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Transsexuality, from what I've observed, is because you feel uncomfortable as a male/female and feel like you should be the opposite gender. Nothing wrong with that!

Is -poxpower- the only one who bothered to read my link?

At 4/23/06 01:45 AM, altanese_mistress wrote:

At 4/22/06 08:24 PM, YankeeFli wrote:

What these people are doing is freaky.
Instead of mearly accepting who they are and what they are, there mutilating and destroying what God hs given them because of thier problem.

Some people are born with both types of sex organs, though, Yankee.

Ah, God hates them.

Yankee never said that, mistress. You're putting words in his mouth.
I personally think God hates nobody and loves all, but that is a debate for another thread.

Also: After skimming through this thread (and thinking of a few others), I just have to comment on Penal:

Penal, your heart is in the right place, but your arguing skills are bad. You can NOT win a point by resorting to cheap insults and ignoring valid points. And the hipocrisy of it all when you jump on people for insulting you and disagreeing with you....

I couldn't resist the urge to correct your grammer, mistress.

I am the grammer nazi! Heil me!

I'm sleepy and silly. Don't pay attention to me.

At 4/23/06 02:10 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote: I couldn't resist the urge to correct your grammer, mistress.

It was just one word. And besides that, YOU are wrong too; its 'hypocricy'

At 4/23/06 02:16 AM, altanese_mistress wrote:

At 4/23/06 02:10 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote: I couldn't resist the urge to correct your grammer, mistress.

It was just one word. And besides that, YOU are wrong too; its 'hypocricy'

We're BOTH wrong

At 4/23/06 02:23 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote:

At 4/23/06 02:16 AM, altanese_mistress wrote:

At 4/23/06 02:10 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote: I couldn't resist the urge to correct your grammer, mistress.

It was just one word. And besides that, YOU are wrong too; its 'hypocricy'

We're BOTH wrong

Internet searches are full of mis-spelled words because people can't spell. It's with two Cs. Try that very same search with the C instead of S and you'll get dictionaries.

At 4/23/06 02:27 AM, altanese_mistress wrote: Internet searches are full of mis-spelled words because people can't spell. It's with two Cs. Try that very same search with the C instead of S and you'll get dictionaries.

Eh, sorry; you were right; one C. Didn't look at all of what they had to say on Ask, and I went with Dictionary.com and Wikipedia.

At 4/23/06 02:27 AM, altanese_mistress wrote:
Internet searches are full of mis-spelled words because people can't spell. It's with two Cs. Try that very same search with the C instead of S and you'll get dictionaries.

Fine, fine. I concede.

But back on on topic, what do YOU, a transgendered person, think it is going to take for people like yourself to gain acceptance in this (or any) country?

At 4/23/06 02:32 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote: But back on on topic, what do YOU, a transgendered person, think it is going to take for people like yourself to gain acceptance in this (or any) country?

It takes time, like anyone else. Race, religion; right now we have 'sexuality'. One day it will be self-aware machines and extra-terrestrials, and it will keep going until everyone is accepted. Except Mexicans, they'll never be accepted.

At 4/23/06 02:35 AM, altanese_mistress wrote: ...Except Mexicans, they'll never be accepted.

Nice to see you have a nice personality--
Anyways...

Wait.
So you're transgendered.

The transvestite or transsexual type?

At 4/23/06 01:45 AM, altanese_mistress wrote:

At 4/22/06 08:24 PM, YankeeFli wrote: Why, they are freaks. Thier mutaliting thier bodies for thier little condition.

How does it hurt you if there are people who want to change their bodies and increase their self-esteem?

Did I ever say that they should stop. No.
I am mearly saying what they are doing is freaky.
Thus the reason for freaks.

Instead of finding whatever inner strength that they have and coming to terms with who they are, they think they can change everything with surgury.

A mutation?

If homosexuality is caused by some sort of genetic imbalance in the brain it would be a slight mutation.

Ah, God hates them.

Why would God hate them. God hates no one.

At 4/22/06 08:24 PM, YankeeFli wrote:

At 4/22/06 07:27 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

At 4/22/06 04:42 PM, YankeeFli wrote:

At 4/22/06 04:06 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

When you typed "little freaks", did anything click in your mind to tell you "fucking hell I'm a horrible human being"? Because it really should have.

Why, they are freaks. Thier mutaliting thier bodies for thier little condition.

