Transsexuality.

[Penal-Disturbance]

I think people who have it a lot harder than homosexuals and really do have some of their most basic rights stripped from them due to birth defect, are transsexuals.

Transsexuality is a condition where the brain's gender and body's sex differs. In order to "rectify" the body through hormone replacement therapy, and any surgery that may be required, potential sufferers of gender dysphoria are put through a long rigmarole of tests. It's a long and enduring process.

Gender Dysphoria is the depression that comes as a result of mismatching brain and body, and is especially brought on by hormones. It occurs in different degrees. It is dangerous and leads to an overwhelming increase in chance of suicide if left untreated with both psychiatric and hormonal help.

Transsexuals are absolutely lambasted in the media. You see some of the most disgusting stereotypes and the most filthy, evil prejudice. Most people seem to base their opinions off Jerry Springer or that ridiuclous episode of South Park. The popular image of a transsexual is a crazy man who believes himself to be a woman in a man's body(but the audience of course "Know" he isn't) who forks out a lot of money and then "He" is a woman, or an overexagerrated homosexual who does much the same.

Transsexuality is a difficult issue compared to homosexuality, as homosexuality does not require any external modification, it is not a defect. Transsexuality is *at least* as hardcoded as homosexuality is, and it is morally abhorrant to change someone's very core self before you make a few external changes, regardless.

Homosexuality and transsexuality are not directly linked, however, there is a far greater rate of homosexuality with transsexuals than with the general populace(i.e. lesbian/bisexual transgenders), this is likely due to hormones, or perhaps transsexuality being a genetic extension of homosexuality, due to the same kind of recurring genomes that define things such as the length of a snout on a dog.

Transsexuals continue to be second rate citizens in most countries. They are affected more heavily by homosexuality than homophobia itself.

While transsexuality is 100s of times rarer than homosexuality, there is still some good study. All tests conducted have found that it is extremely likely that transsexuals do indeed possess much of the same brain structure/hard wiring as the gender they believe themselves to be.

One such test is here - http://jcem.endojour..nt/full/85/5/2034/F2

Transphobia is the hatred, fear of, or act of discrimination against transsexuals, though it is really just an extension of homophobia, which in turn is founded in sexism, they are not "Opinions" but enforcement of gender role. Because of society's often strict conservative values, even some homosexuals are misinformed and bear ill will towards transgendered people.

In the past, in some countries, Transsexuals were declared completely insane, and force fed testosterone, the chemical responsible for their misery in the first place. I can't imagine a more pure form of torture, but there are still people today who would consider it appropriate treatment, and sleep at night.

I don't think there are many other minorities you can be in the modern world and be shat on so much. I feel for my transgendered friends and they deserve better.

[Penal-Disturbance]

Also, like homosexuality, transsexuality occurs in nature. It is not a human phenomenon, it is just that we are the only ones that evolved a means to fix it, but unfortunately we also involved many reasons to make that fix even more urgent, and then continue to harass them even when they are "fixed".

[peedee]

I thought you were a dude.

[Penal-Disturbance]

At 4/20/06 11:06 PM, peedee wrote: I thought you were a dude.

What? No, I'm a girl with a name that makes me laugh whenever anyone argues with me and quotes me. I'm also posting about transsexuality, which is kind of ironic considering your gender mix-up.

[peedee]

At 4/20/06 11:07 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

At 4/20/06 11:06 PM, peedee wrote: I thought you were a dude.

What? No, I'm a girl with a name that makes me laugh whenever anyone argues with me and quotes me. I'm also posting about transsexuality, which is kind of ironic considering your gender mix-up.

Hahahaha. Yeah. It's late... Hahha.

As for the topic, in high school we went to a place in Toronto for religion. It was a shelter for homeless people with gender issues and what not. It was really interesting to hear the struggles some of these people went through, but terribly sad.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 4/20/06 11:02 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote: I think people who have it a lot harder than homosexuals

People who have it WHAT a lot harder then homosexuals? Dislike it? Like it?

