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LedZabbath
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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-23 23:32:44 Reply

At 1/26/03 10:40 AM, scarface15 wrote: for any one who like to play mgs 1 or 2

What about number 3?


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 08:22:42 Reply

At 8/23/06 11:32 PM, Reaper-chicken wrote:
At 1/26/03 10:40 AM, scarface15 wrote: for any one who like to play mgs 1 or 2
What about number 3?

8/23/03.
MGS:3 wasn't out them.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 13:24:06 Reply

At 8/23/06 11:32 PM, Reaper-chicken wrote:
At 1/26/03 10:40 AM, scarface15 wrote: for any one who like to play mgs 1 or 2
What about number 3?

GAH! i'm sick of ppl who r too stupid 2 kno that this club was established before mgs3 came out!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

and for all who want 2 join they can


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 13:40:23 Reply

ya me cuzz i got mgs snake eater its sick

babyshiv
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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 13:42:09 Reply

so wat its still mgs. and besides i have a ps1 & i have the original 4 it

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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 13:57:14 Reply

The japs are the patriots!

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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 14:46:48 Reply

At 8/24/06 01:42 PM, babyshiv wrote: so wat its still mgs. and besides i have a ps1 & i have the original 4 it

What the fuck are you talking about?
NG needs to add an IQ test to the creating a profile process.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 15:00:49 Reply

The japanese are the real patriots they along with the eu control the u.s and canada as puppet states omg!

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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 15:02:59 Reply

snake is in the new Super smash bros. look here


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 15:06:58 Reply

Just got MGS 2 for the PS2 for £1. I think it was worth it.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 21:20:38 Reply

At 8/23/06 09:01 PM, -Nev- wrote:
At 8/23/06 08:48 PM, AshfordPride wrote: Darpa Chief was killed by Fox Die...
Naah ahh. Decoy Octopus was killed by Fox Die. The DARPA Chief was tortured by Ocelot.

Oh yeah. Decoy is so forgetable though. Lamest Foxhounder ever.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-24 21:24:28 Reply

Sorry for double post, but, lol alt.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-25 16:33:07 Reply

At 8/24/06 09:20 PM, AshfordPride wrote:
Oh yeah. Decoy is so forgetable though. Lamest Foxhounder ever.

decoy:"lol, i play an importand part of the storry, but during the time that i live, you will never actualy care for me."

yep, blank.

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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-29 19:04:40 Reply

Ok guys, If u remember, I was playing through the entire mgs series over again, explaning everything to my friend along the way. Well i'm approaching the end of mgs3 and i'm doing the best to compress everything u learn from playing each game a million times into a single span. but i always have trouble with one part, WHY DID EVERYBODY DO WHAT THEY DID?

Why exactly did the boss defect? I kno she was ordered 2. Was it to get the legacy? and why was snake ordered on the virtuous mission if it was known he would interfere with the bosses mission.

Now, i kno that eva's mission was to get the legecy for china, and that the boss knew her from the beginnnig. but if the boss's mission was also to get the legacy, then why were they on the same side.

ok, ocleot worked for the director of the cia, and it was his mission to get the legacy so he could revive the patriots. now, was ocleot in russia be for he got this mission, wasn't he working in gru for years before this? or had he been working on the same mission for all that time. and in that case, what was the boss for? also, why would he try to kill Snake if there both from the cia. AND couldn't ocelot complete the missions that snake was supposed to? he was already in position.

Every time i play this game i can never figure out these parts. i donno if i'm just stupid, but i want to get this clarified before i have to describe it to my friend


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-29 19:26:18 Reply

At 8/29/06 07:04 PM, Sleeping_Insomniac wrote: ... WHY DID EVERYBODY DO WHAT THEY DID?

I'm not expert, but I'll give it a go.
Ermm, I refer to Big Boss and Snake and Big Boss sometimes... just natural, but I couldn't be bothered editting it. But you get the idea anyway...

Why exactly did the boss defect? I kno she was ordered 2. Was it to get the legacy?

Is that not explained ? She had to get the Legacy, and the only person who had a good enough reputation to be taken in by Volgin was The Boss.

and why was snake ordered on the virtuous mission if it was known he would interfere with the bosses mission.

Maybe it was just cause they needed an excuse for Snake to go after The Boss. She blows stuff up, breaks his arse and basically leaves it so he must meet her in battle. And maybe that was a request of The Boss. That Big Boss had to meet her, find out the truth and then kill her because he was the only one that The Boss was prepared to die fighting against. And because he deserved to know the truth. Yet if he had known beforehand then maybe he wouldn't have accepted the mission... or tried to do something that would actually jepordise the mission - such as trying to save The Boss. As opposed to completing it first and then finding out the truth.

