No Proof For Immortality

[Wadger]

Most Religions are based on the concept of immortality, yes the body dies but they say the soul (or your conciousness) goes up to heaven. therefore you are not dead just out of your body. This is appealing to most people because they do not want to face the idea of death, so they bealive that you will never die and go to everlasting paradise.

but the only proof for immortality is one guy in a book called the bible

but you can hardly call this proof. for example 1 person out of the trillions and trillions of people ever to have died has come back to life. which could suggest a flaw in what was written perhaps he was in a coma and people did not realise.

but i think the most logical explination it was not true, for example all the evidence to suggest that he did come back to live is anecodtal. there is no concrete evidence.

this leads me to bealive that there is no imortality, and therefore if there is no imortality there is no point in worshiping.

notice i have no said if there is or not a devine being that created us. but if you take into account that i disproved imortality you do not need to worship because you are just going to die and you will not be rewarded.

i dont know why i made this topic but basically what im trying to say is

'why worry about what happens when you die, because you will be dead'

seems logical to me :D

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

The Church of the Subgenius has an "Eternal life or TRIPLE your money back!" guarantee. Since the basic cost is 30 bucks, you'd get 90 bucks back if you end up in hell. Imagine it, you're hot, there's fire everywhere and you feel miserable. You look up, and there's a guy selling snowcones. A man on fire runs past you shrieking. You feel a slight pressure on your behind, you spin around and realize you're not being violated. Your hand creeps back and you feel a bulge in your back pocket.

You reach in gingerly, and pull out $90 !!!! Hell yeah! The tortured souls begin to take notice that you're not looking too upset as you walk towards the snowcone man. You strut up and say with confidence "I'd like a grape snowcone!" The man scoffs and says, "Ha! It's 25 cents dumbass!" To which you reply. "Do you have change for a 90?"

The man notices your fortune, and his face droops. He takes your money, and with a defeated look in his face hands you the grape snowcone and a fresh $89.75 bill.

Think about it.

[altanese-mistress]

Of course there is no proof. For one, immortality means you never die, not that you die but part of you keeps living. Besides, religion relies on faith, and proof denies faith. But really, does it matter how much proof we have for or against a religion? People will always have beliefs based on faith.

[No-one-inparticular]

At 4/26/06 03:27 PM, Wadger wrote: Most Religions are based on the concept of immortality, yes the body dies but they say the soul (or your conciousness) goes up to heaven.

That's true

therefore you are not dead just out of your body. This is appealing to most people because they do not want to face the idea of death

So far, so good

so they bealive that you will never die and go to everlasting paradise.

But if the soul does exist, it exists in spite of our doubt in it.
If the soul exists independent of our belief, or lack therof, our unbelief doesn't negate it's reality. While it's true that it can't be seen, there are many things in the world that can't be seen( wind, for instance). I can't see wind, but that doesn't prove the nonexistance of wind.

This is besides the point, but have you ever seen snow get caught in an updraft of wind? Breath taking.

but the only proof for immortality is one guy in a book called the bible

There's probably proofs you haven't seen. If you've never seen a Great White, that alone isn't proof they don't exist.

but i think the most logical explination it was not true, for example all the evidence to suggest that he did come back to live is anecodtal. there is no concrete evidence.

There's no evidence to the contrary, either.

this leads me to bealive that there is no imortality, and therefore if there is no imortality there is no point in worshiping.

It's on a par with belief in immortality. Unknowns are tricky things

notice i have no said if there is or not a devine being that created us. but if you take into account that i disproved imortality

But you haven't disproved anything. I can invent proofs that I am a bullfrog, but that doesn't make it so.

you do not need to worship because you are just going to die and you will not be rewarded.

That's your opinion

[SolInvictus]

you do know your argument is based on ingorance; if there is no proof it doesn't exist. but either way, most of that is your opinion so eh. hehehe,if theres nothing after i can be a complete dickwad all life and not worry :D

[MortifiedPenguins]

Yah, seriously man that is so true.

That thing called faith, man that just can't explain any of this can it.

[No-one-inparticular]

At 4/26/06 07:45 PM, shi_huangdi wrote: you do know your argument is based on ingorance; if there is no proof it doesn't exist.