I can accept gays to a point. I feel that they have a slight mutation.

What these people are doing is freaky.
Instead of mearly accepting who they are and what they are, there mutilating and destroying what God hs given them because of thier problem.

That is a freak.

Every piece of scientific research on the matter disagrees with you completely. Transsexuality is not a "choice" except how to go about it, and there has been an extremely low success rate of people "accepting who they are". Not that you give a shit about people's lives or happiness, you're blinded by religious bigotry to an extreme degree. Either accept it, or accept that you're a delusional hate-driven freak.

At 4/23/06 08:42 AM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

At 4/22/06 08:24 PM, YankeeFli wrote:

At 4/22/06 07:27 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

At 4/22/06 04:42 PM, YankeeFli wrote:

At 4/22/06 04:06 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

Every piece of scientific research on the matter disagrees with you completely. Transsexuality is not a "choice" except how to go about it, and there has been an extremely low success rate of people "accepting who they are". Not that you give a shit about people's lives or happiness, you're blinded by religious bigotry to an extreme degree. Either accept it, or accept that you're a delusional hate-driven freak.

Did I ever say it wasn't a choice. No, I didn't. I'm calling the ones freaks that mutilate thier bodies in the goal to be happier. And I'm not aware either when I brough god into this. When, when did I start quoting biblical passages. The most I mearly said is that thier tampering with what god gave them.

And I think your the one who is delusional. Anyone that doesn't agree with your opinion is either a big or a hate driven freak.

Maybe you should learn that arguments aren't one by name calling which you excell in. Maybe you should learn that people don't have your opinions in life.

At 4/23/06 05:35 AM, fli wrote: Wait.
So you're transgendered.

The transvestite or transsexual type?

Transsexual. Hoping for transvestite one day.

At 4/23/06 07:58 AM, YankeeFli wrote: Did I ever say that they should stop. No.
I am mearly saying what they are doing is freaky.
Thus the reason for freaks.

By mearly calling them freaks, you're implying they should stop.

Instead of finding whatever inner strength that they have and coming to terms with who they are, they think they can change everything with surgury.

They DO come to terms with who they are, and THAT is why they feel so uncomfortable with their bodies. Is it any different from plastic surgery due to vainity rather than a dysfunction?

If homosexuality is caused by some sort of genetic imbalance in the brain it would be a slight mutation.

Thats a big 'if'

Why would God hate them. God hates no one.

Supposedly, not the Abrahamic God, which is the one I suppose you're refering to. I would gladly argue that, but not in this thread.

At 4/23/06 07:58 AM, YankeeFli wrote:

Did I ever say that they should stop. No.
I am mearly saying what they are doing is freaky.
Thus the reason for freaks.

It's because they're uncomfortable in their bodies. That's not something to be ridiculed!

At 4/23/06 10:56 AM, altanese_mistress wrote:

At 4/23/06 05:35 AM, fli wrote:

At 4/23/06 07:58 AM, YankeeFli wrote:

By mearly calling them freaks, you're implying they should stop.

With all the operations and drugs, yes I think they should stop with that.

They DO come to terms with who they are, and THAT is why they feel so uncomfortable with their bodies. Is it any different from plastic surgery due to vainity rather than a dysfunction?

I'm against plastic surgery due to vanity just as much because they are changing what they were given.
They were made that way for a reason come to terms with who you are and accept what you are.
Going through an operation to find happiness doesn't work, your still a guy/girl with mutilated genitals.

Thats a big 'if'

Unless you think homosexuality is a choice.

At 4/23/06 11:14 AM, YankeeFli wrote: With all the operations and drugs, yes I think they should stop with that.

Exactly. So don't tell me 'whoah I never said they should stop I just don't like what the little freaks are doing'

I'm against plastic surgery due to vanity just as much because they are changing what they were given.

Given by whom? And don't say 'God wants them like that' because God is a different thing to everyone.

They were made that way for a reason come to terms with who you are and accept what you are.

What reason?

And we DO accept who we are. Which is why we don't like WHAT we are. I ask you again; how does it hurt you?

Going through an operation to find happiness doesn't work, your still a guy/girl with mutilated genitals.

You don't get it, do you? Most of the time its not the body itself, its the societal role and the things expected of them. Women certainly have it better in this respect.

The point is; by doing this people get a fresh start, a clean slate.They drop their societal role and pick up a new one with body and mind in sync.

Unless you think homosexuality is a choice.

