The N-Machine

[poxpower]

http://www.shoutwire..Energy_The_N_Machine

================
In short, from what I understand ( I may not understand): All energy is not constant, but rather created from space itself, and one way to release this energy is by magnetism and rotation. So, by making a machine that uses magnet's rotation, they can generate 5x the energy it takes to actualy run the machine.
Meaning the machine runs itself AND gives more enegy. Infinite energy ( well as long as you build machines). Apparently the U.S. is trying to slow this the fuck down for obvious economic reasons.
===============

Pretty amazing considering we've "known" about this since 1830!! That's bascialy the entire industrial era, where we've been burning gas instead of using a free-energy machine thing :o Of course I am not really much of a scientist, so does anyone have anything to add to this?

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

I think scepticism is the best mindset to approach this claim... I'm having a hard time believing that his machine is being supressed by the government.

On the other hand, It is the exact same reason I'm not allowed to demonstrate my ability to move objects with my mind and predict the lotto numbers. The government will kill me if I ever demonstrate it or show anyone else how to do it or even go into too much detail on how my amazing telepathic powers work, you'll all just have to trust me though because the government will of course deny all of this.

[poxpower]

At 2/4/06 04:29 AM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote: I think scepticism is the best mindset to approach this claim..

Well seriously, what do you think the governement of Saudi Arabia would do if they discovered that some guy could just shit out full oil tankers :o
They'd be pissed.
In fact, the oil companies is hand-in-hand with the american governement, no one ignores this fact, and its perfectly imaginable that they are blocking new technologies, as was said in the article you have no doubt read, i.e. : no solar power, no hydrogen, no electric cars etc etc.

But that's not really the more important part, I think its really fantastic on a scientific level, unless there's some underlying bullshit here.
I mean, you're just making energy out of void. There's LOTS of that around.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

But the guy hasn't produced anything more substantial than some scifi explanation for his energy source and a conspiracy theory.

Seriously, do you think that the government would pass up on the chance to develop a complete energy monopoly on the world. If this sort of stuff really worked we could set up a power plant in every country and sell it at cost. The world would be totally dependent on us in time.

The government isn't going around silencing scientists in order to sustain 50 more years of Oil based economics.

[HighlyIllogical]

Conspiracy theory bull.

[HighlyIllogical]

This theory of perpetual energy machines has been shown to NOT work.

[Draconias]

The claims about this "N Machine" are false. First of all, the "wafts" in a vacuum described by the article do not exist. Second, the "historical" support is falsely presented and incorrect. Third, the constructed "N Machine" does not do anything beyond what you would expect: a magnet spinning around from a motor produces less energy than it consumes.

As with any fake, non-existant "Invention," the best way to pretend it exists is to claim that the government is suppressing it. The Government has no way and no reason to stop the construction and distribution of something such as this, if it worked. If you build one in your basement, the Govt. won't even know, so how can they "confiscate" it? Also, what's stopping you from publishing the designs on the Internet?

The claims about an "N Machine" are thoroughly and completely fake. The article is a hoax or an intentional scam. The information provided in the article is, on all accounts, false.

[TheloniousMONK]

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. The most theoretically efficient engine is the Carnot heat engine, which is not even possible to build. Perpetual motion and so-called free energy is nothing but a pipe dream.

[jmaster306]

At 2/4/06 03:36 AM, -poxpower- wrote: Pretty amazing considering we've "known" about this since 1830!! That's bascialy the entire industrial era, where we've been burning gas instead of using a free-energy machine thing :o Of course I am not really much of a scientist, so does anyone have anything to add to this?

The n-machine does illustrate a way to make a very efficient motor are valuable, but it's merit as a perpetual motion device (aka produces more energy than it absorbs) is undoubtedly false. The trick that this machine is using is that it impliments magnets to act as a contact free bearing on the drive shaft, thus allowing it to spin in a near frictionless environment. This in turn saves alot of energy from being wasted to friction and heat. The reason why I say this is not a perpetual motion machine is because if the magnatism itself could provide some rotational force to the shaft, then why the hell would we need a motor in the first place? The first experiment needed to prove the viability of such a system would be to create this apparatus and watch it spin by itself or to give it a quick spin and see if it ever stopped. By the virtue that this has never been done leads me to believe that this machine is full of shit.

