America = Facist Nation?

[Buddhist]

Coincidence, or fact?

Following the universal basises of Facism, you can see how our current US Government and Facism are related.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Examples: 9/11 Hype, Support Our Troops Stickers, Freedom Fries

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Examples: Guantanamo Bay, Abu Gharaib, CIA Secret Detention Centers

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Examples: War On Terror, War on Drugs, War on Pornography, War on Piracy, Mexican Immigrant Crisis, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Examples: Iraq War, Pat Tillman, Lori Piestewa

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

Examples: Pervasive sexuality in pop culture media, missing young women, teacher sex scandals, Anti-Gay Marriage laws in States

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Examples: RIAA, MPAA, Fox News, etc.

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Example: Post-9/11 Foriegn Policy

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Examples: Evangelical Neo-Conservatives

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Examples: Gas Prices & Oil Profits, Halliburton, RIAA, MPAA

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Example: No minimum wage increases in over a decade, tax cuts for the wealthy, bankruptcy law changes.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

Examples: Attacks on evolution, global warming, stem cell research.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Examples: Various laws, most recently the law that, if passed, will put a downloader in jail for 10 years, even if it was a failed attempt at downloading a movie.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Examples: Abramoff, Tom DeLay, Libby

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Examples: 2000 Presidential Election

----
This brings to mind two George Orwell quotes I recall well.

The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

[Buddhist]

At 4/27/06 06:05 PM, Grammer wrote: I'm sorry but that one killed it for you. Since most intelligent people know the 2000 election wasn't staged, I guess America doesn't fit the description of a fascist nation :(

When did I say it was staged?

Staged /= Fraudulent. Two very different words and ideas.

[HighlyIllogical]

Where'd you copy that from? It's not a facist nation-you can post stuff like that.

[MortifiedPenguins]

Hey look, another intelligent user thats making the claim that America is a fascist nation.

Man how often do we see these nowadays.

[Politics]

I can summarize my entire argument in a few words:

Drama queen, much?

[HighlyIllogical]

At 4/27/06 06:35 PM, YankeeFli wrote: Hey look, another intelligent user

/sarcasm/, I take it?

[sdhonda]

The US is nowhere near as controlling as Italy or Germany were.

[zendahl]

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: 10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Example: No minimum wage increases in over a decade, tax cuts for the wealthy, bankruptcy law changes.

We just rased minimum wage last month, unions continue as strong as ever (we almost had a garbage strike in Seattle, ailine strikes have been a fairly popular threat lateley, ect...), and bankrupsy laws have only changed to exclude credit card debt as this falls under fraud laws.

[zendahl]

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: 14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Examples: 2000 Presidential Election

Bush was legaly elected by the electoral college. No fraud involved. All presidents are elected by them. Our vote is supposed to infuence them, but it won't always work like that. Abraham Lincoln was also elected against popular vote. The 2000 election was not fraudulant, or popular.

[Penal-Disturbance]

Those were done after the whole War on Terror thing, but they still show some interesting parallels.

Technically speaking, America *is* a Fascist nation moreso than not. People go on about "Freedom" yet don't like an awful lot of Social freedoms, except for gun ownership of course, which is apparently a *social* freedom now.

If you check political compass, it puts Bush and various other leads up on the Authoratarian side of things, pretty heftily so.

Not good. The U.S., and most of the rest of the world for that matter, needs to shape up, badly.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 4/27/06 07:07 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

Not good. The U.S., and most of the rest of the world for that matter, needs to shape up, badly.

Shape what up may I ask?

[ImmoralLibertarian]

Yes. The others had a point. I don’t think we should be asking if America is fascist nation, because it might resemble one sometimes but it’s not.

We should be asking is the USA truly the ‘greatest democracy’ in the world.

[Defile]

I wouldn't call the United States a fascist nation; it may have made some steps in the direction since 2000, but it's not quite there yet.

Sexism isn't a national policy; it might be ingrained our culture, but if anything it has lessened over time.

The government doesn't control the media. Any bias in the press is a result of those reporting, not forced on them. FOX News would be overconservative without the Bush administration's encouragement. There are enough media sources critical of the government that I would say this should be a nonissue.

The 2000 election wasn't fraudulent, even if i wish it was. It only shows that the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 4/27/06 07:01 PM, zendahl wrote:

We just rased minimum wage last month

A federal increase?

