Forum Topic: Education in the USA

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timgr

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Posted at: 2/26/06 03:40 PM

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Many people tell me that students in US schools dont learn enough or as much as people in europe. I've heard that they dont learn much about world geography, but only american, only american history and not world history. I've never lived in america so i dont really know. Please express your opinion if you really know about it, i'd really like to find out about what u learn in the USA.


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Papa-Smuff

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Posted at: 2/26/06 03:59 PM

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At 2/26/06 03:40 PM, timgr wrote: Many people tell me that students in US schools dont learn enough or as much as people in europe. I've heard that they dont learn much about world geography, but only american, only american history and not world history. I've never lived in america so i dont really know. Please express your opinion if you really know about it, i'd really like to find out about what u learn in the USA.

Well we are taught all these thing its just all lot of people over here dont really care and or just dont do very well. We are also required to take a world history class along with US history class. We usually get the geography stuff in world history. Then we also have to take civics to kind of learn about our government. I personally am taking comparative government to learn about other countries governments.


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fahrenheit

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Posted at: 2/26/06 03:59 PM

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Considering for the past semester (5 months) I have been learning about japanese, hispanic, and middle eastern history I would say we learn a bit more than just our own history.

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themagicalpig

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Posted at: 2/26/06 04:47 PM

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At 2/26/06 03:40 PM, timgr wrote: Many people tell me that students in US schools dont learn enough or as much as people in europe. I've heard that they dont learn much about world geography, but only american, only american history and not world history. I've never lived in america so i dont really know. Please express your opinion if you really know about it, i'd really like to find out about what u learn in the USA.

Yeah, when i lived overseas everyone used to assume I was dumb and under educated because i had attendted public schools in the US all my life. I have no clue why non-Americans are always bashing the US public education system. Sure when i was in school i mostly learned about US history, but why not? I live here so its important to know where i came from. People of other countries learn the exact same. All kids here have to learn World History and geography(normally) also though but ofcourse its not going to be our main focus of study. I hated how people called me dumb and uneducated because i couldn't name every Indian state off the top of my head. A Spanish girl got upset with me for not knowing more than 2 languages and not knowing exactly where in Spain the little city she was from is. Many of them knew nothing about US history and have never even heart of Arkansas so there isn't really any reason to get upset at out education system. I fully support students learning more about the country they live in than countries they don't live in.


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evilstrawberry

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Posted at: 2/26/06 04:50 PM

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USA does give a pretty good education, but Europe hs the best on Earth.


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Bolo

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Posted at: 2/26/06 05:10 PM

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The kids in the US really dont learn as much as other countries, mostly because of standardized testing, which gives broad overviews of generalized topics, rather than speicalized to meet a student's individual needs. The US government wants to portray a feeling of "reform" for the educational system because it really hasn't actually made much progress in the last 50 years. YOU CAN READ MY THREAD ABOUT STANDARDIZED TESTING WHERE I POSTED AN ESSAY I RECENTLY WROTE ON THIS TOPIC. LABELED "STANDARDIZED TESTING".

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Trendwhore

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Posted at: 2/26/06 05:16 PM

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Everyone knows that americans are uneducated smacktards.


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MoralLibertarian

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Posted at: 2/26/06 05:59 PM

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At 2/26/06 05:16 PM, TrendWhore wrote: Everyone knows that americans are uneducated smacktards.

The capitalist government desires to make every American a cog in a machine so it can continue to exploit the masses through it's immoral profit making devices. In this sense, the US is no different from any other Democracy in Europe. We look to the state to provide for us education, but it is only education of their system.

My proposal is to completely abolish all forms of public school and provide "workers education" to the proletariat. Unlike most private schools, the aim will not be to make a profit: only to sustain itself. Therefore it will be affordable. And unlike public schools, it will focus on only the most important basics, like the innumerable failures of capitalism and classical Marxist theory. It's okay if some children cannot afford education: they will grow up to be ignorant workers, and generally an ignorant worker is already an angry worker. Only when the capitalists are overthrown can we trust public funding to teach out children the values of socialism and Marxist theory correctly.


