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I honestly dont know where I stand on this one

I mean on one hand, every child deserves to be born and experience life

on the other hand, people do have their personal rights and children shoudl not be born into disfunctional familys

really its hard to say

At 8/11/08 08:38 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: But no, instead you get angry and post the evidence for my claim I would have found if you had just reminded me what you wanted me to prove.

What else could I have been alluding to when I asked you for concrete, solid proof? What exactly is this topic about? What exactly did I pull out of your post earlier to discuss?

Don't play dumb with me, you know what I was asking you for. Any reasonable person reading this topic thus far knows what I was asking you for.

How original. Way to leave a debate thinking you've won. You don't post evidence after refusing to restate what you wanted me to prove and then say your opponent is weak.

The onus was on you to post evidence backing up your claim, and you failed to do so. You even went so far as to claim that your point about stress preventing conception during a rape to be clinically impossible to prove. If you jack shit about this subject you would have cited the Amenorrhea page a loooong time ago and this discussion would have ended.

How far into your major are you that you didn't know what Amenorrhea was? What ROCK are you living under that you hadn't at least heard of the concept that stress can cause a woman to have irregular periods?

At 8/11/08 09:11 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 8/11/08 08:38 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: But no, instead you get angry and post the evidence for my claim I would have found if you had just reminded me what you wanted me to prove.

What else could I have been alluding to when I asked you for concrete, solid proof? What exactly is this topic about? What exactly did I pull out of your post earlier to discuss?

This topic is about abortion, but between us it appeared to shift, in my opinion.

Don't play dumb with me, you know what I was asking you for. Any reasonable person reading this topic thus far knows what I was asking you for.

I honestly didn't know what you were asking for, I did at first when we were talking directly about abortion, but let's agree to stop here.

How original. Way to leave a debate thinking you've won. You don't post evidence after refusing to restate what you wanted me to prove and then say your opponent is weak.

The onus was on you to post evidence backing up your claim, and you failed to do so. You even went so far as to claim that your point about stress preventing conception during a rape to be clinically impossible to prove.

Please show me where I said that.

If you jack shit about this subject you would have cited the Amenorrhea page a loooong time ago and this discussion would have ended.

See my below continued reply below about my mistake in my word choice.

How far into your major are you that you didn't know what Amenorrhea was? What ROCK are you living under that you hadn't at least heard of the concept that stress can cause a woman to have irregular periods?

I'm sorry, this is my fault for not being more concise with my words. I'm currently not in my major. I SHOULD have said: I am GOING to be majoring in Psychology. I'll admit that I got confused at one point, but I did know stress had an effect on women during the menstrual cycle and the concept, just not the name of it and I'll admit that I was lazy in not looking it up as well. Through the misunderstanding I still enjoyed debating with you.

At 8/11/08 07:53 AM, Brick-top wrote: They do realize of course they'll just go somewhere else to get an abortion or...use a coat hanger.

Same with Ireland. They can go to Britain to get an abortion and the Irish can't do shit.

At 8/11/08 09:11 PM, Proteas wrote: The onus was on you to post evidence backing up your claim, and you failed to do so.

why does this sound ironic?

States rights = bad idea

Think of it: if abortion gets banned, it's not gonna stop people. People will still seek abortions, and it will be a lot more dangerous for the mother, if not just downright suicidal.

I plan to blow the lid on Abortion right now. George Carlin (RIP) once stated that Pro-Life is Anti-Woman. If that's the case, here's where it goes down. If Pro-Life is Anti-Woman, that makes Pro-Choice Pro-Woman right? That makes Pro-Choice Anti-Life. If Pro-Choice people are Anti-Life, then how about they climb into a soft fleshy Life Support Chamber and wait for a drill to rip them to shreds and a vacuum to suck them up and see how that feels? I can write this all out with Geometry and Newton's Third Law.

