FreeOnlineGames.com

[PsychoGoldfish]

Now I'm sure a lot of you game designers get the occasional email about doing custom games for people on the side.

I've been nurned on deals like that in the past and have since learned my worth, and learned to only work with established sited that actually have some capitol to spend.

FreeOnlineGames.com is a very high traffic flash game site with a massive library of games (mostly hosted without permission).

One such game is Sick Trix BMX (wich they have labeled as BMX Stunts), a game programmed by entropicOrder with artwork my me.

They shot me an e-mail about making a new version of the game. Knowing that they have a large traffic base and lots of capitol, I figured I could help them out and maybe make some money off one of my games on their site, instead of them just "obtaining" it for free.

Here's the e-mail convertsation... it's amusing to say the least.

---------

Hi Josh,

Bali Cooper here from FreeOnlineGames.com, I was wondering if you'd be
interested in making me a game very similar to BMX stunts? Basically using
the same engine, but making it with different graphics? I can offer you
good money for your work.

Either way please it would be nice to hear back from you.

Regards
Bali Cooper

---------

Bali,

Thanks for the interest in BMX, however I do not have access to the engine for that game, I only provided artwork for Steve Castro on that project.
I believe the rights to that engine belong to Sports Illustrated, but if you were interested in an all new BMX project I am more than capable of producing such a game.

I'm pretty booked for the next 3-4 weeks but could start a game on the side and put some more priority toward it later next month.

Let me know what you have in mind and I can shoot you a quote.

--Josh Tuttle
Psycho Goldfish Creative Media

-----------

Hey Josh,

Thanks for the quick reply! I was after a game similar to the bmx game,
with different settings.... but with more and better tricks! Something
that when people will play, they say wow! That game was made in 2003 and
now its 2006 and we have flash 8, I'm sure you can do something better for
me and you said that you are more than capable of making a game like this
:)

Few questions: How much will you charge? It seems like the going rate for
getting such a game made is $600, but obviously since you making the game
I will let you decide the cost! Also before we start off could you give me
a slight insight on what the game would be like! And how long will it
take..

And most importantly would you be okay working under these rules? Please
remember these rules apply to all the developers that work for
FreeOnlineGames.com and not just you,

Any games you make for me will be property of FreeOnlineGames.com! The
engine and the graphics! You will not be allowed to resell/rebrand the
game for anybody else... Also the game will contain 0 credits! NO links or
any other references to the author!

If we do come to an agreement, which I’m sure we will…. I can assure you
that I can provide you with regular project's... one after the other. Or
what ever amount you can work on at one time

Regards
Bali Cooper

---------

Bali,

In order to make a game and give up all intellectual rights, $600 is extremely insufficient. I would exect no less than $10,000 for a hiqh quality bmx game, wich would cover my time on the project, and compensate the loss of intellectual rights. You might be able to fins a high school student with a year or 2 of experience willing to make a game and give it up for under $1000 with no credit whatsoever, but I've been in the industry long enough to know the worth of these games, and what the kickback on advertising revenu looks like for a high traffic site such as yours.

If you are still interested in the project let me know, otherwise I wish you luck finding someone who can do what ou need.

Thanks or your time,
Josh Tuttle

------------

Hey,

Nice comment's... I think i will stick with the high school kid's! thanks
for your time Josh :)

Regards
Bali Cooper

---------------------

So not only do they steal games, they rape inexperienced game developers for peanuts.

I hope you guys know your worth, I'd hate to see anyone get taken advantage of by a site like this. Even Ebaumsworld is a lot more fair when they actually pay for stuff, and that says volumes.

[GustTheASGuy]

Had the feeling about them already.

[liaaaam]

The worst part about that was that he expected to pay $600 for a game which the author cannot keep the rights to, and the author cannot even have his name associated with the game. What a fucking tard.

[Mistasmijen]

god forbid you get paid under 1 grand for about a months work.

[Mogly]

That was funny when they were saying about "no credits" in the game :D.

Were you being serious with $10,000?

[authorblues]

At 4/19/06 12:46 PM, mistasmijen wrote: god forbid you get paid under 1 grand for about a months work.

thanks for proving that youre an idiot.

firstly, a professional game takes far more than one months labour. youre looking at several months of hard work to make a GOOD, STABLE game. secondly, the price wasnt because of the work. its because he was not only giving the rights for use, but he was giving up ALL INTELLECTUAL CLAIM. by selling his game to this site, he had to disavow any association with the game. i wouldnt have accepted anything less than $2500 for several months of work and loss of intellectual rights.