I was pointing out the foolishness of tryng to make a definitive tes\no statement about an unknown (the soul)

I am truly sorry if that is too lofty a concept for you.

and what's "ingorance"

[No-one-inparticular]

and before you point it out, yes, I misspelled "yes"

[callofdutyfreak]

This is an interesting topic. Just becuse there is no "concrete" proof, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I believe that your sould is your consience, that little guiding voice inside you.

There has to be something more to life than just, well, life right? Why would God create us (I'm catholic, believe in GOD) if this was all there is. I think there is a heaven and hell. For people that follow God's teachings, adn those that don't.

And by the way, it wasn't one guy. There are three main versions. Bible, Tora, Koran. And back to the proof thing, there have been countless visions of Mary, and angels, and even Jesus. Ever head of the Fatima visions? Mary appears to three sheppards in Portugal and predicts world war two, and several other major world events. Were all three of them having a hallucination at the same time? Were they just making it up for attention? If so, how was what they said so accurate?

There is a higher power ie: God. And i really think he rewards people for living the way he wants them to, and punishes them for the opposite.

[fallen-son]

i agree with you on everything accept in that u thougth jesus might have jsu been in a coma. if he did exist, and if he was crucified, there would be no chance of survival, u get nailed to a cross and a little step is placed under ur feet so u can still breath, but once they take away the little step at the bottom (after a day of hanging there) you wouldnt be able to breath. fucked up and un survivable, but whose to say they didnt jus make it up that he was crucified or maybe they got liek a look alike or somthing .

[SolInvictus]

At 4/26/06 08:09 PM, Steel_Reserve wrote: and before you point it out, yes, I misspelled "yes"

i wasn't responding to yours, i just felt like making a statement about the fallacy being used to argue by the thread maker.

[Politics]

At 4/26/06 03:27 PM, Wadger wrote: but i think the most logical explination it was not true, for example all the evidence to suggest that he did come back to live is anecodtal. there is no concrete evidence.

Argumentum ad ignorantiam

[BFG-Nine-Thousand]

Ultimately, whether or not there is an afterlife should not bear any weight on how we live our lives.

lolpostcount + +

[No-one-inparticular]

At 4/26/06 09:58 PM, shi_huangdi wrote:

At 4/26/06 08:09 PM, Steel_Reserve wrote: and before you point it out, yes, I misspelled "yes"

i wasn't responding to yours, i just felt like making a statement about the fallacy being used to argue by the thread maker.

Yea, I'm sorry for taking your statement out of context. I'm typing on like three hours sleep.

My most sincere apologies.

[Penal-Disturbance]

There isn't proof, but there is a logical conundrum.

Nothing has been found in our brains that we can call "conciousness". It CAN'T be a product or function of carbon compounds or electrical impulses since there's nothing about their properties that can cause something so drastically different to every day physics.

It's very hard to explain conciousness to someone who doesn't understand it, because we have no real frame of reference. It may not be impossible, however.

Conciousness isn't just being self aware. Let's put it like this - information goes from our arms into our brains. We can feel heat on our arms. Where does it go then? How do we "Know" our arms are hot? How can we "be" our brains? How does that even make sense? It's a computer, not a completely new form of matter.

Most people won't understand this, but until you do, I don't think it's fair to pretend like it isn't real.

So we do have something "New" that doesn't appear to be divisible in the same way matter is. Therefore, chances are, it can't be "destroyed" since nothing else we know can, and if it *is* a basic building block of the universe, which is very probable and an increasingly popular theory, then the case for "eternal life" of a sort is indeed a valid one.

Read this essay - http://www.swcp.com/..all98/close9802.html

It's very good.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

Think about it. Snowcones in hell.

[Kaith]

I think that there are two ways to look at it.

One, it is a logical mistake to assert that because a phenomenon is unexplained by current scientific theories, it is necessarily unexplainable by science. We have no proof of (insert your religious afterlife theory here), but that does not make it false.

We have no solid PROOF that dark matter or dark energy exist but we take it on faith in observed phenomena that they do. Well, the observed phenomena in immortality is, by it's nature, rather hard to fucking observe. We don't know.