[Penal-Disturbance]

At 4/20/06 11:19 PM, LettuceClock wrote:

At 4/20/06 11:02 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote: I think people who have it a lot harder than homosexuals

People who have it WHAT a lot harder then homosexuals? Dislike it? Like it?

Um, who have "It". You know, "Things", "Life".

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 4/20/06 11:20 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

Um, who have "It". You know, "Things", "Life".

No, I know what your reffering to. I mean, people who have it WHAT a lot harder? What do they do a lot harder then people who don't have it?

[Penal-Disturbance]

I don't understand where you're coming from at all. Try re-reading the first sentence until you get it.

[No-one-inparticular]

I imagine the most difficuit thing for transexuals, is when they go through puberty and start to develope love feelings for other people.

A woman with a penis would never be able to attract a man, for the most part, or, if she did, he would find out, and be disgusted.

There was an episode of Boston Public, where a teacher cathches a boy trying to rape a girl, and can't understand why the girl is so hysterical that it might go to trial, until she is told by the girl that she has perfect male genitalia.

I just happened to think of that as I typed.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 4/20/06 11:39 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote: I don't understand where you're coming from at all. Try re-reading the first sentence until you get it.

I did, it makes no fucking sense. The only thing I can imagine you meant was "People that have it have it a lot harder then gay's".

The way you stated it makes no sense.

[poxpower]

At 4/20/06 11:02 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

Transsexuality is a condition where the brain's gender and body's sex differs.

That sounds completely stupid.
Reminds me of those old 50's videos about homosexuality being a contagious disease. How the fuck can your brain be female and your body male, and it bothers you???
I don't even know how you can find out. What's the mental difference between men and women? If you factor-in the mood-swings from testosterone that makes guys more aggressive anyways, I'd say that's the one mental difference.
And in any case, I don't see how there could be SUCH a disparity that you would NEED to fork money over to doctors so they "treat" you.

Sounds like trying to "treat" homos all over again.

overwhelming increase in chance of suicide

Wtf that's it? It makes people emos? Maybe its got a lot more to do with the people around them treating them bad for being different than it had to do with actualy being "sick" or "unbalanced".

Transsexuals are absolutely lambasted in the media.

Dude, those people do it for cosmetics only. And men become women a lot more then women become men, because MEN ARE PERVERTS.
No shit. Now is there some awesome research that shoes that men are "more likely to catch gayism" too?

Transsexuals continue to be second rate citizens in most countries.

If you can pick them out of a crowd, then they need to change their dress code. Bearded women are always suspicious, especialy when they are named Mike and specialise in piano moving.

While transsexuality is 100s of times rarer than homosexuality, there is still some good study.

I bet you my left testicle that as cosmetic surgery becomes cheaper and easier, the rate of "transexuality" will mysteriously skyrocket.

One such test is here - http://jcem.endojour..nt/full/85/5/2034/F2

whazzat? How do I open lol?

Transphobia

weeeeeeeeeeeeeee let's make news words that are useless!!

I don't think there are many other minorities you can be in the modern world and be shat on so much. I feel for my transgendered friends and they deserve better.

I don't even know or know someone who knows someone who knows a "transexual".

Is this topic a joke?

[Bloodyham]

At 4/20/06 11:34 PM, LettuceClock wrote: No, I know what your reffering to. I mean, people who have it WHAT a lot harder? What do they do a lot harder then people who don't have it?

Trying to fit in?

I think she means they have a harder time adjusting to what is normal, because some feel they arent and never will be. As for the topic in general, I am divided. On one side, I think that it's wrong to force a person to be something that they arent just because a group of people arent comfortable with it. And don't any of you over analyze that and ask me if the same rules apply to a murder or something, cause you know they dont. Anyways, on the other side, I believe getting surgery to make you happier with yourself is wrong. Even though turning your body from a man to a woman ( or vice versa ) will help make you more comfortable with yourself, you should try to find a middle ground that doesn't involve mutilating your own body and putting your life in danger. Basically, I think you shouldn't get surgery to fix something unless you medically need it. Like being born with it like someone above me stated.

