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Thats the glory of being the occupant, you're right no matter what you do. I don't see much difference between the israelis and the German Nazis, except for the scale of the killing, but give Israel time.

At 2/21/06 07:11 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

http://www.guardian...2763,1643573,00.html

[ Oh, but wait a minute, the Israelis have to look like good guys and the Muslims have to appear to be evil - better disregard this article then! ]

Wow at firsy you had me worriedd. good thing i can read an entire article instead of dozing off halway. The dumbass walked into forbidden territory with her bag. now while to you this may not seem like a big deal but it is huge. In isreal if a bag is left lying around they will evacuate the area and then send in a device to defuse any possible bomb. You seem to try on get on our consience by trying to stress the fact that its a girl. However ijn isreal it happens many times that teenagers will blow themselves up to kill a few isrealis. The fact that he shot her 17 times is that if she did have a bomb and shes shot all it takes is one click to explode it. I feel no remorse because she shouldve known to not go where there with something that can conceal a bomb.

At 2/21/06 07:16 PM, zeus_almighty wrote: Wow and I dont care either.

The politics forum is not for apathy!

Jeez. Also, this will be condemned by the US and Israeli gov'ts as an isolated incident. Of course generals and higher echelon ranks don't condone this behaviour. It's a result of poor morale and over-stressed soldiers.

Imagine how pissed you'd be at the palestinians if you were Israeli and vice-versa.

The peace process is very long and difficult.

At 2/21/06 07:16 PM, ironmaiden233 wrote: israel treats the palestians like shit. they kill to many inocents

To many innocents? Are you saying there is an appropriate number to kill other then zero?

At 2/21/06 07:11 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: ...years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

Oh really? Did you even look at the date written on the article?! It says specifically "Wednesday November 16, 2005", how come it is yesterday? It also seems like this whole thread is full of nonesense and bullshit about the Israeli Palastinian relations coming out of ignorance of these subjects. Why do people pretend to know so much about these relations? If you don't know about it enough to make a topic, then don't make a topic!
For example, the subject of this topic you chose, was talked about a long, long time ago all over the Israeli and, I assume, also other papers. If you didn't care about this when it was "news" why do you care about it so much now? I will, however, fix your dumb thinking and wrong point of view on this subject.
It occured more than once that in these places, in which the soldier who killed the girls was at, a kid was found with a bomb in his bag, or on him somewhere. In those days, you couldn't have taken any chances, and you can never be sure of who is having a bomb and who is not. If the soldier thought that she was hiding something he has the right to search for it, if she is not answering the request, well, you saw what happened. The court found him unguilty because of the fact that she mught had a bomb, and she wasn't fallawing orders.
I know, maybe it is not fully right to shoot her over and over again, but it wasn't fully wrong either. In this case, i don't agree with the court's decision to release him from all charges, because this is just very, very dumb. However, I can understand the reasoning of why the let him off smoothly.
About your source, I really don't like that one, the article, and this whole News site as a whole, is very anti-Israeli. First of, the whole article is written in a very anti-Israeli tone and it tries to blame all of the Israelis for the court's and soldiers mistake. Second of, they also doubt every piece of information given to them by the Israeli authorities. This source of yours, and many others BTW, is screwed and I don't like it very much.

And now, to reply to people's stupid declarations:

At 2/21/06 07:11 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: [ Oh, but wait a minute, the Israelis have to look like good guys and the Muslims have to appear to be evil - better disregard this article then! ]

<stupidity> You know what, you are right, confirming a death of a girl who might have been a terrorist is much more evil than targeting innocent civilians. </stupidity>
We actually have no problem with the Muslims, and we don't try to make the Palastinians look evil. However, when you bring about two suicide bombers in five days, this is how you look like. If the suicide bombers are trying to fight for the liberty of palastine, then they have to stop blowing themselves up and then whine about how we confirm the death of possible terrorists.
Just to clarify this, I am not saying that all of the Palastinians are terrorists or in any way implying that all of the palastinians support the terrorism. I am just pointing out the facts that in those days almost every day you heard of a suicide bomber.

