Protests Shutter Garment District

[JMHX]

The normally bustling downtown Los Angeles produce and garment districts were virtually shut down this morning and truck traffic at the ports was lighter than normal after many employees protesting the nation's immigration policy's did not show up for work.

The dearth of activity in the produce and garment districts, both heavily dependent on immigrant labor, was so far the most dramatic sign of the impact of today's organized immigration protests on local commerce. Only sporadic business closures and staffing shortages reported across the remainder of Southern California.

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As I have said in several of the illegal immigration threads, the majority of workers coming in through California find work in the near slave-labor conditions of the garment industry. They are undocumented and well concealed by employers well versed at stonewalling legal procedures meant to clear out the illegals they work from dawn until dusk for cents on the dollar. The immigration protest some predicted less than a dozen would participate in has now paralyzed the district and several other areas that depend on immigrant labor.

Hopefully this will further shine a light on the highly illegal and unethical practices of garment district employers.

[HighlyIllogical]

I'm surprised that these protests actually involved so many people-I wonder what happened to the stock market.

[MoralLibertarian]

Any business that closed down today ought to be heavily investigated.

[HighlyIllogical]

Why's that, Moral? You want supermarkets, fast food outlets, retailers etc. to be investigated simply because they hire illegals and pass the savings on to us?

[TehChahlesh]

At 5/1/06 05:32 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote: Any business that closed down today ought to be heavily investigated.

you know, that's a good point....

[losiglow]

I say we shouldn't do anything about it, Walmart would be screwed if we did away with slave labor, then I'd have to pay 8% more for my cheap crappy consumer goods. Seriously though, you're right. Although I think these people would rather work in these conditions that what their mother country gives them. This goes to show both how these companies profit from unethical behavior and how big of a problem illegal immigration is.

I think it is funny how in my town today, all of the places you typically think of hiring illegals are taking "immigrant appreciation" days. Not dentist offices, insurance offices, accounting firms, law firms, or any other establishment of even mediocre required skill but rather places like meat packing plants, breweries, warehouses, and like you said, ports and garment districts. (Note: I'm not saying people that work at those places are inferior, I used to work at a grocery store so I can't talk. But generally you can get on at places like this with nothing but a work ethic which many illegal immigrants have).

[LazyDrunk]

At 5/1/06 05:33 PM, TehChahlesh wrote:

At 5/1/06 05:32 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote: Any business that closed down today ought to be heavily investigated.

you know, that's a good point....

... worth telling others about.

We don't need to make them all legal if we know who they are. They must really not like Bush to risk deportation in the name of illegal immigration :/

[HighlyIllogical]

We ALL benefit from immigration-illegal or legal. Consumer goods are cheaper because of many reasons, but here's two: illegal immigrants and outsourcing.

[AustinR]

The imagrants are answering lady libertie's call "bring me your weak hudled masses"

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 5/1/06 05:38 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: We ALL benefit from immigration-illegal or legal. Consumer goods are cheaper because of many reasons, but here's two: illegal immigrants and outsourcing.

You fail to realize that we lose more in the eventuall exchange.
These immigrants, legally and economically, aren't in our country. They don't pay an income tax, they don't pay a lot of taxes, and in exchange they use up the resources given to the people without contributing to us.

I would pay 3 dollars for a bushel of apples if I know that the person picking them was actually legal.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 5/1/06 05:57 PM, YankeeFli wrote:

You fail to realize that we lose more in the eventuall exchange.
These immigrants, legally and economically, aren't in our country. They don't pay an income tax, they don't pay a lot of taxes, and in exchange they use up the resources given to the people without contributing to us.

They get very few resources. Public education and emergency medical treatment. That's it. If we lose so much, then why does nearly every economist agree with me?

I would pay 3 dollars for a bushel of apples if I know that the person picking them was actually legal.

What about the poor, then?

