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At 4/30/06 07:26 PM, therealsylvos wrote:

At 4/30/06 06:18 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote:

death occurs in every abortion no? really bad jokes aside; he means aside from death, physical defects, such as never being able to give birth again, mentel problems like depression, and other diseases like various forms of cancer

Extreme depression has a 100% of occuring after an abortion, unless the woman has no functional part of her brain to allow her to fell shame and regret for allowing offspring to die.

If you don't mind me saying, this whole discussion is recockulous. Why on earth should politicians be funding special interest groups? It should be the other way around. Special interest groups should get their funding from the public who agrees with the cause.

It's a moot point. If you love abortion, think its safe, and believe we are in grave danger of overpopulation, then by all means donate to Planned Parenthood. But don't expect the American tax-payer to subsidize it, especially when many have moral qualms with it.

At 4/30/06 05:57 AM, fli wrote:

At 4/30/06 05:50 AM, Redbob86 wrote: This petition will help stop tax-payer funding to Planned Parenthood. I just signed it, it's a good cause.
http://www.stopplann..thoodtaxfunding.com/


Even if you support abortion, would you really want your tax dollars going to fund it?

They provide free condoms, preventative shots to certain STDs, treatment, couseling, and other things--

Yes.
Let's take those too...

You know, for the most part, I think we just don't want to pay for abortions.

But I will sign this because I like to see a girl die with a wire stuck in her vagina in her house instead of a clean office. But whatever--

Yes because it would be too much to expect people to live with the consequences of their actions.

At 4/30/06 08:46 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote: If you don't mind me saying, this whole discussion is recockulous. Why on earth should politicians be funding special interest groups? It should be the other way around. Special interest groups should get their funding from the public who agrees with the cause.

It's a moot point. If you love abortion, think its safe, and believe we are in grave danger of overpopulation, then by all means donate to Planned Parenthood. But don't expect the American tax-payer to subsidize it, especially when many have moral qualms with it.

I must say, I like this point the most.

We exist in a state where the people are suppose to have the final say in the matter. Politicians are theoretically here to represent the will of the people, and reflect that will, rather than purely depend on their own whims. If a congressman suddenly takes interest in a subject area, he should converse with the people he is representing, taking their thoughts and ideals into the equation. That is the true nature of Universal Suffrage.

We live in a democracy. The sum of our thoughts and beliefs should be taken account of, and not merely those who express themselves in a more dramatic way. Democracy is not about the will of the few, but the will of the many. If the people as a whole, decidedly mature group (age 18 is the maturation age) choose that they will support a particular cause, then let the government note the dissention in this morality.

Until a clear, unified majority is presented, the people may freely support whichever side they wish, and according to however much they desire. After all, we still have our constitutional freedoms, no?

At 4/30/06 05:50 AM, Redbob86 wrote:

Even if you support abortion, would you really want your tax dollars going to fund it?

At 4/30/06 08:57 PM, BeFell wrote:

You know, for the most part, I think we just don't want to pay for abortions.

Welcome everyone to a 'Omg, you're doing someone else's dirty work!" show!

Our money... our values... are they nothing more than mere numbers to our government? This cultural responsibility, to stop the death of unborn babies... are we not overlooking a critical appreciation? Everyday, 'our' tax dollars goes towards things that would cause death, or would otherwise be negligent in performing an action to help an otherwise savable person. Money is routed to the governments desire, and our purpose to supply these desires. Abortion? you say. 'What a terrible act, causing the deaths of unborn children, denying them the fruits and privilege of life.'

Look around you.

Death occurs everyday, from senseless murders, drug overdoses, to fledgling diseases. Poverty exercises its will on suffering people throughout this country, even in the most prosperous of cities. Thousands, nay - hundreds of thousands of people need help this very second, and yet - our thought are cast upon the innocent. The only ones who truly can be innocent at this point. But regardless of these hopes, these people are no less human than you or me. These people are not without salvation, and not all are hopeless without cause. Being born into this world does not guarantee satisfaction, nor even the subtle needs that have commanded us since the dawn of time. Our morality has soared so high that it seeks to resolve innocence into this world - but the world lacks this embodiment.

We have not resolved even the most carnal of our desires, one of which is the infliction of harm onto each other. We are all human - we have nothing to fear from one another. Yet we do fear, and we do instigate pain and destruction. This world is not resolute as one of tranquility, and we still have a long ways to go before we can support this emancipation.