And about your comments about the electoral college: That's not the problem, the problem was the fraud WITHIN Florida.

[JorNcar]

good observation buddhist..

something else to add, is that facist's usually are anti communist

and!!!!

america is very very very anti communist.

ex
cold war, phrase "damn commies"

thats very minor though

[Stick-Fox]

The USA is FAR from a facist nation. If its so bad, leave the country (if you are a USA citizen) untill the next election.

ELECTIONS!!!! <---The reason why we are a DEMOCRACY! <3

[HighlyIllogical]

It's really funny---->How is the united states facist if there are people criticising Bush and the government each and every day, yet don't get locked up and/or killed?

[Nylo]

I tend to disagree. The United States isn't a facist nation, but shows the seedlings of one. I see the Bush Administration as America's test. How we handle this presidency and, most importantly, who we elect to fix what we see wrong will determine, truly, whether America is on the road to progressively becoming a facist nation.

[Indian-Wrestler]

according to the Medevil Book "The Prince" its better to rule by fear than by love, if we were nice, we wouldn't be that great of a country.

and if you don't like it....
Move to Canada

OHHHH WAIT....Canada has a Socialist Health System

[Me-Patch]

You people do realize wer'e having an election in 08. Since when does a facist ruler hold an election you tools.

[therealsylvos]

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: Coincidence, or fact?

Following the universal basises of Facism, you can see how our current US Government and Facism are related.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Examples: 9/11 Hype, Support Our Troops Stickers, Freedom Fries

are you nuts, your saying we should ignore 9/11, and not support our troops? the freedom fries i agree with you but thatr was samll minority

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Examples: Guantanamo Bay, Abu Gharaib, CIA Secret Detention Centers

**cough**human**cough**

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Examples: War On Terror, War on Drugs, War on Pornography, War on Piracy, Mexican Immigrant Crisis, etc.

this just keeps on getting better, we should ignore terrorism,expose young children to pornorgraphy,allow people to get as doped up as much as they like and allow illegal mexicans to get a welfare check yet pay no taxes?

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Examples: Iraq War, Pat Tillman, Lori Piestewa

oh so your saying that someone who gave up a multi-million dollar contract to serve his country should be spat on? you make me sick

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

Examples: Pervasive sexuality in pop culture media, missing young women, teacher sex scandals, Anti-Gay Marriage laws in States

1. you want us to supress free speech to become less fascist? 2. half of those teacher sex scandals the female is the teacher.3. you seem to forget that most people dont want a pro-gay marrige law.

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Examples: RIAA, MPAA, Fox News, etc.

haha. the government doesnt control fox news dipshit. consider that pbs is actually owned and operated by the government and does not lean toward the president at all.

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Example: Post-9/11 Foriegn Policy

i just dont understand, you would rather ignore an obvious threat?

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Examples: Evangelical Neo-Conservatives

so you want anyone that is religious at all to not be able to run for office?

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Examples: Gas Prices & Oil Profits, Halliburton, RIAA, MPAA

read the bussiness news 9 ceo's are going down because they had their gas prices too high.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Example: No minimum wage increases in over a decade, tax cuts for the wealthy, bankruptcy law changes.

the wealthy spend more and then boost the economy, the more we give the more they spend. i wont even get into why they should get a tax cut from a non-economic perspective.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

Examples: Attacks on evolution, global warming, stem cell research.

wait you want any theory put out by science to be thought of automatically as true, in the intrest of sciuence? jesus your a retard.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -

what do you want? if there is a huge problem that is just not being stopped the only to stop it is to enforce strict punishment.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -

Examples: Abramoff, Tom DeLay, Libby

actually thats more of a "politics" then "fascist"

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Examples: 2000 Presidential Election

jesus christ. read the fucking constitution before making accusations and you wont sound like a dumbass.

asswipe.

[Nylo]

At 4/27/06 09:04 PM, The_Tank wrote: You people do realize wer'e having an election in 08. Since when does a facist ruler hold an election you tools.

Since the ruler was able to completely tell congress to fuck off and do whatever he wants via executive order.

[Nylo]

At 4/27/06 09:05 PM, therealsylvos wrote: haha. the government doesnt control fox news dipshit.

No, they just hire their news anylists to become the Press Secretary of the United States.

the wealthy spend more and then boost the economy, the more we give the more they spend. i wont even get into why they should get a tax cut from a non-economic perspective.

