Hiroshima

[Angryjeff]

Could it have been avoided?? Honestly i think the US did a smart thing, not a moral thing but it was the quickest way to end a bloody war that was jsut going to get bloodier. Now some people say they could have dropped it on a smaller target but then japan would think they don't have the balls to really use it.

[TheloniousMONK]

It COULD have been avoided, but personally I feel it needed to be done. There wouldn't be as much hype about using nuclear weapons if the full destructive power hadn't been displayed at Hiroshima. However, at the same time, it inspires many terrorists.

[makedecisionMOVEON]

the purpose of why US bombs hiroshima and nagashima, which is their small trading port cities rather the capitol, Tokyo is to want japan to stop the war and also heh, heh, heh, ask them to pay all the allies' (US, Soviet Union and Britian) losses.

if US bomb Tokyo, the japs will never ever able to pay up all the losses and America will never wants to invest any time or money on the rotten Japan.

NOTE:- the purpose of War is pretty simple.
WINNERS TAKES ALL,
LOSER PAYS ALL.

[mulder-xuk]

i just hope that those type of bombs never get used ever again

[HernetheHunter]

Japan is a pretty controlling force in the US. Their highly overpriced anime junk is on VHS and DVD, not to mention slapped onto toys, shirts, video games, etc, etc......except for X-Box, nearly all the video games, game systems, game accessories, etc. that we buy are all from Japan. Sony, the electronic giant, is Japanese, as are many other electronics companies. Hondas, Toyotas, and many other Japanese cars are on our roads. Some years back, WE apologized to THEM about bombing them in WWII, when they attacked us at Pearl Harbor and slaughtered their prisoners-of-war, among other things. So let me ask you something.........who really won the war?

[WolfSoldier]

I believe that Japan would have never given up they felt that they were the supreme race as the Nazis had also believed. All of their allies could have fallen and they would have still pushed on I guess. And I recently just watched something on the History Channel about the only alternative....hehe...The US would have made an even larger invasion than Normandy and had even more casualties then the 2 bombs dropped in Japan. It was morally wrong but had to be done it saved more lives in my opinion

[TheEvilOne]

As horrible as the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, an invasion of Japan would probably have resulted in an even greater loss of life. Large numbers of American and Japanese troops, as well as Japanese civilians, would have died. Japanese culture was one that did not believe in surrender--either you won, or you died. Period. It would have been a long, bloody struggle, which may or may not have been successful.

[nathan1313us]

great idea and should be done again in north korea. nothing better than putting the fear back in the world

[TheShrike]

When we dropped the bomb, it was to do 2 things:
1)End the greatest war in history and come out victorious.
2)Send a message to the rest of the world. (Don't fuck with us)

It had to be done. It was terrible that it happened, but Japan was way out of control, and would have ravaged every Pacific nation that opposed them. We warned them to stop, and they did not listen. Not many people realize this, but we actually killed more people in the firebombing of Tokyo than in Nagasaki And Hiroshima combined...
It's simple. We made a display of our power, and gave the warning that Tokyo was next. End of Story.

And as to Japan's present economic prowress? Does anyone read the newspapers? Their economy is worse than ours right now. Forget about all the money they make from electronics, cars, and anime and the power that has over us. Many Americans still won't buy Japanese cars, they remember things like the fact that Mitsubishi produced the Zero, kamikazi aircraft of choice. Did you forget that almost every car you see on the street is American? Seriously. Look out your window. Count the number of cars passing by.
And video games? Intel pulls more money in than Nintendo, and Sony makes more money from MUSIC, and Sega folded it's hand in the console market, largely due to Microsoft's entrance. Think about the fact that the original Sony Playstation only had a resolution of 320x240. [someone correct me if I'm wrong there] [oh, and only if you can prove it.] How large was your computer's screen resolution at the same time? CPU clock speed?
And Anime? Face the facts: it's still a 'niche' market here, even though it's growing. They sell waaaaay more anime to a larger crowd in a smaller country over there.

We produce everything they produce , and in larger quantities. Japan's economic crisis may affect the entire asian market, but if America slips, EVERYONE feels the pinch- especially Japan. They need Christmas as much as we do.

So? We won the war. And Japan gets critisizm for being "America's little brother" from time to time.

[Bizud]

First of all, it is maybe, MAYBE possible to justify bombing Hiroshima. MAYBE. It is virtually impossible to justify bombing Nagasaki. That was simply gratuitous and unnecessary.

Second, they could have simply said "we have this big bomb. We WILL use it." Failing that, they might have picked a smaller, MILITARY target. Killing civilians is inexcusable.

Morality is what counts, in the end. That several hundred thousand people died in the attack cannot be outweighed. It was wrong, pure and simple. Saying that it had to be done implies that the ends justify the means, and they don't (Obviously. If they do, then let's wipe out the US right now, they're certainly doing the world more harm than good).

Finally, Japan had little choice (from a militaristic point of view) but to attack the US. They had installed economic blockades and trade embargoes simply because Hirohito had allied himself with Hitler. The Japanese would have been economically starved had they not done something.

[WolfSoldier]

You know....we did warn them...several times that we weren't fooling around and besides if we hadn't done it we wouldn't have the all power 'respect my authorita' image we have today

[Bizud]

You're honestly telling me you think military force is something to look up to? You're even dumber than I thought.

[swayside]

At 1/16/03 05:59 AM, Bizud wrote: You're honestly telling me you think military force is something to look up to? You're even dumber than I thought.

you are an idiot. of course we need a great military force. do you know why te swiss can stay nuetral all the time? it's because of their great military. we have one of the most contravercial societies in the world, capitalism. we have to protect it from extremists, not just when it's a group of hundreds, but also when there's a nation bent on our destruction.

