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At 2/14/06 02:57 PM, The_Tank wrote:

At 2/14/06 02:53 PM, mayeram wrote: Christianity is fear of god. The pope uses this fear to control what people do because he is a power hungry bastard that thinks he knows what’s best for you better then you do. The Vatican thinks that if you have protection from pregnancy or STDs when having sex, that you will be more likely to have it and therefore say that protection is bad.

Yeah and the Pope also goes door to door at night stealing babies and eating them alive, why do you think we’re against abortion.

Really? I didn’t know that. Hmm another reason for me to hate Christianity....where's Van Helsing when you need him...

Ok seriously, I went a bit over the top there, like calling the pope a power hungry bastard, but the whole speech about the Catholic Church using fear to control the masses is a bull’s eye.

This "The Vatican thinks that if you have protection from pregnancy or STDs when having sex, that you will be more likely to have it and therefore say that protection is bad." is basically proven fact, and really isn’t open for interpretation this is pretty much their stand.

In other words being a slut and sleeping with tons of men and then living on the welfare that the government pays you is ok. But if you are 18 and want to have sex with your girlfriend, and don’t want to have to have your life ruined by having a child yet, and uses a condom. You are being unfaithful to god.

Yeah and if your catholic every Sunday you need to drink blood out of a skull and have sex with as many animals as possible.

Really? I didn’t know...the blood is bad, but about the animals...hmm maybe Christians aren’t as bad as I thought...

If they say that sex is ok as long as it isn’t rape and it isn’t protected, then they are saying it is ok to be to be a slut and have many men sleep with you, as long as you don’t marry any of them. I have heard Christians say that people that use birth control (such as condoms) are being unfaithful to god. Therefore the bottom story follows the views of those people. Since the pope hates the use of condoms, he must think like them...

The worst part is that the Vatican is unwilling to change their minds even though it has become painfully obvious that their policy it harming the world more then helping it.

You’re right, we should just bomb the Vatican then huh, you simple minded, prejudice, retarded, bigoted, KKK member

...that’s not very nice. I am not simple minded. I question what people in authority tell me, that’s why I don’t listen to people like the pope or the president. I am not prejudice, I am telling the truth, that all the church wants is to control you by taking away your free will. Retarded...well that may be true, but you don’t have to say it out loud... JK LOL :) bigoted? I don’t think that anything I have stated other then the pope being a power hungry bastard was too far from the mark... KKK member....um, no I am quite non-racist, just against anyone that is trying to control the way you think. What lead you to the idea that I didn’t like blacks or Jews?

The Catholic Church is almost never willing to admit that they are wrong, even if it costs lives to retain their way of thinking. Look up bloody Mary in English history.

If you substitute Christianity for the pope, it is pretty much what I feel..

The Catholic Church will result to anything as long as there's profit in it.

At 2/14/06 03:37 PM, The_Tank wrote:

At 2/14/06 03:32 PM, bakem0n0 wrote: You can't respond to abuse with abuse and expect the other guy to bring flowers next time.

He said that the Pope uses fear to control the minds of catholics and is a power hungry bastard.

"In other words being a slut and sleeping with tons of men and then living on the welfare that the government pays you is ok. "
- mayeram
He also has no idea what he's talking about.

You didn't see bashing in any of that?

could you please explain what exactly you find incorrect in what i am saying, and then tell me why you object rather then just saying that i am right and you are wrong, i am smart and you are dumb. the politics forum is not about saying other members in the forum are dumb, it is for arguing various political issues. without explanations there is no way to argue.

At 2/14/06 03:52 PM, notld224 wrote: i don't see why the catholic church is so jittery about sex topics..

It’s because the members of the Catholic Church are all forbidden to have sex, so sex becomes a no no. (This is why child molesters get into the Catholic Church, most normal people aren’t willing to give up a life with a wife and children and the ones that are wouldn’t really want to have a wife and children anyway..) Anyone that is willing to give up a normal life (like having a wife and children) in order to live a life worshiping a god is messed up.

Seriously, wouldn’t you deem it a failure if you never found someone to love and have children with in your entire life?

At 2/14/06 03:55 PM, The_Tank wrote: Hell just because someones Catholic doesn't mean their going to take their religion more seriously than the rest of the Christians. We all choose to disagree with certain aspects of our religion, if you just go around blindly following your faith to the letter your a fool and you have no mind of your own, regardless of which label you wear. I'm just trying to give you people some insight into why Catholics believe what they believe.

i totally agree, you shouldnt take everything that the leaders of your religion say as the truth, jesus himself said that you should worship god in your own way, this meens you dont have to go to church like the leaders are trying to make you believe.