Thats a whole other argument.

Well, in my personal opinion I agree with whomever said the people who change their gender are freaks.

On another note, if they have the money they can go ahead and have an operation rectifying the matter without interference from the Government or a lobbying group.

What I am truly afraid of is the left-wingers are going to try and waste our tax dollars on getting this people sex change operations if they aren't able to afford it themselves.

Penal probably started this thread on how we should be accepting or something of that matter. So I'll say, I believe you shouldn't hate others based on their opinions on this matter or those who have changed their sex. You can still think negatively, but don't let that determine your actions, like in violent crimes or trying to stop others.

At 4/23/06 11:26 AM, altanese_mistress wrote:

At 4/23/06 11:14 AM, YankeeFli wrote:

Exactly. So don't tell me 'whoah I never said they should stop I just don't like what the little freaks are doing'

I want them to stop. Yes.
Shoud they stop. Not up to me, my opinion doesn't affect the rest of the country.

Given by whom? And don't say 'God wants them like that' because God is a different thing to everyone.

But since this argument is based of of my opinion and my own thoughts I indeed think god wanted them like that.

What reason?

Maybe it's a test of sorts, a trial by fire type of deal.

And we DO accept who we are. Which is why we don't like WHAT we are. I ask you again; how does it hurt you?

Did I ever say I want it illegal no.
Can I disagree with something but still tolerate it, Yes.

There's a lot of things in this country that I don't like but still put up with.

The point is; by doing this people get a fresh start, a clean slate.They drop their societal role and pick up a new one with body and mind in sync.

If it's a good surgery. I a person can't tell, then yes they get what they want.

At 4/23/06 09:09 AM, YankeeFli wrote: Did I ever say it wasn't a choice. No, I didn't. I'm calling the ones freaks that mutilate thier bodies in the goal to be happier. And I'm not aware either when I brough god into this. When, when did I start quoting biblical passages. The most I mearly said is that thier tampering with what god gave them.

So in otherwords you're saying it IS a choice. I don't think you realise what a "choice" is. Chosing not to go through with therapy would result in a lifetime of misery. Is that really a choice? If it's a choice, then why does almost nobody chose against it?

And how the hell is that NOT bringing God into it? Why is it that most *nature based* religions don't have a problem with transsexuality, but many supposed Abrahamic believers(or Xians anyway) do?

And I think your the one who is delusional. Anyone that doesn't agree with your opinion is either a big or a hate driven freak.

Bullshit. You're the one who hasn't offered anything, a single shred, to demonstrate how your claims are in any way solid.

I call bigotted, unbacked, illogical or overly emotionally weighted opinions bullshit.

Maybe you should learn that arguments aren't one by name calling which you excell in. Maybe you should learn that people don't have your opinions in life.

That's not an excuse for being an idiot, and calling people freaks without anything to back up your shitfaced little "Opinions". End of.

What I am truly afraid of is the left-wingers are going to try and waste our tax dollars on getting this people sex change operations if they aren't able to afford it themselves.

Excuse me, how would that be "wasting" tax dollars? It's a birth defect like any other, but one that causes immense pain. In someone couldn't afford an operation to cure their misshapen body, which may one day kill them, would you say the same? There are few things more emotionally crippling that being the wrong sex, and few things that lead to a higher rate of suicide. Transsexuals are 1 in 10000; let's say an operation including any other therapy costs 10000(probably an exageration), it will cost the general public in any given scenario about ONE dollar/euro/whatever each to fix this. If you're too inhumane to donate that because you don't "agree" with them(putting your own beliefs and a single dollar above human suffering counts you as inhumane in my book).

And not all of them are going to get the operation even, but seek hormonal therapy. And you could cahrge them for 1/4 of the operation, or a progressive system if you'd rather only pay half a dollar.

"Right-wingers" apparently have no problem with humans being tortured by inaction, though.

At 4/23/06 11:49 AM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

At 4/23/06 09:09 AM, YankeeFli wrote:

So in otherwords you're saying it IS a choice. I don't think you realise what a "choice" is. Chosing not to go through with therapy would result in a lifetime of misery. Is that really a choice? If it's a choice, then why does almost nobody chose against it?

It is a physical choice to go through with plastic surgery, and to injest supplements.

And how the hell is that NOT bringing God into it? Why is it that most *nature based* religions don't have a problem with transsexuality, but many supposed Abrahamic believers(or Xians anyway) do?