[SESSNET]

What a fuscking dick licker.....I think he does liek high school kids or maybe he is one - and really likes elementary school kids....I swear one day I'm going to make all these asshole sites that rape and steal games pay and they better mark my words right here and now cause its the last time theyll see it coming before it hits them in the face

[SESSNET]

wouldnt have accepted anything less than $2500 for several months of work and loss of intellectual rights

Dude, if he's an idiot for asking $1000 for a month of work - what does that make you - asking only $2500 for 7 months?

[Mogly]

At 4/19/06 01:04 PM, SESSNET wrote:

wouldnt have accepted anything less than $2500 for several months of work and loss of intellectual rights

Dude, if he's an idiot for asking $1000 for a month of work - what does that make you - asking only $2500 for 7 months?

Several , you silly sossage you.

[azrag]

figures they would do something like that. If I were to create a flash site I would always ask permission before ever taking others work. What a bunch of fags

[Luis]

I guess atleast they were honest about what you were getting yourself into. Theres other companies that have fine print that they hope you never read and often time kids/you all never do. They dont litterally tell you up front that you are losing your rights.

The Goldfish was pretty spot on with the $10,000 figure. That is not unrealistic at all, fla source files usually go for that much money. I cant imagine though that anyone would be willing to be a ghostwriter for any amount of money. Companies like that obviously dont respect you the creative guy/gal as a professional and human being, to them you are merely a corporate tool. Dont give into em! You do a disservice to the whole profession!

[SESSNET]

At 4/19/06 01:08 PM, -Mogly- wrote:

At 4/19/06 01:04 PM, SESSNET wrote:

wouldnt have accepted anything less than $2500 for several months of work and loss of intellectual rights

Dude, if he's an idiot for asking $1000 for a month of work - what does that make you - asking only $2500 for 7 months?

Several , you silly sossage you.

Last time i check several meant 6, or 7 - and "few" means 3,4,5 - so maybe he's the silly sossage and meant to say few!!!!
..
..
and I advise you to take back or explain that remark about me being a silly sossage...as I have only a clue as to what you really meant by that - it can be taken the wrong way.

[MindChamber]

about the only good side to this is that having blockers or killswitches in your swf is really working.

Since they probably would rather steal your shit from the start anyways.

[SESSNET]

Don't believe anything you read on dictionary .com or any website that is not within the NG network - it's all just a conspiracy if you haven't noticced yet.

[PsychoGoldfish]

The way I look at it is time, vs opportunity, vs potential.

for a BMX game featuring animated tricks, multiple characters, tracks, fun physics that's at least a month of work for me. Plus a game that good could be a big draw traffic-wise. If I launched it here on NG I could make $600 in extra ad revenue in like 2-3 days. Not to mention I can always add new tracks, make sequals, whatever I want. So between the potential of the game and the timne spent, you're damn right it's worth at least $10k to me.

[Afro-Ninja]

$600, ha, what a fuck face. And with NO branding. Where do I sign up

[PsychoGoldfish]

sign my penis fro, DEAL OF A LIFETIME!

[liaaaam]

At 4/19/06 01:42 PM, Psycho_Goldfish wrote: sign my penis fro, DEAL OF A LIFETIME!

He'd have to use a very fine tip pen =\

[SESSNET]

I would like to offer my services - I'll make a REALLY COOL BMX game like that, and all lose all the credit for only $600 - but I would have to fart in your bosses left ear - are there any takers?

Offer #1: $600 - have to sign PG's penis
Offer #2: $600 - rape a 12yr old
Offer #3: $600 - your boss gets a taco/bean smelling fart in his ear

Anyone else who programs games want to offer their services?

[LadyGrace]

HI! I'd like to give you no money and take all your talent and pass it off as our sites! If you do this, I'd like to shaft you often in the future, it'll be the deal of a lifetime!

[ChocloMan]

At 4/19/06 12:35 PM, Psycho_Goldfish wrote:

Any games you make for me will be property of FreeOnlineGames.com! The
engine and the graphics! You will not be allowed to resell/rebrand the
game for anybody else... Also the game will contain 0 credits! NO links or
any other references to the author!

"Hey, how about I give you some head for free?"

[shazwoogle]

lol what bitches!