At 2/14/06 04:01 PM, The_Tank wrote:

Catholic teaching states that Sex without the possibility of conception is nothing more than mindless stimulation. This includes Homosexuality. Does that mean that I as a Catholic don't like to partake in mindless stimulation? Hell no.

I'm with you here man! Say yes to mindless stimulation!

:)

At 2/15/06 12:55 PM, mayeram wrote: could you please explain what exactly you find incorrect in what i am saying, and then tell me why you object rather then just saying that i am right and you are wrong, i am smart and you are dumb. the politics forum is not about saying other members in the forum are dumb, it is for arguing various political issues. without explanations there is no way to argue.

You aren't supposed to have sex until you are married in the catholic church. Every act of sex is supposed to remain open to the possibility of conception IE no birth control. You are not allowed to have a divorce unless certain details are met, and even then it isn't a divorce, it's an annulment which means that the marriage was invaled and never existed in the first place. Therefore the only person you should be having sex with is your husband or wife. If your husband or wife dies then you can get a new marriage.

Therefore you can't go around acting like a slut. Infact if your a Christian you can't go around acting like a slut.

I only know of two effective methods of birth control:

1. Don't have sex

2. Chop off your dick

At 2/15/06 02:29 PM, The_Tank wrote:

Therefore you can't go around acting like a slut. Infact if your a Christian you can't go around acting like a slut.

Sure you can. Just because you do not follow the church 100% or because you are not perfect does not mean you can't be a christian. Under those pretenses anyone who sins isn't a Christian. Face it, no one here truely deserves to enter the gates of heaven for all have fallen short of the glory of God, no one is perfect. It is thru God's grace that allows us to enter the kingdom of heaven. Its not up to you to judge who is a Christian and who isn't, its up to God himself.

At 2/15/06 02:48 PM, ReiperX wrote: Sure you can. Just because you do not follow the church 100% or because you are not perfect does not mean you can't be a christian. Under those pretenses anyone who sins isn't a Christian. Face it, no one here truely deserves to enter the gates of heaven for all have fallen short of the glory of God, no one is perfect. It is thru God's grace that allows us to enter the kingdom of heaven. Its not up to you to judge who is a Christian and who isn't, its up to God himself.

I never said any of that. I was just restating Catholic Dogma and basic christian rules, not endorsing them as the only way to get into heaven.

I maintain the RCC's stance:

Birth Control doesn't deterr people from getting diseases, in fact, it wrongly assures them of safety.

Birth Control then becomes almost an endorsement for premarital sex, whereas if you totally take away the perceived "protection" of birth control, then people will eitehr stop having premarital sex, or they'll take their chances.

I'm Roman Catholic. Don't like birth control. But I'm pro-choice and pro-capital punishment.

I'm pro-choice because although I follow the same RCC standard as birth control, that abortion is an endorsement to bad and harmful behaviors and doesn't solve the problem, I think kids should get a second chance. The world's harsh enough as it is, and if someone makes 1 mistake they shouldn't have to pay for it for the rest of their lives (although in some cases that's unavoidable).

That's my reasoning anyways.......
Also proves that you don't have to follow the RCC to the letter, cause I haven't been excommunicated.

At 2/15/06 03:00 PM, The_Tank wrote:

At 2/15/06 02:48 PM, ReiperX wrote:

I never said any of that. I was just restating Catholic Dogma and basic christian rules, not endorsing them as the only way to get into heaven.

Most churches I have gone to know that you will sin, and you will stray. It doesn't keep you from being a Christian. So whores could be a Christian.

At 2/15/06 03:51 PM, ReiperX wrote:

At 2/15/06 03:00 PM, The_Tank wrote:

At 2/15/06 02:48 PM, ReiperX wrote:

Most churches I have gone to know that you will sin, and you will stray. It doesn't keep you from being a Christian. So whores could be a Christian.

yes of course it's possible.

When you ask for forgivness for your sins, you clearly try to not do that sin again and resist against it.

Just like homosexuals.
It's a sin, you ask for forgivness and you try not to do it again.

At 2/15/06 02:31 PM, MatthewTheLion wrote: I only know of two effective methods of birth control:

1. Don't have sex

2. Chop off your dick

Aaaaw...you're such a CUTE little archcatholic anti-progress guy aren't you. Yes you areeeee *insert baby noises*.

But seriously. Condoms are near 100% effective if used properly. And so is the pill.

At 2/15/06 04:31 PM, mackid wrote:

At 2/15/06 02:31 PM, MatthewTheLion wrote:

But seriously. Condoms are near 100% effective if used properly. And so is the pill.

Against Birth, not against STD's.