Have you looked at what nature based religions believe.

Bullshit. You're the one who hasn't offered anything, a single shred, to demonstrate how your claims are in any way solid.

And what are my claims.
That I don't like the surgery Transexuals go through. Yeah, I really need proof to claim that I don't like something.

I call bigotted, unbacked, illogical or overly emotionally weighted opinions bullshit.

How is it bigotted when I'm hating something that the person does to themself.
If I hated them for having this problem in thier minds, then yes I would be a bigot.

That's not an excuse for being an idiot, and calling people freaks without anything to back up your shitfaced little "Opinions". End of.

I need something to back up my opinion that when they go through surgery and supplements that thier freaks when this is clearly based of my own opinion on it.

Just like my opinion that homosexuals have a legal right to get married, do I need proof for that.

It is a physical choice to go through with plastic surgery, and to injest supplements.

You didn't listen to a fucking word I said.

Have you looked at what nature based religions believe.

Considering I'm only pagan, yes, I rather think I would have.

That I don't like the surgery Transexuals go through. Yeah, I really need proof to claim that I don't like something.

No, your claim is that they shouldn't go through it. Regardless of whether it's just your opinion or not, you need to offer at least some solid reasoning behind that. Being a transsexual is severely emotionally crippling and I could easily accuse you of being a sadist for your views, and I'd be right, too.

How is it bigotted when I'm hating something that the person does to themself.

If I hated them for having this problem in thier minds, then yes I would be a bigot.

No, instead you hate them for not living a life out of misery and tortue.

You're a disgusting little shit. *You* are like the people that try to "cure" homosexuals. You force people to live as something they're miserable in.

I need something to back up my opinion that when they go through surgery and supplements that thier freaks when this is clearly based of my own opinion on it.

Yes you fucking do. You can't just post in a thread about, say, nuclear physics, and claim positrons don't exist, and say you don't have to back it up, because it's your opinion. Despite the fact that most people in that thread will have conflicting opinions anyway; the difference is that they're grounded in fact and reality, to an extent.
Unbacked opinions aren't opinions, but claims to an opinion. You have to at least have SOME valid backing for it, even if your opinion isn't correct. This is partly why I don't consider homophobia a true "opinion", but a vice.

Just like my opinion that homosexuals have a legal right to get married, do I need proof for that.

Regardless of whether I agree with you or not, yes, you do actually. You can't just say "gays should get married" without providing a reason why, either. I'd also question how deeply you believe that, and wonder if it's to appear more tolerant than understanding the logical implications behind it and truly wishing people to have their rights. This is an online discussion forum, for arguing and debating, not your private headspace.

Penal, I'm making my opinion clear and ending because you are blinded by your hate against someone else's opinion.

I'm completely fine with people that have a transgendered condition.
I don't like it when people go through an operation to make themself more into thier percieved person.

Does that mean it should be illegal, No.

Does that mean I can carry my own opinion on this and that they are mutilating thier bodies yes.

Thats it. They can still continue to do It, I just don't agree with it allright.

I don't want a fucning argument, I've stated my opinion and it's done.

Now If you want to reply to this without insults and in a more calm tone, then I will reply.

Penal, I'm making my opinion clear and ending because you are blinded by your hate against someone else's opinion.

I'm sorry for hating unbacked opinions that call my friends freaks, and that you firmly believe they should go through a torturous life instead of being happy.

I'm completely fine with people that have a transgendered condition.

I don't like it when people go through an operation to make themself more into thier percieved person.

And that makes you a complete and utter sadist. You have a problem with people that do anything at all about being miserable, and you seem to be very proud in this viewpoint. That's like saying you don't have a problem with someone having a life threatening disease, just with them doing something about it. It's insane, and in this care, extremely disgusting.

Does that mean I can carry my own opinion on this and that they are mutilating thier bodies yes.

Not in an argument until you back it. Nobody can change what you think, but they can call it stupid and invalid if you spew out unbacked rubbish on a forum.

Thats it. They can still continue to do It, I just don't agree with it allright.

Well obviously they can still continue to do it since you can hardly force them otherwise.

I don't want a fucning argument, I've stated my opinion and it's done.

Then why the hell are you posting in a thread about it, in a forum that's all about arguing! You can't just call a bunch of people freaks, say you believe they should live a life of torture instead of happines for no good reason, and throw a hissy fit when someone has a problem with it.