[GunCrave]

This fabled machine contradicts the laws of thermodynamics and the regulations of entropy, so I'll deem it's made up.

[Demosthenez]

The free energy conspiracy :P

Load of bullshit.

[Raptorman]

So, does the DePlama Energy Corporation buy electricity from the national power grid? Why would they need to they have to if they had their own inexhaustible power source?

[poxpower]

At 2/4/06 12:02 PM, jmaster306 wrote: The first experiment needed to prove the viability of such a system would be to create this apparatus and watch it spin by itself or to give it a quick spin and see if it ever stopped.

they did build the fucking thing.
o.o

Did anyone of you read this article?
And does anyone here have any links to articles that show this as a hoax? I'm ready to believe it is, it sounds pretty amazing, but please stop being a bunch of idiots and actualy show me instead of going "NOOOOOOOO ITS NOT POSSABLE OMG NO EISNTEINN NIOOOTON"

[poxpower]

At 2/4/06 10:31 AM, Draconias wrote: The information provided in the article is, on all accounts, false.

here's a paper made in 1986 that concludes that this machine indeed make more energy than it consumes, for some reason: http://www.rexresear..inchelo/kinche~1.htm
(its pretty technical though...:o )

it does not matter we know why exactly, it just DOES.

the machine: http://depalma.pair.com/ , with lots of articles
:o
Yes, the machine is stupidly simple.

Anyways, I can't find anything that shows this as a hoax and I can find a shitload of things that do indeed suggest this process make more energy than it requires to run. Its just at the experimental stage right now, I don't think we'll be powering our cities with these machines any time soon, but Japan and India are researching it apparently :o

so again, if anyone has articles that show that this is bullshit, share them.

[TheloniousMONK]

At 2/4/06 05:55 PM, -poxpower- wrote: And does anyone here have any links to articles that show this as a hoax? I'm ready to believe it is, it sounds pretty amazing, but please stop being a bunch of idiots and actualy show me instead of going "NOOOOOOOO ITS NOT POSSABLE OMG NO EISNTEINN NIOOOTON"

If you had a basic understanding of physics then you would probably be saying that, too.

"Anybody with even a basic degree in Hyperbolic Topography should be able to understand this." Gotta love those Simpsons.

[AntiangelicAngel]

It doesn't sound quite right. From my college science experience thus far, what I think could be expected to exist sometime would be simmilar to the way a hydrogen cell works... stripping the atmospheric gasses of their electrons and storing them as raw energy. A spinning device could somehow contribute to this process, but "space" sounds a bit sketch.

[AntiangelicAngel]

If you want "free energy," the best you can hope is to get it from the sun. Solar pannels are good energy, and I know people whose houses are powered completely by solar power... the power company pays them.

[x-Toadenalin-x]

I don't fully understand. If the machine is essentially a magnetised flywheel, why hasn't it been discovered before now? Also, why hasn't it caused a much bigger impact than the three articles you have provided? I would expect at least a couple of news stories!

[poxpower]

At 2/5/06 09:11 AM, TheloniousMONK wrote:

If you had a basic understanding of physics then you would probably be saying that, too.

the machine goes against fundamental physic principals.
Doltster.

That's why its awesome, it goes against the law of energy conservation :o Or, it seems to.

Again, if you have any information revealing this to be a hoax, show me.

[Guilty-Biscuit]

This is an old debate, people were discussing this on usenet 20 years ago:

http://groups.google..91d/a065b84cb9b4cacb

Free energy machines have never been proven repeatedly by independant tests, I hope that it is possible but at the moment I'd stear clear of getting involved, there seems to be a few scammers using, free energy machines to get money out of poor saps:

http://www.freeenerg..icitation/index.html

[Montgomery-Scott]

As much as I would like our energy crises to be solved by this amazing infinite motion machine, I am afraid to say, that it is physically impossible. Currently, we produce energy by turning chemical energy trapped either in oil, natural gas, or coal, into electrical energy. We also can convert geothermal energy from reasure trapped in the earth's crust, solar energy, from the sun, kenetic energy from the wind and tides, and we can also smash helium atoms apart to turn their mass directly into energy, as per E=MC^2. These methods all convert different forms of energy into electrical energy, rather innefeciently. In any energy conversion, energy is lost to heat -- entropy. So, it is physically impossible for a machine to make more energy than it consumes to power itself.