At 2/15/06 03:51 PM, ReiperX wrote:

At 2/15/06 03:00 PM, The_Tank wrote:

At 2/15/06 02:48 PM, ReiperX wrote:

I never said any of that. I was just restating Catholic Dogma and basic christian rules, not endorsing them as the only way to get into heaven.

Most churches I have gone to know that you will sin, and you will stray. It doesn't keep you from being a Christian. So whores could be a Christian.

Yes of course! Adolph Hitler was Christian and so is the BTK killer. Some of the nicest people have been Christian, but also some of the most evil. This is why I don’t want to go to heaven, there will be too many evil people there that acknowledged Jesus as their personal savior and were able to enter heaven. I would much rather go where Ghandi went. At least there I wouldn’t have to deal with rapists and murders walking around happily.

I think the Ten Commandments are not really rules, more like guidelines. I heard once that the previous pope John Paul pardoned the Turk that shot him. If you can be pardoned from killing, then the Ten Commandments are really just guidelines of how to live a good life, rather then rules on how to get into heaven.

Mayeram:

You really don't know much about Catholicism, do you?
Or Christianity for that matter?

Cause most of the stuff you've said is totally wrong.......

At 2/15/06 04:34 PM, Fenrus1989 wrote:

At 2/15/06 04:31 PM, mackid wrote:

At 2/15/06 02:31 PM, MatthewTheLion wrote:

But seriously. Condoms are near 100% effective if used properly. And so is the pill.

Against Birth, not against STD's.

The pill doesn’t help at all against STDs, but condoms will block STDs as long as they don’t pop. If you have this problem with condoms, consider the economy size condoms, AKA. Your plastic garbage bag. That, or mate with a cow or something. If your Wong is big enough to burst a condom, then it is big enough to please a cow.....

*plugs nose and waits for the puke to start spilling*

At 2/15/06 04:40 PM, Imperator wrote: Mayeram:

You really don't know much about Catholicism, do you?
Or Christianity for that matter?

Cause most of the stuff you've said is totally wrong.......

Like what? The Christian church isn’t about anything but control through fear. They are so convoluted that they themselves believe their bull shit, so it isn’t really like they are lying when they say they are trying to help people. They just don’t realize that they are like zombies passing on the infection to other weaker people. There are plenty of good Christians, but they are all deluded. It wasn’t Christianity that made them good people, they were raised that way. If they had never learned about Christianity they would still have been good people.

Besides what is there to "know" (other then the beliefs of other people)? I thought Christians only "believed" what they were told in church.

Any heaven that Ghandi wasn’t allowed into is not a heaven I want to live in.

At 2/15/06 04:38 PM, mayeram wrote:

At 2/15/06 03:51 PM, ReiperX wrote:

At 2/15/06 03:00 PM, The_Tank wrote:

At 2/15/06 02:48 PM, ReiperX wrote:

Yes of course! Adolph Hitler was Christian and so is the BTK killer. Some of the nicest people have been Christian, but also some of the most evil. This is why I don’t want to go to heaven, there will be too many evil people there that acknowledged Jesus as their personal savior and were able to enter heaven. I would much rather go where Ghandi went. At least there I wouldn’t have to deal with rapists and murders walking around happily.

You also have to follow the rules to get into heaven. You have to have repented your past sinfull ways to get into heaven.

So these people would be former murderers and rapists, but they put thier sins behind them and asked god, for true forgivness.

And they meant it.

I think the Ten Commandments are not really rules, more like guidelines. I heard once that the previous pope John Paul pardoned the Turk that shot him. If you can be pardoned from killing, then the Ten Commandments are really just guidelines of how to live a good life, rather then rules on how to get into heaven.

Ten Commandments are law.

You must follow these laws.

Though shall not kill is one of them.

Like i said before, you can commit a crime, you just repent for it.

At 2/14/06 01:52 PM, x_Toadenalin_x wrote: It is my belief that this teaching causes more trouble than it prevents, since it leads to pregnancies and STIs in couples who cannot handle them.

There's also a Catholic rule stating that couples shouldn't have sex until married, which that rule coincides with. If a couple is going to break one, they're logicly going to break the other, so it all works out.

At 2/15/06 05:04 PM, Fenrus1989 wrote:

You also have to follow the rules to get into heaven. You have to have repented your past sinfull ways to get into heaven.

You guys should watch the religious channel more often; they always say that the only thing you have to do to get into heaven is to accept Jesus as your personal savior. You would think that if that was totally wrong that an archbishop would make sure that they stopped lying to people, and stop funding the station if it is going to lie. If this station continues to lie about how to get into heaven, then allot of people are going to go to hell that wouldn’t have to otherwise.