Now, i kno that eva's mission was to get the legecy for china, and that the boss knew her from the beginnnig. but if the boss's mission was also to get the legacy, then why were they on the same side.

To help Big Boss survive perhaps - and thus finish off Shagohog and Volgin. And BB had to do it to resolve the US, Russian tensions. And/or to make sure their disguises weren't broken.

ok, ocleot worked for the director of the cia, and it was his mission to get the legacy so he could revive the patriots. now, was ocleot in russia be for he got this mission, wasn't he working in gru for years before this? or had he been working on the same mission for all that time.

Im such a case you'd think there would be a lot of planning and that Ocelet being in Russia a while beforehand would have been part of the plan to make sure he could get the Legacy. Plus he had no reputation like the Boss. He'd need to have worked his way ip in GRU before he had the rep to be close enough to Volgin to get the Legacy. Where as the Boss could literally just walk in.

and in that case, what was the boss for? also, why would he try to kill Snake if there both from the cia.

What makes you think he ever tried to kill Snake? Maybe he made it look like that, but as it showed at the end in the final duel, he never actually intended to kill him. Prehaps the Boss had explained how Snake was an effiecient soldier and that he would be able to survive a fight. Thus Ocelet made it appear he was trying to kill him so that his little squad of GRU soldiers didn't get suspicious. But never intended to actually finish him off. Plus Ocelot is a brilliant gunsman. No doubt he could shoot Snake in non-vital parts and make it seem he was trying to kill him. I mean, no doubt someone as talented as Ocelot could plant Snake in the face without trying... but why didn't he?

AND couldn't ocelot complete the missions that snake was supposed to? he was already in position.

Again, tensions between the US and Russia had to make it seem that a US soldier did it. And as Ocelot was in GRU they couldn't make it appear that the US had spies in the Russian forces... cause like it explains at the start, it would piss them off.

Every time i play this game i can never figure out these parts. i donno if i'm just stupid, but i want to get this clarified before i have to describe it to my friend

Well you've got my thoughts on these to consider now. I think they are pretty good...


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-29 20:19:17 Reply

I want to joing the club

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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-29 20:24:37 Reply

At 8/29/06 08:19 PM, Darklight95 wrote: I want to joing the club

I forgot to say that I luv MGS 3 it's one of the best games i've played.

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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-29 21:42:44 Reply

At 8/29/06 07:26 PM, -Nev- wrote:
Well you've got my thoughts on these to consider now. I think they are pretty good...

Ok, that was helpful... i forgot about the tensions that arose due to volgin blowing up sokolov's research facility. that's the reason for snake's involvement.

but i have 2 dissagree with you on the explenation for the virtous mission. the boss did nothing wrong when u started the virtous mission so u could not have been sent to go against her. i think u misread what i said and explaned why snake was in the second mission... which i fully understand. snake is the only one who could beat the boss.

but y would they interfere with the bosses mission before anything went wrong.

and, i thought about that explenation for the conflict between ocelot and snake, but i don't think that is it. I think it is stupid to say that every single time he pointed a time at snake he was pretending. he was pretty pissed when snake escaped from the sewers and he hadn't shot him. plus the whole thing with the motorcycle. i suppose you could say that it was all to fool the guards, but i think that's too cliche and shallow to be kojima's style. i prefere to think that ocelot got his orders to be a double agent, and specifically get the legacy. that he wasn't involved in any other cia plots. So he didn't care what happened to snake.
So ocelot got really pissed at snake when he beat him at the abandond research facility, and was determined to get even, but never could. Ocelot became more and more impressed with snake, and when snake saved his live by RPG-7ing a bunch of debris that was about to fall on him, it made him realise that snake was such a worthy foe, he didn't want to kill him, all he wanted 2 do was see who's luck was better. (the russian roulette on the wig).


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-29 21:46:27 Reply

OK. i'm re instating the entrence quiz, cause were getting way 2 many "can i join"s and i'm getting sick of saying yes yes yes.

So Seth_Brown Who was the child that the boss had on d-day.