[poxpower]

At 2/5/06 05:42 PM, Guilty_Biscuit wrote: This is an old debate, people were discussing this on usenet 20 years ago:

well considering the phenomenon has been discovered 170 years ago...

http://groups.google..91d/a065b84cb9b4cacb

that's not really about the same machine or person or anything :/
Still interesting

Free energy machines have never been proven repeatedly by independant tests, I hope that it is possible but at the moment I'd stear clear of getting involved...

"The Japan Science Foundation, under Japanese government auspices, awarded grants to two universities and one company to produce models of the N machine and to investigate how it works. Kazama Giken Corporation is commercially supplying small N machines for research and educational purposes. Another Japanese company, Panasonic/National, is also pursuing this technology. Shiuji Inomata, Ph D president of the Japan Psychotronics Institute and senior scientist at the Electrotechnical Laboratory in Ibaraki, has been instrumental in sparking the interest of Japan's scientific community in the N machine. "

I don't know, seems to me there's already a couple of them around and working :o They won't power a city block, but they still work by making more energy than they use up.

Again, it sounds pretty genuine to me :o

At 2/5/06 05:59 PM, Montgomery_Scott wrote: As much as I would like our energy crises to be solved by this amazing infinite motion machine, I am afraid to say, that it is physically impossible.

and I am afraid to say that you can't read and are stuck in scientific Dogma just as religious people are stuck in their own.
"its impossible for this and that" only belong in the bible, not in science. If something works, then fuck the current laws of science if they can't explain why it does :o

Observation wins over everything in science.
Not to say that this machines doesn't draw its energy from a yet-unknown source though, but just saying its not because you learned in your second year of high school that all chemical reactions have to balance and that there's only 120 elements or whatever that it'll stay true as science advances. :o

[Shadic-1]

I have no understanding of physics, but If you people are going to claim DIS IS A HOAX WTF GOV'T WUD WATN SURPES S IT UR RETADR DEZ STFU NUB LAWZ OF FIZUKS PR0VE U WROGN At least provide an article proving it's a hoax.

TO the guy who asked what the governments motives are, it's quite obvious to anyone with a half comatose brain- Free energy= Scientists of good will spreading it free and/or taking part of the energy= People stop paying ConEd and other electric services= Economy change= Bad for stockholders and CEOs, and we all know how much more money the rich need in America. Screw the 12% poverty population, downsized workers, and the minimum wage working immigrants, THIS IS AMERICA DAMMIT!!!

[TheloniousMONK]

At 2/5/06 05:01 PM, -poxpower- wrote: That's why its awesome, it goes against the law of energy conservation :o Or, it seems to.

Therein lies the problem, ignoramus. How can it be a law if it is violated? Either the conservation laws are not laws or this mystical fantastic "N machine" is a farce. I cannot believe you insult people for having faith in God while you assert that you can pull energy out of your ass.

[LazyDrunk]

At 2/5/06 08:39 PM, TheloniousMONK wrote:

At 2/5/06 05:01 PM, -poxpower- wrote: That's why its awesome, it goes against the law of energy conservation :o Or, it seems to.

Therein lies the problem, ignoramus. How can it be a law if it is violated? Either the conservation laws are not laws or this mystical fantastic "N machine" is a farce. I cannot believe you insult people for having faith in God while you assert that you can pull energy out of your ass.

Newton's Laws aren't accurate. Maybe within the controlled confines of earth, but not formulaicly. Einstein disproved Newton's "laws" with his general theory of relativity. Have you any idea of the power of magnetism and magnetic fields? Part of the reason why the sun is so insanely hot is some spots is due to twisted magnetic fields.

Like pox said, science isn't set in stone, it's just a set of observations.

