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:Bugger wrote this for some odd reason:

Mos: Your defintion of mob rule is increadably stupid. The "mob" will not throw away indivual rights because they themselves are indivuals, where as monarchs can grant themselves certain rights a "mob" cannot distance themselves from what they are.

Here comes the clue bus, stopping at 123 BUGGER street!

The mob will take away rights from the minority.

They hate Communists? Solved! Anyone who supports Communism is shot.

They hate other religions? Solved! Anyone who supports other religions is shot.

They hate other races? They hate oral sex? You get the picture. Anything that fits in with the mainstream picture will be made law.

At 5/13/01 01:54 AM, KaneOfNod wrote:

At 5/6/01 09:09 AM, Bugger_all_99 wrote: Despite what communism is portraited(sp??) as, it is actually more democratic than democracy. Democracy is the voice of the people, right? Well in communism people SHOULD be allowed to vote on everyting( The problem is though, that when the USSR was made they were still in the war, then they had to fight the whites and the allies, so they had to have wartime communism but before that could end Stalin took over so we were screwed)

Democracy is flat-out stupid, because the people don't study, know, or give a flying fuck about government. They let the media decide.

Let me take note that the US is not a democracy but a democratic republic. I think it was best at about when Washington left office. He said 1)Not to form parties and 2) Not to mingle in European affairs.

Well, we all know what happened within a year.

Actually, we mingled in European affairs, because it is within our interest that other countries become capitalist and begin trading with us.

The mob will take away rights from the minority.

They hate Communists? Solved! Anyone who supports Communism is shot.

This is under communism idiot

They hate other religions? Solved! Anyone who supports other religions is shot.

They don't have religion under communism idiot

They hate other races? They hate oral sex? You get the picture. Anything that fits in with the mainstream picture will be made law.

First they need to get it a subject to be voted on

At 5/14/01 01:33 AM, Mos wrote:

Bugger wrote this for some odd reason:

Mos: Your defintion of mob rule is increadably stupid. The "mob" will not throw away indivual rights because they themselves are indivuals, where as monarchs can grant themselves certain rights a "mob" cannot distance themselves from what they are.

Here comes the clue bus, stopping at 123 BUGGER street!

The mob will take away rights from the minority.

They hate Communists? Solved! Anyone who supports Communism is shot.

They hate other religions? Solved! Anyone who supports other religions is shot.

They hate other races? They hate oral sex? You get the picture. Anything that fits in with the mainstream picture will be made law.

That sounds like China, Cuba, and the Soviet Union! Of course with the exception of the "They hate communist" part...

At 5/14/01 11:29 AM, Bugger_all_99 wrote:

The mob will take away rights from the minority.

They hate Communists? Solved! Anyone who supports Communism is shot.

This is under communism idiot

The point was about mob rule, not Communism.

They hate other religions? Solved! Anyone who supports other religions is shot.

They don't have religion under communism idiot

See above.

They hate other races? They hate oral sex? You get the picture. Anything that fits in with the mainstream picture will be made law.

First they need to get it a subject to be voted on

and when they do?

Bugger:

I'm not really sure what you mean by this:

"Then why do you present arguements which are from the media?"

If you mean that the media and I may have the same opinion about communism (which we don't entirely, but that's irrelevant), then what does that prove?

Just because two people come to the same conclusion, it does not mean that they achieved that either from the same line of argument, or from each other. There's such a thing as independent reasoning. Big assumption you made there.

That's if that's what you meant. Otherwise, explain it before you make a passing judgement.

Furthermore, I'd like to add a couple of points MOS carelessly missed when debating you (he was otherwise reasonable).

You missed three full stops at the end of your sentences, and you ended your final sentence with a preposition. Terrible form boy. :P

shorbe

The point was about mob rule, not Communism.

Then why have you posted this on a topic about communism?

shorbe: True I did make a assumption, but this was because I have heard the arguements all before and frankly yours differed little.

Gameboy: That sounds nothing like Cuba, Stalinist USSR was like that but not Leninist USSR. China isn't that bad, I think.