[Penal-Disturbance]

At 4/21/06 12:03 AM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 4/20/06 11:02 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

Transsexuality is a condition where the brain's gender and body's sex differs.

That sounds completely stupid.
Reminds me of those old 50's videos about homosexuality being a contagious disease. How the fuck can your brain be female and your body male, and it bothers you???
I don't even know how you can find out. What's the mental difference between men and women? If you factor-in the mood-swings from testosterone that makes guys more aggressive anyways, I'd say that's the one mental difference.
And in any case, I don't see how there could be SUCH a disparity that you would NEED to fork money over to doctors so they "treat" you.

Sounds like trying to "treat" homos all over again.

overwhelming increase in chance of suicide

Wtf that's it? It makes people emos? Maybe its got a lot more to do with the people around them treating them bad for being different than it had to do with actualy being "sick" or "unbalanced".

Transsexuals are absolutely lambasted in the media.

Dude, those people do it for cosmetics only. And men become women a lot more then women become men, because MEN ARE PERVERTS.
No shit. Now is there some awesome research that shoes that men are "more likely to catch gayism" too?

Transsexuals continue to be second rate citizens in most countries.

If you can pick them out of a crowd, then they need to change their dress code. Bearded women are always suspicious, especialy when they are named Mike and specialise in piano moving.

While transsexuality is 100s of times rarer than homosexuality, there is still some good study.

I bet you my left testicle that as cosmetic surgery becomes cheaper and easier, the rate of "transexuality" will mysteriously skyrocket.

One such test is here - http://jcem.endojour..nt/full/85/5/2034/F2

whazzat? How do I open lol?

Transphobia

weeeeeeeeeeeeeee let's make news words that are useless!!

I don't think there are many other minorities you can be in the modern world and be shat on so much. I feel for my transgendered friends and they deserve better.

I don't even know or know someone who knows someone who knows a "transexual".

Is this topic a joke?

Jesus, you're a complete fucking idiot. OBVIOUSLY all these decades of research are nothing, as it's all research funded by the Liberal Gay Agenda, or some cosmetic magazine, or PETA, or something equally ridiculous, and obviously your bigotted little turd of a mind knows better. It's always fun to unmask conspiracies of supposed shallowness, especially at the expense of some of the most miserable people you'll find.

Transsexual women are not "Perverted". There is absolutely no basis for this whatsoever. I have no idea whether transsexual females are more common than males, but honestly, TS Males don't NEED to get an operation most of the time since women are accepted in "tomboy"-ish personas much easier than men are accepted in feminine personas.
The only psychologist in modern times who suggested it was completely shunned by his peers, and refused to back up his claims with any real evidence.

I cannot understand people who just shit in the face of fact to defend their own ignorant opinions. You have to accept that sometimes, you are wrong. You know NOTHING about this. I deal with these people, and have read an awful amount on these. I've been through all the bumps with friends I've met who are like this, and I know what it is. You are not. You're mouthing off because you think it makes you look like a down to earth badass for rejecting the shallow perverted men.

Iff transsexuals are just perverts, then why is the attempted suicide rate for pre-transition transsexuals 20%?(http://www.metrokc.g..glbt/transgende
r.htm)

Use your fucking brain. It's not cool to be ignorant, and it's not cool to diss on some minority just because you think it makes your own ass look less shallow and more grounded. Nothing is less shallow and more grounded than cold hard science, which of course you ignored since you're too retarded to click on links.

[Penal-Disturbance]

Also, what the fuck is it with you and curing transsexuality and curing homosexuality and all that crap? It's not the same as force curing homosexuals, because transsexuals WANT to have female hormones, and whatever else. Not only that, it's been proven to make them happier in the long run. "Curing" them would be something like, oh, I don't know, suggesting that they're all perverted men.

[No-one-inparticular]

At 4/21/06 12:03 AM, -poxpower- wrote:
I don't even know or know someone who knows someone who knows a "transexual".