Darklight Give one of Raiden's nicknames he had as a child.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-29 21:52:41 Reply

At 8/29/06 09:42 PM, Sleeping_Insomniac wrote: but i have 2 dissagree with you on the explenation for the virtous mission. the boss did nothing wrong when u started the virtous mission so u could not have been sent to go against her. i think u misread what i said and explaned why snake was in the second mission... which i fully understand. snake is the only one who could beat the boss.

Yes but the Virtuous Mission could just have been a set up to make sure that the second part actually happened.
Like everyone (cept Snake) knowing about Ocelots and The Bosses apperance and thus making sure that Snake was there when it happened. So that he had more reason to continue with his mission. As opposed to just giving up hope.

but y would they interfere with the bosses mission before anything went wrong.

Again, planned?

... he didn't want to kill him, all he wanted 2 do was see who's luck was better. (the russian roulette on the wig).

I think thats a possible explaination and a good one. But I find it hard to believe that Ocelot couldn't kill Snake. He was far too talented. If he truely wanted revenge no doubt he could of gotten it several times if he wasn't so cocky.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-30 10:25:35 Reply

At 8/29/06 09:52 PM, -Nev- wrote: Yes but the Virtuous Mission could just have been a set up to make sure that the second part actually happened.
Like everyone (cept Snake) knowing about Ocelots and The Bosses apperance and thus making sure that Snake was there when it happened. So that he had more reason to continue with his mission. As opposed to just giving up hope.

but, the only reason that the second part happened was because the Davy Crockett was fired. It wasn't snake's fault this happened. And no one wanted the second part to happen in the first place, so they wouldn't set up the virtous mission to make sure it did. And not everyone knew about Ocleot's and the Bosses apperance. The only one who did was the director of the cia himself.

I worked this over and i came up with the idea that the virtous mission was set up for 2 reasons. The first was simply to get sokolov, Keep in mind if snake had succedded at this there would be no worry of the stage 2 shagohod. And the second was to povide eye witness proof of the bosses defection. To bring back the information and to make it sure no one suspected the boss's defection was ordered by the us.

... he didn't want to kill him, all he wanted 2 do was see who's luck was better. (the russian roulette on the wig).
I think thats a possible explaination and a good one. But I find it hard to believe that Ocelot couldn't kill Snake. He was far too talented. If he truely wanted revenge no doubt he could of gotten it several times if he wasn't so cocky.

Now this part of the debate is just person opinion for the moment, and really can't be proven. so i'm not dissagreeing with you im just giving an alternative suition that i believe more likely.
But anyways, I don't think that ocelot was that Fantastic of a soldier yet. he was Very Good, with the gun twirling and what not, but he was still young. And since snake gave him the idea of using revolvers, he could only have been using them for a week by the time you face him in snake eater. I'm not sure where u get the idea that he was the best soldier ever. He definatley couldn't win a fight with the boss, and yet snake could. in fact, big boss was refered 2 as the greatest soldier ever. so my point is that Ocleot did try to kill snake, but couldn't, and i already wrote about why ocleot did what he did in my last post.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-30 10:41:29 Reply

At 8/30/06 10:25 AM, Sleeping_Insomniac wrote: but, the only reason that the second part happened was because the Davy Crockett was fired. It wasn't snake's fault this happened.

I don't think I'm making myself clear enough. I'm suggesting that prehaps the Davy Crockett, Ocelot and The Boss' appearances were all pre-planned without the knowing of Snake, Volgin, Sokolov etc. So that the second part had to go through and that Snake would have the desire to destroy Shagohod and desire to kill The Boss. Cause no one else could do it and not risk their life in the same way Eva, Ocelot and The Boss did. Cause surely if Volgin found out about traitors he'd murder him instantly (though The Boss would probaly whoop his anus).

And no one wanted the second part to happen in the first place, so they wouldn't set up the virtous mission to make sure it did.

Or so its let on. How do you know that it was planned to happen and they merely decided to make sure Snake never found out? I'm not suggesting this is the case. I'm just throwing theories out there.

And not everyone knew about Ocleot's and the Bosses apperance. The only one who did was the director of the cia himself.

Again, or so its let on. We're playing the role of Snake, and he doesn't know. Prehaps on purpose.
If Snake knew the (potential) truth then he probably wouldn't try and protect Eva, kill Ocelot and kill The Boss. Instead trying to convince them to take alternate options (example - convncing the Boss to run away with them at the end).

I worked this over and i came up with the idea that the virtous mission was set up for 2 reasons. The first was simply to get sokolov, Keep in mind if snake had succedded at this there would be no worry of the stage 2 shagohod. And the second was to povide eye witness proof of the bosses defection. To bring back the information and to make it sure no one suspected the boss's defection was ordered by the us.