At 4/30/06 07:24 PM, Dranigus wrote:

I'm not going to get into heavy details because I'm strapped for time and am pretty much sick of the whole "arguing about abortion" scene, but many, if not all of those points apply to labor, as well, which effectively nullifies your argument since those women would have experienced those effects anyways.

It's not a huge argument, but I'd just thought that I would contribute that observation and be on my merry way.

Why do people find it acceptable for the government to fund faith based groups in communities and faith based programs, despite the fact the Constitution calsl for a seperation of chruch and state, but you ar eup in arms over money going to Planned Parenthood, when I am pretty sure there is nothing in the Constitution about speration of abortion and state.

At 4/30/06 05:50 AM, Redbob86 wrote: This petition will help stop tax-payer funding to Planned Parenthood. I just signed it, it's a good cause.
http://www.stopplann..thoodtaxfunding.com/


Even if you support abortion, would you really want your tax dollars going to fund it?

You know, we have worse things wasting tax dollars than planned parenthood. I think planned parenthood is one of the few things that really Deserves the money.

Okay.

To those who say Planned Parenthood saves lives--
What do yo think an abortion does? It ends a life.

To those who prefer not to sign the petition on account of condom handouts--
You can get them from any clinic. Government can't stop you from getting them.

To the people complaining over the wire hanger--
Abortion is a terrible thing, correct? No one likes it. No one skips home after an abortion. What makes you think that lawful abortion is better than unlawful. Both are terrible things that shouldn't be allowed.

I ask you this:
Since drugs like cocaine will always be around, should we sell that lawfuly too?
Of course not. Making something bad lawful so that it can be carried out easier does not make what's happening any better.

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being government funded abortion clinics. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what they do?

Stop finding excuses. Stop the apathy. Stop the slaughter. Start living for more than yourself.

At 5/1/06 04:45 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Since drugs like cocaine will always be around, should we sell that lawfuly too?
Of course not. Making something bad lawful so that it can be carried out easier does not make what's happening any better.

You can't compare drugs and abortion. They're so different in nature that the analogy is not only ineffective... it's not logical.

You can't really compare to a girl or a woman, who maybe scared about getting an abortion but needs one for whatever reason... to a person who takes drugs.

And yes-- legal abortions are better because they're much more safter than abortions that are forced to do the procedure secretly. This is because the legal abortions create an clinics with a strict health protocal. Whereas the other... well... woman are so much more at risk.

Illegalizing abortion does not prevent them.
Daughters. Mothers. Aunts. Grandmothers. Friends. Family.
They're dying right now in Mexico because they believe in an ideal that doesn't happen in real life: that all pregancies come to full term and that they can give the baby away.

Instead, it creates a strong unrealistic view of the world.
And when a girl makes a mistake, she's too scared to approach her own family because they have ideals what the world should be.

So they go into hiding, and then-- the bad news.
My daughter is dead because I had this ideal that didn't fit with reality.
My sister is not alive because she had blood poisoning.
I bury my mom because nobody thought about her health.

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being government funded abortion clinics. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what they do?

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being secret abortion clinics or at homes. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what happens?

Really--
we need to stop acting naive.

At 5/1/06 04:45 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Okay.

Let's do this.

To those who say Planned Parenthood saves lives--
What do yo think an abortion does? It ends a life.

Not all people agree with your premise that abortion is equivalent to ending a human life.

To those who prefer not to sign the petition on account of condom handouts--
You can get them from any clinic. Government can't stop you from getting them.

Is that true? I'm not trying to discredit you but I've never heard of clinics providing free condoms, no questions asked to anyone, including minors, without informing the parents.

To the people complaining over the wire hanger--
Abortion is a terrible thing, correct? No one likes it. No one skips home after an abortion. What makes you think that lawful abortion is better than unlawful. Both are terrible things that shouldn't be allowed.

I'll agree that Abortion isn't a pleasant experience, but obviously, to some people, it is better than the alternative. In a country where abortion is legal, women should have resources available to allow them to get the answers they need about this procedure.

ask you this:
Since drugs like cocaine will always be around, should we sell that lawfuly too?
Of course not. Making something bad lawful so that it can be carried out easier does not make what's happening any better.

I think you have made too big of an assumption with your rhetorical question. I'd say that it would be wise to take a pragmatic stance on illegal drugs. Heroin for example, is a dangerous drug that is bad for public health, but it might not be that bad of an idea to provide free or inexpensive sterile needles. Few people who are addicted to Heroin will stop using Heroin if there are no clean needles, but I imagine, given the choice between clean needles and dirty needles, they'll take clean needles. The result is the spread of disease is reduced which is good for EVERYONE.

