US troops shooting Canadians

[JoS]

American soldiers fired without warning on a consular vehicle carrying four Canadian diplomats.

Was't good enough your reckless cowboys dropped a 500lbs bomb on our solider ins Iraq, now you are shooting at our diplomats for no reason. Thats a great way to keep allies, by killing them off, just like the Italians.

[BeFell]

That's what happens when you try to go off on your own instead of participating in the melting pot like the other states.

[therealsylvos]

At 2/1/06 08:52 PM, JoS wrote: American soldiers fired without warning on a consular vehicle carrying four Canadian diplomats.

Was't good enough your reckless cowboys dropped a 500lbs bomb on our solider ins Iraq, now you are shooting at our diplomats for no reason. Thats a great way to keep allies, by killing them off, just like the Italians.

this is the type of thing you cant know what happened. U.S will have their story canada will have theirs in this type of case it is very hard to discern the truth

[MortifiedPenguins]

Canadian officials dispute the U.S. version of an event in Iraq and insist that American soldiers fired without warning on a consular vehicle carrying four Canadian diplomats, CBC News has learned.

This is the first paragraph from the page.

They dispute what happened, doesn' t mean it's fucking true.

Seriously Jos, what the fuck is up with you.

Every fucking post you make is fucking anti american.

[JoS]

Who are you going to believe, four high ranking Canadian diplomats who have no reason to lie or a couple of 18 year old US troops who just shot at a car carrying high ranking diplomats. The soliders have a lot more to loose by telling the truth than the Canadians do by telling the truth.

And its not like this is the first time the US has been accused of shooting up cars full of diplomats or the like (remember when they killed the Italian intelligence agent).

What would Canada have to gain by lying about this?

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 2/1/06 08:59 PM, JoS wrote: Who are you going to believe, four high ranking Canadian diplomats who have no reason to lie or a couple of 18 year old US troops who just shot at a car carrying high ranking diplomats. The soliders have a lot more to loose by telling the truth than the Canadians do by telling the truth.

The U.S. military said that, as the Canadian vehicle approached the convoy on the road, American troops used hand and arm signals ordering it to stop. The statement said the vehicle did not slow down so U.S. troops fired what they called warning shots, fearing a suicide bombing attack

That seems to be a pretty logical reason to shoot at it.

And its not like this is the first time the US has been accused of shooting up cars full of diplomats or the like (remember when they killed the Italian intelligence agent).

That was due to thier fault. Likewise, they did they same exact thing that these canadian soldier did.

What would Canada have to gain by lying about this?

What would they lose.

[BeFell]

It's not like Bush is telling his generals, "pump those hosers full of lead every chance you get because they're kind of French and you know how I feel about the French."

Some dumb kids with guns saw a car and thought "OMG BAD GUYS!" then acted accordingly. Sure they were stupid and should be disiplined but I don't see enough evidence of this happening to indicate it is a pervasive problem. Some Italians a few years ago? Yep that's quite the trend.

[therealsylvos]

At 2/1/06 08:59 PM, JoS wrote: Who are you going to believe, four high ranking Canadian diplomats who have no reason to lie or a couple of 18 year old US troops who just shot at a car carrying high ranking diplomats. The soliders have a lot more to loose by telling the truth than the Canadians do by telling the truth.

And its not like this is the first time the US has been accused of shooting up cars full of diplomats or the like (remember when they killed the Italian intelligence agent).

What would Canada have to gain by lying about this?

I'm sure many candains would like to pull out of iraq ir at least maybe these diplomats did and this could be a way to decrease support for the war

[Imperator]

Alright! War on Canada.

I call dibs on raiding JoS's house!!!!!!

[JoS]

Our current government supported the war.

What would they have to lose? Well they would like awfully stupid for lying if it were discovered. As for the US troops who shot at them, if they told the truth that they just shot at the car for fun or why ever they did they woudl get their ass thrown in jail.

And I am pretty sure the only reason we heard about this case or the Italians was because they were not Iraqis. People only really care if it is a westerner that is involved. we dont hear about all the incidents where the US drops bombs on innocent people or in afganistan whenever they killed Northern Alliance members (the Afganistan rebels who were fighting the Taliban).