I also don't really get all the arguments -

"Abortion prevents overpopulation" - No. Abstinence prevents overpopulation. Don't be such a slut,

"Not having sex is against nature" - Once again, here's where I'm right. It's against nature to NOT REPRODUCE. Reproduction involves Sex, Pregnancy, and Birth. As a matter of fact, that makes Abortions against nature.

"I don't want to get pregnant" - Use a condom

"I don't trust condoms" - Let me introduce you to two words, actually a Number. 69. Every one loves oral sex. Nothing better than Fellatio and Cunnilingus than Fellatio and Cunnilingus at the same time. As a matter of fact, you don't even have to spend the time and money going through an abortion.

"It's a woman's body and she can do whatever she wants" - For all you Pro-Choice people out there, if you're parents thought about getting an abortion when you were a fetus, I don't think you'd be too happy yourself.

Personally, not being a woman, I really don't give a shit. Carlin in his routine continuously states that it's just consistency in his Pro-Choice argument.

Forgot to add . . . Pro-Choice is just as inconsistent.

At 8/12/08 12:47 PM, AznWarlord wrote:

"Abortion prevents overpopulation" - No. Abstinence prevents overpopulation. Don't be such a slut,

Lol, I guess.

"I don't want to get pregnant" - Use a condom

Tell that to the Catholic Church. Isn't it funny that we have more Catholic schoolgirl sluts than anything else?

"I don't trust condoms" - Let me introduce you to two words, actually a Number. 69. Every one loves oral sex. Nothing better than Fellatio and Cunnilingus than Fellatio and Cunnilingus at the same time. As a matter of fact, you don't even have to spend the time and money going through an abortion.

True.

"It's a woman's body and she can do whatever she wants" - For all you Pro-Choice people out there, if you're parents thought about getting an abortion when you were a fetus, I don't think you'd be too happy yourself.

But if they did abort you you wouldn't know it. Sure it makes us cringe when we think about ourselves getting aborted, but that's only because we've been taught that it would be horrible except that we wouldn't remember or know it.

At 8/12/08 01:03 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 8/12/08 12:47 PM, AznWarlord wrote:

"It's a woman's body and she can do whatever she wants" - For all you Pro-Choice people out there, if you're parents thought about getting an abortion when you were a fetus, I don't think you'd be too happy yourself.

But if they did abort you you wouldn't know it. Sure it makes us cringe when we think about ourselves getting aborted, but that's only because we've been taught that it would be horrible except that we wouldn't remember or know it.

Yeah I know all that shit, but I mean, if you think about it, it still would suck ot not live. I mean, it's not like your spirit goes into another fetus and you get born as someone else you know.

And really, just like Carlin, I'm not trying to say something, I'm just trying to be consistent. I wish he was alive right now.

Remember kids, Oral Sex is the answer.

At 8/12/08 12:47 PM, AznWarlord wrote: "I don't want to get pregnant" - Use a condom

Phew. Lucky condoms work 100% of the time, guaranteed.

At 8/13/08 04:16 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 8/12/08 12:47 PM, AznWarlord wrote: "I don't want to get pregnant" - Use a condom

Phew. Lucky condoms work 100% of the time, guaranteed.

Has the ship sailed on my timetable idea? If we allowed and subsidized first trimester abortions then we could give the woman a chance to compensate for problems with birth control, and make it so that none of the fetuses that Pro-lifers get so angry about have to be aborted.

At 8/12/08 12:47 PM, AznWarlord wrote: Personally, not being a woman, I really don't give a shit.

How obvious.

At 8/13/08 12:18 PM, Al6200 wrote:

At 8/13/08 04:16 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 8/12/08 12:47 PM, AznWarlord wrote:

Has the ship sailed on my timetable idea? If we allowed and subsidized first trimester abortions then we could give the woman a chance to compensate for problems with birth control, and make it so that none of the fetuses that Pro-lifers get so angry about have to be aborted.

I see how that could work, and agree with you for the most part. However, it still is the woman's choice in the long run anyway regardless of the scenario. But since I don't believe in "freewill," this "choice" is entirely dependant on outside factors.