[TheloniousMONK]

At 2/5/06 08:44 PM, Geordi_LaForge wrote: Newton's Laws aren't accurate.

Newton's Laws are very accurate at the readily observable scale.

Einstein disproved Newton's "laws" with his general theory of relativity.

Einstein also reinforced the laws of conservation with E=mc^2.

Have you any idea of the power of magnetism and magnetic fields? Part of the reason why the sun is so insanely hot is some spots is due to twisted magnetic fields.

You have to ask yourself is it the charged particles creating the magnetic field or the magnetic field creating the charge.

Like pox said, science isn't set in stone, it's just a set of observations.

Science is both theory and observation. Sometimes theory leads to observation and sometimes oservation leads to theory. But when there is a conflict between the two, it is often theory that wins, unless it is a case where the theory was just a small or special case of a grander theory. While it is possible that this is the case for the conservation laws, I find it incredibly unlikely. I refuse to accept what mainstream science suggests is impossible without a detailed study that confirms these observations reported by your "sources."

[poxpower]

At 2/5/06 08:39 PM, TheloniousMONK wrote:

At 2/5/06 05:01 PM, -poxpower- wrote: That's why its awesome, it goes against the law of energy conservation :o Or, it seems to.

Therein lies the problem, ignoramus. How can it be a law if it is violated?

please promptly shut up with your attempted semantics debate, you know exactly what I meant.

Either the conservation laws are not laws or this mystical fantastic "N machine" is a farce

thanks for all your great proof.

I cannot believe you insult people for having faith in God while you assert that you can pull energy out of your ass.

What's that you say, mister hot air? You have lots of sources about how the N-Machine is just shit?
Or you have lots of sources that explain how it doesn't violate energy conservation?

oh wait, no, all you have is you prejudice and your big mouth :o
I'm assuming nothing more than the fact that there is a machine that somehow seems to make more energy than it consumes.

[Imperator]

Now everyone thinks they're Bill Nye, the Science Guy.......

I ain't even gonna pretend I know what the hell all this is about, I'm terrible at science and math.........(hope Bush doesn't visit NG anytime soon.... ;) )

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

I've read the material a few times, the best I can say for the guy's claims is that I don't think it's unlikely that he's built a device that causes the equipment used to measure friction to produce odd results.

Because his machine uses magnets in some weird ways, the tools that are used to measure the efficiency of an engine that uses traditional methods might not be adequate.

I think some people are abandoning reason, specifically on the subject of government supression. Good theories depend on an abundance of evidence in their favor. Conspiracy theories depend on the absesnse of evidence in their favor. The reasoning is that some conspiracy is supressing the evidence and people conclude that the reason that there is no evidence in support of the claim is not that the claim is untrue, but that there is a conspiracy.

Besides, the government would LOVE to have this power source. Think about how much the military would like to use it to power their submarines or carriers. If this technology has been around for 20 years, I don't think that we'd be spending so much money on the middle east. Furthermore, if oil companies have so much influence in the government to force us into war, why don't the oil companies have access to this power source.

The pieces just don't fit together with this free energy machine.

[poxpower]

At 2/6/06 02:39 AM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote:

Because his machine uses magnets in some weird ways, the tools that are used to measure the efficiency of an engine that uses traditional methods might not be adequate.

it makes energy, that's the only tool you need.
:o
And aparently that's why they won't patent the machines, because they say they aren't equiped to measure the truth of his statement, and I guess they are right in being careful.

I think some people are abandoning reason, specifically on the subject of government supression.

I dunno the exact details of that, but I think its just a matter of the U.S. governement not being interested in that thing, just as they're probably not very interested in wind or solar power, as opposed to finding new places to dig for oil.
But whatever, that's not important since apparently Japan and India are already making prototypes and researching it more. Who cares about the U.S. governement, if they're right and there's no use for this, congrats, if they're wrong, they can buy the technology later on anyways.

Besides, the government would LOVE to have this power source. Think about how much the military would like to use it to power their submarines or carriers.

I dunno, it doesn't sound as powerful as burning oil or whatever :o
You can get a lot of electricity from a tank of gas. There's just not infinite gas lying around.