Ah the trickle down theory. You've got full time workers that can't even afford gas to get to work, but by all means, tax them more. We wouldn't want the rich to stop shopping.

[Me-Patch]

At 4/27/06 09:06 PM, Nylo wrote:

At 4/27/06 09:04 PM, The_Tank wrote: You people do realize wer'e having an election in 08. Since when does a facist ruler hold an election you tools.

Since the ruler was able to completely tell congress to fuck off and do whatever he wants via executive order.

Executive Order has been in the constitution for decades honey, it's been put into effect by every American president since it was employed.

[Nylo]

At 4/27/06 09:16 PM, The_Tank wrote: Executive Order has been in the constitution for decades honey, it's been put into effect by every American president since it was employed.

The point was that his presidency is tainted with using it when congress has said "wow, that would a really stupid idea". Not that the executive order was a path to tyranny by itself.

[MagnumPrimers]

America is not a facist nation. We're a republic/democrocy.

[zendahl]

At 4/27/06 08:41 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: And about your comments about the electoral college: That's not the problem, the problem was the fraud WITHIN Florida.

There was no fraud, it was confusing ballots that lead people to vote wrong. That was there own fault for not taking extra time to figure it out and punch the hole corectly. The other problem was some people didn't punch the hole completly and the machines would not be able to read them. I fail to see any fraud. And even if there was fraud in a state election, it wouldn't mater, the president is not elected by us, never has been. Our votes are supposed to influence the college, but they are free to vote how they want. They just risk not being reelected the next time around if they go against popular vote.

[Guitarmy]

This is a brilliant post. But I'd like to point out that the two major parties of the united states both recieve funds from the EXACT SAME CORPORATIONS, they're just pawns, a front. Our democracy is more of a joke than you made it to be. You know that it is more illegal to hit a police officer than a regular citizen? How the fuck is that fair? You guys may attack the right to bare arms, but it is the most important law we have because it allows us to be able to fight off a fascist regime.

[Kaith]

Good Christ, you're entire POST is crap. Isn't there some kind of award for "I can't pull my head out of my ass" or something? Let's deconstruct this crap.

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: Coincidence, or fact?

Following the universal basises of Facism, you can see how our current US Government and Facism are related.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -

So does France, Germany, England, Italy, Spain, Portugul, Morroco, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Brazil, Venezula, and Australia. Those are places I've visited personally, not wikipediaed up some goofy definition.

Lack of such things is usually found mostly in splintered and broken governments.

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -

Let's see. You're seriously going to compare Abu Ghraib to death camps? Look, let's be honest. Is some ill crap happening, sure. But I bet you can find the same in other countries that aren't the US. And I don't mean China.

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -

Examples: War On Terror, War on Drugs, War on Pornography, War on Piracy, Mexican Immigrant Crisis, etc.

This doesn't make any sense. The war on drugs is becuase drug use is collapsing our medical infrastructure. War on PIRACY? You have a problem with that, or having illegal immigrants controlled? You call that FACIST? You are an anarchist.

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: 4. Supremacy of the Military -

Examples: Iraq War, Pat Tillman, Lori Piestewa

Pat Tillman was a case of incompetance. The rest of that made no sense whatsoever.

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: 5. Rampant Sexism -

Examples: Pervasive sexuality in pop culture media, missing young women, teacher sex scandals, Anti-Gay Marriage laws in States

So, wait : are you saying we're wanting our women barefoot and pregnant, or that they're all nymphos? Make up your damned mind.

At 4/27/06 06:02 PM, -Buddhist- wrote: 6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Examples: RIAA, MPAA, Fox News, etc.

HAHAHAAH. Ha ha ha....yeah, the NYTimes and CNN are really controlled by the government. No one bothers listening to Faux News.

I'm not even gonna bother with the rest of these.

You can make a case out of anything, and prosecute a ham sandwich, sir. I bow to you.

[torvus1]

I personally think America is not Fascist but is showing traits of Fascism such as ignoring the UN and going to war against Iraq alongside Britain and Italy BREAKING UN law, taking away basic rights such as the right for homosexual marriages and abortions. This is entirely unfair gay people have the right to marriage the same as any other heterosexual person and if abortions were made illegal, determined pregnant women would find other more dangerous and unhealthy ways to have an abortion, wouldn't it be safer to do it in a hospital or clinic with professional help instead of in a small trailer and a hot poking iron.