I think that Hideo is far more insane than to make it as simple as that. With all the twists and turns in the plot I really don't think that is the case.
Plus like you said, why should Snake even get involved if there wasn't greater reason than merely getting Sokolov out alive. No doubt Ocelot or The Boss could achieve that much easier.

Ocelot part...

I'm not saying that Ocelot is the greatest soldier or even a particularly good one. What I'm saying is he's an amazing marksman with a pistol. Remember that guy he kills in the Virtuous Mission on the roof? Where he ricotchets off the grider? Why couldn't he do such wonders against Snake? Unless he didn't actually intend to.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-30 18:19:46 Reply

At 8/30/06 10:41 AM, -Nev- wrote: a lot of stuff

Ur making a lot of good points and i salute you for it, but i still dissagree on a few things.

:The Virtous Mission part

I don't see why the second part should even have happened if something haden't gone wrong. I mean having the whole virtous mission and davy crocket thing staged seemes like a very roundabout and ineffectiant way of just getting the legacy. Wouldn't it just have been easier if the boss and ocelot worked together to get the legacy without snakes involvement? u say the first part was to make snake want to fight the boss, but there was no reason to fight the boss at all before the davy crockett incident. and to say that was planed is to say that america is creating it's own problems on purpose just to fix them.
Lyndon Banes Johnson, Krustchef, the boss, and Eva all explane that the davy crockett was a misshap and it was because of that misshap that the boss had to die.

:I think that Hideo is far more insane than to make it as simple as that. With all the twists and turns in the plot I really don't think that is the case.
Plus like you said, why should Snake even get involved if there wasn't greater reason than merely getting Sokolov out alive. No doubt Ocelot or The Boss could achieve that much easier.

It goes like this. America wanted the legacy and no shagohod. the boss and ocleot worked to get the legacy, snake was sent to get sokolov, thereby ensureing the shagohod is never completed. Ocelot and the boss could not have got sokolov out without blowing their cover or endangering their position. i hope i said enough here.

Ocelot part...

yes ocelot is a good marksman, and yes that shot on the roof was cool, but those were typical generic guards. Snake killed countless of them himself. there no better than targets. where as snake himself as the master soldier would be MUCH harder to kill than a simple guard. don't you remember snake incopasatating the entire ocelot unit and his commander. it takes more than a good marksman to kill snake.

I am enjoying this debate, lets keep it going untill we reach either an agreement or a stalemate.
If any other ppl in the club have a comment, don't hesitate to post it.
We might be able to communicate better if we Instant Message. My aim address is snoozininsomnia. IM me

Let me just end by saying this. Your questioning everything too much. a lot of your explenations involve not believing what information were given, and although in MGS there are a lot of examples of characters either lying or giving misleading information, every single thing a character says can't be thought of as a lie. on a lot of this stuff you seem to be going out of your way to think of a situation in which information given to snake is a lie even when the truth seemes to make more sense.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-31 07:04:27 Reply

I couldn't play MGS due to the crappy camera. All that I could ever play was MGS3: Subsistence. Right now I'm trying to defeat Ocelot on European Extreme. Towards the end, he reloads too fast!

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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-31 08:40:09 Reply

I want in, quiz me.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-31 09:05:05 Reply

At 8/30/06 06:19 PM, Sleeping_Insomniac wrote: Lyndon Banes Johnson, Krustchef, the boss, and Eva all explane that the davy crockett was a misshap and it was because of that misshap that the boss had to die.

The US gave The Bossthe DC so she could give it to Volgin and appear as though she had turned traitor. But does it not seem like a dangerous gift to give someone? What other use does a nuke have besides mass destruction. For that reason I can't help but think it was just a sheer coinsedence.

i hope i said enough here.

Fair enough... I have no quarrells with that.

it takes more than a good marksman to kill snake.

Still Ocelot had many chances to kill Snake. The sewer, the torture room, the Sokolov part (if he hadn't pissed about with his gun). Again I find it difficult to accept that a soldier would result to the luck to kill someone. A true soldier no doubt would dispose their enemy without hestitation or ego. Remember in MGS2.... Ocelot wasted no time killing all those he wanted (Scott Dolph, etc). So I think the whole luck thing could of been a way to ensure Snake survived, while just appearing like a loyal Russian soldier with an ego.

If any other ppl in the club have a comment, don't hesitate to post it.

I agree.