Is this topic a joke?

best I could find in ten minutes, but, here you go

[jmaster306]

At 4/21/06 12:03 AM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 4/20/06 11:02 PM, Penal_Disturbance wrote: I don't think there are many other minorities you can be in the modern world and be shat on so much. I feel for my transgendered friends and they deserve better.

I don't even know or know someone who knows someone who knows a "transexual".

Is this topic a joke?

I actually do know a couple although I would hardly call them worse off than homosexuals. I'm not saying that they have it easy, however the responses I have seen are significant different from the reaction to homosexuality.

When most people complain about homosexuality it is usually a fear stemmed from the notion that a homosexual will try to do something to them. It is a reactionary defense against a percieved "attack."

With transexuals the problems come with classification. We have all been raised with this notion of male and female and when there is something that doesn't match either one, they are confused. Is it still a he or should we call it a she or would the term "it" be best? Especially when you consider that some transexuals are greatly offended when you call them by the wrong designation, it becomes a question of how to deal with the individual.

[Penal-Disturbance]

I don't think it is like that. I think it is, again, about Gender roles. Men are meant to be men. It goes against so much of how they see the world. They simply don't want to learn and would rather hold on to their outdated beliefs and use them against people.

[poxpower]

I love this forum hahahaha

At 4/21/06 12:13 AM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

Jesus, you're a complete fucking idiot. OBVIOUSLY all these decades of research are nothing, as it's all research funded by the Liberal Gay Agenda

yeah research...
directly from your link below: "While research is scant..."
DUUUUUR

STEALTH JEWS.
But seriously where does you link go?

Transsexual women are not "Perverted".

No, men are perverts.
Hence, more of them want to be chicks then chicks want to be guys.
I don't even think there needs to be reasearch on this. We know this like we know that squirrels and car wheels are not equaly matched on the road.

I cannot understand people who just shit in the face of fact to defend their own ignorant opinions.

This is always a sentence that comes back to haunt its writer at some point. haha. Write it on a piece of paper and read it to yourself after everything you write in here, just for fun.

You have to accept that sometimes, you are wrong. You know NOTHING about this.

nope 8-)
But your link sucked. Or more accurately, it looked like a powerpoint or whatever crap. Who the hell links to powerpoint? I don't even know how that works.

I deal with these people, and have read an awful amount on these.

What a compelling argument. You know more! Wow. I have to remember to use that line next time.
HEY CHUMP, YOU KNOW NOTHING, FOR I KNOW ALL!

Iff transsexuals are just perverts, then why is the attempted suicide rate for pre-transition transsexuals 20%?(http://www.metrokc.g..glbt/transgende
r.htm)

20%? Wtf that sounds ridiculous. That's one in five, those numbers are close to the frickin plague in medieval europe. They smell of bullshit to me.

It's not cool to be ignorant, and it's not cool to diss on some minority just because you think it makes your own ass look less shallow and more grounded.

You're talking about some obscure condition that makes people emo and that basicaly is desired by a large number of strange guys who like to change their penises into vaginas.

What's the numbers on these so-called "unbalanced" people? What's the proportion of guys who had a sex-change and who were also diagnosed with this?
My guess: not that many.

And when the hell was this discovery anyways?
It just sounds sooooooo much like making up a disease to me, its scary. Who the fucks discriminates against these people? Except for the obvious weirdness of going to work with Charles before the holidays and then coming back to find Charlette sitting at the desk across yours.
That's disturbing as fuck. And funny.

Yes yes I am so evil.

[poxpower]

At 4/21/06 12:19 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote:

best I could find in ten minutes, but, here you go

angelfire...
uh-oh

Its says hermaphrodite. That being PHYSICALY both. This topic is about people of a certain sex trapped in another's body.

Sort of like those nerds on the internet who think they have Dragon and Wolf spirits inside them.

At 4/21/06 12:28 AM, jmaster306 wrote:

I actually do know a couple although I would hardly call them worse off than homosexuals.