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being government funded abortion clinics. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what they do?

I don't think everyone will agree that fetuses that are indistinguishable from animal fetuses are exactly equivalent to human beings.

Stop finding excuses. Stop the apathy. Stop the slaughter. Start living for more than yourself.

Your whole opposition to Planned Parenthood is obviously a result of your anti-abortion stance. Unless you can find some other reason to be against PP, I don't think you'll have much luck persuading PP's supporters to turn away.

At 5/1/06 04:45 AM, SilentPoet wrote: I ask you this:
Since drugs like cocaine will always be around, should we sell that lawfuly too?

Yes, but for many more reasons than just that.

Of course not. Making something bad lawful so that it can be carried out easier does not make what's happening any better.

Tell me why cocaine is bad. It may harm someones health but it is their OWN CHOICE. Same with abortion. The goverment has no right to restrict choices that conflict with no one else.

The goverment simply has no right to interfere in our personal lives if what you are doing harms no one else.

At 5/1/06 05:10 AM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote:

At 5/1/06 04:45 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Okay.

Let's do this.

To those who say Planned Parenthood saves lives--
What do yo think an abortion does? It ends a life.

Not all people agree with your premise that abortion is equivalent to ending a human life.

Then please tell me just what does it do? It ends life plain and simple. No getting around that.

To those who prefer not to sign the petition on account of condom handouts--
You can get them from any clinic. Government can't stop you from getting them.

Is that true? I'm not trying to discredit you but I've never heard of clinics providing free condoms, no questions asked to anyone, including minors, without informing the parents.

There's a clinic by my school that does it. Perhaps it is not like this nationwide, but I belive if someone can't get condoms, they really shouldn't be having sex in the first place. But thats a whole other topic.

To the people complaining over the wire hanger--
Abortion is a terrible thing, correct? No one likes it. No one skips home after an abortion. What makes you think that lawful abortion is better than unlawful. Both are terrible things that shouldn't be allowed.

I'll agree that Abortion isn't a pleasant experience, but obviously, to some people, it is better than the alternative. In a country where abortion is legal, women should have resources available to allow them to get the answers they need about this procedure.

Better than the alternative? Killing life is better than perserving it? I think not. I do agree that women should be properly informed about abortion and what it does. Just like I believe in drug education and sex education. Kids need to know that stuff is out there so they won't be blindsided by it later on.

ask you this:
Since drugs like cocaine will always be around, should we sell that lawfuly too?
Of course not. Making something bad lawful so that it can be carried out easier does not make what's happening any better.

I think you have made too big of an assumption with your rhetorical question. I'd say that it would be wise to take a pragmatic stance on illegal drugs. Heroin for example, is a dangerous drug that is bad for public health, but it might not be that bad of an idea to provide free or inexpensive sterile needles. Few people who are addicted to Heroin will stop using Heroin if there are no clean needles, but I imagine, given the choice between clean needles and dirty needles, they'll take clean needles. The result is the spread of disease is reduced which is good for EVERYONE.

Well, perhaps that was a bad example. Perhaps I should use another one.
Since prostituttion will always be around, should the government fund it/ tax it/ etc?

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being government funded abortion clinics. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what they do?

I don't think everyone will agree that fetuses that are indistinguishable from animal fetuses are exactly equivalent to human beings.

Doesn't matter what people belive. Doesn't change the truth.

Stop finding excuses. Stop the apathy. Stop the slaughter. Start living for more than yourself.

Your whole opposition to Planned Parenthood is obviously a result of your anti-abortion stance. Unless you can find some other reason to be against PP, I don't think you'll have much luck persuading PP's supporters to turn away.

Yep. I don't like abortion. I won't back down fromm my stance either.

At 5/1/06 05:05 AM, fli wrote:

At 5/1/06 04:45 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Since drugs like cocaine will always be around, should we sell that lawfuly too?
Of course not. Making something bad lawful so that it can be carried out easier does not make what's happening any better.

You can't compare drugs and abortion. They're so different in nature that the analogy is not only ineffective... it's not logical.

Perhaps, that was a bad example...

You can't really compare to a girl or a woman, who maybe scared about getting an abortion but needs one for whatever reason... to a person who takes drugs.