At 8/13/08 04:16 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 8/12/08 12:47 PM, AznWarlord wrote: "I don't want to get pregnant" - Use a condom

Phew. Lucky condoms work 100% of the time, guaranteed.

Well they work much better then not using one.

At 2/22/06 02:04 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote: Good idea, or bad idea?

Let's all asume that we are pro-life, anti-choice whatever you want to call it. Is this ban on abortion a good idea for those who want to turn over Roe v. Wade?

Well dude, we will always have a choice, the only difference is that there will be a punishment for anyone to break that law there.
In my opinion they should invoke a cap on how many kids people can have n if they violate it then they'll get fined a shitload n maybe go to jail, thats what Japan or China did n it worked well.

In respect to all the women here I'll say that it is their choice wether or not they want to kill their child, the one creation they should hold most valuable in life, even more than their own life, they still have that choice no matter what. Now the thing that women I feel are irritated by more is the critisism and generalization they get if in the event they do abort their child or children, they get called murderers, men stay away from them, their freinds or family may stay away from them n the woman is made out to be a dangorous criminal in which in my belief they are, an unborn child even though not assumed as a human being is still apart of the woman making the abortion a sort of self mutilization or maybe even potentially an assisted suicide of another human being to be, a women has the choice to do as she pleases as do everyone else has the choice inw hich way to react to their choice.

So they say people against abortion are pro life, what are the people for abortion? They say pro choice, I say they're pro death.

The other side is the responsibility as many may have heard me talka bout on other topics, in some rare instances abortion may seem like a good choice but it never is, if a woman is raped an impregnated, two wrongs don't make a right because an abortion is as such no matter what the instance.
Lets say a teenage girl is pressured by her boyfreind to have sex n she regrettesly accepts, boom she gets pregant, is that the girls fault that she accepted, maybe the guys fault for not wearing a condom, who knows. the one thing that matters is what the girl decides to do, kill it or keep it.
Now the guy may want the girl to abort since a child would realativly end both of their young lives with all the responsibility parenthood requires, the girl may want to keep it to try and force the guy to stay with her, or maybe the guy wants her to keep it but the girl doesn't, this scenario will be resolved in one of two ways and both take a massive toll as I've explained before.

So what have we learned from all of this?
My hopes are that you have learned that abortion is bad for many reasons and that responsibility is the best policy when it comes to making choices in life, commone sense and the ability to keep in mind the rewards and consequesnces to come.

Oh, let me add something.
Some women say, "If abortion is murder, than male masterbation is murder."

Not true because male masterbation may kill off cells but they are indeed half of the repoductive cells needed to reproduce meaking the argument out for the true meaning as a desperate attempt to fend off public critisism n try to patronize a men's opinion who from women's prospective I'm sure takes the highest toll on an emotional level since ofcourse a child is half of a woman's DNA but also half a man's DNA, so see it from the perspective of a would've been father.

At 8/13/08 05:04 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Oh, let me add something.
Some women say, "If abortion is murder, than male masterbation is murder."

Not true because male masterbation may kill off cells but they are indeed half of the repoductive cells needed to reproduce

But why draw the line right at fertilization? That's an arbitrary place to start.

At 8/13/08 06:03 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 8/13/08 05:04 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Oh, let me add something.
Some women say, "If abortion is murder, than male masterbation is murder."

Not true because male masterbation may kill off cells but they are indeed half of the repoductive cells needed to reproduce

But why draw the line right at fertilization? That's an arbitrary place to start.

Becuase once the female egg is fertilized, it is now a fully fledged human cell, of it's own DNA acting upon its course of growth with great precision in creation of every body part of a human being, one cell has all the information needed for every part of your body, no telling what assigns all the specific jobs.
So yes, a fertalized egg cell is to be considered a human being therefore the abortion of the creation to many is considered murder if not worse for the ending of a life not even completely started yet.

