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At 1/8/03 03:07 PM, calmius wrote:


I am not saying gays are evila and can't contribute to society. My argument is that if they marry and adopt children it's bad for the children because children may learn to be gay from them. And it's bad because homosexuality is NOT natural.

You seem to argue that homosexuality IS natural, can you explain why would it happen? What are it's evolutionary or social advantages? because if something happens, and if its' not bad then it must have something good in it right? Explain

alright, a few things to clear up here....first, even if homosexuality is unnatural, why does that make it a bad thing. Our current farming technicques are unnatural, medicine is unnatural, and yes, even using a computer is unnatural (under this logic, you should get off and save bandwidth j/k).
Secondly, you say its a learned behavior because for one, it can't be genetic, otherwise, you'd have all gay families. This applies only if it is a dominant trait. A recessive trait requires that chromosomes from both parents contribute a recessive gene in the simplest scenario to produce offspring with the trait. The more recessive genes (speaking, offcourse, in traits that require multiple genes to manifest) required to manifest a trait, the less it will appear in the general population.
As for it being a learned behavior, if it were learned, it could be changed, yet all psychotheraputic attempts to undo homosexuality have failed. Furthermore, significant numbers of homosexual teens attempt suicide because the do not want to be gay. They obviously do not want to be gay, so why can't they unlearn it.
Also, there was your argument of evolution, that the purpose of life under this process is to procreate and pass on positive traits. Evolution, though, does not have a purpose, it is simply a mechanism. Mutations occur, triats are produced, and are passed on to offspring by parents that have survived long enough to procreate. Evolution is a purely physical phenomena, and as such, has no more intent behind it than a thunderstorm. It is a mechanism by which we explain how things happen. The purpose to procreate does not exists, it happens. Furthermore, there is no purpose to produce superior offspring. Look at the white siberian tiger. In its natural environment, it stands out because of its color. Compared to normal tigers, it has a disadvantage because its prey can spot it easier and thus have a better chance of escape. Homosexuality, as it were, is an analogous case.

At 2/12/03 12:47 AM, Sirterox wrote: Marriges are held with high religious intent. God shuns gay people and those who do not repent for being gay will burn in hell. I must also that that regular families are breading gay people but gay families will mass produce them. Why do they even have to get marride in the first place? If they want to stay together forever then stay together forever. You dont need a marrige to make that bond.

You know, its people like you that really made me reconsider christianity. I don't know why those who claim to be "the most ardent and faithful of all sheep" always attribute the lowest and basest feelings and tendencies to an omnisicient and onimpotent being. This being has all the knowledge possible in the entire universe, and the best thing it has to do is make lists of everything it doesn't like, no matter how insiginificant it is, that everyone does. If you are going to worship something, at least have the courtesy of give it the credit its due. I'm not religious by any means, i highly doubt the existence of a deity, but if you have to worship something, at least have that something make some form of sense......
ps. will you be burning in hell with the homosexuals and me, an atheist. If not, i don't see how it could be that bad without you there.

Is there any reason in particular why such an incredibly old topic has been revived?
I'll gladly debate it again, but not at the moment.

At 5/8/03 06:20 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: Is there any reason in particular why such an incredibly old topic has been revived?
I'll gladly debate it again, but not at the moment.

I was the one who brought it back. There are a few old topic I wanna share my thoughts on. Hope no one minds.

its sad that this a debate who controls your mind when something unnatural is wrong the only true thing that is natural is death...so what if they want to get married they found happiness in something else less natural so what who is anyone to judge it is a choice to be gay no its a natural feeling inside them that lets them see something else in life church will not allow it becuase a man written bible says so at our present state soppusedly gays and lesbians cannot get into heaven a hundred years ago black people couldnt get into heaven religion has subtle changes over the years one day all this shit will die down i bet alot of males in here really dont have a problem with two chicks getting it on.In our society teen suicides are used to illustrate the social harm cuased by divorce,broken families,child abuse,drugs,schoolyard bullying,rock music,and fantasy role playing games but in fact a third of the teen suicide cases are becuase they are gay and are afraid to live in a world that hates gays...with topics like this forum would you want to be gay NO!...it is a NATURAL feeling that they dont want to have but must deal with it.The only way this can end is to open your views as long as your not gay who cares but if you continue to look at it like a disease many more young gay teen suicides will come along.

