Leave Islam = Death

[TheBlueBullet]

Man faces death penalty for becoming Christian Despite ouster of Taliban by U.S., court still prosecutes ex-Muslim
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Despite the fact the hardline Taliban regime is no longer in power, an Afghan man faces possible execution for allegedly abandoning his Islamic roots and becoming a Christian.

"Yes that's true, a man has converted to Christianity. He's being tried in one of our courts," Supreme Court judge Ansarullah Mawlavizada told the Middle East Times.

The case centers on Abdul Rah, believed to be 41, who converted from Islam to Christianity some 16 years ago. His relatives reportedly notified authorities about the conversion.

The constitution in Afghanistan is based on Shariah law, which states any Muslim who rejects his or her religion should be sentenced to death.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge told the Associated Press. "It is an attack on Islam. ... The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty."

If he indeed is sentenced, Rahman would be the first person punished for leaving Islam since the Taliban was ousted by American-led forces in late 2001, in the wake of the Sept. 11 terror attacks on the U.S.

Prosecutor Abdul Wasi says he offered to drop the charges if Rahman made the switch back to Islam, but the defendant is maintaining his Christian beliefs. The judge is expected to rule within two months.

About 99 percent of Afghanistan's 28 million people are Muslims, with the rest mostly Hindus.

Im glad that im not Muslim! This really sucks for this guy. The best thing you can do is to die for what you believe in. "The term Sharia refers to the body of Islamic law." - source So if your a Muslim and you switch religions, beforwarned, it could mean your death.

[Maus]

You are confusing "being Muslim" with "living in a country ruled by Sharia Law." It isn't our business to make other countries govern themselves differently than they want to be.

[fahrenheit]

I believe that is only in Afghan, and lets face it, that place is messed up when it comes to things like this.
And I dont think Islam itself is responsible, but since the majority of the country is islam its like if you switch out of it you switch you of your country.

[Monocrom]

At 3/19/06 10:44 PM, Souta wrote:

The constitution in Afghanistan is based on Shariah law, which states any Muslim who rejects his or her religion should be sentenced to death.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge told the Associated Press. "It is an attack on Islam. ... The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty."

1) And there are still people who claim that Muslims are not intolerant or blood-thirsty. As much as folks might be opposed to Christianity, you don't get executed if you decide to leave.

2) How the Hell is it an "attack on Islam" when a person wants to switch religions?! It's not as though the guy is going to start a Christian Terrorist organization, and then bomb $#^t over there! WTF?! ......... Considering the quote above, is there any Muslin NG user who actually wants to try to argue that the prosecuter is NOT a freaking lunatic?! ......... Anybody?

[Monocrom]

At 3/19/06 10:58 PM, Maus wrote: You are confusing "being Muslim" with "living in a country ruled by Sharia Law." It isn't our business to make other countries govern themselves differently than they want to be.

Sorry for the double-post........ But you can't possibly be saying that we should just accept the fact that a person will probably be executed for converting! He's not a serial-killer, he didn't bomb any buildings full of innocent people, Hell; he's not even accused of plotting terrorist acts in his own country. If he gets executed, it'll be because of his beliefs! What kind of Dark Ages B.S. is THAT?! ...........

Oh and here's the best part, everyone who hates Muslims; they'll be able to point to this incident (If the guy gets executed) and be able to say, "Look, here's a perfect example of how ALL Muslims are blood-thirsty lunatics; and how their religion is based on insanity." This poor guy getting executed is the best thing that could happen to every Muslim-Hater in the world!

[Elfer]

You know, when people point out that every developed country in the western world has abolished the death penalty except the US, people from the US have a tendency to say "mind your own business we run our country how we want"

But when another country does something the US sees as unfair, inhumane punishment that doesn't fit the crime, they get up on their moral high horse and start getting all pissed off about it.

[Maus]

At 3/19/06 11:17 PM, Monocrom wrote: But you can't possibly be saying that we should just accept the fact that a person will probably be executed for converting!

Yes. I am. Not everyone lives in a westernised culture. YOU may think our culture is all pretty and civilised, but it doesn't work for them. Try to understand that PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.

As far as the ignorant Dark Ages comment, do you know what cultures PRESERVED most of the learning that was lost during that time? Yeah.

[TheShrike]

At 3/19/06 11:17 PM, Monocrom wrote: Sorry for the double-post........ But you can't possibly be saying that we should just accept the fact that a person will probably be executed for converting! He's not a serial-killer, he didn't bomb any buildings full of innocent people, Hell; he's not even accused of plotting terrorist acts in his own country. If he gets executed, it'll be because of his beliefs! What kind of Dark Ages B.S. is THAT?! ...........

Well, look at it like this:

Yeah, it is wrong, but what is the alternative? We go and tell them to STFU and get modern and abolish Sharia law? HA! They'd have the Taliban back in control before we could blink.