At 2/21/06 07:16 PM, ironmaiden233 wrote: israel treats the palestians like shit. they kill to many inocents

I usually don't get angry about people like you so easily, but you just seem like you want to pretend you understand in "Politics", thus you say silly things. If you don't know a ot about the Israeli-palastinian conflict, don't post here. If you do know, however, something which I find hard to believe, don't post just one sentance which is stupidly phrased and says nothing.
To reply to your "tought" (like you really think) of Israelis being mean to Palastinians, you have to0 look at the facts. Before the Intifada, which is, in case you didn't know (and you didn't), the name of the past violent conflict between us and the Palastinians, you never heard of stories like that. It is just that those days we were very caushion and we couldn't take any chances, everyone turned out to be a terrorist. Even people of our own turned out to help the terrorists.
So, before saying that we treat them like shit, see how they treet us and see how many cases like these you find. You can't just take a single occasion of a single Israeli and say "O_o, the Israelis are all treating palastinians like shit, o_O". generalizations are so out!
Also, look at what the palastinians are doing, they are not right as well. "Not all the palastinians are terrorists or support it" you may say, well, not all of the Israelis support this act as well. I think that killing hundreds of innocent citizens is much more horrible than killing one girl, even if she was completely innocent.

At 2/21/06 07:16 PM, zeus_almighty wrote: Wow and I dont care either.

Short and to the point! Why the hell did you post here then?!

At 2/21/06 07:26 PM, BFG_9000 wrote: In the Palestine-Israel conflict, there is no 'good' or 'evil'. Just a lot of confusion and pain.

This is the first one I see in this thread who is not saying a complete nonesense.

At 2/21/06 07:30 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: Now tell that to the rest of the country and watch how quickly you get labelled a terrorist or an anti-semite.

This is untrue, it seems like you treat the Israelis as peolpe who judge people according to only one aspect of them. Well, we don't, not everyone who supports the palastinians is a terrorist or an anti semite, and it is a pity you think that we, the Israelis, think that way.

At 2/21/06 07:35 PM, PharaohRamsesII wrote: Happens in all wars. Shut the fuck up.

Happens also in faked wars, did you see the pictures from Iraq? Pretty horrible. ;-)

At 2/21/06 07:39 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: Jews > Muslims (because TV and peer-pressure say so god danmit!)

It seems like you have an interesting understanding of this whole conflict, right? As you saw in the article, it said nothing about us being good, it actually supported the stupid claim that we are on the evil side. Besides, are you claiming that the whole world is more pro-israeli than pro-Palastinian? Or that the jews are controlling the world media and using it for their own selfish needs? I didn't quite get this part...

Wow, this post was so interesting it actually got a continuation, woW.

To be continued next post...

A continuation from last post.

At 2/21/06 07:44 PM, BFG_9000 wrote: The institution that the germans fought for did deplorable, horrible things. But that doesn't make them evil.

You see? I disagree with you, that is because of the fact that a lot of Germans did agree and co-operated with the horrible things.
Evil- Morally bad or wrong...

At 2/21/06 07:46 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: Go to a bar mitzvah and say that :)

Once again, you seem so confident and sure that the Jews are labling you very quickly just if you say germans are not evil. What kind of monsters do you think we are?! This, I am sorry to say, is labling the Jews as fast judgers, which makes you as bad as you claim us to be.
Did you ever go to a bar mitzva in Israel so that you can so surely decide that we are labling everyone so quickly?

At 2/21/06 07:48 PM, BFG_9000 wrote: No thanks, I have no intention of being brutally murdered by an angry mob.

This is just rediculous! I am not even going to start replying to this , because it seems you lost every sense of logic!

At 2/21/06 07:50 PM, zeus_almighty wrote: Yay!

Shut up you! what do you know at all?

At 2/21/06 07:53 PM, PharaohRamsesII wrote: Of course the Jews would get angry and try to hurt you.

Of course, this makes so much sense, whenever I hear someone saying that the nazis were bad but not evil I will try to hurt him. What do you think we ae, barbaric?! Seriously, this is one of the silliest things I have ever heard, not to mention the fact that you are saying this so confidently. "Of course they will try to hurt you", are you really that dumb?!

At 2/21/06 08:17 PM, zeus_almighty wrote:

At 2/21/06 08:14 PM, zeus_almighty wrote: look at his sig gawd

and profile

Yup, when everything got suddenly boring, I found out that he is a neo-nazi, great!

