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Planned "Parenthood" is just the type of organization that would make Hitler himself blush.

I'm signing the petition.

At 5/1/06 04:01 PM, WolvenBear wrote: And a fetus is a baby. Thanks for living up to your name!

Eh. In a way, you could argue this. But a fetus is a group of cells-a baby is the same, yet it's out of the womb.

Sometimes alzheimer patients have that problem too.

Source? They're self-aware, they just have memory loss and loss of cognitive abilities.

And coma patients fail that test too.

Wow, really? No shit.

Self-awareness is not a requirement for life.

In the purely biological sense, you are correct. However, from a moral and philisophical P.O.V, you're quite in error.

Not really.

That's your argument?

Doesn't matter. In the womb it is already exploring itself, sucking its thumbs. And just because it's not very bright, doesn't mean it's not a unique life with unique potential.

It has unique potential. It's genetically unique (unless it is a twin or clone, the latter which cannot happen as of yet), yes, but it's not human in terms of sentience.

At 5/1/06 04:19 PM, CorbanX wrote: Planned "Parenthood" is just the type of organization that would make Hitler himself blush.

Sorry, what? Planned Parenthood is not an organization in favor of eugenics, racial hatred etc. Hitler opposed abortion, by the way.

At 5/1/06 04:28 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Hitler opposed abortion, by the way.

O RLY?

At 5/1/06 04:24 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Eh. In a way, you could argue this. But a fetus is a group of cells-a baby is the same, yet it's out of the womb.

Semantics. I guess it's true what they say. Location is everything.

Source? They're self-aware, they just have memory loss and loss of cognitive abilities.

And what do you think happens when they forget they're 70? They look in the mirror and don't recognize the face. Anyone who's worked with alzheimer patients has seen this. It's really sad.

And coma patients fail that test too.

Wow, really? No shit.

And it's news that a fetus can't recognize itself in the mirror?

In the purely biological sense, you are correct. However, from a moral and philisophical P.O.V, you're quite in error.

No, I'm not. We still consider coma patients alive for quite some time.

That's your argument?

Yea, it is. He threw out something that he believed and thought it somehow invalidated someone else. Do I really need to say more?

"I think the death penalty is wrong." "No, they are no longer human since they killed another. Your argument is partially invalid."

It has unique potential. It's genetically unique (unless it is a twin or clone, the latter which cannot happen as of yet), yes, but it's not human in terms of sentience.

That is your opinion. Sentience is not a requirement for us to consider it human life. Unless it is brain dead, sentience is not an issue.

At 5/1/06 04:28 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote:

At 5/1/06 04:19 PM, CorbanX wrote: Planned "Parenthood" is just the type of organization that would make Hitler himself blush.

Sorry, what? Planned Parenthood is not an organization in favor of eugenics

Planned Parenthood was founded on eugenics. Read Margaret Sanger's book, The Pivot of Civilization and study some of the early positions of the American Birth Control League (now Planned Parenthood) and you'll come to realize that she and her organization were racist, poor-hating eugenicists much like that Ghengis guy who posts every now and then.

While they've abandoned their position, many proponents of abortion justify the act by proclaiming that children born into poverty are more likely to commit crimes or drain society. Fair enough, but that sort of pragmatism is characteristic of eugenics.

At 5/1/06 04:39 PM, CorbanX wrote:

At 5/1/06 04:28 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Hitler opposed abortion, by the way.

O RLY?

Please stop beliveing everything you read on the internet. Take a look at the bottom of the article and the source it cited.

"The most merciful thing a large family can do for one of its infant members it to kill it." -from Woman and the New Race, by Margaret Sanger

At 5/1/06 06:06 AM, FAB0L0US wrote:

At 5/1/06 05:47 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Dude...
You can't be serious...
Ever been held at gunpoint by a crackhead?
There. Crackheads are changed when they get hooked. They end up being nothing more than a shell fo their former selfs and want nothing more than another fix.
Call it harmless. I dare you.

1) Crack and coke are different, smart boy.

Not that much different.

2) And YOU have been held at gunpoint by a strung out crackhead? Sure...

My mom works at a package store. That sorta thing happens often there.

3) How many crackheads have you met? They are a mess and will be the first to admit it.

Exactly, drugs really mess people up. Makes them do crazy things. Things they wouldn't normally do.

4) Your example is a CRIME. It conflicts with others intrests, namely, their possessions and life. I would say the goverment should lock someone up who does something like this for decades. You give people free choice but hold them responsible when they abuse that right.

MY choice to do or not to do coke is harmless to you.
Call it harmful. I dare you.

Choice is an excuse.
An incredibly bad excuse.
Yet people jump at excuses...

And you shoving your morality down other peoples throats is somehow admirable.
Right.

And mothers showing their morality or lackthereof by killing their baby is?

And maybe you should try reading my post.

The goverment simply has no right to interfere in our personal lives if what you are doing harms no one else.

Well, this topic is about Planned Paernthood. My tax money going to the funding of killing innocents is not okay in my book, no matter what else PP does.

Anywho, let's stop talking about drugs get back on topic.

At 5/1/06 03:51 PM, mofomojo wrote:

At 5/1/06 04:45 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Okay.

To those who say Planned Parenthood saves lives--
What do yo think an abortion does? It ends a life.

It's interesting that you say this, since most infants can't pass the self-awareness test (ability to recognize oneself and one's own actions in a mirror) until almost after the age of two.

Ends a sentient life? Yeah, yeah it does. It ends the sentient life of the embryo; does it end the conscious life? No; because the conscious life has not yet begun and therefore your argument is partially invalid.

So, until the infant reaches the age of two; it does not have a properly functioning conscious mind. A death means nothing without the loss of a mind and a character. Of course, you could argue that we would miss out on what could be; but this is pointless since one can never predict the future.