Perhaps...but both parties are desperate...

And yes-- legal abortions are better because they're much more safter than abortions that are forced to do the procedure secretly. This is because the legal abortions create an clinics with a strict health protocal. Whereas the other... well... woman are so much more at risk.

Nope. Killing behind sterile doors and killing in the alleyways are the same. Killing.

Illegalizing abortion does not prevent them.
Daughters. Mothers. Aunts. Grandmothers. Friends. Family.
They're dying right now in Mexico because they believe in an ideal that doesn't happen in real life: that all pregancies come to full term and that they can give the baby away.

I agree with you that illegalizing abortion will not prevent it. However, legalizing it with make it more accesable, making it more mainstream, more accesilbe, okay. Killing innoncence is NOT okay.

Instead, it creates a strong unrealistic view of the world.

I disagree. I know that all babies won't make it. I also know that some mothers may not survive birth. But there is a chance of survival. I'd rather die giving birth than die later on knowing I killed my child.

And when a girl makes a mistake, she's too scared to approach her own family because they have ideals what the world should be.

So they go into hiding, and then-- the bad news.
My daughter is dead because I had this ideal that didn't fit with reality.
My sister is not alive because she had blood poisoning.
I bury my mom because nobody thought about her health.

If there is something that you are ashamed of, chances are, it's for good reason.

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being government funded abortion clinics. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what they do?

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being secret abortion clinics or at homes. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what happens?

They WILLINGLY do that. Babies don't. There is a difference. And what happens to a mother during abortion complications is NOTHING compared to what happens to the baby. Look up the procedures used.

Really--
we need to stop acting naive.

I won't back down. Call me naive, but I actually vaule life. Guess that makes me naive.

At 5/1/06 05:29 AM, FAB0L0US wrote:

At 5/1/06 04:45 AM, SilentPoet wrote: I ask you this:
Since drugs like cocaine will always be around, should we sell that lawfuly too?

Yes, but for many more reasons than just that.

Of course not. Making something bad lawful so that it can be carried out easier does not make what's happening any better.

Tell me why cocaine is bad. It may harm someones health but it is their OWN CHOICE. Same with abortion. The goverment has no right to restrict choices that conflict with no one else.

The goverment simply has no right to interfere in our personal lives if what you are doing harms no one else.

Dude...
You can't be serious...
Ever been held at gunpoint by a crackhead?
There. Crackheads are changed when they get hooked. They end up being nothing more than a shell fo their former selfs and want nothing more than another fix.
Call it harmless. I dare you.

And about choice--
A choice to murder is no good choice.
Still doesn't change what happens.
How about I choose to poo on your head? *joking*
Its my choice!
See? Doesn't change what actually is happening.
Choice is an excuse.
An incredibly bad excuse.
Yet people jump at excuses...

At 5/1/06 05:47 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Dude...
You can't be serious...
Ever been held at gunpoint by a crackhead?
There. Crackheads are changed when they get hooked. They end up being nothing more than a shell fo their former selfs and want nothing more than another fix.
Call it harmless. I dare you.

1) Crack and coke are different, smart boy
2) And YOU have been held at gunpoint by a strung out crackhead? Sure...
3) How many crackheads have you met? They are a mess and will be the first to admit it.
4) Your example is a CRIME. It conflicts with others intrests, namely, their possessions and life. I would say the goverment should lock someone up who does something like this for decades. You give people free choice but hold them responsible when they abuse that right.

MY choice to do or not to do coke is harmless to you.
Call it harmful. I dare you.

Choice is an excuse.
An incredibly bad excuse.
Yet people jump at excuses...

And you shoving your morality down other peoples throats is somehow admirable.

Right.

And maybe you should try reading my post.

The goverment simply has no right to interfere in our personal lives if what you are doing harms no one else.

At 5/1/06 05:42 AM, SilentPoet wrote: Nope. Killing behind sterile doors and killing in the alleyways are the same. Killing.

I don't know where you got this notion that I was argueeing about this-- however, if you will...

Mmm.
Killing is killing. Okay. Given--
but at the same time, do you approve a woman dying too? There is so much more possibilities of woman getting sick and dying after a dirty abortion.

I prefer just one instead of two.

But then again--
Killing has been sanctioned. Except, we just call it, "death penalty". Or, "administration of death." Yet, many people who disapprove killing, approve the killing (let's call this "murder" instead) of a crazy pshyco serial killer. After all... Killing is killing.