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Ramnath

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Posted at: 2/26/06 06:17 PM

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Why would you listen to a foreigners who know nothing about life in the U.S. tell you how good or bad our education system is? Education is what you make it. You can't just rely on your public school education to give you knowledge for everything. Read books on history, geography, math, etc.


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mjairlax

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Posted at: 2/26/06 06:51 PM

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Mostly American education is simple and very easy. It all depends on the teacher you have. Like in my school in Social studies there is this teacher that is very easy and lets you get by with everything. Then there's my teacher who's test are a 100 questions long and gives an essay the day after the test


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sdhonda

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Posted at: 2/26/06 09:03 PM

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At 2/26/06 06:51 PM, mjairlax wrote: Mostly American education is simple and very easy. It all depends on the teacher you have. Like in my school in Social studies there is this teacher that is very easy and lets you get by with everything. Then there's my teacher who's test are a 100 questions long and gives an essay the day after the test

100 questions long? Unless they were all essay questions and/or you had short time, thats not hard. But like said, its what you make of it I geuss......

I live in canada. We dont have as much standardization as the US, though some. Anywho, it depends on the teacher like said.


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Shadic-1

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Posted at: 2/26/06 09:37 PM

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THose Europeans can go fuck themselves. THey are a bunch of worthless homosexual loving commies living in their little socialist utopias. WHy learn about all their failed attempts at society? Everyone knows america is the ONLY utopiatarian society. They can learn the useless information they need to attempt to function in their flawed societies, while we concentrate on the important areas of learning so that we may all prosper and live the american dream. And why waste all that money on school funding? A country is worthless if we can be invaded by anyone, that money needs to go to the national defense program so we can't be invaded by the axis of evil.


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3lemant

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Posted at: 2/27/06 12:25 AM

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Yes, Im in america, you do learn about WW1 and WW2 and Vietnam, but they dont tell you everything. They didnt tell us about the concentration camps that US made for all the Japanese, and they didnt tell us that some of the Japanese starved, and they didnt tell us mostly anything about Vietnam becuase it was grotesque, they mostly taught us, it was a war and how it was started and how it ended.


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MoralLibertarian

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Posted at: 2/27/06 12:31 AM

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At 2/27/06 12:25 AM, 3lemant wrote: Yes, Im in america, you do learn about WW1 and WW2 and Vietnam, but they dont tell you everything. They didnt tell us about the concentration camps that US made for all the Japanese

You must have gone to a retarded public school.

and they didnt tell us that some of the Japanese starved

it didn't happen. I mean, maybe a couple did, but the Japan were actually treated very well and could even leave if they wanted for college and or work.

and they didnt tell us mostly anything about Vietnam becuase it was grotesque, they mostly taught us, it was a war and how it was started and how it ended.

This I don't understand. Blood and guts and gore goes with all wars, the only really relevant info from a historical perspective is the circumstances, decisive battles, and perhaps public opinion.


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Gunter45

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Posted at: 2/27/06 12:33 AM

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At 2/27/06 12:25 AM, 3lemant wrote: Yes, Im in america, you do learn about WW1 and WW2 and Vietnam, but they dont tell you everything. They didnt tell us about the concentration camps that US made for all the Japanese, and they didnt tell us that some of the Japanese starved, and they didnt tell us mostly anything about Vietnam becuase it was grotesque, they mostly taught us, it was a war and how it was started and how it ended.

You went to a crappy school. Geez, I never would have guessed. In my high school, we learned about the internment camps that the Japanese-Americans were placed in. We also learned about the My Lai massacre and the village naping. And no, it wasn't a war, it was a conflict based off the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

Jesus Christ, you need to come back when you stop being such a dumbass.

Think you're pretty clever...

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Demosthenez

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Posted at: 2/27/06 12:38 AM

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People think we are stupid because lots of foreigners talk about it and they talk about it among themselves whenever so much they come to think it is true. It takes on a life of its own and becomes as good as fact to most foreigners. I mean, many countries in Europe and the world may have better educations than us, but that is not to say they are SO much better than us that if you took an average American and an average Frenchie of equal age and compared them the Frenchie would look completly dominant.

Ive met some pretty uptight and self impressed Europeans. As a rule of thumb, I find many of them who come here with preconcieved notions of American stupidity are usually the stupidest themselves.