I meany human life. Innocent life.
Is someone in a coma inhuman because they are not concious of what's around them?
Of course not.

About the self awareness test--
Are you saying it is okay to kill up to the age of two?
So is it okay to go ahead and kill the babies that are not concious of the world around them?

Harsh. Really.

At 5/1/06 08:32 PM, themagicalpig wrote:

At 5/1/06 04:39 PM, CorbanX wrote:

At 5/1/06 04:28 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Hitler opposed abortion, by the way.

O RLY?

Please stop beliveing everything you read on the internet. Take a look at the bottom of the article and the source it cited.

Just becasue it is faith based doesn't mean it's full of crap, you know...

At 5/1/06 06:52 AM, fli wrote:

At 5/1/06 05:42 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Nope. Killing behind sterile doors and killing in the alleyways are the same. Killing.

I don't know where you got this notion that I was argueeing about this-- however, if you will...

Mmm.
Killing is killing. Okay. Given--
but at the same time, do you approve a woman dying too? There is so much more possibilities of woman getting sick and dying after a dirty abortion.

Women can die from legal abortions as well.

I prefer just one instead of two.

I prefer to save them both if I can.

But then again--
Killing has been sanctioned. Except, we just call it, "death penalty". Or, "administration of death." Yet, many people who disapprove killing, approve the killing (let's call this "murder" instead) of a crazy pshyco serial killer. After all... Killing is killing.

I do not agree with the death peanlty, but that is for another thread.

I agree with you that illegalizing abortion will not prevent it. However, legalizing it with make it more accesable, making it more mainstream, more accesilbe, okay. Killing innoncence is NOT okay.

I don't know where you get this notion that abortion is "okay". I'm pretty sure that more most woman who are considering abortion... it's gonna be a hard decision.

Well, if the government allows it, people will think it is okay.

Legalizing it doesn't increase it.
Instead, it creates more danger.

Look what this type of thinking does in the first place:
People are against of birth control because it will cause more sex to happen. Making it not accessible will curb it.

It proved otherwise.

If there is something that you are ashamed of, chances are, it's for good reason.

Yes-- a child is something to be ashamed of...

I was speaking of having an abortion.

Yes... people are suppose to die trying to please everyone else because they're saying, "If there's something that you are ashamed of... it's for a good reason."

Read above. Sorry for confusion.

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being government funded abortion clinics. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what they do?

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being secret abortion clinics or at homes. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what happens?

They WILLINGLY do that. Babies don't. There is a difference. And what happens to a mother during abortion complications is NOTHING compared to what happens to the baby. Look up the procedures used.

Really--
we need to stop acting naive.

I won't back down. Call me naive, but I actually vaule life. Guess that makes me naive.

I'm not calling you naive.
But I've known families in Mexico, friends and family to my family.

Whatever impressions you get, at least know this: I care about life as much as you do.
However-- I believe in quality of life too. Because living life and not being provided for or whatever is no real life to live. Now I won't go saying we should abort galore because life is tough. But if a kid can't be provided because of poverty--

I vaule all life. Life lived is better than life never lived.

And adoption is a fine option. Except that people chose the "beautiful" and the others are forced either to grow up in adoption, or shuffled around. Of course we could fix the situation by allowing gays to more readily adopt... but I guess a kid growing up with two spinster "aunts" or two bachelaur "uncles" is morally bad, instead of thinking about the repucusions of not letting them being adopted by loving families... But I'm off subject. I return...

I like adoption as well. I don't mind gays adopting etiher. I don't like discrimination on the governments part either.

You should start caring for the people outside the womb.

I care for innocence. Not just for what I can see. Abortionist use ultrasound for an abortion. Most of the time, if a mother sees the baby about to be aboorted on the ultrasound screen, she will change her mind. You see, you know it, and with knowing comes loving.

But I could say atleast that only one person dies... instead of two... with my decision.
The same cannot be said for yours.

Both can be saved. And both could die.
But both can die from abortion as well, legal or illegal.
I had rather shoot higher than that.

At 5/1/06 04:01 PM, WolvenBear wrote:

At 5/1/06 03:45 PM, pretentious_asshat wrote: Abortion isn't illegal, and babies don't die - fetuses die.

I'm aware abortion is legal. Thanks.

And a fetus is a baby. Thanks for living up to your name!

A fetus is not a baby. A fetus is a zygote. A zygote is not a baby.

At 5/8/06 11:15 AM, pretentious_asshat wrote: A fetus is not a baby.

Yes it is.

A fetus is a zygote.

Fetus

Zygote

You're welcome.

A zygote is not a baby.

Yes it is.

Don't feel the need to respond to pretentious asshats. Lol :)

But seriously-

Do you feel that even aborting a blastocyst is murder? I mean, yeah, they're human. Yes, they have 46 chromosomes. Yes, they have human DNA...but, still. Is cutting yourself "murder" because you're killing skin cells and phagocytes (that have 46 chromosomes and human DNA)?

i signed also you should now that each day for the last 4 years i have been wearing all black clothes. i wear it for the thousnads who have died because of abortion

At 4/30/06 06:03 AM, Redbob86 wrote: And about the wire-hanger remark, do you not think behavior won't change when new actions are taken?

your an idiot. just because your being an asshole and trying to stop people who just want to make thier own choices in life. its not your fucking buisness, and its apparent that you've never even known anyone in the situation of a chrisis pregancy. fuck you for being ignorant. there actually are people who would be willing to risk their lives jsut to get rid of a baby that they cant have or just plain dont want to have. you know too little ablout life to be making remarks like this and i know a few people who would slice your neck open if you ever told them you started a topic about this. shut up and fuck off.