[therealsylvos]

At 2/1/06 09:10 PM, JoS wrote: Our current government supported the war.

so did ours. does that make you think that teddy kennedy wouldnt drive his own wife into a lake if he thought it would stop the war?

[Imperator]

we dont hear about all the incidents where the US drops bombs on innocent people or in afganistan whenever they killed Northern Alliance members (the Afganistan rebels who were fighting the Taliban).

The hell are you talking about??? That was like the ONLY thing I heard when the Afghan invasion was being reported.

it was always like, "bomb didn't hit right target. 3 americans dead. 12 Northern alliance members dead".

And I remember it happening a LOT too. I kept thinkin, "you'd think they'd fix that guidance problem......"

[JoS]

As to the point about getting us to withdraw from the war. Canada has no troops to withdraw from the war, we didnt support it and didnt send troops or military aid/assests to Iraq. So I dont see how the diplomats lying would garner support for Canada to pull out since we aren't even there to begin with.

As to the point about the Northern Alliance, notice how you added 3 Americans into it. If a bomb feel and killed 4 northern alliance members in the middle of the night would you have heard anything about it? Now if it killed 4 Canadians you heard about it, and there was a massive investigation into it. How big of if any investigations go into incedents where a US troops kills a local?

[MagicalPJ]

At 2/1/06 09:10 PM, JoS wrote:
And I am pretty sure the only reason we heard about this case or the Italians was because they were not Iraqis. People only really care if it is a westerner that is involved. we dont hear about all the incidents where the US drops bombs on innocent people or in afganistan whenever they killed Northern Alliance members (the Afganistan rebels who were fighting the Taliban).

Um . . . between killing US soldiers killing innocent (or at least allegedly innocent) Iraquis and all the suicide bombings, that's just about ALL I hear about Iraq. Then you have two incidents involving Westerners (The Italian agent and now the Canadian diplomats) of course you're going to hear about it.

I'm not saying I'm for the war or anything, but this type of shit happens, you can't go crying conspiracy every time.

[LazyDrunk]

At 2/1/06 09:24 PM, JoS wrote: How big of if any investigations go into incedents where a US troops kills a local?

None, if they kill all of them in the area.

You'll find what you're looking for, if that's what you're looking for.

As to the Canadians being shot at? It happens in a warzone. Sorry, but it happens. If you can't except the haphazardness of it all, don't go there. That's the only real way to prevent this sort of shit from happening.

For the record: It doesn't matter who you are or what you're driving if you fail to yield to US troops. They will kill you. And that's okay.

[JoS]

But its not okay, since the troops failed to do what theya re supposed to do in these situations. They didnt signal them, they just stated shooting.

Why should the Canadians have done anydifferent then every other time. They have driven with convoys before and knew what to do. This time though the gun happy troops decided to take a couple of pop shots at the car.

[Imperator]

As to the point about the Northern Alliance, notice how you added 3 Americans into it. If a bomb feel and killed 4 northern alliance members in the middle of the night would you have heard anything about it?

Yeah, I probably have. I didn't "add" 3 Americans, they friggin died JoS. You can't just make that up.....

And that's the way I remember things going, bombs constantly killing friendly troops accidentaly.

Here, since I KNOW you live to watch Americans screw up, I'll feed your ego:

http://www.rawa.org/s-kill.htm
http://www.rediff.co..s/2001/nov/27ny3.htm

http://eatthestate.o..lineOblivionDead.htm

http://www.refuseand../021202bombings.html

http://www.commondre..dlines01/1028-03.htm

Yes, we are evil. And when we invade your sorry country, you can bet I'll be knockin on your door......with a 500lb bomb........
lollers.....

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 2/1/06 09:31 PM, JoS wrote: But its not okay, since the troops failed to do what theya re supposed to do in these situations. They didnt signal them, they just stated shooting.