[Bizud]

Military might and defending yourself are not the same thing. Every nation should be able to defend itself, but when they start using their might to control things outside their borders, then it becomes a problem. There's also a reasonable limit. The US spends a relatively HUGE amount of money on "defense," MUCH more than Britain, Germany, France, Russia, or Austria (the other historic "big powers.") Austria isn't even a middle power anymore. They've totally taken a back seat and given up imperialism, and their society certainly isn't any worse off for it.

Think about this: even if "the economy" of the US is better than, say, Britain's, is the quality of the average citizen's life any better? This is the real way to measure economic prosperity, at least in my eyes. And, I'm just realizing that this paragraph is completely fucking off topic...whoops.

And, if the US cut defense spending in half, they would still be "untouchable," (they have about 5 times the military might of Britain, the closest match) and could actually support things like medicare.

[HarryFeltersnach]

At 1/14/03 02:47 AM, Angryjeff wrote: Could it have been avoided?? Honestly i think the US did a smart thing, not a moral thing but it was the quickest way to end a bloody war that was jsut going to get bloodier. Now some people say they could have dropped it on a smaller target but then japan would think they don't have the balls to really use it.

it was 60 fuckin years ago dude.....let it go

[Speechless]

It could and should have been avoided. Thats it.

[Slizor]

you are an idiot. of course we need a great military force. do you know why te swiss can stay nuetral all the time? it's because of their great military.

Actually they can stay neutral all the time because they stay neutral all the time. They are trusted.

we have one of the most contravercial societies in the world, capitalism.

Urm, I'm sorry to break it to you, but your entire society is not "capitalism." And Capitalism is not only limited to your country.

we have to protect it from extremists, not just when it's a group of hundreds, but also when there's a nation bent on our destruction.

So you need to spend trillions of dollars on it?! The "it" of course refering to the Orwellian term "defence".

Y'know, if you spent $28 million every day since the birth of Christ you still would have spent less than the US has over the past 50 years.

[patton55]

Had the US not bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki and instead invaded the homelands, experts predicted that American loss of life would reach 1,000,000 on the home island alone. it was a wise thing Truman did in dropping the bomb in regards to American lives.

[TheArcherOfAchtar]

It is pretty funny how Americans dont know too much about their own history. The people who have replied to this thread havent even touched on a major factor in it. Although "allied" with Russia in the war in Europe, fundamentaly The russians and americans were worlds apart, Russia was about to enter the war against Japan at this stage, thus being closer and having vast amounts of resources could of defeated them. We all know how russians didnt mind throwing away soldiers during the war, thus giving the Russians(who were close to getting the bomb aswell) a communist foothold in the Pacific. Truman dropped the bomb not only to end the war with Japan but to tell the Russians to stay out, hence starting the cold war......

[whitedragon-my]

Not dropping the bombs would have resulted in a much longer ground war as the U.S. Russia, and the other Allied powers would have staged a storm of the Japanese islands. The casualities would have been much greater. So in order to bring a quick end to the war we dropped the bombs.

As for the whole "We shoulda warned um" crap. WE DID! The U.S. specificaly told Japan that we had a weapon of mass destruction, the day before the strikes planes flew overhead dropping pamplets warning the civilians to evacuate. You know what? THEY DIDN'T LISTEN. So we had no choice but to drop the bombs.

[TheShrike]

At 1/16/03 11:46 PM, TheArcherOfAchtar wrote: Russia was about to enter the war against Japan at this stage, thus being closer and having vast amounts of resources could of defeated them. We all know how russians didnt mind throwing away soldiers during the war, thus giving the Russians(who were close to getting the bomb aswell) a communist foothold in the Pacific. Truman dropped the bomb not only to end the war with Japan but to tell the Russians to stay out, hence starting the cold war......

And you think letting the russians take care of it would have been BETTER? AHEM EAST GERMANY???

When it comes down to it, it HAD to be done.
It was TOTALY UNAVOIDABLE.
There was NO OTHER CHOICE.

We if we could have done it to Germany, we would have. Why? Because it was war. WAR IS HELL. You win or you lose or you keep fighting forever. No other way around it.

So, why use the most powerful destructive force man has ever created? Beacuse, without having done so, we would have killed MANY MORE JAPANESE, and MANY MORE AMERICANS wouldn't have come home.

Asking whether or not it could have been avoided is stupid. Sure, we could have decided not to use the bomb, and then driven our economy and their population into the ground.
The only way it could have been avoided was if it were NEVER INVENTED. Any sane person would have seen why it should be used.
A)It would end the war not months, But (I believe) YEARS ahead of time.
B)Significantly reduce the number of casualties on both sides.
C)Shown the world why it SHOULDN'T BE USED AGAIN.
D)Would have kept Russia from ruining Japanese culture.

Gen. MacArther (spelling?) only occupied Japan after the Emperor told his people they were to immeadiately surrender and cooperate. He waited, he didn't just barge in. During the occupation, he took great pains to leave the Japanese culture and society intact. Can anyone say EAST GERMANY? We helped rebuild Japan. The russians would have used it as another means of spreading their brand of communism. Can anyone say EAST GERMANY? BERLIN WALL? Damn right there Truman was influenced by the fact that russia would've stepped in, did you forget that STALIN was in control of russia at the time?

We dropped the bomb. Because we had to.
And the world IS a better place because of it.

[Stormwarden]

Ironically,dropping the A-bomb actually saved hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides, and reduced the length of the war significantly.

The alternative would have been to fight a ground war that would have been costly for both the US and Japan. Also, do remember who helped them rebuild afterwards.