Exams for Immigrants

[Laminated]

Holland launches the immigrant quiz
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TWO MEN kissing in a park and a topless woman bather are featured in a film that will be shown to would-be immigrants to the Netherlands.

The reactions of applicants — including Muslims — will be examined to see whether they are able to accept the country’s liberal attitudes.

From this Wednesday, the DVD — which also shows the often crime-ridden ghettos where poorer immigrants might end up living — will form part of an entrance test, in Dutch, covering the language and culture of Holland.
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Basically, Holland has recently introduced an Exam for would-be immigrants, which tests everything from their language skills (Subpar Dutch will result in rejection) to their compatibality with the current social climate of the country. The DVD mentioned above is just a small part of it. So, what does everyone think of this ? Good idea ?

Personaly, I think so. In fact, I would go so far as to say it's a very good idea. I hate to pick on Muslims or seem to be generalising here, but they seem to be the most prominent example at the moment. Some of them come to Western countries and believe they can completely retain every aspect of their own culture, and minimally accept the one of their adopted country. These type of people are completely undesirable, and letting them in without any sort of compatability tests, as almost all European countries have been doing, will only result in conflict. Ergo, I really do believe these sort of tests should be adopted across all of Europe and America.

It's not just the culture thing, language is a big issue, too. I've always believed that if you're going to live in a country, you should have an adequete knowedge of the language beforehand. I suppose this does tie in directly with culture, because unless you know the language, there's no way you'd be able to immerse yourself the country at large. Whole communities get formed of people who are neither culturaly adept nor capable of speaking in the native lingo. If said community comprises of a group of people who are particularly hostile to their host nation (Again, Muslims being a prime example), that's when major culture clashes occur, to the detriment of everyone.

So really, I think more countries should adopt tests like these.

Also, I really don't want to sound like I'm picking on Islam here, if anyone thinks that, but it's hard to deny that with certain Muslims, and especially in some European countries, this isolation does occur, and can be very harmful. I really don't oppose immigration at all, as that provides an invaluable asset to any nation, but I do think we should ensure that the people coming here understand and accept that they will have to tolerate, and abide by our laws. Once they do that ? Welcome home, Partner.

[MortifiedPenguins]

I totally agree with the language part but not with the culture part. Who cares about thier more liberal minded views of the world. This shouldn't be a part of a Immigration Test.

All these tests are for is too see if you would be a good citizen, not if you dislike the culture or not.

[Pyroskiros]

At 3/21/06 06:46 PM, Laminated wrote: Holland launches the immigrant quiz
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Also, I really don't want to sound like I'm picking on Islam here, if anyone thinks that, but it's hard to deny that with certain Muslims, and especially in some European countries, this isolation does occur, and can be very harmful. I really don't oppose immigration at all, as that provides an invaluable asset to any nation, but I do think we should ensure that the people coming here understand and accept that they will have to tolerate, and abide by our laws. Once they do that ? Welcome home, Partner.

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When we demande others to accept our own ways, we should also tolerate their
ways in vice versa. It is not an issue of nationality nor location, but simply tolerance.
It is so easy to point a finger at a certain group of people whilst failing to see the same
within one's own self, isn't it?

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[RedSkunk]

Weird.

[Begoner]

I like the idea that you can only get accepted if you accept some of the liberal ideas, however I disagree with it in principle. You should be acquainted with the culture, but you shouldn't be assimilated like that. Maybe a toned-down version would be better.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 3/21/06 08:15 PM, Begoner wrote: I like the idea that you can only get accepted if you accept some of the liberal ideas, however I disagree with it in principle. You should be acquainted with the culture, but you shouldn't be assimilated like that. Maybe a toned-down version would be better.

I disagree. It's essential for them to accept the culture of the Netherlands as it is. They have to ACCEPT It, not AGREE with it. For example: You can be an evangelistic christian and ACCEPT gay marriage, but you don't have to TAKE PART in it yourself.

[Begoner]

I disagree. It's essential for them to accept the culture of the Netherlands as it is. They have to ACCEPT It, not AGREE with it. For example: You can be an evangelistic christian and ACCEPT gay marriage, but you don't have to TAKE PART in it yourself.