[MoralLibertarian]

At 5/1/06 05:33 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Why's that, Moral? You want supermarkets, fast food outlets, retailers etc. to be investigated simply because they hire illegals and pass the savings on to us?

They pass the savings onto prices, but they pass their costs onto taxes. They are tax-burdens.

But I don't care. As long as they are legal, I'm all for them. Any company who knowingly hires an illegal, unregistered immigrant is breaking the law and should be investigated.

[losiglow]

At 5/1/06 06:01 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote:

But I don't care. As long as they are legal, I'm all for them. Any company who knowingly hires an illegal, unregistered immigrant is breaking the law and should be investigated.

Amen.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 5/1/06 06:00 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote:

At 5/1/06 05:57 PM, YankeeFli wrote:

They get very few resources. Public education and emergency medical treatment. That's it. If we lose so much, then why does nearly every economist agree with me?

Public Education is abysmal in California and Hospitals and the like have been losing money for decades and have been slowly going out of business in the south.

What about the poor, then?

What about them. Salary usually goes up with inflation on goods and food. Likewise, different farms would charge different money for apples.

Plus, you can live without apples.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 5/1/06 06:01 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote:

They pass the savings onto prices, but they pass their costs onto taxes. They are tax-burdens.

The cost is not significant.

"Economists speculate that for the average high-school dropout, that would mean about a $25 a week raise if there were no job competition from immigrants."-NPR (http://www.npr.org/t...php?storyId=531290
0)

"[E]conomists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration." (Same source)

Oh, look at that. 1%. No loss. Not much of a gain, but I'll take what I can get, thank you very much.

"The economic impact of illegal immigration is far smaller than other trends in the economy, such as the increasing use of automation in manufacturing or the growth in global trade. Those two factors have a much bigger impact on wages, prices and the health of the U.S. economy."

And there you go. It's not only beneficial (though very little), it's also an irrelevant wedge issue.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 5/1/06 06:23 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote:

At 5/1/06 06:01 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote:

And there you go. It's not only beneficial (though very little), it's also an irrelevant wedge issue.

But wouldn't it be more beneficial if they actually had to pay the same taxes as we did.
Not to mention that they would be American citizens.

Seriously, I just don't get how you come into this country illegally. We have pretty much the weakest immigration laws for any Western Nation.
What does it take to get into this country legally.

[HighlyIllogical]

Far too much. if they could get in legally, they would.

"U.S. natives (especially high-skill natives) appear to have
benefited from greater availability and reduced prices of non-traded goods and services that are
intensive in low-skill labor." http://post.economic..ex_immig_nber_wp.pdf

Is no one going to actually look at the facts besides me?

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 5/1/06 06:28 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote:

Is no one going to actually look at the facts besides me?

I don't think anyone really cares, I just want to see what the requirements are to come into this country legally.

[MoralLibertarian]

At 5/1/06 06:28 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Far too much. if they could get in legally, they would.

"U.S. natives (especially high-skill natives) appear to have
benefited from greater availability and reduced prices of non-traded goods and services that are
intensive in low-skill labor." http://post.economic..ex_immig_nber_wp.pdf

Check it out! A paper! What does that have to do with your first point? No doubt, the US government's immigration policy is a bungling bureaucracy, like every other part of the US government.

Is no one going to actually look at the facts besides me?

H ow am I not looking at the facts? And how are you not going to look at the fact that immigration is now just as much a national security issue as it is an economic issue? We need to register people in these countries so we can locate them and apprehend them if they are suspicious. The difference between legal and illegal is huge, and just because it is hard to get in doesn't mean that it is against the law.

[JMHX]

At 5/1/06 06:28 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Far too much. if they could get in legally, they would.

"U.S. natives (especially high-skill natives) appear to have
benefited from greater availability and reduced prices of non-traded goods and services that are
intensive in low-skill labor." http://post.economic..ex_immig_nber_wp.pdf

This is very interesting.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 5/1/06 06:46 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote:

Check it out! A paper! What does that have to do with your first point?