At 2/21/06 11:42 PM, darklad wrote: nothing new here, they slaughter 8 civilians about every day and say they were trying to reach a terrorist that magically popped to a crowded civilian zone, and they launch missiles, they chilled a bit in the sieze fire, they still did it but less, and now their at full speed again

Yeah, right, we slaughtered 8 people a day, this is so true I am crying now. If you want to say a thing like that, you better have a reality behind that, otherwise it is just a big lie, and it is a big lie. We did not kill 8 palastinians a day, and we do not need to kill so many people in order to eliminate a terrorist. We don't launch missiles, as you claim, every day, but once in a very, very long while.
In what reality do you think you live in?!

At 2/23/06 02:24 AM, Shin-Tenshu wrote: israel might have a military more suficticated then us, and have a type of CIA that is much better then ours, but their courts are shit!

Nope, the courts aren't shit, the army courts on the other hand, are pretty awful, yeah...

he murders a girl who wasnt a threat, then the courts act as if it never happened!

He didn't murder her, he confirmed her death, it is different.

well he will face punishment in the end. eternity in hell.

Well, in this case, why would you care? He will have his punishment. Too bad there is no hell, a pity, a damn shame.

At 2/23/06 09:33 AM, bcdemon wrote: Thats the glory of being the occupant, you're right no matter what you do. I don't see much difference between the israelis and the German Nazis, except for the scale of the killing, but give Israel time.

Omg! I just can't believe you said that! I really can't! How low people can get?! Compairing us and the palastinains to nazi Germany? This is the stupidest thing I heard in a while. Do you also really think we will kill that much Palastinians in time?! Let me ask you a question, when was the last time you heard of an occasion like that? When did you hear of a day in which we killed as much palastinians as needed for a genocide? Also, how can we kill 6,000,000 Palastinians? There are barely 4,000,000.
I will stop talking to you from now on till eternity, since you are too stupid not to see the clear difference.
The Germans killed Jews for being jews. We kill terrorists because they are willing to kill us. It is true, from time to time we have a mistake, but it is not nazi Germany.
Stupid!

I think this is enough, I hope so too. I was really surprised to find that much ignorance and stupidity in here... Oh wells.

He didn't murder her, he confirmed her death, it is different.

I'll remember this if I'm ever on trial for murder.
"By stabbing him, sir, I wasn't trying to kill him, just make sure he was dead."

At 2/24/06 12:42 PM, Slizor wrote: I'll remember this if I'm ever on trial for murder.
"By stabbing him, sir, I wasn't trying to kill him, just make sure he was dead."

Well, it is somehow correct. If there is a proof that he was already dead before you stabbed him, you cannot be charged for killing him, but for tons of other crimes.

At 2/21/06 07:16 PM, ironmaiden233 wrote: israel treats the palestians like shit. they kill to many inocents

one war crime out of hundread plus crime...it was just one pyscho guy that killed one person...theres hundread more other and possibly more fucked up deaths...(no wait a made this worse, oppps)

I'm there now, so here are the 2 cents of the local media.

The soldiers went on a routine check around their camp,
They noticed an entity with a bag that looked like a bomb
They shot that entity AFTER they identified it as a child and AFTER all their requests that she stops moving were not answered
The soldier emptied a round on her to verify that the entity that was identified holding a bad containing possibly dangerous material and wouldn't stop at 100 meters distance from an army base gets killed.

I don't blame them, honestly, I don't think the soldier slaughtered her (and yes I'd call that slaughter) out of bad intention, I think he should have been better trained though

yeah, and I can confirm most of what lidov said, generally the news about it on news sites are archived, I don't recall the actual dates but they're not new.

At 2/21/06 08:21 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: , its obvious ALL Israeli soldiers were involved in the killing.

No, but its obvious that Israel condones the actions of that soldier since he was aquitted of the charges.

At 2/24/06 11:53 PM, TurnipClock wrote: No, but its obvious that Israel condones the actions of that soldier since he was aquitted of the charges.

It is funny that you don't make a difference between the state of Israel and the citizen's opinions to the army court's decision. The court and the state of Israel are not the same thing.

At 2/25/06 06:22 AM, Lidov wrote:

At 2/24/06 11:53 PM, TurnipClock wrote: No, but its obvious that Israel condones the actions of that soldier since he was aquitted of the charges.

It is funny that you don't make a difference between the state of Israel and the citizen's opinions to the army court's decision. The court and the state of Israel are not the same thing.

But if the State of Israel did not accept the judgements of the courts, as a democracy, it has the power to disagree. It does not. From this, one can see that either Israel condones these actions or (more likely) these actions are not widely known.