Two, apply the Precautionary Principle , FFS. If there isn't immortality, who cares, you're meat! But if there is and you miss out on it because you wanna hit some more tail , then you get what you deserve.

[Altarus]

but the only proof for immortality is one guy in a book called the bible

Lots of people wrote the Bible, not just one guy. Plus, what about the eye witness accounts of supernatural phenomena, near-death experiences, etc.?

[Wadger]

At 4/28/06 05:18 PM, Wyrlum wrote:

but the only proof for immortality is one guy in a book called the bible

Lots of people wrote the Bible, not just one guy. Plus, what about the eye witness accounts of supernatural phenomena, near-death experiences, etc.?

no not one person writing the bible the one guy in it ie jesus.

but let me contextualise what im trying to say.

if a man tells everyone he went walking in the forest and saw a man die an buried him, then came back the next day and the corpse was gone, then weeks later he met him in real life you wouldnt bealive it would you.

[RedSkunk]

At 4/28/06 09:05 AM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote: Think about it. Snowcones in hell.

woh.

[LazyDrunk]

If your consciousness is all that survives your bodily death, physical sensation will cease, and only a solitary thought pattern will continue.

But your soul (consciousness) doesn't leave your body. It stays untilit fizzles out. That fizzling out may seem like forever, and you want it to, because when it's gone you're dead, and depending how happy you've lived your life, that will be the last, and therefore "bliss" before you die.

In other words, behave so when you die you can go happy and others won't be pissed as well.

lol

[MagnumPrimers]

You can't prove everything with science.

[altanese-mistress]

At 5/3/06 07:59 PM, Magnumprimers wrote: You can't prove everything with science.

Yes you can; we're just nowhere near answering it all yet.

[Gtd-Orion]

Quick question , what logical explantion and proff do you have that it is not possible, assumbtions only make an as out of you and me, bitch

[SolInvictus]

holy christ, how can you stand knowing you just used that saying

[The-Dran]

At 4/26/06 07:33 PM, Steel_Reserve wrote:

At 4/26/06 03:27 PM, Wadger wrote: Most Religions are based on the concept of immortality, yes the body dies but they say the soul (or your conciousness) goes up to heaven.

That's true

Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in stuff like that or exactly like that. Not all religions believe you live in the clouds. The Buddhist and Hindu, believe you return to life and begin again as a living being. They believe in cycles, which makes a lot of sense because nearly everything works in a cycle.

I'm quite sure nearly everything works in a cycle of some sort. Even food works in a cycle.

Plants use nutrients and solar light and Carbon Dioxide to make energy. Animals eat the plants and gain the energy, animals eat those animals, like humans eat cows. And then those animals die and decompose by bacteria to become new fresh soil with nutrients for plants to feed off of. So almost everything I can think of works in a cycle.

therefore you are not dead just out of your body. This is appealing to most people because they do not want to face the idea of death

So far, so good

Well in some religions. Death is said to just be a part of life. That the soul most leave it's host in order to begin again and to free it's self of the impurities it picked up in it's previous life. That's no different than changing a vacuum cleaner. You vaccum up the floor (life), you empty the containment (death), you put in a new one after you are done (reincarnation).

But how does that work?

:Two of the main causes of aging have been attributed to:

Declining levels of vital biological elements and Oxidative stress

Internally, our organs begin to shrink, become less active and produce fewer hormones and other vital bodily elements. When we are young, our hormones work together to regulate many bodily functions. Hormones are vital for repairing and regulating our body, and when aging causes a drop in hormone production, it causes a decline in our body's ability to repair and regulate itself. The aging of our internal organs and decline in vital bodily elements causes a slowdown of our metabolism, a reduction in libido, frail bones, a reduction in mobility and compromises our immune system.

"Oxidative stress" is a term used to describe the aging process taking place inside our bodies. It is caused by free radicals attacking the structure of cells and destroying them. When we are young, the effects of free radicals are minor since the body has extensive repair and replacement mechanisms that function to keep cells and organs in working order. With age, the accumulated effects of free radical damage begin to take their toll. Damage from free radicals causes the deterioration of internal organs as well as age spots and wrinkles, especially on the face.