At 8/13/08 04:56 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:

Well dude, we will always have a choice, the only difference is that there will be a punishment for anyone to break that law there.

Which doesn't make it a real choice, since the government has the right to disrupt the act or perform "stings" to catch it.

In my opinion they should invoke a cap on how many kids people can have n if they violate it then they'll get fined a shitload n maybe go to jail, thats what Japan or China did n it worked well.

China's one child policy is way more sophisticated than just slapping a fine, but it has been successful.

However the US does not have very large population growth outside of immigration, so such a measure would not be necessary.

In respect to all the women here I'll say that it is their choice wether or not they want to kill their child, the one creation they should hold most valuable in life, even more than their own life, they still have that choice no matter what. Now the thing that women I feel are irritated by more is the critisism and generalization they get if in the event they do abort their child or children, they get called murderers, men stay away from them, their freinds or family may stay away from them n the woman is made out to be a dangorous criminal in which in my belief they are, an unborn child even though not assumed as a human being is still apart of the woman making the abortion a sort of self mutilization or maybe even potentially an assisted suicide of another human being to be, a women has the choice to do as she pleases as do everyone else has the choice inw hich way to react to their choice.

A significant percentage of abortions aren't done on fetuses, they're done on undifferentiated stem cells.

So they say people against abortion are pro life, what are the people for abortion? They say pro choice, I say they're pro death.

Wait, didn't you just say that you're Pro Choice : \

The other side is the responsibility as many may have heard me talka bout on other topics, in some rare instances abortion may seem like a good choice but it never is

If the fetus doesn't have a functioning, active brain (in the first trimester) then it doesn't have an appreciable right to life. So in that case the only conflict is between the woman's

if a woman is raped an impregnated, two wrongs don't make a right because an abortion is as such no matter what the instance.

I hate to say this Shaggy but in this one instance you're right. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Lets say a teenage girl is pressured by her boyfreind to have sex n she regrettesly accepts, boom she gets pregant, is that the girls fault that she accepted, maybe the guys fault for not wearing a condom, who knows. the one thing that matters is what the girl decides to do, kill it or keep it.

She is a person, and she can, you know, say "No"...

And she can have an abortion in the first trimester.

Now the guy may want the girl to abort since a child would realativly end both of their young lives with all the responsibility parenthood requires, the girl may want to keep it to try and force the guy to stay with her, or maybe the guy wants her to keep it but the girl doesn't, this scenario will be resolved in one of two ways and both take a massive toll as I've explained before.

If she doesn't want to have a child then she can use birth control or have an abortion before the embryo becomes a fetus and the brain becomes active.

So what have we learned from all of this?
My hopes are that you have learned that abortion is bad for many reasons and that responsibility is the best policy when it comes to making choices in life, commone sense and the ability to keep in mind the rewards and consequesnces to come.

Huh?

At 8/13/08 04:56 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: In my opinion they should invoke a cap on how many kids people can have n if they violate it then they'll get fined a shitload n maybe go to jail, thats what Japan or China did n it worked well.

Japan

What? I've never heard of Japan restricting births before. In fact, their population is in decline - they need more births to maintain their economy.

At 8/14/08 09:11 AM, dySWN wrote:

At 8/13/08 04:56 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: In my opinion they should invoke a cap on how many kids people can have n if they violate it then they'll get fined a shitload n maybe go to jail, thats what Japan or China did n it worked well.

Japan

What? I've never heard of Japan restricting births before. In fact, their population is in decline - they need more births to maintain their economy.

To be fair he said "Japan OR China" implying that he isn't ignorant, but rather too lazy to look up which country has a one child only policy.

At 8/13/08 04:16 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 8/12/08 12:47 PM, AznWarlord wrote: "I don't want to get pregnant" - Use a condom

Phew. Lucky condoms work 100% of the time, guaranteed.

This argument is so full of lulz and fail.

For even if a condom was not used, you would then reply "they still need to be educated", thereby effectively pulling yet another excuse out of your ass.