Where do you meet these people?
In San Fran bars?
Wtf I've never even HEARD of anyone having a sex-change outside of a porno or a talk-show.
My guess is that this is cultural more than an actual disease, even if I don't know shit haha. Certain cultures and milieus seem to mysteriously bring about more of these people.

I bet the concentration of this "condition" is much higher in big city centers than it is in the Russian Tundra.

If I'm wrong, then show me the numers, and if you don't have the numbers, then don't tell me its super well researched.

With transexuals the problems come with classification.

More like.
A 6 feet tall chick with huge muscles.
Its just freaky. Some people don't like women bodybuilders. I wonder why.

If you're a two-penny philosopher, that's your cue to tell me I want to feel like a strong male and dominate my woman with my raw sexual overflow of manly pride.

[altanese-mistress]

Its nice to see someone arguing for us transsexuals.

And just a side-note; in many Native American cultures, 'Two-Spirits' are often seen as powerful shamen and warriors. So, some people hold us in higher regard than 'normal' people.

[Penal-Disturbance]

Pile of unbacked shit. Slander and insults.

I've never understood people who claim to be open minded towards homosexuals, and then their open mind just seems to close for someone else.

[Penal-Disturbance]

If I'm wrong, then show me the numers, and if you don't have the numbers, then don't tell me its super well researched.

You didn't even research the first link which essentially proves the case of transsexuality. Why should I bother with finding you another one?

[No-one-inparticular]

At 4/21/06 12:31 AM, -poxpower- wrote:
At 4/21/06 12:13 AM, Penal_Disturbance wrote

Transsexual women are not "Perverted".

No, men are perverts.
Hence, more of them want to be chicks then chicks want to be guys.

I don't know what kind of men you're talking to, pox, but I've never heard a man say, "I wish I had my own pussy to play with!" That sounds made-up to me.

20%? Wtf that sounds ridiculous. That's one in five, those numbers are close to the frickin plague in medieval europe. They smell of bullshit to me.

You're talking about some obscure condition that makes people emo and that basicaly is desired by a large number of strange guys who like to change their penises into vaginas.

No offense, pox, but I'm not going anywhere near Quebec.
But I'm sure America has it's oddballs, too.

And when the hell was this discovery anyways?
It just sounds sooooooo much like making up a disease to me, its scary. Who the fucks discriminates against these people? Except for the obvious weirdness of going to work with Charles before the holidays and then coming back to find Charlette sitting at the desk across yours.
That's disturbing as fuck. And funny.

It's funny, alright, but you gotta admit, with all the weird shit on Ripley's Believe it or Not! it certainly seems at least remotely possible.

[poxpower]

At 4/21/06 12:52 AM, Penal_Disturbance wrote: Pile of unbacked shit. Slander and insults.

I've never understood people who claim to be open minded towards homosexuals, and then their open mind just seems to close for someone else.

this has nothing to do with me being open-minded with whatever people or about their choices, I don't give a shit.
It just doesn't sound like a real disease. Like when people tell me they're on a depression, and then some random asshole comes in and tells me that YES, depression is REALLY REAL and medicaly evil!
But then you dig an inch deep and you find out that there's some people who actualy HAVE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEM but those people are not your "depressed" emo-goth friends.

I think this is the same deal. There might be one person who actualy has this and who's life it affects ( thought I don't really know how it could...) for ever 20 horny people with too much money and time.
That's our society.

At 4/21/06 12:53 AM, Penal_Disturbance wrote:

You didn't even research the first link which essentially proves the case of transsexuality. Why should I bother with finding you another one?

I'm not really denying it, I'm saying that:

1. I don't know how it can show unless you let it
2. I don't know how it can be so bad as to drive people to suicide
3. lots of people have nothing wrong with them and have sex-change operations, because they are horny and bored with their parts.

that's that.

At 4/21/06 12:57 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote:

I don't know what kind of men you're talking to, pox, but I've never heard a man say, "I wish I had my own pussy to play with!" That sounds made-up to me.

