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Ok:

This is for all the anti-choice (sorry, "pro-life") people out there.

Say that your spouse (or, if you're a woman, that you) are carrying a fetus. They go in for genetic testing because they're over 30. The karyotype comes back with trisomy 21. It's 12 weeks into the pregnancy. What do you do?

Abort? Go through to full term?

I personally am pro-choice, but I assume they would go through with it and have it adopted.

I dont think Id ever want a Downs Syndrome kid but its hard to say what Id do considering Ive never had a kid and I dont know what feelings Id feel towards it even if the kid was gonna be all screwed up.

I mean, its hard to say Id just kill offspring of mine just cause it was messed up. That sounds pretty harsh.

Yeah, it would be harder than hell to face, but I wouldn't kill the kid for being a retard.

At 3/20/06 09:51 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Ok:

This is for all the anti-choice (sorry, "pro-life") people out there.

Say that your spouse (or, if you're a woman, that you) are carrying a fetus. They go in for genetic testing because they're over 30. The karyotype comes back with trisomy 21. It's 12 weeks into the pregnancy. What do you do?

Abort? Go through to full term?

Definitely go through to full term. If we as a people attempedt to weed out those with disabilities, I think we would start to develope a flippant attitude about suffering and pain.

Say that your spouse (or, if you're a woman, that you) are carrying a fetus. They go in for genetic testing because they're over 30. The karyotype comes back with trisomy 21. It's 12 weeks into the pregnancy. What do you do?

Abort? Go through to full term?

Well, actually the situation your describing has very litte to do with abortion at all. Your situation presents the issue of whether it is ethical or moral to abort a child because they are mentaly disabled NOT whether it is ethical or moral to abort a child child. Don't confuse the two.

In any case, with current abortion laws, you COULD abort in the 12th week,

If anyone who is pro-life is to say go abort because of this situation, you've pretty much made a jackass out of yourself by being a hypocite.

Abort. I think it's rather cruel to bring someone into being under such terms. It's probably best to make sure they don't have to live such an awful life, long before they even start it.

Hmmm, by trisomy 21, you mean down syndrome, do you not?
Well I think that I would just try to raise the kid.

At 3/20/06 11:31 PM, zzazzman wrote: Abort. I think it's rather cruel to bring someone into being under such terms. It's probably best to make sure they don't have to live such an awful life, long before they even start it.

I work with children who have sevre cases of Down's, and they are the happiest people I know. It's not cruel at all. If you can make sure that your son/daughter is treated right medically, then go through with it.

At 3/21/06 12:13 AM, peedee wrote:

At 3/20/06 11:31 PM, zzazzman wrote: Abort. I think it's rather cruel to bring someone into being under such terms. It's probably best to make sure they don't have to live such an awful life, long before they even start it.

I work with children who have sevre cases of Down's, and they are the happiest people I know. It's not cruel at all. If you can make sure that your son/daughter is treated right medically, then go through with it.

Exactly, peedee, you make a good point. What's cruel, is dismissing these children as something that can be expeditiously eliminated, when it really isn't their fault how they were born. It's nobody's fault, really.

Just because somebody has down syndrome dosen't mean they can't live a full fufilling life. My cousin has down syndrome and she's doing fine, in fact she's a lot happier with her life then most people I know. And I don't support aborting children because they may be born with handicaps, it clearly crosses ethical lines and gets into the area of creating a perfect race, that sound kind of familiar...

What's maybe a better example is if we can detect something like Progeria in-utero. A child born with Progeria is garaunteed to have a short, painful life with zero hope of anything other than whithering away and dying, most likely before their 13th birthday.

Downs Syndrome can be dealt with, and those with it can lead happy, productive lives. Something like Progeria, however... well, i wouldn't wish that kind of life on my worst enemy.

At 3/21/06 12:28 AM, SteelSwilla wrote: Exactly, peedee, you make a good point. What's cruel, is dismissing these children as something that can be expeditiously eliminated, when it really isn't their fault how they were born. It's nobody's fault, really.

They haven't been born yet. You aren't eliminating a person, you're eliminating an embryo, a fertilized egg. After 12 there is still very little neurological and brain developement. I will argue to the death that a fetus does not have the same rights as a human. I will also argue to the death that all decisions made for the fetus belong in the mother's hands, since they possess the same body and the fetus does not yet have a developed brain. These are arguments that belong in an abortion thread... one specifically about abortion.

It's not cruel to dismiss them because they are not children yet. They haven't been born.

At 3/20/06 10:51 PM, -Shadic- wrote: If anyone who is pro-life is to say go abort because of this situation, you've pretty much made a jackass out of yourself by being a hypocite.