It isn't our place to decide what laws are right or wrong over there. Afghanistan is not America. We went in to oust the Taliban for harboring Bin Laden, not because we thought they had some ass-backwards laws.

HEY! In Singapore, they whip people with canes for littering. I guess we should go show them what's right and wrong, too, 'eh?

[Maus]

At 3/19/06 11:17 PM, Monocrom wrote: This poor guy getting executed is the best thing that could happen to every Muslim-Hater in the world!

yes, and fred helps is the PERFECT Christian for Christian bashers. Good lord.

BLEAH.

[Monocrom]

To: The Shrike & Maus-

Even in this insane world, some things are still Black & White, Right & Wrong. Sometimes, it's not about cultural differences. (Hell, I was born into Communist Russia. They tried to make me hate America; they failed). While I live in America, I do retain a lot of Old-World, Eastern European beliefs. East and West both tell me that executing someone for converting is just plain wrong! .......... Also, I never said we should use force to oppose what's happening to this individual. But there's nothing wrong with bringing a bit of political pressure to bear. Let it be known that the world is watching. Hell, if the judge or the prosecutor are made aware of the fact that the rest of the world will look at them as blood-thirsty lunatics, they MIGHT be a bit less willing to execute the guy.

[LazyDrunk]

I gotta say that executing someone for a truly victimless crime is fucked up.

We don't have to nuke them for it, or even penalize them in some other way. ALl we gotta do is make another note of it, more transgressions against humanity by a majority over a minority.

[seventy-one]

At 3/19/06 10:44 PM, Souta wrote:
"The term Sharia refers to the body of Islamic law." - source

The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed."

One can see it as Islamic law, but since all it is, is some peoples interpretation of the Quran and the Hadith, all it is, is simply "Law Based on Islam", and not "Islamic Law". Since there is no Vatican, or central authority in Islam one can interpret any verse the way he/she chooses to interpret it. Lets take for example a verse that should go, "The unbelievers abode is the Fire". I can say, that means that God will punish them by sending them to hell in due time. But the guy next to me can say that all unbelievers should be burnt as punishment. That goes for every verse, naturally one should use logic in interpreting verses, (something Al-Qaeda missed out on) but nonetheless, whose going to stop them if they have the power? Likewise in this situation, I could quote something like the Quran 2:62 "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." So in my mind they shouldn't be punished if they're Christian, but the guys in Afghanistan obviously see that differently.

[Halloween-9]

I dont see how you can just sit here and bash Islam, for what a few radicals do. The Koran doesnt say that he should die for abandoning it any more than the bible says we should blow ourselves up. Just because a few radicals do something doesnt mean that the vast majority of Islamics arent upstanding citzens.

[fahrenheit]

At 3/19/06 11:22 PM, Elfer wrote: people from the US have a tendency to say "mind your own business we run our country how we want"

A lot of people are against the death penalty in the united states, infact a few states have abolished it and more are going to.

Its not like since something is majority everyone in the entire country agrees with it.

[sweede]

I don't see whats so weird.
In afghanistan they still live in the medievals and in medieval europe jews where followed and executed for their religion.
This kind of religous intolerance led to the crusades.
It wasn't until the 20:th that true freedom of religion was created anywhere in the world.......

[Mr-Mystezi]

hey...let be more mature...if people want to convert let them be!!

[HighlyIllogical]

At 3/19/06 11:25 PM, Maus wrote:

As far as the ignorant Dark Ages comment, do you know what cultures PRESERVED most of the learning that was lost during that time? Yeah.

The Arabs preserved most of the Greco-Roman learning. But it didn't get back to Europe by itself...*cough* guess who brought it back *cough*

[TheShrike]

At 3/19/06 11:49 PM, Monocrom wrote: Even in this insane world, some things are still Black & White, Right & Wrong. Sometimes, it's not about cultural differences. (Hell, I was born into Communist Russia. They tried to make me hate America; they failed). While I live in America, I do retain a lot of Old-World, Eastern European beliefs. East and West both tell me that executing someone for converting is just plain wrong!

And that isn't what we're disputing. I don't think Maus is siding with them, and I know I am not.

The situation sucks, but It isn't likely to change because of some people whining about it on some internet forum.

.......... Also, I never said we should use force to oppose what's happening to this individual. But there's nothing wrong with bringing a bit of political pressure to bear. Let it be known that the world is watching. Hell, if the judge or the prosecutor are made aware of the fact that the rest of the world will look at them as blood-thirsty lunatics, they MIGHT be a bit less willing to execute the guy.

I doubt that. And don't depend on the U.S. to put pressure on them over this. The new government there is on shaky ground as it is. The last thing our government wants is a revolution there, and if their government went all sympathetic towards converts all the sudden, a revolution is probably what would happen.

[TheShrike]

At 3/20/06 07:13 AM, Gunnery_Sergeant wrote: The Arabs preserved most of the Greco-Roman learning. But it didn't get back to Europe by itself...*cough* guess who brought it back *cough*

And why would they want to? Europe was a truly barbaric place back then.