Let me just end by saying this. Your questioning everything too much...

Hideo is insane, theres no doubt about that. He has a very creative mind and to make everything seem basic and simple is below him. No doubt there are worlds of subtleties in MGS. I believe we're just skimming the surface.

And example of the whole weirdness and subtleness of MGS3.... we think the characters are speaking in English. Yet as we discover with Snakes initial meeting with Sokolov, they are in fact speaking in Russian.

Thats a very simple thing yet Hideo manages to turn it into something clever. He's a smart and quirky director. And I truely refuse to accept that anything he touches is simple.


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-31 10:08:07 Reply

The US gave The Bossthe DC so she could give it to Volgin and appear as though she had turned traitor...

IT looks like we've reached a point where disscussion on this matter would be frutless. we came up with two likely ideas, but both are grounded on seperate ideas that can't be changed unless new information is given to us by hideo.

Ocelot: Cold blooded killer? or Talented actor.

This whole part is just speculation on Ocelot's character, with not to many hard examples in the game. so i shall summerize my views of young ocelot thusly: He is a very good soldier and marksman with no qualms of taking the life of your standard guard. At this point in his life tho, he did show he had some morals, in his dissapproving of volgins killing of his fellow russians. i feel that although he was raised by the by the philosophers and works for america, he still reckognizes that he has russian blood and therefore considers himself russian. at this age he is cocky about his abilities, and shows much more emotion than his older self does. Nev, u metioned that a true soldior wouldn't hesitate to kill someone he wanted 2, but this doesn't apply to ocelot for several reasons. 1 He is still young and lets his emotions controll him. 2 Killing snake was more a personal thing than a duity, therefore he wanted to set the terms of the action. 3. The examples of him killing in mgs2 were of the older, more controlled ocelot where petty whims don't guide him. Finally you mentioned many examples of times he could have killed snake, but Ocelot didn't just want to kill snake, he wanted to prove his superiority to him, and shooting him while hes hanging from a rope with a bag on his head won't prove that. at the times he DID attempt to kill snake (The abandoned reasearch facility, the feild strip above the caves, the motorcycle) the feild was evenly matched. and he lost.

Hideo is insane...

Yes i kno that. I no there are MANY examples of decete an lies in the games, but i feel your missing my point.
My point is that your questioning more than what's questionable. your taking a lot of the careful explanations given to us at the end of the game, and dismissing them as lies, when they do make sense, and there is little evidence to say there lying. I don't think hideo would come up with a very clever and solid explanation, wright every word for it, have it make perfect sense, and then decide that the whole explenation is just a lie and choose a very shallow truth, but give no indication that this truth exists.
I could do the same thing with the other games, i could say that the patriots don't exist and that everyone in contact with snake and raiden are just saying these things so that they have entertainment for the new intergalatic television show, "Lets trick the Soldiers!!!"
I'm exaggerating there, but you get my idea. you can't dismiss what a character says as fact unless there is evidence of it from hideo.

And example of the whole weirdness and subtleness of MGS3.... we think the characters are speaking in English. Yet as we discover with Snakes initial meeting with Sokolov, they are in fact speaking in Russian.

Thats a very simple thing yet Hideo manages to turn it into something clever. He's a smart and quirky director. And I truely refuse to accept that anything he touches is simple.

Yes i do agree with you here. I love his directing style and quirkyness. but the explenation i gave was far from simple.


Hovering around Consciousness

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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-31 10:18:49 Reply

At 8/31/06 10:08 AM, Sleeping_Insomniac wrote:
Yes i do agree with you here. I love his directing style and quirkyness. but the explenation i gave was far from simple.

We've repeated ourselves a couple of times and I think its clear we both have different views on this.... so I can we just agree to disagree.

Now other members... contribute with your own opinions. Theres more than two members in this club.


Metal Hell ## Guitarists ## Stand Up Comedy
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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-08-31 14:38:18 Reply

At 8/31/06 07:04 AM, Toms_Pulp wrote: I couldn't play MGS due to the crappy camera. All that I could ever play was MGS3: Subsistence. Right now I'm trying to defeat Ocelot on European Extreme. Towards the end, he reloads too fast!

I had a lot of trouble with that part too on euro extreme. Expecially cause i was trying to have no kills. just keep trying and u'll get it.

I want in, quiz me.

o...k..., since no one answered the other question i gave, Who is the bosses son?


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Response to metal gear solid club 2006-09-01 02:38:18 Reply

Ocelot.

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