Just pointing out the benefits of illegal immigration.

How am I not looking at the facts? And how are you not going to look at the fact that immigration is now just as much a national security issue as it is an economic issue? We need to register people in these countries so we can locate them and apprehend them if they are suspicious. The difference between legal and illegal is huge, and just because it is hard to get in doesn't mean that it is against the law.

Uh, *snicker*. You don't have to be a reactionist. Terrorists aren't coming through from Mexico and Canada. They're coming through our airports, our seaports. The border is important, yes, but not as important as port security or airport security.

[LordDarlington]

Most of the immigrants here (Florida) work on farms in the staggering heat and humidity. They pick strawberries or oranges for a whopping $50 a day working from 7 am to 7pm.

Mind you, those are the legal immigrants making minimum wage. The illegals make only a fraction (less than half, IIRC) than that.

[MoralLibertarian]

At 5/1/06 07:20 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Uh, *snicker*. You don't have to be a reactionist. Terrorists aren't coming through from Mexico and Canada.

First of all, how do you know? I once read in Human Events that a substantial number of immigrants from Arab countries come in from the Mexican border. All it takes is for one or a group of them to be terrorists for our national security to be in danger. When they come in through planes or boats, at least they are recognized and registered. This is a similar article on WND.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 5/1/06 07:27 PM, Doitzel wrote: They pick strawberries or oranges for a whopping $50 a day working from 7 am to 7pm.

While you have no source, I'll assume that is about right.

Mind you, those are the legal immigrants making minimum wage.

How do YOU know if they're legal?

The illegals make only a fraction (less than half, IIRC) than that.

Again, source?

[LordDarlington]

I read it in an article in the St. Pete Times today, and I can't be arsed to find it. I think I might've linked to it in another thread... or maybe that was a different article.

Yes, I certainly am a lazy bastard.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 5/1/06 10:18 PM, mofomojo wrote:

I agree with the protestors; hard-working illegals ought to be able to earn amnesty.

I'd say that we shouldn't felonize illegal immigration, and that we should certainly ALLOW them to work towards legal residency and then, eventually, citizenship

[MoralLibertarian]

At 5/1/06 10:18 PM, mofomojo wrote:

At 5/1/06 05:32 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote: Any business that closed down today ought to be heavily investigated.

I think the real point of this protest was to show how much America relies on Immigrant labour; legal and illegal, to keep it's economy going.

Doesn't matter what the real point was. They (the businesses) are breaking the laws and should pay the consequences.

[Jayemare]

Here's an article from Human Events about the cost of illegal immigration

"The net cost to the federal government in 2002 for public services provided to illegal aliens was $10.4 billion or $2,736 per household according to a report by the Center for Immigration Studies. Estimates for 2005 put the amount at $11.7 billion or $3,080 per household."

" Lost Revenue: The U.S. may be foregoing up to $35 billion in lost tax revenue because of the growing size of the underground labor market using illegal workers in the cash economy, according to a January, 2005 report by the Wall Street firm Bear Sterns."

"Health Costs: Medicaid costs for illegal aliens and their U.S.-born children are $2.8 billion annually, according to a study by the Center for Immigration Studies. Approximately 70% of households headed by illegal aliens have at least one person without medical insurance, compared to 20% of all other households. The federal government spends $250 million each year reimbursing states for emergency medical services provided to illegal aliens, which is less than 10% of the true cost of those services."

"Education Costs: The Center for Immigration Studies has shown that federal aid to K-12 public schools for the education of the children of illegal aliens is $1.4 billion annually, not including the cost of free school lunches. The total cost to state and local taxpayers for educating 3.5 million children of illegal aliens is estimated at $28.6 billion, according to a Federation for American Immigration Reform study."

" Incarceration: Illegal aliens account for less than 5% of the U.S. adult population, but were 17% of the federal prison population in 2004, imposing a net cost of $1.8 billion in court and incarceration expenses."