There's no reason why they shouldn't be able to marry.

Are ya afraid they'll breed?

Do you let coke heads adopt kids? No.

So why let people addicted to something equally dangerous and deviant?

Cocaine addiction is uncomparable to homosexuality.
Homosexuals aren't addicted to anything, though the argument could be made they are to their own sex, but no more than straight people to the opposite sex.
So, by that reasoning, we shouldn't let straight people adopt because they're addicted to the opposite sex?

why should you reject someone a chance for a normal life because of their sexuality? being gay isnt 'unnatural', you cant help who you love or are attracted to. why shouldnt gay couples be alloud to marry? if it is their choice then let them get on with it, who are we to jugde a persons life or love?

So why let people addicted to something equally dangerous and deviant?

Please Nemmy, if you would be so kind, what is normal? Because then anything which strays from that would be deviant...no?

For over 100 years homosexuality was classified as a mental illness, only because of "PC" morons like yourself was it taken out.

Is that proof enough of homosexuality being immoral and deviant?

Also for over 100 years, women were considered inferior, blacks were considered stupid/inferior, anything that wasn't the WASP way of life was condsideredd unnatural, immoral, wrong, etc.

Just because something wrong has been done for a long time doesn't make it right.

Y don't we leave the gays to decide about if they want to or don't want to get married

Look, if you're defending gay rights I can't help you, it's one thing to be a minority, that's a natural genetic thing, and shouldn't be discriminated, but being gay is a CHOICE, regardless of what you say. Even if you're attracted to the same sex you CHOOSE to have sex with them, and because of this, you are inferior, and do not deserve the same rights as a straight person.

At 5/9/03 07:01 PM, NEMESiSZ wrote: Sure, let them spread AIDS to your town.

Yeah, because all gay people have AIDS (/sarcasm)

At 5/9/03 07:01 PM, NEMESiSZ wrote: Sure, let them spread AIDS to your town.

its sad that you truly believe all gay people have aids your ignorance is amazing are you the kind of people that believe aids originated from a gay couple.

Nem, you still haven't given us any reason. You just say that they're "inferior", but you can't tell us why.

They're inferior the same way drug addicts are inferior.

At 5/10/03 08:37 AM, NEMESiSZ wrote: They're inferior the same way drug addicts are inferior.

The problem with drug addicts is an uncaring goverment contributing to the production and transportation of hardcore illicit drugs you dont blame the victim you blame the oppressor...crack was implanted into the minds of the urban youth.

At 1/6/03 07:17 PM, jazz_mazter wrote: Simply by being gay you violate the very mandate of life, which is to live, populate, expand, and repopulate. That is nature, thus adversly, gay is not natural.

Mandate of life? ill stick to my own mandate thankyou, and if a man loves another man, that is completely their own business, and if nobody else will marry them, then maybe i should start my own church, : the chuirch of rationality and compassion

god i hate people

Gays may be a little unnatural and they're views a little hard to swallow, but does that mean they should be completely given the cold shoulder and outcasted?

I mean some homosexuals can't help that they're gay. They live perfectly normal lives, have normal parents, and have normal friends. For some, homosexuality is only a hormoine inbalance.

And if the Church is supposed to view life the straight way only, than maybe these preists who took a vow of chastitiy should stop molesting the alter boys and set a good example.

Lastly, I just want to say that just because someone is different doesn't mean they should be completely disavowed. I mean, what if your father turned gay. Just one day, BAM, went queer. Would you cease speaking to him and shun him forever?

Think about it!

At 5/10/03 08:37 AM, NEMESiSZ wrote: They're inferior the same way drug addicts are inferior.