Oxidative stress is a result of oxygen particles interacting with our cell's structure. But we need oxygen to break down nutrients, so we can use energy to live. But by this we are mortalizing ourselves. And such the body breaks down and dies. But what happens to the spirit or soul? Well the spirit can't die. It's existence works outside the bounds of the living. So doesn't requir the breaking of molecules to live. But it does require to live in order to establish an existence.

But what is a soul?

Souls are the very disturbance that allows matter to enact the ways that it does. It is impossible to examine a soul critically, because souls are not made of particles. And without a materialistic form, you cannot critically prove their existence. But there is one thing to understand, and that is yourself. You are a soul that uses spiritual energy to operate a fixation of physical components into a network of emotional and psychological principles that make up yourself. The so called "spiritual energy" is the interaction the soul has with the matter around it. Your soul interacts with the matter around it by establishing nerological signals to your body. The soul by the way is situated in the center fold of the brain. And consists of a shape with no dimensions, for it does not comprise of matter. You could find evidence of it's existence if you critically analyze the human brain. But... there will always be a means to discrediting such. Because everything that isn't 100% proven, can be criticized.

so they bealive that you will never die and go to everlasting paradise.

But if the soul does exist, it exists in spite of our doubt in it.

The soul exists without 100% proven evidence, because it is not made of matter. There is no way to detail it with our five senses that come from our body.

This is besides the point, but have you ever seen snow get caught in an updraft of wind? Breath taking.

Your emphasis on Breath taking, is just your reaction to it of it being beautiful or whatever. My reaction would be different.

but the only proof for immortality is one guy in a book called the bible

There's probably proofs you haven't seen. If you've never seen a Great White, that alone isn't proof they don't exist.

I've never seen the White House, but I know it exists.

but i think the most logical explination it was not true, for example all the evidence to suggest that he did come back to live is anecodtal. there is no concrete evidence.

There's no evidence to the contrary, either.

this leads me to bealive that there is no imortality, and therefore if there is no imortality there is no point in worshiping.

It's on a par with belief in immortality. Unknowns are tricky things

notice i have not said if there is or not a devine being that created us. but if you take into account that i disproved imortality

But you haven't disproved anything. I can invent proofs that I am a bullfrog, but that doesn't make it so.

I guess he never heard of artificial life or that there is always advancements in technology.

you do not need to worship because you are just going to die and you will not be rewarded.

Actually you will be rewarded, I guess you are just upset, because you don't understand how your life is so horrible. I guess you fail understand that the actions you do in life equal the torment that is experienced in what lies beyond. And until you understand such, you are doomed to this hellish nightmare of yours.

[Jerconjake]

At 4/26/06 03:27 PM, Wadger wrote: Most Religions are based on the concept of immortality, yes the body dies but they say the soul (or your conciousness) goes up to heaven. therefore you are not dead just out of your body. This is appealing to most people because they do not want to face the idea of death, so they bealive that you will never die and go to everlasting paradise.

The human form is matter. Matter is energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed.

[Tervos]

though i have no evidence, i do have a theory. get this. ok, many ask "where did life come from?" many answer, "from earlier life before that" "and what about them, where did they come from?" "they started out when the world was formed when the solar system was made." "how did that happen?" "through the big bang" "ok but where did the matter for the big bang come from? had to come from somewhere." my theory is that God made it. do i have proof? no. none at all. but, although i'm sure it's possible, how does one argue with that in the logical sense?

[altanese-mistress]

At 5/4/06 01:13 AM, Tervos wrote: but, although i'm sure it's possible, how does one argue with that in the logical sense?

The big bang happened when all matter in the universe was squeezed together into a an extremly tight space, probably no bigger than a pin-point. Two atoms hit each other at extremly fast speeds, like speed of light fast.

Now you may ask 'then what was before that' The answer is nothing. And its hard to explain why, but; to ask what was 'before' the big bang is pointless, because time and space did not exist; it was infinity wrapped in the nanosecond that all that matter was still compressed when the universe began to form.

[peedee]

I like the Doctors idea of an 89.75 dollar bill.