At 2/25/06 07:39 AM, x_Toadenalin_x wrote: But if the State of Israel did not accept the judgements of the courts, as a democracy, it has the power to disagree. It does not. From this, one can see that either Israel condones these actions or (more likely) these actions are not widely known.

Not at all, as a democracy, the court has the right to give every punishment it thinks it is right to give. Neither the Kneset nor the government has the right to disagree. besides, these actions are widely known in Israel and a lot of people really disagree with the decision of the court.

you used too, maybe not in the cease fire, but before that, when yasser arafat was alive, do you deny that? i don't want to open a can of worms here, so i'll leave it at that, you might not follow the everyday lives of palestinians, or maybe you do, with the isrealie media, but i lived it, and you to deny the suffering and acts off terror the isrealie goverment has done, is as good as iran denying the holocoast

At 2/25/06 11:22 AM, darklad wrote: A very long sentance.

It is not correct at all, maybe the lives of the Palastinians were misrable, but we did not kill 8 palastinians a day. Maybe one day we illed 8 palastinians, but we certainly did not kill 8 per day. We also didn't kill 7 per day or even 1 per day, we killed some from time to time, and if we killed them it was for a reason, not just because we are evil.

At 2/25/06 11:33 AM, Lidov wrote:

It is not correct at all, maybe the lives of the Palastinians were misrable, but we did not kill 8 palastinians a day. Maybe one day we illed 8 palastinians, but we certainly did not kill 8 per day. We also didn't kill 7 per day or even 1 per day, we killed some from time to time, and if we killed them it was for a reason, not just because we are evil.

i never called the isralie's evil, mind you, the likud and the army were devils, i hope the new goverment won't follow their steps, and i can assure you that you did, you went after hamas and other fighters, you would find them, launch air to ground attacks and blow all the sorroundings with it, i remeber them vivdley.

At 2/21/06 07:11 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

;
How can any reasonable person expect a different response from the soldier.
She was deliberately in the wrong place.
She would not follow instuctions.
She was carring a 'bag'
If it was me , I would think of self preservation.
The suicide bombers are usually young people (male as well as female)and if ever it became a me or you issue
I will always do what I could to protect me- fuck you-
I believe the soldier acted correctly.

Dude their dumb asses.
Remember crapy schools
Extreamist
Its wroung all and all it just it dosnt feel like a big deal

At 2/25/06 12:10 PM, Chibi_Overlord wrote: Dude their dumb asses.
Remember crapy schools
Extreamist
Its wroung all and all it just it dosnt feel like a big deal

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, then you are saying silly stuff. So, clarify me tis please, what the hell are you talking about?!

What if it was an Israeli girl.Same situation but a girl who was Israeli.

FOX news would be blaring out that an innocent girl was killed no matter the situation.Palestinians would be labeled terrorists.there would be outrage and the palestinians soldiers would be silenced and ignored.

At 2/25/06 12:42 PM, muteecho wrote: What if it was an Israeli girl.Same situation but a girl who was Israeli.

FOX news would be blaring out that an innocent girl was killed no matter the situation.Palestinians would be labeled terrorists.there would be outrage and the palestinians soldiers would be silenced and ignored.

Do I really need to link you to the dozens of articles about the terror acts which were made by the terrorists and caused the death of dozens of girls? I, personaly, know someone whose daughter and son were killed in a bombing in a resturant.
In case you did not know, BTW, in innocent people killing, the Palastinians have killed much, much more than we did. I also don't remember so much blabering about the unrightness of the bombings in, lets say, the club in Tel Aviv on FOX news.

At 2/25/06 02:04 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 2/25/06 12:42 PM, muteecho wrote: What if it was an Israeli girl.Same situation but a girl who was Israeli.

FOX news would be blaring out that an innocent girl was killed no matter the situation.Palestinians would be labeled terrorists.there would be outrage and the palestinians soldiers would be silenced and ignored.

Do I really need to link you to the dozens of articles about the terror acts which were made by the terrorists and caused the death of dozens of girls? I, personaly, know someone whose daughter and son were killed in a bombing in a resturant.
In case you did not know, BTW, in innocent people killing, the Palastinians have killed much, much more than we did. I also don't remember so much blabering about the unrightness of the bombings in, lets say, the club in Tel Aviv on FOX news.