Of course they have to accept all the laws that are in place, like gay marriage. However, they can retain their culture as long as it does not violate any Dutch laws. They do not have to behave like a typical Dutch person to be able to enter the country. They can dress modestly however they want, even with veils and whatnot, even though it is not part of the Dutch culture. They have to accept the Dutch culture, but need not be a part of it.

[RedSkunk]

At 3/21/06 08:18 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: I disagree. It's essential for them to accept the culture of the Netherlands as it is. They have to ACCEPT It, not AGREE with it. For example: You can be an evangelistic christian and ACCEPT gay marriage, but you don't have to TAKE PART in it yourself.

And if I'm a sane, rational individual, do I have to accept child molestation?

[Papa-Smuff]

I think Fenrus is right. I am all for testing to be immigrants but just kind of for language. I dont think immigrants have to completely take on a countries ideology.

[Laminated]

At 3/21/06 08:23 PM, red_skunk wrote: And if I'm a sane, rational individual, do I have to accept child molestation?

No. Just so long as you don't move to a country where it is acceptable.

If Molesting children was a frequent pass time of some far flung country, and you moved there out of choice, then yes, I'm afraid you would have to accept it. But assuming you were vehemently opposed to the practise, then I would imagine you wouldn't even think of going there in the first place.

[Chumbawamba]

Ha ha, isn't that exactly what Proposition 24 was in an episode of The Simpsons? The one which Mayor Quimby decided to make all of the immigrants have to take an exam in order to stay in the U.S.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 3/21/06 08:23 PM, red_skunk wrote:

And if I'm a sane, rational individual, do I have to accept child molestation?

You can protest it to the fullest extent that you can, but if it's law, you have to accept it (while fighting it!), but not take part in it.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 3/21/06 09:13 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote:

At 3/21/06 08:23 PM, red_skunk wrote:

You can protest it to the fullest extent that you can, but if it's law, you have to accept it (while fighting it!), but not take part in it.

In Nazi Germany they were exterminating the Jews, should you accept that.

In Communist China, They supress people's right to protest and religion with murder, exile and prison.

Should you accept that.

[RedSkunk]

At 3/21/06 08:36 PM, Laminated wrote: If Molesting children was a frequent pass time of some far flung country, and you moved there out of choice, then yes, I'm afraid you would have to accept it. But assuming you were vehemently opposed to the practise, then I would imagine you wouldn't even think of going there in the first place.

At 3/21/06 09:13 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: You can protest it to the fullest extent that you can, but if it's law, you have to accept it (while fighting it!), but not take part in it.

So both of you are saying that fifty years ago, Martin Luther King Jr. had to accept racism? Two-hundred years ago, I would have had to accept witchburnings?

Here comes the whammy – why?

[ClickToPlay]

I wouldnt mind seeing that DvD, topless women for an exam? I only wish it would be taught in schools, then there would be a sudden increase in children going to school, think about it.

One day : "A statistics show that 1billion kids are not enrolled to schools"
Second day : The new sex DvD lesson arrives to schools all over the world"
Third day : only 5 children are NOT enrolled to schools across the world!"

On the serious part, why does everyone think that Muslims hate sex and pornography? Since im a Kuwaiti (Living in America for University now) When I was a teenager in Kuwait, sex was HUGE. Everyone talks about it, every kid watches it, and there's flirting between boys and girls, there's dating there's also kissing!

Heck, there's also rape! How more loving can rape get?

[dELtaluca]

At 3/21/06 09:17 PM, Fenrus1989 wrote: In Communist China, They supress people's right to protest and religion with murder, exile and prison.

Should you accept that.

if you dont accept it, then its simple, dont live there.

[Laminated]

At 3/21/06 09:17 PM, Fenrus1989 wrote: In Nazi Germany they were exterminating the Jews, should you accept that.

No, you shouldn't. It wouldn't have been very sensible for Jews to have moved to Nazi Germany at the time, either. When all of this was going on, people had the choice whether or not to move there knowing full well what went on, and if they still chose to do so then, entirely without force, then it shows that they must have been at least capable of tolerating the actions of the people in charge. Otherwise, why go there?