Drug addicts aren't inferior. If they are, then they are inferior in the same way that cancer suffers are inferior. Drug adfdicts are victims.

Back to subject. Being gay is not natural, but neither is being a good singer. Should we kill all the good singers in this world?

Although im not a homophobic, I do believe that homosexual shoudnt get married. Call me a conservative, but marriage is between people of the opposite sex. They can still lead a conjoined life. Im not sure about my view on homosexual adopting children though, because there is a big chance that they too shall grow up to be "deviant". Lets not forget all they teasing that theyll get from having two dads.

People dont seem to realize that homosexuality isnt a new thing. The only difference is that we are gradually accepting queers in our society. Before, they just kept in the closet... or got beated to death by an agry family member. I read horror storys about what the nazis did to homos during the war. Lets just say it involved a ruler, a bucket over the head and starving dogs.

At 5/11/03 05:36 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

Back to subject. Being gay is not natural, but neither is being a good singer. Should we kill all the good singers in this world?

That was a pretty good comparison.

At 5/9/03 08:04 PM, NEMESiSZ wrote: For over 100 years homosexuality was classified as a mental illness, only because of "PC" morons like yourself was it taken out.

Well well well. In that case, I think all the fags should have the right to marry.

Fuck being politically correct. I've never even considered it.

Iv just been skimming through this and I have to say
"I love this Topic"
Anyway, back to the topic. Homosexuality cannot be labled as a mental disorder that can be cured. I am positive that homosexuality has been apart of our socioty for thousands and thousands of years. In acient greece and rome for instance, there are fine accounts of men and women sharing the same bed. Now, the argument that would come from this would be "just because it happened thousands of years ago doesn't make it right". Well ok then tough guy, riddle me this, whats your definition of right and wrong?
Right and wrong are moral ideals that are defined by socioty, and since socioty is ever changing, those morals can be shaped too, so in the future who knows.
Anywho, about the church against gays beng married, the catholic church has changed its views on single mothers and has programs that help them out alot, so who's to say that homosexual marriage will be such a taboo in the future. Contrary to popular belief, today people shape the church more than the church shapes people, I think that started around the same time the government decided to have more power/ influence on the people, since the church lost alot of capital during those awfall years of revolution things havent been the same.
back to homosexuality not being a mental disorder, homosexuality has been apart of our culture for years because it is sexual preference. This is no more "wrong" than anyone who likes vanilla over chocolate ice cream...it isn't wrong to love a member of the opposite sex, so why not a member of the same sex...all you have to do is care about someone enough to want to be with them. All I really know is that if homosexualls want to be married, then they should be able too, but its also the churches desission of wether it wants to approve the marriage or not, it has the right to not wed someone.
All it comes down to is how much gays are going to push this and whether the church is willing participate. I think it looks good for the gay community, as long as they keep fighting for there rights.

At 1/6/03 07:17 PM, jazz_mazter wrote: Simply by being gay you violate the very mandate of life, which is to live, populate, expand, and repopulate. That is nature, thus adversly, gay is not natural.

Oh, then I suppose our sole purpose on this earth is to pop out children to keep our species alive? We may as well be mindless rabbits, if that were the case... Ever heard of the phrase "live for the moment"? Life is life.. there is no actual purpose for it... just enjoy it!

At 5/9/03 07:01 PM, NEMESiSZ wrote: Sure, let them spread AIDS to your town.

AIDS is only spread through sexual contact or transfer of blood... being as they're only fucking each other, I fail to see how they could possibly spread AIDS to an entire community... think before you speak, dickhead.

At 5/11/03 10:07 PM, sabrewulf wrote: Homosexuality cannot be labled as a mental disorder that can be cured.

Why not?

I am positive that homosexuality has been apart of our socioty for thousands and thousands of years.

So has schizophrenia. Like other mental disorders, we simply may not have known what it truly was until now.

So the guys like cock more than pussy.

So the girls like pussy more than cock.

So what?

I don't think that homosexuality could be considered a mental disorder based off of the religous-right arguement that "it's a choice."