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Rekkor

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Posted at: 2/27/06 12:57 AM

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The American education system is up to par in the wide view of things but is unfortunately declining at an alarming pace. Having attended American schools and also having several realitives who teach in public high schools in America, I can say that there is one large growing flaw.

The Standardized Test

This is simply because instead of getting a full spectrum of the material you now learn what you need to know to pass the test. EVEN worse the new "No Child Left Behind" Law says that in a few years it will be the American standard that all students pass the state tests 100 percent of the time.

Or Else they get their budget cut.

So instead of helping struggling schools by giving them more money, we are taking away from the needy schools and giving money to schools who do suceed.

This may seem good on paper but all it will lead to is "teaching to the test" and lowering of standards so that all students regarless of their skill level will be able to pass.

In my own opinion however I see this as a big plot to eventually close public schools but thats for a rainy day and another topic board.


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SevenSeize

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Posted at: 2/27/06 01:04 AM

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Just to add a bit of info. A few years ago, something called the comprehensive curriculum was written. It's a day by day plan of what students should be learning. They are trying to implement it nation wide, but some states are just now joining. This will basically prevent teachers from writing lesson plans. The goal is to get every child in the nation on the same page. Unfortunately, this is a bit unrealistic, and many will be left behind. Someone mentioned standardized testing. Here's a fun fact. The people who write standardized tests (such as the Graduation Exit Exam) are the same people who own a textbook company that produces very expensive textbooks. If your school district can afford the books, then you'll do fine on your test. If your in the boat with everyone else and you have normal books, the tests will be a bit more difficult. Lastly, When textbooks are produced, most of the time there are 3 editions: Texas, California, and regular. Texas and California are the most populous, with the most votes and the most money. They get special books, full of extra activities and test help. Everyone else gets a regular book. I start teaching next year, in a poor state, so my work is cut out for me.


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darkfiretime1

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Posted at: 2/27/06 01:23 AM

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What most people like Moral Libertarian fail to realize every day of their life is its not the system of government that is failing the people. It is the politicians, the people that are working the system. Turning this country into a communist country isnt going to help our education system at all.

"The capitalist government desires to make every American a cog in a machine so it can continue to exploit the masses through it's immoral profit making devices."

Just as every other form of government does. No government form is pure. Dont give me this crock of bullshit about the Marxist theory.

"The proletariat is that class of society which does not have ownership of the means of production."

Heres what a Marxist state does with education:
1. It reproduces the inequalities and social relations of production of Capitalist Society.
2. It serves to legitimate these inequalities under the guise of Meritocracy.

Its the same god damn thing as any other government.

"According to Marxism, capitalism is a system based on the exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie (the "capitalists", who own and control the means of production). This exploitation takes place as follows: the workers, who own no means of production of their own, must seek employment in order to make a living. They get hired by a capitalist and work for him, producing some sort of goods or services. These goods or services then become the property of the capitalist, who sells them and gets a certain amount of money in exchange. One part of the wealth produced is used to pay the workers' wages, while the other part (surplus value) is split between the capitalist's private takings (profit), and the money used to pay rent, buy supplies and renew the forces of production. Thus the capitalist can earn money (profit) from the work of his employees without actually doing any work, or in excess of his own work. Marxists argue that new wealth is created through work; therefore, if someone gains wealth that he did not work for, then someone else works and does not receive the full wealth created by his work. In other words, that "someone else" is exploited. Thus, Marxists argue that capitalists make a profit by exploiting workers."

Any United States citizen that has the willpower can rise and make money. Any american. My oldest brother is a classic example. He was a high school dropout, and was working at minimum wage. He got into a job with Heidelburg printers, and eventually split off to make his own company. He treats his empoyees well, which numbers in about 6 or so. Everyone exploits the worker class, dont kid yourself. A Marxist government would do the same thing.

"like the innumerable failures of capitalism and classical Marxist theory."

Your wrong. Capatilism did not fail. Our politicians tore it apart, and installing the "classical Marxist theory" would do far more harm than good in this country.

You really think that a government working under the Marxist theory would actually sustain itself? Are you ignoring the Soviet Union perhaps?