I agree with you that illegalizing abortion will not prevent it. However, legalizing it with make it more accesable, making it more mainstream, more accesilbe, okay. Killing innoncence is NOT okay.

I don't know where you get this notion that abortion is "okay". I'm pretty sure that more most woman who are considering abortion... it's gonna be a hard decision.

Legalizing it doesn't increase it.
Instead, it creates more danger.

Look what this type of thinking does in the first place:
People are against of birth control because it will cause more sex to happen. Making it not accessible will curb it.

It proved otherwise.

If there is something that you are ashamed of, chances are, it's for good reason.

Yes-- a child is something to be ashamed of...
Yes... people are suppose to die trying to please everyone else because they're saying, "If there's something that you are ashamed of... it's for a good reason."

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being government funded abortion clinics. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what they do?

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being secret abortion clinics or at homes. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what happens?

They WILLINGLY do that. Babies don't. There is a difference. And what happens to a mother during abortion complications is NOTHING compared to what happens to the baby. Look up the procedures used.

Really--
we need to stop acting naive.

I won't back down. Call me naive, but I actually vaule life. Guess that makes me naive.

I'm not calling you naive.
But I've known families in Mexico, friends and family to my family.

Whatever impressions you get, at least know this: I care about life as much as you do.
However-- I believe in quality of life too. Because living life and not being provided for or whatever is no real life to live. Now I won't go saying we should abort galore because life is tough. But if a kid can't be provided because of poverty--

And adoption is a fine option. Except that people chose the "beautiful" and the others are forced either to grow up in adoption, or shuffled around. Of course we could fix the situation by allowing gays to more readily adopt... but I guess a kid growing up with two spinster "aunts" or two bachelaur "uncles" is morally bad, instead of thinking about the repucusions of not letting them being adopted by loving families... But I'm off subject. I return...

You should start caring for the people outside the womb.

But I could say atleast that only one person dies... instead of two... with my decision.
The same cannot be said for yours.

At 5/1/06 06:52 AM, fli wrote:

At 5/1/06 05:42 AM, SilentPoet wrote:

But I could say atleast that only one person dies... instead of two... with my decision.
The same cannot be said for yours.

What are you doing up Fli?

It's 4:00 PST

Anyways besides that point, you know just as much as I do that abortions to save the mothers life are a small margin in total abortion. Likewise with rape.

RANT TIME!!!

At 4/30/06 11:13 PM, mofomojo wrote: Around the age of 12 - 14 is a good time to teach them this stuff.

Okay, first off...

I was a homeschooler, and I was not given sex ed until I was 14 years old. Why? Because according to my parents, they did not want to teach me sex ed at the normal age recomended by the public schools because they thought it would warp/rot my brain. 4th grade is what they teach it at around here, so I would have been 9 at the time. As far as I know, they are still doing that, so that rules out the ignorance part of it...

Secondly, condoms are available in every grocery store, pharmacy, and gas station I walk into, and I live in a bible belt state. Last time I bought a box, they didn't ask for my ID either. So as far as this "more readily available" crap goes, I don't buy it. They couldn't be more readily available if they were fucking raining from the sky, or handed out with every fast food meal.

If it's the pill your whining about, I can understand that... they're so hard to get, my you actually have to get a *gasp* DOCTOR'S NOTE for them! Then someone might actually find out that your under the age of 18 and having sex, and your parents might just have to do their jobs and get involved in the raising of their own kids,

At 5/1/06 10:45 AM, Proteas wrote: RANT TIME!!!

At 4/30/06 11:13 PM, mofomojo wrote: Around the age of 12 - 14 is a good time to teach them this stuff.

Okay, first off...

I was a homeschooler.

For joy! I'm not the only home school kid on newgrounds.

Some may consider this somewhat Nazi like but it is not…
I don’t care what you do how you do it or how often…
…but I am quite Darwinian in my philosophies and as such those that can not control their baser emotion should by all means get aborted. After all, if you can’t control your emotions and base desires then you are a weak DNA source. So to my way of thinking not only should we support these abortions as a society. But, we should steriliz those that continue to get them for their protection and the protection of society.

At 5/1/06 12:26 AM, Captn_r wrote:

At 4/30/06 07:24 PM, Dranigus wrote:

I'm not going to get into heavy details because I'm strapped for time and am pretty much sick of the whole "arguing about abortion" scene, but many, if not all of those points apply to labor.