Also, it's quite a large stretch comparing the acceptance of gay marriage, to genocide.

China. Should you accept that.

No.

If you want to freely practise your religion, don't move to China. It's that simple. Keep in mind this isn't about the people who already live there and want change, it's about people wanting to move to a country. I find it hard to believe someone would find a culture morally abhorent, but still decide to immerse themselves in it.

At 3/21/06 09:17 PM, red_skunk wrote: So both of you are saying that fifty years ago, Martin Luther King Jr. had to accept racism?

No, I'm not saying that at all.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm more or less certain Martin Luther King Jr was born in the US. The situation is different because if he had been born elsewhere, somewhere that didn't have racism as a standard practise, then by moving to the US out of choice, after completely evaluating all of his options, he would be consenting to what happened there.

That, along with the Witchhunts, was about indigenous people changing an undesirable situation. Not a group of immigrants moving to a country out of choice, and then complaining about a situation they freely put themselves in, especially when the rest of society is happy with said situation.

[SEXY-FETUS]

Not a bad idea, but I have a strong feeling if they were judging reactions to conservative views you'd all be up in arms yelling that they're trying to stack the deck of there political party only allowing those they think will vote for them in...

[MarkyX]

At 3/21/06 06:59 PM, Fenrus1989 wrote: I totally agree with the language part but not with the culture part. Who cares about thier more liberal minded views of the world. This shouldn't be a part of a Immigration Test.

All these tests are for is too see if you would be a good citizen, not if you dislike the culture or not.

If you dislike the culture, you will not be a good citizen.

The only people who are outraged by this are closed-minded people who do not believe in tolerance. They are screening out the troublemakers and I wouldn't mind if Canada did the same thing.

[RedSkunk]

At 3/22/06 02:12 PM, Laminated wrote: No, I'm not saying that at all.

Actually, you sort of are. The moving part is completely irrelevant. You're saying that people ought to "accept" any sort of behavior that is dominant in a society. But that is bullshit, there is no reason to blindly accept everything – especially if you're moving to that country. If I was moving to some sub-Saharan African country, I still wouldn't want my daughter's genitals to be mutilated. Even if Martin Luther King Jr. moved to the United States, that does not mean he should have accepted racism. Blindly accepting anything is lazy and ignorant. You're advocating sheep-ism, and you haven't given a single reason why.

[dELtaluca]

At 3/22/06 02:34 PM, red_skunk wrote: But that is bullshit, there is no reason to blindly accept everything – especially if you're moving to that country. If I was moving to some sub-Saharan African country, I still wouldn't want my daughter's genitals to be mutilated.

if thats the countries culture then you just dont move there. you move to a country were they're country has a culture you can accept

[RedSkunk]

At 3/22/06 06:27 PM, -dELta- wrote: if thats the countries culture then you just dont move there. you move to a country were they're country has a culture you can accept

Why do you believe that I have to accept gang rape, elderly sodomy, and preteen S&M just to move to a place? Why don't you people actually make a case for your ludicrous position, instead of just saying it over and over? Perhaps because there is no case?

[TheTrueMrJack]

TWO MEN kissing in a park and a topless woman bather are featured in a film that will be shown to would-be immigrants to the Netherlands.

Dude, free porn! Maybe they are doing this to see if they will get more male US immagrants earning citizenship.

[TheTrueMrJack]

At 3/23/06 12:14 AM, TheTrueMrJack wrote:

TWO MEN kissing in a park and a topless woman bather are featured in a film that will be shown to would-be immigrants to the Netherlands.

Dude, free porn! Maybe they are doing this to see if they will get more male US immagrants earning citizenship.

Correction: It works for both sides, 2 men kissing for gays and the toplesss woman. Win motherfucking win situation.

Pass the ketchup.

[ReiperX]

I think its a great idea as a whole. The language aspect of it is very necisarry to be successful from day to day. While they don't have to do the "cultural" things in the country, they at least know what to expect and what they are going to have to accept as normal, and if they can't they should find elswhere to live.

[TommyGun]

lol, sounds like a cheesy porno! Still, if you can't accept a countris liberties, GTFO....