The U.S. military said that, as the Canadian vehicle approached the convoy on the road, American troops used hand and arm signals ordering it to stop. The statement said the vehicle did not slow down so U.S. troops fired what they called warning shots, fearing a suicide bombing attack

Why should the Canadians have done anydifferent then every other time. They have driven with convoys before and knew what to do. This time though the gun happy troops decided to take a couple of pop shots at the car.

Have you actually read that link.

All your evidence is bullshit.

It has no factual proof.

Canadian leaders don't think that's what happened. American troops said what happens.

Both sides are at a standstill here on this.

[Imperator]

"Kaboom! They don't know what's happened. They feel they've been hit by a bomb," said Sorensen.

The diplomat said a U.S. soldier came running over to see whether they were all right, and they all got out of the vehicle. It was only at that point that they realized what had happened:

Yes, they don't know what happened. And an American ran up to see if they were ok.......
Thanks for tellin the WHOLE story JoS.......

Lemme guess, he just ran up to collect diplomat dog tags, right???

[ShadowsRevival]

Canadians are dieing? is this true?!? YEA PHASE ONE IS UNDERWAY

in due time followers in due time

[MoralLibertarian]

At 2/1/06 08:52 PM, JoS wrote: American soldiers fired without warning on a consular vehicle carrying four Canadian diplomats.

Was't good enough your reckless cowboys dropped a 500lbs bomb on our solider ins Iraq, now you are shooting at our diplomats for no reason. Thats a great way to keep allies, by killing them off, just like the Italians.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Maybe your diplomats should slow their cars down when they are supposed to so we could avoid warning shots altogether. What is it with you people (Canadians and socialist Italian journalists in particular) who don't live in the United States? You're supposedly so much smarter and so much more civilized, with your free healthcare, great public schools, and your high taxes, and yet you can't even figure out how to slow the fuck down in a war-zone. You people really need to go into more wars so you can remember what it is like.

Anyway, I'm glad no one's hurt.

[JoS]

At 2/1/06 09:35 PM, fenrus1989 wrote: The U.S. military said that, as the Canadian vehicle approached the convoy on the road, American troops used hand and arm signals ordering it to stop. The statement said the vehicle did not slow down so U.S. troops fired what they called warning shots, fearing a suicide bombing attack

Ok, then why do the four senior diplomats in the car say that there were no hand or arm signals, just "warning shots" that both went into the passeneger compartment.

There is no evidence supporting the US version. Basically its your word against ours. It comes down to ceribility.

I hat eto say this but the words of four senior diplomats over rules that of a couple of 18 year old soliders who just shot at said diplomats. The Canadians have no reason to lie, the US troops do.

As for the adding in 3 americans, that came out wrong. I meant to say that it was only in the news because there were 3 dead Americans. If no American had been injuried or killed, do you think it would have been a big of an issue as it was?

[sdhonda]

At 2/1/06 09:04 PM, BeFell wrote: It's not like Bush is telling his generals, "pump those hosers full of lead every chance you get because they're kind of French and you know how I feel about the French."

Some dumb kids with guns saw a car and thought "OMG BAD GUYS!" then acted accordingly. Sure they were stupid and should be disiplined but I don't see enough evidence of this happening to indicate it is a pervasive problem. Some Italians a few years ago? Yep that's quite the trend.

I give this one to you. Like you said, it was a few grunt level soldiers shooting diplomats, not a ****ing war against canada. I geuss the diplomats failed to stop for some reason (or maybe didnt stop fast enough), and the troops shot them. Remember, those guys get alot of suicide bombings/attempts, and didnt want to take their chances. Dosent make it right, but ya.

Anywho, given the profile of this incident, there will be an investigation (probably 2 or joint), and in a week or 2 the whole thng will be sorted out.

[Draconias]

JoS, you're obviously biased against the Americans.

The only thing I see wrong was the aim of the soldiers.

A car is trailing a military convoy. It begins to close the rear of the convoy and the soldiers try to warn it off with signals. Either the driver doesn't see the signals, or refuses to stop. So, to make sure they get the point, you fire warning shots.