They apply to negative consequences that occur during an abortion, not during labor. Your child doesn't come out as just a foot after nine months of labor unless something happened while you weren't aware of it. Sorry dude, but you have no idea of what I was talking about. LMAO!!!!

as well, which effectively nullifies your argument since those women would have experienced those effects anyways.

I'm sorry, but what the hell? How can you even say that? Do you even know what you are talking about?

It's not a huge argument, but I'd just thought that I would contribute that observation and be on my merry way.

Umm yeah... the cocaine misses you too. Good bye and I hope you have a nice trip going back to whatever hell hole you crawled out of.

At 5/1/06 01:04 AM, JoS wrote: Why do people find it acceptable for the government to fund faith based groups in communities and faith based programs, despite the fact the Constitution calsl for a seperation of chruch and state, but you ar eup in arms over money going to Planned Parenthood, when I am pretty sure there is nothing in the Constitution about speration of abortion and state.

Two errors.

1) The Constitution calls for no such thing. As long as the Federal government (or state government) doesn't establish a state church, there is no harm, no foul.

2) Theoretically, the government may fund any organization, business, church, etc. that is so chooses, as long as popular sovereignty backs it up. If more than 50% of the people in this country have a problem with the federal government funding abortion on demand through Planned Parenthood, then by golly, the public should have their way regardless of its supposed societal benefits.

At 4/30/06 06:08 PM, fli wrote: And you're being naive.
NO abortion will occur because NO place LEGALLY exists?

Did I say that? NO. And you know it. In fact, we're not even discussing whether or not abortion should be legal or not. We're discussing whether or not Planned Parenthood should get taxpayer funding. And your idiotic assertion is that, if the tax dollars stop flowing, that somehow the entire multi-billion dollar industry will collapse, and that abortion will automatically be illegal again, forcing women to go to the mythical back alley clinic and have a hanger shoved inside of them. We both know that won't happen, so stop throwing it out there.

But while we're talking about whether or not illegalizing it will make it stop, of course it won't. Illegalizing it just makes it a crime, and makes LESS OF IT OCCUR. Will people still do it? Of course. It's also illegal to run red lights, and it's damn dangerous to do so. Should we make that legal too? People will still do it? That's why that weak argument fails. People will always break the law. And if it's dangerous to them...who cares?

My post maybe assinine very marginally--
but Jesus... it's wholly puerile to believe that what I've described neither hasn't happened, nor will not happen if abortion is illegalized.

Because not funding Planned Parenthood with taxpayer dollars automatically makes abortion illegal....do you even listen to yourself talk?

I've provided Mexico's dirty abortions as a real life example that's happening now.
I've yet seen the contrarary where what you believe happens in real life.

What exactly do you think I believe there chuckles?

Hey-- Abortions maybe illegal. Adoption can be a McProcess: fast and conveniant.
But that's not going to stop abortions from happening, or putting the lives at risk of woman who does this.

And that's the crux, who cares? Breaking the law is inherently dangerous. Just because it's a woman we should make it to where it's not a crime as well? I don't buy it.

At 4/30/06 07:21 PM, -Alex- wrote: I support Planned Parenthood. Teenage mothers would have no resources on how to mother without it. Also, they can do an abortion and hide everything from your parents. Planned Parenthood saves lives, and that is what my Tax Dollars should go to.

Yes, because the thousands of charities for mothers, governmental help, and OTHER counsiling services don't exist.

Planned Parenthood fragrantly breaks the law by transporting teens over state lines, which is a felony. Why shouldn't parents be informed by the way?

At 4/30/06 10:39 PM, RedScorpion wrote: long winded rant about how evil we all are

Dear Jesus! We have a tendancy to hurt each other? WOW! Thank you for pointing that out! Now for something that isn't painfully obvious to everyone over the age of five....

At 4/30/06 11:13 PM, mofomojo wrote: The Bible pushers are perhaps the people making it worse than better for these kids. While opposing adoption, they're also against Condoms (mostly the Catholics) and Birth Control. These people want kids to remain abstinent irrelavant of their raging hormones.

So you've got a problem with the message "if you don't have sex, you won't get pregnant"? There was a post awhile back about abstinence only ed, and the person really slammed it...mainly because it informed kids too much. Most people who bitch about abstinence only ed, their plan is just to give the kid a condom and say "have fun". And that's most of our problem.

buncha crap....

So it's hard. Who cares? Life is about controling yourself. Wanna hit your neighbor? Can't, it's illegal. But it's so hard...
Lame argument.