Bugger: Do I go around saying that you never think for yourself, and you're just regurgitating what someone else said, without any independent thought?

shorbe

No and I say again I am sorry for that assumption, you however, do make the assumption that all communists are lazy or wash-outs, you cannot think that people can be communists for any other reason and that sir is far worse an assumption then the one I made.

At 5/15/01 12:15 PM, Slizor wrote:

The point was about mob rule, not Communism.

Then why have you posted this on a topic about communism?

shorbe: True I did make a assumption, but this was because I have heard the arguements all before and frankly yours differed little.

Gameboy: That sounds nothing like Cuba, Stalinist USSR was like that but not Leninist USSR. China isn't that bad, I think.

I do know that people in China who are practicing Catholics have to go to special "government sanctioned" churches supposedly filled with communist spies.

I have never said that all people would be lazy or washouts. What I have said is that a lot of people would. I recognise that many people would work hard for the system. I feel sorry for them, because people would take advantage of them. It has already happened in many countries.

shorbe

another assumption backed up with what seems to be a genralization that lacks proof, keep it up man.

ps. Like my new name?

At 5/14/01 01:35 AM, Mos wrote:

At 5/13/01 01:54 AM, KaneOfNod wrote:

At 5/6/01 09:09 AM, Bugger_all_99 wrote: Despite what communism is portraited(sp??) as, it is actually more democratic than democracy. Democracy is the voice of the people, right? Well in communism people SHOULD be allowed to vote on everyting( The problem is though, that when the USSR was made they were still in the war, then they had to fight the whites and the allies, so they had to have wartime communism but before that could end Stalin took over so we were screwed)

Democracy is flat-out stupid, because the people don't study, know, or give a flying fuck about government. They let the media decide.

Let me take note that the US is not a democracy but a democratic republic. I think it was best at about when Washington left office. He said 1)Not to form parties and 2) Not to mingle in European affairs.

Well, we all know what happened within a year.

Actually, we mingled in European affairs, because it is within our interest that other countries become capitalist and begin trading with us.

Actually, we mingled in European affairs because they invited us.

At 5/15/01 12:15 PM, Slizor wrote:

The point was about mob rule, not Communism.

Then why have you posted this on a topic about communism?

Because you said that Communism was more Democratic than Democracy. Than I pointed out that Democracy is flawed. So, by using standard deduction, one finds that Communism is flawed.

You did not find out that democracy was flawed, you pointed out that it has the ability to suffer abuse, likewise with communism, Do you have any political theory/ideaology that it isn't possible to abuse?

At 5/18/01 04:47 PM, Slizor wrote: You did not find out that democracy was flawed, you pointed out that it has the ability to suffer abuse, likewise with communism, Do you have any political theory/ideaology that it isn't possible to abuse?

There is no such thing. However, multiple REPRESENTING the people, and who knows what he is doing, is far better than the public ruling themselves.

Anyway, you yourself said that:

People vote.
People stupid.
Therefore, Democracy Stupid.

Or something along the lines of that.

Anyway, you yourself said that:

People vote.
People stupid.
Therefore, Democracy Stupid.

That was pretty much it. However communism can only come about with the masses becoming aware of the world of politics. Also it would rule out the possiblity of canditadates which use popular subjects then tag what they want on the end.

Slizor: The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Communist countries were, and are, hopelessly behind non-communist ones. The spirit of competition is what sets them apart. Without the drive or incentive to compete, people slack off.

shorbe

Slizor: The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Communist countries were, and are, hopelessly behind non-communist ones. The spirit of competition is what sets them apart. Without the drive or incentive to compete, people slack off.

Have you ever thought that these countries were actually behind before they turned communist? That is normally why a country turns communist

Slizor: Compare countries that began the same, but developed very differently. Notice the major difference. These countries include North and South Korea, and East and West Germany before re-unification.

shorbe

Got this off http://www.koreascope.org/english/index.htm

US talks with North Korea are expected to be resumed around the middle of next month, but prior to that Seoul, Washington and Tokyo will begin fine-tuning their policies toward the Stalinist country.

You notice the word Stalinist? Stalin was not a commmunist(while in power at least)

You still didn't answer my question.

shorbe

Which question?