The main problem with this kind of argument is that most people refuse to change their views even when they're demonstrated to be completely insensitive and logically unsound.

Penal: Maybe you didn't see what I said, maybe you ignored it, maybe you just don't care, but just in case:

Stop being a hypocrite. You insult people and tell them they're wrong for not agreeing with you, and you jump on them if they insult you. You can NEVER winanargument like that.

At 4/23/06 11:47 AM, YankeeFli wrote: I want them to stop. Yes.
Shoud they stop. Not up to me, my opinion doesn't affect the rest of the country.

But why do you want us to stop? Why do you want us to be in denial of who we are? And yes, not wanting to change our bodies IS denying.

But since this argument is based of of my opinion and my own thoughts I indeed think god wanted them like that.
Maybe it's a test of sorts, a trial by fire type of deal.

God is an asshole. And not just for this; Book of Job, killing firstborn, flooding Earth, saving someone who pimps his two daughters to the men of town.....

Did I ever say I want it illegal no.
Can I disagree with something but still tolerate it, Yes.

Then what do you want done about it

If it's a good surgery. I a person can't tell, then yes they get what they want.

Which is exactly what we want.

Stop being a hypocrite. You insult people and tell them they're wrong for not agreeing with you, and you jump on them if they insult you. You can NEVER winanargument like that.

Stop trying to be too middle of the road. I don't tell anyone they're wrong for not agreeing with me. I provide solid reasons as to how they're wrong, and it's usually down to consitency or conflicting with logic. You can't win an argument by reducing all arguments to "disagreements" wither. There is such a thing as a REAL issue, another reason I despise Relativism in favour of a logic based system.

At 4/23/06 12:33 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote: Stop trying to be too middle of the road.

I'm not. I'll stand up for what I believe in, but I won't call someone a biggot or hate-monger for thinking gays shouldn't marry.

I don't tell anyone they're wrong for not agreeing with me.

Please don't make me quote from various places throughout the thread.....

I provide solid reasons as to how they're wrong, and it's usually down to consitency or conflicting with logic.

All of your arguments are feuled by opinion. As some politician said; 'You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts'

You can't win an argument by reducing all arguments to "disagreements" wither.

Yes, you can. What else is an argument? Now if its something like the 'man never landed on the moon' people from a couple months ago, then its simply arguing facts. But there are no 'facts' on sexuality. At least, not yet.

There is such a thing as a REAL issue, another reason I despise Relativism in favour of a logic based system.

But everyone has their own set of beliefs, and what you call 'logic' is utter bull to someone else. There are no 'realists' or people who base all opinions on logic. YOu are CLEARLY a very emotionally-driven person.

I'm not. I'll stand up for what I believe in, but I won't call someone a biggot or hate-monger for thinking gays shouldn't marry.

Why not, if it's evident from their reasoning(or lack thereof) that they are?

Whatever happened to *true* Moral outrage?

Please don't make me quote from various places throughout the thread.....

No, I will. You throw shit at me, you have to say where you got it from.

All of your arguments are feuled by opinion. As some politician said; 'You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts'

No, they're only partially fueled by opinion. Most of them are founded in logical concepts or education on a particular subject.

Yes, you can. What else is an argument? Now if its something like the 'man never landed on the moon' people from a couple months ago, then its simply arguing facts. But there are no 'facts' on sexuality. At least, not yet.

There are no "facts" on sexuality? Yes there are. There are facts for EVERYTHING. You can't just leave things like that "open to interpretation".

But everyone has their own set of beliefs, and what you call 'logic' is utter bull to someone else. There are no 'realists' or people who base all opinions on logic. YOu are CLEARLY a very emotionally-driven person.

I'm very emotioanlly driven, but I don't create arguments based around emotions, or at least, not my own emotions, since without no emotions this argument wouldn't even be happening.

I do base my opinions more in logic than Fli does, and that's a fact. He has provided no reasoning and has called people freaks and said they should live a life of misery, just because. I'm sorry that doesn't outrage you in the least.

At 4/23/06 12:23 PM, altanese_mistress wrote:

God is an asshole. And not just for this; Book of Job, killing firstborn, flooding Earth, saving someone who pimps his two daughters to the men of town.....

Much as I loathe the idea of digressing from the topic, I just have to inquire one thing, and then I'll drop it.

How can God be an asshole and, at the same time, as you've said in previous threads, not exist?