Heres what happens under a country such as the Soviet Union:
"Relaxation of censorship under glasnost resulted in the Communist Party losing its absolute grip on the media. Before long, and much to the embarrassment of the authorities, the media began to expose severe social and economic problems the Soviet government had long denied existed and actively concealed. Problems such as poor housing, alcoholism, drug abuse, pollution, outdated Stalinist-era factories, and petty to large-scale corruption, all of which the official media had ignored, received increased attention. Media reports also exposed crimes committed by Stalin and the Soviet regime, such as Gulags and the Great Purges ignored by the official media. Moreover, the ongoing war in Afghanistan, and the mishandling of the 1986 Chernobyl accident further damaged the credibility of the Soviet government at a time when dissatisfaction was increasing."

Heres a list of some of the current Communist states:
* People's Republic of China (since 1949); Communist Party of China
* Republic of Cuba (Cuban Revolution in 1959, socialist state declared in 1961); Communist Party of Cuba
* Lao People's Democratic Republic (since 1975); Lao People's Revolutionary Party
* Democratic People's Republic of Korea (since 1948); Korean Workers' Party
* Socialist Republic of Vietnam (since 1976); Communist Party of Vietnam


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MarkyX

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Posted at: 2/27/06 08:12 AM

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At 2/26/06 03:40 PM, timgr wrote: Many people tell me that students in US schools dont learn enough or as much as people in europe. I've heard that they dont learn much about world geography, but only american, only american history and not world history. I've never lived in america so i dont really know. Please express your opinion if you really know about it, i'd really like to find out about what u learn in the USA.

America is not the only with this.

Canada also has only Canada history, withthe OPTION of other histories if you wish to take it.


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LegendaryLukus

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Posted at: 2/27/06 10:34 AM

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When I was in detroit, I took a world history class. This is university, and I would describe their knowledge of world history there to be average at best. When someone asks "Where is the Mediteranean?", I doubt they have a good grasp of geography.

The tests were not very challenging either. Multiple choice was a breeze comapared to the rigorous essay exams I get here.

Up the Clarets!


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SevenSeize

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Posted at: 2/27/06 11:03 AM

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At 2/27/06 10:34 AM, LegendaryLukus wrote: When I was in detroit, I took a world history class. This is university, and I would describe their knowledge of world history there to be average at best. When someone asks "Where is the Mediteranean?", I doubt they have a good grasp of geography.

The tests were not very challenging either. Multiple choice was a breeze comapared to the rigorous essay exams I get here.:

Well, in some places in America, world history is optional. You don't have to take it. Also, one problem which is being solved is teacher certification. In America, for the longest time, if you knew someone, you could teach without a degree. This is something that is slowly being eliminated. No education system is perfect. We need to learn from each other and stop bashing someone just because they come from a particular place on earth. And I agree, a highschooler who has no idea where the Mediterranean is located certainly needs better education.


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LegendaryLukus

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Posted at: 2/27/06 11:13 AM

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At 2/27/06 11:03 AM, Zenobia wrote: Well, in some places in America, world history is optional. You don't have to take it. Also, one problem which is being solved is teacher certification. In America, for the longest time, if you knew someone, you could teach without a degree. This is something that is slowly being eliminated. No education system is perfect. We need to learn from each other and stop bashing someone just because they come from a particular place on earth. And I agree, a highschooler who has no idea where the Mediterranean is located certainly needs better education.

I must admit one thing I did like about the American system was the ability to choose what you could learn. Im not sure if this only applies to uni's in the US, but over here we always have a set cirriculum, with little or no choice.

I have a friend who is a law student who was doing political science, a language and hells yeah fencing.

More choice is a good thing

Up the Clarets!


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Demosthenez

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Posted at: 2/27/06 11:27 AM

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At 2/27/06 10:34 AM, LegendaryLukus wrote: When I was in detroit, I took a world history class. This is university, and I would describe their knowledge of world history there to be average at best.

No one gives a crap about history here for the most part. And a lot of the people who hate history also have no quantitative skills either. So God knows what the hell those kids will do with themselves.