I asked you to compare countries such as North and South Korea.

shorbe

God damn your laziness, Slizor do this, Slizor do that.
Anyway did a little research, North Korea is massivly in debt, whereas South Korea is the 11th richest country in the world. For example "In addition, the South registered US$ 23.94 billion of a surplus in terms of the balance of international payments in 1999 while the North recorded US$ 450 million of a deficit during the same year. In the 1990s, the North recorded an annual deficit of US$ 300 to 800 million. "
But I did some more research and found this
The war began on June 25 when the North Korean army, substantially equipped by the Soviet Union, crossed the 38th parallel and invaded South Korea. The United States immediately responded by sending supplies to Korea, and it quickly broadened its commitment in the conflict. On June 27 the UN Security Council, with the Soviet Union voluntarily absent, passed a U.S.-sponsored resolution calling for military sanctions against North Korea. Three days later, U.S. President Harry S. Truman ordered combat forces stationed in Japan deployed to Korea. American forces, those of South Korea, and, ultimately, combat contingents from Australia, Belgium, Luxembourg, Canada, Colombia, Ethiopia, France, Great Britain, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, the Philippines, South Africa, Thailand, and Turkey, with medical units from Denmark, India, and Sweden, were placed under a unified UN command headed by the U.S. commander in chief in the Far East, General Douglas MacArthur. The participating ground forces of these nations, the United States, and South Korea were grouped in the U.S. Eighth Army. The action was unique because neither the UN nor its predecessor, the League of Nations, had ever used military measures to repel an aggressor.

and then
The U.S. suffered 157,530 casualties; deaths from all causes totaled 33,629, of which 23,300 occurred in combat. South Korea sustained 1,312,836 military casualties, including 415,004 dead; casualties among other UN allies totaled 16,532, including 3094 dead. Estimated Communist casualties were 2 million. The economic and social damage to the Korean nation was incalculable.

That is from encarta 98 and the top bit is the link on the other post, if you were wondering. There may be massive differences between north and south Korea, but there are other reasons then just ineffuctual politics(not saying there is)

At 5/6/01 09:09 AM, Slizor wrote: Despite what communism is portraited(sp??) as, it is actually more democratic than democracy. Democracy is the voice of the people, right? Well in communism people SHOULD be allowed to vote on everyting( The problem is though, that when the USSR was made they were still in the war, then they had to fight the whites and the allies, so they had to have wartime communism but before that could end Stalin took over so we were screwed)

what's that saying about communism. "All men are equal, just some are more equal than others"

At 5/26/01 03:14 PM, Uncle_Boris wrote:

At 5/6/01 09:09 AM, Slizor wrote: Despite what communism is portraited(sp??) as, it is actually more democratic than democracy. Democracy is the voice of the people, right? Well in communism people SHOULD be allowed to vote on everyting( The problem is though, that when the USSR was made they were still in the war, then they had to fight the whites and the allies, so they had to have wartime communism but before that could end Stalin took over so we were screwed)

what's that saying about communism. "All men are equal, just some are more equal than others"

I think that quote was in reference to democracy.

Democracy and Communism fail because (most) people are inherently selfish, greedy, self-righteous and short-sighted.

Slizor: If you say there are other reasons as to why we can't say communism is less effective, or worse, then likewise, you also can't say it is more effective, or better.

shorbe

Boris: "From one according to their ability, to one according to their need"

Shorbe: Oh no, go ahead and say communism is less effective and bring examples, I'll then wander off in to the woods of the internet and find whats wrong with them. Some things you just have to belive in or you are nothing.

Alright, here's my take.

Communism is the ideal form of government. This is of course assuming that the goverment has no corruption and is always thinking about the best interest of the whole of the people. Since the likelihood of that happening makes me lol, it will never work.

Those of you who were talking about democracy: There are no democracies. The United States is a Federal Republic. The UK is a Constitutional Monarchy. Democracy is a political buzz word that sounds good because the individual person likes the idea of having more say in the world. Democracy would work if everybody was responsible enough to vote intelligently and every time. The likelihood of that also makes me laugh.

Right now, there is no perfect yet practical form of government. Until we figure out what is, we're stuck with the Golden Rule. Whoever has the gold makes the rules. I don't like it, but that is the case.