FOX is known to be a staunch Israeli supporter meaning whatever Israel does is ok.

and approximately 3,000 Palestinians have been killed them mostly being Women and children,compared to 800 israeli dead.

But of course you have an excuse for this right?Most of the people Israelis have killed were inncoents either gunned down by trigger happy soldiers,simply killed because they are at the mercy of Israel,or killed by Israeli helicopters recklessley launching missles in Palestinian territory.

that is horrible. I cant even imagine why the hell he would do that. What a fuck up in life. I wouldve executed the soldier if i had the chance

At 2/25/06 05:47 PM, muteecho wrote: and approximately 3,000 Palestinians have been killed them mostly being Women and children,compared to 800 israeli dead.

I am pretty sure that this is not true, we don't just kill palastinians for no reason, this is a rediculous claim. If 3,000 Palastinains were killed, and I am pretty sure this is untrue, it wasn't because the Israeli government decided "lets kill innocent palastinians".

But of course you have an excuse for this right?

Yah, gimme sources.

Most of the people Israelis have killed were inncoents either gunned down by trigger happy soldiers,simply killed because they are at the mercy of Israel,or killed by Israeli helicopters recklessley launching missles in Palestinian territory.

This sentance is very unclear, I seriously can't nderstand the meaning of it. But it has a lot of commas, so it must say something serious.

At 2/25/06 06:03 PM, AtomicTerrorist wrote: that is horrible. I cant even imagine why the hell he would do that. What a fuck up in life. I wouldve executed the soldier if i had the chance

You don't even know the details of that case, you can't just say that this is horrible without knowing the details. He did that because she was carrying a mysterious bag, which she didn't open to show its content and wasn't following orders. It is his duty to keep this place safe, and it occured a few times that kids, like her, were carrying bombs in their bags.

one thing is for sure....he is going to burn in hell for all of eternity for that.

i hope his death is slow and painful.

At 2/21/06 08:34 PM, -Jose- wrote: Are you kidding me? From what it looks like from the transcript, she was in a military zone, and they had orders to kill all those within that zone. Where are the parents keeping her away from restricted military zones?

Oh wait, thats right, no one takes responsibility anymore, on either side of war.

She was identified as a ten year old girl who was scared shitless and had no idea where she was or what was going on. The only reason she was believed to be a threat was that they thought the backpack could be a bomb. After establishing that it wasn't a bomb, she fled the area, at which point a sniper picked he off, then went down, found her, and shot her 16 more times.

If it was a 10 year old Isreali unarmed civillian outside the guarded vicinity, they wouldn't have even though of sniping her.

So this soldier should shoot an innocent girl 17 times because she walked into their 'zone'. Israelis are even worse than nazi's if thats how they think, and your no better than them to accept the fact that a 13 year old girl was slaughtered for no reason. Go rethink your life bitch how would you like it if your daughter was just brutally killed for no reason?

At 2/26/06 07:39 AM, Lidov wrote:

At 2/25/06 05:47 PM, muteecho wrote: and approximately 3,000 Palestinians have been killed them mostly being Women and children,compared to 800 israeli dead.

I am pretty sure that this is not true, we don't just kill palastinians for no reason, this is a rediculous claim. If 3,000 Palastinains were killed, and I am pretty sure this is untrue, it wasn't because the Israeli government decided "lets kill innocent palastinians".

But of course you have an excuse for this right?

Yah, gimme sources.

Most of the people Israelis have killed were inncoents either gunned down by trigger happy soldiers,simply killed because they are at the mercy of Israel,or killed by Israeli helicopters recklessley launching missles in Palestinian territory.

This sentance is very unclear, I seriously can't nderstand the meaning of it. But it has a lot of commas, so it must say something serious.

At 2/25/06 06:03 PM, AtomicTerrorist wrote: that is horrible. I cant even imagine why the hell he would do that. What a fuck up in life. I wouldve executed the soldier if i had the chance

You don't even know the details of that case, you can't just say that this is horrible without knowing the details. He did that because she was carrying a mysterious bag, which she didn't open to show its content and wasn't following orders. It is his duty to keep this place safe, and it occured a few times that kids, like her, were carrying bombs in their bags.

Lidov heres a very reliable source.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

remember lidov just because someone is jewish or israeli doesnt mean they arent bad people.you cant defend killers.

Yes that sildier actually does deserve to be killed because a Palestinian soldier wouldve been killed if he shot an innocent girl.