[HighlyIllogical]

No, but seriously. Guess who brought it back, at the invitation of the Europeans. Hint: This group of people was often used to substitute for what we'd now call the middle class because they were outside the feudal system.

[Monocrom]

At 3/20/06 09:51 AM, TheShrike wrote:

At 3/19/06 11:49 PM, Monocrom wrote: Even in this insane world, some things are still Black & White, Right & Wrong. Sometimes, it's not about cultural differences. (Hell, I was born into Communist Russia. They tried to make me hate America; they failed). While I live in America, I do retain a lot of Old-World, Eastern European beliefs. East and West both tell me that executing someone for converting is just plain wrong!

And that isn't what we're disputing. I don't think Maus is siding with them, and I know I am not.

The situation sucks, but It isn't likely to change because of some people whining about it on some internet forum.

This is one of the most thought-provoking topics that I've ever seen, on the Politics forum. I think you're confusing outrage with whining. We're not talking about some dumb-ass n00b who spammed up the forum, got banned, came back, and started posting "Why did I get banned?"............. For me, it's just outrage over the fact that that sort of $#^t is taking place at all! Realistically, that poor guy is going to get executed. And that lunatic prosecutor is going to go out celebrating over the "good" job that he did. (Makes me want to vomit).

The Bush administration CAN politically lean on the Judge or the prosecutor, if they wanted to. But realistically, they won't! I know that. Life is cheap; simple fact of Reality.

[LazyDrunk]

At 3/20/06 12:28 PM, Monocrom wrote: Life is cheap; simple fact of Reality.

Cast your lot with us or we'll kill you.

[Derestriction]

What a confused bunch o' ppl....

Makin a big fuss bout the US invadin their country n breachin their rights n freedom..

Yet allowin their freedom of religion to slip through their hands...

Use ur freedom of religion to convert and die!!!

WHERE THE HELL IS THEIR FREEDOM NOW?

At 3/19/06 11:22 PM, Elfer wrote: people from the US have a tendency to say "mind your own business we run our country how we want"
But when another country does something the US sees as unfair, inhumane punishment that doesn't fit the crime, they get up on their moral high horse and start getting all pissed off about it.

Your insane

And I thought Islam was a peaceful religion.

[fli]

At 3/19/06 11:25 PM, Maus wrote:

At 3/19/06 11:17 PM, Monocrom wrote: But you can't possibly be saying that we should just accept the fact that a person will probably be executed for converting!

Yes. I am. Not everyone lives in a westernised culture. YOU may think our culture is all pretty and civilised, but it doesn't work for them. Try to understand that PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.

As far as the ignorant Dark Ages comment, do you know what cultures PRESERVED most of the learning that was lost during that time? Yeah.

Maus, you pointed out something that I've always believed in.
And it seems so many Americans have a problem with this, especially when it comes to stuff about Communism, Dictatorships, way of life, etc.

I never supported a Democracy in Palistine because it seemed the people didn't want it. I believe that imposing a Democracy is the most un-democratic thing we can do. Look what happened with Hamas. Here, we have an ethno-centric president who keeps saying Hamas is a evil and blah blah and that people should be able to have a Democracy to choose. The people voted. And what happened? Hamas won. LOLirony--

The only thing we could and should do is help out those who wants to escape. In matters of genocide and other stuff like that, that's when we should pull out our guns.

If the people in that part of the Muslim world wants to change, but their government is unwilling-- that's when we should do something. But if they created laws that they're happy with, then we should but out.

San Jose has a measurable Muslim population, with several Muslim-Americans. It's amazing. Although Bush and Co. have criticized how Muslims treat their women by forcing them to wear Hijabs and etc-- Many Muslim American women, who live pretty liberally, choose to wear their Hijabs.

And ultimately, this is the ideal that should exist in the world. "Live and let live."

[Maus]

If you truly feel that they should not do the things they do:

Go to them, and change their minds. I'm being deadly serious. Sitting around and blustering about the awfulness of it all doesn't change a thing.

Join the Peace Corps.
Become an ambassador.
Live with them to try and better understand their perspective, and the why of how it works.
Or something.

One of the most difficult things for people (individually, and culturally) to understand is that what is acceptable and makes perfect sense to them is utterly insane and maybe even reprehensible to others.

[Memorize]

By their logic, we should be able to go over there and execute every last Islamic person.

Personally, if they carried away with executing the guy, i would make every moment for them like it was hell, but that's just me.

[AtomicTerrorist]

i believe this also happens in saudi arabia. You cannot where a cross or state that you are chatholic without going to jail. Not completely sure about that ( im from lebenon) but iv heard people i know say that

[HighlyIllogical]

At 3/20/06 05:54 PM, fli wrote: Many Muslim American women, who live pretty liberally, choose to wear their Hijabs.

In French public schools, it's illegal to wear a hijab or religious garment. So much for liberty, egality and fraternity.