The worst thing that could ever happen to anyone who put more time into a Flash is getting a better result. You analogy with logs doesn't work because every piece of Flash is different. I'd compare it more to you having a tree to have to cut down, and hiring two different people to cut it, giving them the choice between many different tools. In the end, it comes down to the person who can use the tools at his disposal in the smartest most effective way.

And I don't know if it's better to make 10 acceptable Flashes in the same time it would take to make one great Flash movie or game. And how much can you actually improve if all you do is tiny little pieces of Flash.

At 1/31/03 05:52 PM, PreacherJ wrote: I understand that people log on, and blam movies that they don't even watch, just to get a blam point. That's bullshit. You should have to write a review for the bad movie saying why you didn't like it, and quote things from the movies they saw.

The only problem is that there'd be no way to enforce it.

Actually i do like cgi and perl php type shiza and there is a way to enforce make them wright the review then once its submitted they can put a score wich will show on the review and if someone has something against what they said like it wasnt in the movie they could point it out to Tom or Wade or someone and they could give him like a warning and if they do it again they get blam-ed.

At 1/31/03 12:46 PM, SESSNET wrote:

<snip>

Very poinant and insightful words... though, I still believe "Yu-Gi-Oh in a Nutshell" should have been sacrificed to the God of BLAM.

FUKKENEH!!!
You tell those sensitive assholes! Anyone who is offended by any work of art should be shot into the sun.
SESSNET (or now DRUGFILMS) rules.

At 1/31/03 12:46 PM, SESSNET wrote:

I noticed games don't fare well on NG in general. Out of the top 50 - there are only like 10 games. Rememeber games is what NG was all about when it started...sigh..the good old days.

hell ya! dude wtf happend there usd to b a weekly top 10 games and now it's lucky to ever c 1!! couldn't agree more