I think that abortion is largely a female issue, it gets largely corrupted once men get into it. I don't really think that males understand what it is to be pregnant and how hard it is to get an abortion and how a lot of girls just aren't ready to have a child.

Ah, the "you just can't understand" discussion. Weak.

Now, adoption is a good alternative, but then the girl feels as if she's leaving one of her kids behind to a complete stranger if she does that. The maternal instinct of females is very strong.

Yes, that's why almost all of them go through depression after an abortion.

Around the age of 12 - 14 is a good time to teach them this stuff.

My father started when I was 9, before I hit puberty. He figured once I hit puberty, it was too late. Amazing how good of a deterant it is to see what herpes and syphallis look like....

At 5/1/06 01:04 AM, JoS wrote: Why do people find it acceptable for the government to fund faith based groups in communities and faith based programs, despite the fact the Constitution calsl for a seperation of chruch and state, but you ar eup in arms over money going to Planned Parenthood, when I am pretty sure there is nothing in the Constitution about speration of abortion and state.

Seperation of church and state doesn't say that we can't provide blanket funding to all kinds of religions and you know it. Seperation of church and state isn't even IN the constitution by the way. And I'm sure the founding fathers envisioned the state giving millions of women every year the ability to murder their children.

And I thought Fli's argument was assinine.

At 5/1/06 05:05 AM, fli wrote: You can't compare drugs and abortion. They're so different in nature that the analogy is not only ineffective... it's not logical.

They're both illegal, they both cause damage to the body, and they will both continue even if we keep/make them illegal. But seeing as druggies survive and the babies don't...yea abortions worse.

And yes-- legal abortions are better because they're much more safter than abortions that are forced to do the procedure secretly. This is because the legal abortions create an clinics with a strict health protocal. Whereas the other... well... woman are so much more at risk.

I'm sorry, but please show me the stats on how many women died pre-Roe. I mean, cause they kept such great records. And making abortion legal, pretty much legalized all those "hanger wielders" you hated so much.

Illegalizing abortion does not prevent them.
Daughters. Mothers. Aunts. Grandmothers. Friends. Family.
They're dying right now in Mexico because they believe in an ideal that doesn't happen in real life: that all pregancies come to full term and that they can give the baby away.

People are getting sick in Mexico from drinking the water. People don't have jobs in Mexico. It's a toilet all around.

Take some responsibilty people. Your fellow human beings are quietly being slaughtered being secret abortion clinics or at homes. And yes, I did use the term slaughtered. I can find no better word. How else would you descricbe what happens?

The consequences of breaking the law. Much better than slaughtered.

Really--
we need to stop acting naive.

Really, you need to stop being full of crap...

At 5/1/06 06:06 AM, FAB0L0US wrote: 4) Your example is a CRIME. It conflicts with others intrests, namely, their possessions and life. I would say the goverment should lock someone up who does something like this for decades. You give people free choice but hold them responsible when they abuse that right.

Most drugs make people violent. They get addicted, run out of money and turn to crime just to get their fix. Since it's the norm that it leads to crime and violence we illegalize it.

MY choice to do or not to do coke is harmless to you.
Call it harmful. I dare you.

OK. It's harmful. Happy now?

And you shoving your morality down other peoples throats is somehow admirable.

Right.

You mean like forcing the rest of the country to subsidize abortion? That's forcing your opinion on people.

Example: Someone doesn't think blacks are people. The government says they are. If he tries to hurt one, we take him out of thepopulation for the sake of all. FORCING MORALITY! DEAR JESUS!

Normally you're so bright, but come on.

The goverment simply has no right to interfere in our personal lives if what you are doing harms no one else.

And we believe abortion harms another being. Therefore the government not only has the right to interfere, they have the duty. And even by your logic, the government doesn't have to FUND your bad choices.

At 5/1/06 06:52 AM, fli wrote: Legalizing it doesn't increase it.
Instead, it creates more danger.

Legalizing it DOES increase it. If you believe different, you sir are beyond gone.

Look what this type of thinking does in the first place:
People are against of birth control because it will cause more sex to happen. Making it not accessible will curb it.

It proved otherwise.

Actually, the primary argument for birth control is that it would curb the birth rate to single mothers. It didn't. In fact, they increased. Same with abortion. If you take the risk out of something, more people will engage in it, and the incident rate goes up.Hell, every abortion proponent I've ever met (except you) at least admits that there are more abortions now that when it was illegal. To assert otherwise is nonsense.

