At 2/27/06 11:10 AM, MoralLibertarian wrote:
At 2/27/06 10:39 AM, afliXion wrote:
cAt 2/26/06 02:46 AM, MoralLibertarian wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, there is no direct language in the Bible condemning abortion.
Yea... cause abortion was such a huge problem 2000+ years ago....
According to your understanding of God, God is omnipotent, which means that if he really thought that abortion was a moral wrong that our generation would have to face he would have put it in the Law then. It's not there, so we can draw the following conclusions: 1) God is shortsighted and a dolt 2) Abortion is not wrong under God's law since he never explicitly mentions it or 3) Religion is a farce, and you're gay.
Don't act like you know anything about my 'understanding' of God.
One of the 10 commandments is thou shalt not kill. Its already in the law my friend.
The fact you say the exac word 'abortion' is not in the Bible is proof that the Bible is silent on it, only shows how superficially you read the Bible. For some reason it incomprehensible to you that historicity culture and context are vital parts of reading the Bible. Your really making yourself look bad.
Misarriage and abortion are not the same thing. >_<
It's still the death of a fetus. This portion of the scripture is telling in the sense that God does not equate a developing fetus with an independent person's life.
Blatant hypocracy. Miscarriage and abortion are very different things and you know. Yet you are saying 'o its still the death of a fetus.' Yet you blast me and the bible for not using 'exact' language. This hypocracy makes it painfully obvious you don't care what the Bible says, your just trying to undermine it as a way to prove your own point.
I could get into the Constitutional issues with you, but I don't see the point. We are debating the morality of abortion, and so far you've not proven that its wrong under your own scripture.
Psalm 139:13–16: "You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous--and how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born." I guess they just forgot about this one.... Cause it couldn't be that they just left out any verse talking about life before birth.... (lewl)
What does that have to do with abortion? I don't hear anything about the Lord guarding him from the evils of coat-hangers or whatever. Also, it doesn't say that he had conscious thought as a fetus, so you're wrong.
Why can't you see whats right infront of you? According to that verse a 'fetus' is a wonderfully complex organism, that shows God's awesome workmanship. All you could do now is say "Oh the Bible never says its wrong to kill God's creation." But I hope even you won't stoop that low. (Cause the Bible does say that, lol)
You don't hear anything about the Lord gaurding him..... Well ml you need to read alittle closer next time. "You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb."
Here's another quote from them. "Read the Scripture in the original Hebrew Read the New Testament in Greek or Aramaic.."
Notice that the unborn children in Rebekahs are called children. The Hebrew word used for children here is 'banim.' This word, here and in most other passages it is used, refers to children after birth, and often has a more specific meaning for sons.
So? They may have been children to Rebekah, but to some woman who isn't prepared for pregnancy they would just be huge liabilities.
The 'fetuses' in Rebekahs womb are referred to as living children. We finally have the direct language you asked for, and now you say 'o thats just for Rebekah not another woman." Why do you think you are immune to your own arguments? If you want the Bible to use direct language, (which it obviously does here) then you do to. Hypocrite.
A similar thing happens in the New Testament in Luke 1:41.
"At the sound of Mary's greeting, Elizabeth's child leaped within her, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."
Big deal. Fetuses kick their mom's stomach sometimes. That doesnt' mean that the woman doesn't have the inalieable right to abort her fetus up to the first 8 months and 29 days of pregnancy.
Now you are completely off the mark with the topic you started. These verse I have quoted are absolute proof that the 'fetuses' have life. If not, please explain to me why the words used in Hebrew and Greek are for living children. The Bible is extremely clear, there is life in the unborn children, and to take an innocent life is expressly forbidden.
Your just pulling stuff out of your ass now. Where does she get the 'inalieable right' to an abortion? The Bible? The constitution? Keep dreaming. Like I said, its not about proof or evidence, its only about the individual feelings. (you conviently left that part out in your response I noticed)
Moral Libertarian, I ask that next time you find a source that atleast attempts to understand the Bible, instead of one that just quotes irrelevant passage to deceitfuly make it look like the have proven there point.
And I would ask you not to be such a Bible-thumping religious wacko. And also start listening to people's arguments rather than just responding so you can hear yourself talk. And besides, it's not irrelevant. A man who kills a fetus does not receive death for killing it, why should a woman?
So you have the right to call use conservatives 'strict construction'hypocrites, make false accusations against the Bible, but when someone prooves you don't know what your talking about, there a religious wacko. Hypocrite. Besides, aren't you the guy who said you would pray to mecca 3x a day because 'thats what being a muslim means' ?? Hypocrite.
Besides, you didn't even give your own arguments, they were all from that site.
At the end there your describing a miscarrage again. Its a huge misrepresentation from the passage your site quoted. I don't know why this is hard to understand for you. A man kills a woman, the woman dies, so does the fetus. Abortion is the direct killing of the fetus. Again you fail to live up to the standards of your own argument. Hypocrite. I expected better from you ml.