Nice call captain obvious.

I hope you get banned for being such a giant dumbass.

At 3/21/06 02:12 AM, zzazzman wrote:

At 3/21/06 12:28 AM, SteelSwilla wrote:

They haven't been born yet. You aren't eliminating a person, you're eliminating an embryo, a fertilized egg. After 12 there is still very little neurological and brain developement. I will argue to the death that a fetus does not have the same rights as a human. I will also argue to the death that all decisions made for the fetus belong in the mother's hands, since they possess the same body and the fetus does not yet have a developed brain. These are arguments that belong in an abortion thread... one specifically about abortion.

It's not cruel to dismiss them because they are not children yet. They haven't been born.

You may think it isn't cruel to terminate a twelve-week-old fetus who shows the signs of Downs Syndrome, but can you explain to me what is civilized about it? Can you even explain to me what is necessary about it? Before you answer that question, re-read Ravariel and peedee's posts.Children with Downs can go far in life, if they have people who support them and help them to be the best at whatever they try. Fetuses with Downs Syndrome indicaters should not be terminated. The fetus is not responsible for its plight, so why should the fetus be terminated?

I'm fairly pro-life, in that I think it's wrong to abort for any reason other than an absolute life-threatening situation. Abortion for any reason after the second term has began really seems wrong to me, but if there is significant proof that the fetus will die, along with the mother, if she attempts birthing the child, then I would think she should have the right, but only because both of them could die.

Going with my personal beliefs, I think that it would be very, very fucking wrong to abort the 12 week old fetus because of the possibility of downs syndrome. As I've read a couple of other posts made in this topic, it doesn't seem like somebody with downs has to lead a horrible, miserable life. If the mother is quite capable of birthing the child with little risks to herself, then there is just no reason to abort.

Its not the person with Trisomy who leads an awful life, its the people who are stuck with them.

At 3/21/06 03:07 PM, -poxpower- wrote: Its not the person with Trisomy who leads an awful life, its the people who are stuck with them.

Is this expierience talking, or research?

People with Down's are some of the sweetest people on the planet. Sure, it would be a little inconvenient at times, but I definately wouldn't abort a child with Down's, and that's disregarding my stance on abortions, anyway.

Mild Down Syndrome isn't that big a deal.

Yes the kid is a wee bit awkward and has a speech impediment, but otherwise there normal people.

More sever cases aren't that bad either. One of my mums friends has a kid that has Down Syndrome.

He's a 23 year old boy that has the mind of an 11 year old.

He likes lego's, video games and other child amusements. He's a nice kid, respectfull and generally polite.

There are no tests to tell how severe the Down Syndrome will be.

Here's another one:

What if they had a highly debilitating (sp.) disease that would be incredibly painful, but had no cure?

At 3/21/06 08:37 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: Here's another one:

What if they had a highly debilitating (sp.) disease that would be incredibly painful, but had no cure?

Do severe mental illnesses count? You know, like Vincent D'Onofrio's character in The Cell , who's mental illness was prevalant in utero? ( That movie was an embellishment of schizophrenia, I think)

I'll be more specific:

It results in paralysis, increased sensation of pain (many many times greater) and retardation.

At 3/21/06 09:03 PM, GSgt_Liberal wrote: I'll be more specific:

It results in paralysis, increased sensation of pain (many many times greater) and retardation.

That would be extremely sad but I would still have the child.

In the Catholic Church, Abortion in Almost all cases is bad. In the Catholic Church, they believe that an Life begins at Conception and that an Unbaptised Child can't reach heaven but will be stuck in Limbo.

Plus, no matter what, It's still one of my children. I would hate to see him through that pain.

So if you call us anti-choice, can we call you pro-death?

Why are you testing embryos again?

At 3/21/06 09:32 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote: Why are you testing embryos again?

You don't. You can check for genetic disorders by taking a sample of the surrounding amniotic fluid via amniocentesis.

I think it's an interesting question even for those who are pro-choice. I believe that I would decide to abort, but it's a deeply troubling and confusing issue. Where is the line between serious disease, and designer babies with the right color eyes?

*shrug*

At 3/21/06 09:42 PM, red_skunk wrote: I think it's an interesting question even for those who are pro-choice. I believe that I would decide to abort, but it's a deeply troubling and confusing issue. Where is the line between serious disease, and designer babies with the right color eyes?

But think abou this. If you can tell all the Genetic Attributes or Disease Information, what would that do to his life.

Could a Insurance company deny a person Life Insurance if they found out that person might get Alzhiemers.

If Alcholism is found out to be gentic, could a job deny a person a job because of it.