Whatever impressions you get, at least know this: I care about life as much as you do.
However-- I believe in quality of life too. Because living life and not being provided for or whatever is no real life to live. Now I won't go saying we should abort galore because life is tough. But if a kid can't be provided because of poverty--

I was born to poverty. My parents were broke when they had me. We're still not doing great, but we live in a house in a nice area instead of in an apartment in a drugged out welfare neighborhood now. Lots of people overcome poverty.

And adoption is a fine option. Except that people chose the "beautiful" and the others are forced either to grow up in adoption, or shuffled around. Of course we could fix the situation by allowing gays to more readily adopt... but I guess a kid growing up with two spinster "aunts" or two bachelaur "uncles" is morally bad, instead of thinking about the repucusions of not letting them being adopted by loving families... But I'm off subject. I return...

I agree. Hooray for gay adoption. Any parent is preferable to the system. And also we need to lower the standards. The age and money requirements are too ridiculous. We have plenty of good parents who want to adopt and are turned down.

You should start caring for the people outside the womb.

But I could say atleast that only one person dies... instead of two... with my decision.
The same cannot be said for yours.

But with our decision less people die period. Your decision has a much higher death count than ours.

At 4/30/06 05:50 AM, Redbob86 wrote: This petition will help stop tax-payer funding to Planned Parenthood. I just signed it, it's a good cause.
http://www.stopplann..thoodtaxfunding.com/

I'm going to make a petition to stop AIDS. I dislike it.

At 5/1/06 03:28 PM, WolvenBear wrote: They're both illegal, they both cause damage to the body, and they will both continue even if we keep/make them illegal. But seeing as druggies survive and the babies don't...yea abortions worse.

Abortion isn't illegal, and babies don't die - fetuses die.

At 4/30/06 02:39 PM, The_Tank wrote: You know whats a choice, sex is a choice. And if you choose to have sex you could alway choose to wear a condom, and if you choose to wear a condemn and you still get pregnant you could choose to put the baby up for adoption. And that is where choice should end. At no point should anyone have the option to take someone elses life, I don't care if their scared to tell their parents, that is not nearly a decent excuse to commit murder. It's a babies life, not a mothers choice. It's just plain murder.

I agree 100%, and I would sign the thing if I was allowed, but I'm under 18, and I dont know if minors are allowed

At 5/1/06 03:45 PM, pretentious_asshat wrote: Abortion isn't illegal, and babies don't die - fetuses die.

I'm aware abortion is legal. Thanks.

And a fetus is a baby. Thanks for living up to your name!

At 5/1/06 03:51 PM, mofomojo wrote: It's interesting that you say this, since most infants can't pass the self-awareness test (ability to recognize oneself and one's own actions in a mirror) until almost after the age of two.

And? Sometimes alzheimer patients have that problem too. And coma patients fail that test too. Self-awareness is not a requirement for life.

Ends a sentient life? Yeah, yeah it does. It ends the sentient life of the embryo; does it end the conscious life? No; because the conscious life has not yet begun and therefore your argument is partially invalid.

Not really.

So, until the infant reaches the age of two; it does not have a properly functioning conscious mind. A death means nothing without the loss of a mind and a character. Of course, you could argue that we would miss out on what could be; but this is pointless since one can never predict the future.

Doesn't matter. In the womb it is already exploring itself, sucking its thumbs. And just because it's not very bright, doesn't mean it's not a unique life with unique potential. Part of the "life liberty and persuit of happiness" crap.

It's interesting that you say this, since most infants can't pass the self-awareness test (ability to recognize oneself and one's own actions in a mirror) until almost after the age of two.

My cousin, could talk well eat by herself, run, and was even pottie trained before 2, so I'm almost sure she would be able to recognize herself in a mirror.

And what makes this test so important, if this test were acurate, then your saying we should kill all the blind people

Ends a sentient life? Yeah, yeah it does. It ends the sentient life of the embryo; does it end the conscious life? No; because the conscious life has not yet begun and therefore your argument is partially invalid.

how do you know, do you remember being 1yr old?

So, until the infant reaches the age of two; it does not have a properly functioning conscious mind. A death means nothing without the loss of a mind and a character. Of course, you could argue that we would miss out on what could be; but this is pointless since one can never predict the future.

makes no sense, so your saying, that if i killed you, it wouldn't matter becuase no one could predict YOUR FUTURE!?!?!?