magnetism in schools?

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

Should we teach the theory of magnetism in schools? The theory of magnetism pretty much states that certain substances have an attractional force to eachother. (kind of like gravity, but much stronger)
The reason, the theory states, is because of the way the atoms are arranged it creates a "magnetic field."

The problem with this theory is that it names electromagnetism (a fancy way of combining magnetics and electricity with science) as one of the fundamental forces of the universe (along with gravity and the weak and strong atomic forces)

If that's not a cop out, what is? I think that we should stop teaching "magnetic THEORY" in schools, let's find some alternative ideas to "magnetism"

I mean, christ, have you ever SEEN an atom attract another atom. I haven't, I bet none of those scientists have either. I ask them but they just give me cop outs like "they're too small to see." Christ, just grab a fucking microscope, DUH.

[TheloniousMONK]

Yes! A wonderful idea! While we are at it, lets take out the teaching of time in math classes. Afterall, who's to say the universe doesn't rotate on it's side on Wednesdays and the fourth Monday the 6th of every millennia causing subspatial rifts which distort the proper flow of time? Certainly, you, "Dr," have never actually even see the universe.

I can be just as satirical as you... aren't you proud?

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

By golly, you're right, the theory of time has long been debunked by Einstein. and we still teach it in our schools.

[Ted-Easton]

Good god, sir you've found my formulae! Except it's thursays in rotates on it's side. Wednesday it goes inside out and plays Bingo dressed in a hula skirt and a see through straight jacket.
But there's a lot of controversial things taught in school. What they should do is teach us the alternatives, and let us decide for ourselves which of these so called "theories" sounds correct. Our minds, our opinions.

[Red-XXV]

No one's ever been able to prove democracy works either, and it's sure as hell not a theory put to use in schools, so I say let's do away with teaching democracy, and stick with the example of everyone's favorite leader, El Duce.

[Angryjeff]

jsut because it is a theory doesn't mean it shouldn't be taught. A theory is jsut a collection of facts that create a logical idea. It is the best we have and until someone comes up with something better it should still be taught. BUT make sure that people understand that it has not been 100% proven

[Red-XXV]

At 1/7/03 08:50 PM, Angryjeff wrote: BUT make sure that people understand that it has not been 100% proven

That's the key. Schools teach as if everything is 100% correct, and that closes the door of thought. Teach, but leave other avenues for the people to pursue, and they will go down them.

[NJDeadzone]

i doesn't suppose we think and do english in a school. It are not had spoke alot in our county write. Jim Bob will say what not shouldn't people learn is english.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

100% correct, Hmm... Let's play a game. The first person to name one piece of scientific info that's 100% true will win a big compliment from me.

Evolution is 99% sure, Quantum physics is 99% sure (incomplete as it is, we know that there's more to it)

I don't think it's fair to teach creation as being just as reasonable as evolution when the evidence to creationism is extremely weak, while the evidence for evolution is extremely strong.

It wouldn't be fair to hold them as equals. Furthermore, I don't think that the average student (99.99%) will be affected if they are taught an incorrect theory of the generation of complex life. If aliens land and explain that it was them all along, most people will get over it... most people wouldn't care (well, maybe if it was aliens). Do you think that anyone cared when we found out that Newtonian mechanics was incomplete. How many people today know that newtonian mechanics is incomplete?

Let's teach what we know, not what we don't know. Evolution is for all practical purposes, true until someone finds significant evidence against it.

[TheloniousMONK]

Or how about true when proven true? That makes a little more sense. Yeah, it does.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

It makes sence if you want to be an idiot. You can't prove evolution, you can't prove much of anything. Even if we observe something, that's not proof. Proof is 100% certainty, something that cannot occur.

[TheloniousMONK]

1+1=2. That will always be true. I have no problem having someone cram that down my throat. I have a problem with biologists and some historians telling me to believe anything without first telling me that they have no way of knowing it's true or probably ever being able to tell me it's true.

Curious, that sounds a lot like creationism, eh?

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

I'm speaking of physics, Mathematics is provable, but can you prove that the earth revolves around the sun, can you prove that the sun exists?

[TheloniousMONK]

You stated: "I'm speaking of physics, Mathematics is provable, but can you prove that the earth revolves around the sun, can you prove that the sun exists?"

ex·ist (ĭg-zĭst')
intr.v., -ist·ed, -ist·ing, -ists.

To have actual being; be real.

re·al (rç'əl, rçl)
adj.

Physics: Of, relating to, or being an image formed by light rays that converge in space.