Well I wasn't down,
I just wasn't smiling at you, yeah. . .
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Denta

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Posted at: 2/27/06 03:30 PM

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In Sweden we have education for free. :D

But this is able due to the lack of military defence, uncompitent police and to low punishment for crimes, even hardcore crimes like murders, sexual usage of minors and so on :(


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Papa-Smuff

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Posted at: 2/27/06 04:03 PM

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Our education is free to


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Stik-it-2-da-Gramma

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Posted at: 2/28/06 05:38 PM

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The educational sistem is just corupt,that's all.

Education in the USA


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HolyDonut

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Posted at: 2/28/06 05:43 PM

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At 2/26/06 09:37 PM, -Shadic- wrote: THose Europeans can go fuck themselves. THey are a bunch of worthless homosexual loving commies living in their little socialist utopias. WHy learn about all their failed attempts at society? Everyone knows america is the ONLY utopiatarian society. They can learn the useless information they need to attempt to function in their flawed societies, while we concentrate on the important areas of learning so that we may all prosper and live the american dream. And why waste all that money on school funding? A country is worthless if we can be invaded by anyone, that money needs to go to the national defense program so we can't be invaded by the axis of evil.

I am not a communist and if you actually took the damn time to open your eyes and ears yuo would see we don't like Communism either! The axis of evil doesnt exist! And according to you, the only thing that matters is a nation's army! I hope that not all Americans are like you, or the rest of the world is in serious trouble. The american dream? How many people actually achieve that? At least here in the UK kids dont die on the street because their parents can't afford healthcare. That's right! We have FREE hospitals. While America might have it's strong points, we have ours too.


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pt9-9

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Posted at: 2/28/06 06:12 PM

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To darkfiretime1,

"Heres what happens under a country such as the Soviet Union:"
You absoulutly right, it is politicans that work the sytsem, not the common citizen, and that's where many communist countries fail. As well as capitalist.

To me, Communism, or Marxism rather, is truly a international reconstrruction of government programme, not a single nation's standpoint. You cannot say that capitalism is equivalent to socialism in any way, because Capitalism has proven to abuse laborers. It (communism) involves taking away political borders, and reunifying the world to a more human-friendly society.

Any United States citizen that has the willpower can rise and make money.
Exacty. but where's the willpower? Of course, your brother must be exceptionally smart. But 95% of the people with an education are better off financially then those who aren't (in this case, the proletariat). It's not like you can shove education into someone. And by the way, America is on of the rare exceptions, your brother would probably not be as fortunate if he wasn't under the American System

Capitalism has created only more rich people and more poor people, and money has never equalled happiness. In amerca's system, as well as many other countries, i can only see a few things that are made with purity; social security and the tax system, which both run under communistic principals(the common people giving proportional debts to help advance and please). However, the amoutn of payment from the rich and the poor can be bias because of certain tendencies, but that is the result of capitalism.

"Your wrong. Capatilism did not fail. Our politicians tore it apart, and installing the "classical Marxist theory" would do far more harm than good in this country."

http://www.behindthe../pdf/Retailindus.pdf

Sweatshops aren't created by politicians, they are created by retailers who care more about money than the wellfare of citizens. This is why political borders must be thrown away, because many bussiness men/ bourgeoisie think that it's okay to have these implemented.

marxism provides things such as a tax system (don't get on be about the how much a pain taxes are because the are for the greater good)

Capitalism has provided unhealthy competition, and the Amercian System is an imperfect one, due to it's mixed ideologies of communism and capitalism, with greater influence of free enterprise, however. It's not about money.

And another thing. Communism involves a market economy, not a command one. Just in case you start talking about how the Soviet Union do any of the things that I said were communist.

No country is communist, because everyone is involved in the international market.

I like MoralLibertarian. He makes good points. = )

......hetero......


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MortifiedPenguins

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Posted at: 2/28/06 06:18 PM

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My Education in Massachusetts is fine

Massachusetts is known for having one of the best public school systems in the nation. It has one of the lowest high-school dropout rates in the nation and is tied with New Jersey for having the 2nd highest percentage of students who go on to college after high-school. It is also one of the highest-scoring states on advanced placement tests. In 2004, Massachusetts' high school students ranked 1st in the nation for test scores relating to the fields of math and science.

http://en.wikipedia...setts#Public_schools

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