At 2/15/06 05:29 PM, mayeram wrote:

At 2/15/06 05:04 PM, Fenrus1989 wrote:

You guys should watch the religious channel more often; they always say that the only thing you have to do to get into heaven is to accept Jesus as your personal savior. You would think that if that was totally wrong that an archbishop would make sure that they stopped lying to people, and stop funding the station if it is going to lie. If this station continues to lie about how to get into heaven, then allot of people are going to go to hell that wouldn’t have to otherwise.

Accepting Jesus as your personall savior means that you follow what he teaches.
And that is what he teaches.

At 2/15/06 05:02 PM, mayeram wrote: Any heaven that Ghandi wasn’t allowed into is not a heaven I want to live in.

Don't worry about that one. Ghandi is in heaven. For non-Jews, we believe that as long as you follow the Noahide Laws.

"Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods/idols.
Shefichat damim - Do not murder (not including self defense, which IS ok.)
Gezel - Do not steal.
Gilui arayot - Do not be sexually immoral (incest and adultery)
Birkat Hashem - Do not blaspheme.
Ever min ha-chai - Do not eat anything of the body of a living animal (given to Noah and traditionally interpreted as prohibition of cruelty towards animals)
Dinim - Set up righteous and honest courts and apply fair justice in judging offenders and uphold the principles of the last six." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_Laws

) And these are accurate.

"The Talmud also states: "Righteous people of all nations have a share in the world to come" (Sanhedrin 105a). Any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as one of "the righteous among the gentiles". (Same source). This is true, as far as I've heard.

Like what? The Christian church isn’t about anything but control through fear

Well THAT, for one.......

But it's clear you don't know a whole lot, and I have the feeling you're one of those people that won't change their minds no matter what I tell you. So go ahead and believe what you want about the Christian/Catholic Church.........

At 2/14/06 08:53 PM, mackid wrote: It's not much more than a bunch of cells at the end of the second trimester. Once it can function outside the womb without intense intervention (read: full code type intervention), not just an incubator or something, it's not very nice to abort. But I'd give the woman the right to abort if she wants. It's no man's decision on what a woman should do with something inside her body.

Child is viable at 20 weeks, which is five months, middle of second trimester. Denmark cuts it off at 18. Stop speaking on abortion, as you don't know what you're talking about.

No matter what your philosophy on when life begins is, there is an intrinsic inhumanity to allowing the procedure to be performed on a baby who is able to feel it, and suffers terribly. And if it is indeed a child, a man does INDEED have the right to step in. Actually, there's a law suit being brought now in which it's being challenged that a man has no say-so, because the baby has half his DNA, and as it's father he has a right and obligation to protect it. This'll fail, but it's worth noting.

At 2/15/06 05:29 PM, mayeram wrote:

At 2/15/06 05:04 PM, Fenrus1989 wrote:

You also have to follow the rules to get into heaven. You have to have repented your past sinfull ways to get into heaven.

You guys should watch the religious channel more often; they always say that the only thing you have to do to get into heaven is to accept Jesus as your personal savior. You would think that if that was totally wrong that an archbishop would make sure that they stopped lying to people, and stop funding the station if it is going to lie. If this station continues to lie about how to get into heaven, then allot of people are going to go to hell that wouldn’t have to otherwise.

If you accept Jesus as your savior, you follow the Golden Rule "Love thy neighbors as yourself", which is basically the ten commandments in one sentence. If you don't follow those, you didn't really accept Christ as your savior.

As for condoms, the ads alone say they don't block STDs like AIDS with any real accuracy.

As for being a slut, the Catholic church says "no sex til marriage".

Ruling by fear...so bored with this already...they give you good guidlines to follow in your life.

You seem to have no knowledge of Christianity whatsoever.

At 2/15/06 10:35 PM, WolvenBear wrote: As for condoms, the ads alone say they don't block STDs like AIDS with any real accuracy.

Wait, can I pick you up on this?

Firstly, if they do nothing, as you claim, why is the Church opposed to them?

Secondly, they do block STI's to some extent, and hence are better then nothing.

STDs are not some sort of magic sickness, if you keep your fluids from touching the other person's fluids then you are 100% safe. maybe condoms have small holes that sperm cant go through but some STDs can. If thats not the case then you should be safe from STDs unless the condom breaks, or you touch her/him with a part of yourself that isnt protected. like oral sex...

At 2/16/06 12:18 PM, mayeram wrote: If thats not the case then you should be safe from STDs unless the condom breaks, or you touch her/him with a part of yourself that isnt protected. like oral sex...

You can use a dental dam, but the RCC is opposed to that too.