I think I just did.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

PROVE the sun exists, prove it's not an illusion

[TheloniousMONK]

Let me ask you a personal question real quick. Do you believe the sun exists? Be honest.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

I'm not 100% sure, it could be fake. I 'think' it exists, but I've been wrong before.

[TheloniousMONK]

Many times as evidenced by our conversations. Just kidding, you're a great guy and I have a lot of respect for you.

Back to controversy, you say you "think" the sun exists. Well, let me quickly draw an analogous picture for you. I "think" God exists. Now, the reason you think the sun exists is by the fact that there is "evidence" that supports the claim that the sun is real. Like supporting evidence of the existance of a God, it is all circumstantial. The same reasons you believe the sun exists is the exact same reason I believe God exists.

Conclusion: Theists and athiests are quite similar, I've been trying to outline that to you in this thread and others.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

But no one gets mad when we teach that the sun exists in schools. Evolution has just as much evidence, (well, almost as much evidence, the sun is as close to being self evident as you can get without proof)

I don't think that God falls into the same category as do most things in physics. Any evidence of god is insufficient as it will always be explained in terms of some other phenomenon.

God is something that requires a metaphysical proof.

[TheloniousMONK]

Considering that I believe humans are too underdeveloped to even tap into or understand the metaphysical world, I find that highly unlikely. You see, my personal theory is that humans don't have the perspective to understand. What I mean is like how when you go from 3D to 2D, you lose something, correct? You lose information on anything you look at, because you've lost the third dimension. It sounds crazy, but I believe we lack an extra perspective to look beyond things, into the metaphysical world.

Call me a nut, I'm already a hoot. ;)

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

I think you misunderstood me when I used the word "metaphysical"

dictionary.reference.com/search?q=metaphysics

[TheloniousMONK]

http://lookup.atomica.com/atomica/query.pl?s=metaphysical;cbid=0;prem=0;fw=-

One definition is supernatural, which is based off usage. I only know what I read, considering that taking college classes is expensive, and my high school teachers don't get into extensive vocabulary, and my physics teacher last year certainly didn't go outside the range of classical physics. But I still don't understand when you say I misunderstood your ussage. Perhaps you are far greater than anyone on this planet and can elaborate on what you mean.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

I meant one definition, you thought I meant something else, it's simple, you misunderstood me. I'm not calling you an idiot or anything. By the way, that link you posted won't work for me, what does it lead to?

[TheloniousMONK]

Hardcore pornography of gay men on a honey moon.

Har har, just kidding, but I bet I had you double-checking that link there. ;)

Atomica is just an online resource that includes a thesaurus with the dictionary. The dictionary is based off of a more contemporary dictionary, it seems, as I prefer it. It always has nice notes on present day usage and slang which I like. :)

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy that deals with the question "what is real" Other branches include epistemology, "how do we know" and ethics "what is right"

[TheloniousMONK]

Definitions aside, the Bible, while you don't give it sufficient credit simply because the thesis is to "promote God," even though that's not all it is and is actually filled with tons of wise advice from living to economics, states that God will not allow us to see the proof that he exists. It makes sense considering it would undermine the entire purpose of faith... the most important thing God wants from us.

Believe what you want, I can only present the "facts" as I see them in a logical and concise manner. The rest is up to you to explore them or turn away from them in fear.

[Ted-Easton]

Really it's hard to prove anything in thatm way. You can't say something like "the chemical makeup for this is ____" because that's just a description. You can't say anything involving measurment because that's just arbitrary amounts. anything can be taken furthur than it currently is studied. Nothing is certain.
Oh great, now i sound like the X files.

But let me try one anyways. My computer desk exists.
My computer sits on my desk. My desk is wood. My desk withstands the impact of my fist. (ow)

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

does your fist exist? Just because you can feel it doesn't mean that you actually have a fist, ever hear of phantom limb syndrome.

How about this. Existence exists: Proof by contradiction, if existence exists, nothing would exist to experience or observe. There is something that we observe (even if we don't know what it is.
Therefore Existence Exists (it's the A=A of metaphysics)

[Ted-Easton]

As far as I can tell, my fist exists. It can be touched, smelled, seen, heard and tasted (mmm). But all that is is electrical impulses in my brain. I could experience all that if an expert shocked the correct areas of my synapses.
What is real is our mental self. Thought is real. What we think, our opinions, and what goe on in our mind is real.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

In your dreams, do the people in them have thoughts and feelings, if so, how do you know that you aren't just a dream.

Here's another proof: Something is eternal. Something exists, everything that exists has a cause, at some point there must have been a first cause that was not caused by something else. If there was a first cause, something that did not need to be caused, it could not be effected, and therefore still exists in some form.