Right, how long have YOU been on the internet?
Welcome to the ugly underbelly of society, where you'll find out how fucked up and stupid people can actualy be.

Give me 10 minutes and I can find you 10 sites about poor repressed transexuals WHO BARE IT ALL!!

No offense, pox, but I'm not going anywhere near Quebec.
But I'm sure America has it's oddballs, too.

...
right....

It's funny, alright, but you gotta admit, with all the weird shit on Ripley's Believe it or Not! it certainly seems at least remotely possible.

I told you, I don't think its not possible that there is somehow a way to identify a male brain and a female brain and discover their mismatch a body.
It just seems fucking unlikely to me that this alone would drive TWENTY PERCENT of people to suicide.

Wtf?
Why? That's crazy bullshit. Sounds like inflated numbers used to put attention on a cause that needs none.
What's so wrong with these people? Is this what its about? Like that episode of South Park where they had a whole parade for the nurse with a foetus in the face, pretending it didn't bother them and making a GIANT deal out of it?
What the hell are the numers here?
The author of the thread makes it sound like this is a SERIOUS problem that needs addressing and that society is evil and rejects men in dresses.

Not women in men clothes though, that's HOT.

[jmaster306]

At 4/21/06 12:38 AM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 4/21/06 12:28 AM, jmaster306 wrote:

I actually do know a couple although I would hardly call them worse off than homosexuals.

Where do you meet these people?
In San Fran bars?
Wtf I've never even HEARD of anyone having a sex-change outside of a porno or a talk-show.
My guess is that this is cultural more than an actual disease, even if I don't know shit haha. Certain cultures and milieus seem to mysteriously bring about more of these people.

I bet the concentration of this "condition" is much higher in big city centers than it is in the Russian Tundra.

Not so much a gay bar in San Fran as it is a rural portion of southeastern Wisconsin. The only explination I can give is that we are technically a blue state.

With transexuals the problems come with classification.

More like.
A 6 feet tall chick with huge muscles.
Its just freaky. Some people don't like women bodybuilders. I wonder why.

Meh, both of the guys that I know weren't exactly the manliest men to begin with so they make relativly convincing women. I personally find it funny that one of the guys has actually become very catty during his transformation, how's that for gender roles?

If you're a two-penny philosopher, that's your cue to tell me I want to feel like a strong male and dominate my woman with my raw sexual overflow of manly pride.

Whatever pox, different people have different prefferences. Although someone must like them big and muscular women because they keep springing up out of nowhere.

[No-one-inparticular]

At 4/21/06 12:52 AM, altanese_mistress wrote: Its nice to see someone arguing for us transsexuals.

And just a side-note; in many Native American cultures, 'Two-Spirits' are often seen as powerful shamen and warriors. So, some people hold us in higher regard than 'normal' people.

So a woman's spirit enters a man's body, or, how's that work?

[No-one-inparticular]

At 4/21/06 01:15 AM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 4/21/06 12:57 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote:

Give me 10 minutes and I can find you 10 sites about poor repressed transexuals WHO BARE IT ALL!!

ok, pox, I'm game. You have my email, you have my AIM. Or just give me some links!

[poxpower]

At 4/21/06 01:18 AM, jmaster306 wrote:

Meh, both of the guys that I know weren't exactly the manliest men to begin with so they make relativly convincing women.

Haha.
Oh no, there you are once again repressing them.
THEY JUST WANT TO BE LOVED NO MATTER WHAT.

Its like that Tucker Max story where a gay guy gives Tucker doubts as to if he slept or not with a transexual. Haha. Funny.
Tuckey was scared.

[altanese-mistress]

At 4/21/06 01:23 AM, Steel_Reserve wrote: So a woman's spirit enters a man's body, or, how's that work?

It works with either physical gender. The idea is that they are born with the spirit of both genders, and therefore have hieghtened powers and are therefore held in high regard. 'Women' Two-Spirits are usually warriors, hunters, cheiftans, etc. and 'Men' Two-Spirits being weavers, child-raisers, etc.

Heres what Wikipedia has to say.