The American soldiers fired warning shots. The shots were entirely effective, and the Canadians stopped the car immediately. As soon as the car stopped and surrendered, the Americans checked to see if they were okay. Only one thing went wrong: the soldiers aimed badly, and the bullets hit too close to the passengers.

That's it. The Diplomats weren't driving, they were passengers. Regardless, the entire point of a warning shot is to warn people. The Canadians claim they didn't see visual warnings. That is why you do warning shots.

Everything went perfectly right and deaths were avoided, even though the soldiers cut things a bit close and scared some civvies.

JoS, you appear highly biased against Americans. You've refused to tell the full story, put it in context, or acknowledge any reasonable explanation, thus you seem to be making judgements based on prejudice, not the information at hand. We have no evidence to suggest that the men were trigger happy; you kill people when you're trigger happy, you don't fire warning shots. The Diplomats aren't in a position to claim that no visual signals occurred because the soldiers resorted to warning shots because the Diplomats obviously did not see the visual warnings.

[SolInvictus]

apparently they attempted to warn them (this comes from a Canadian newspaper), but they didn't stop for whatever reason so they fired into the engine block, luckily no casualties, i think Canadians have a thing with attracting American fire

[sdhonda]

At 2/1/06 11:22 PM, shi_huangdi wrote: apparently they attempted to warn them (this comes from a Canadian newspaper), but they didn't stop for whatever reason so they fired into the engine block, luckily no casualties, i think Canadians have a thing with attracting American fire

And the italians.

[SolInvictus]

At 2/1/06 09:51 PM, ShadowsRevival wrote: Canadians are dieing? is this true?!? YEA PHASE ONE IS UNDERWAY

in due time followers in due time

oh you think i didn't see it coming, we're ready for you.

[sportsgrrl84]

At 2/1/06 08:52 PM, JoS wrote: American soldiers fired without warning on a consular vehicle carrying four Canadian diplomats.

In other news, SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD, Colombian rebels 'playing with lives', killing many innocent people, on purpose.

Was't good enough your reckless cowboys dropped a 500lbs bomb on our solider ins Iraq, now you are shooting at our diplomats for no reason.

It was a mistake, we don't do it on purpose.

Thats a great way to keep allies, by killing them off, just like the Italians.

Canada has not been killed off yet, but it's an ugly thorn in America's ass.

jos, for this alot of people dont like you, you make all these non-credible claims about america.

this sounds like a new york times CBS hybrid

first of all they signaled for the vehicle to stop you know why they shot? this is why alot of americans die, they are too friendly and give too many chances, if the canadians were smart enough to stop do you think this would happen?

this sounds like class A suicdie car bomber, approaching ven if told to stop, not giving a reason to advance, and plain stupidity

[JoS]

At 2/1/06 11:09 PM, Draconias wrote: The Diplomats aren't in a position to claim that no visual signals occurred because the soldiers resorted to warning shots because the Diplomats obviously did not see the visual warnings.

Maybe they didnt see them because they WERE NONE.

"The diplomat, who was not named, said no one in the Canadian vehicles remembered seeing anyone signalling to them."

That means everyone, not just the guy doing the interview, all of the people, drivers and passangers.

"The incident took place after the Canadians pulled out of the British compound in the Green Zone, a heavily fortified area in the centre of Baghdad where the Iraqi government office and the U.S. military headquarters are located.

The diplomat said the Canadian vehicle – which had a Canadian flag symbol on its dash – waited for a U.S. convoy of five Humvees to pass. Then it followed at a safe distance at about 20 to 25 km/h for about five minutes. She said Canadian officials often share the road with U.S. military vehicles and saw nothing unusual about the situation.

Unlike the version offered by the U.S. military, the Canadian diplomat told CBC News that the American convoy had pulled entirely off the road and into a staging area behind a barrier.

"Again this kind of thing has happened all the time, according to this official, so the Canadian vehicle now carried on down the road after the convoy had pulled all the way over and off to the side," Sorensen said. "

So now the US is forbidding vehicles from passing them when they are pulled over to the side of the road? and for you Americans 20-25 km/h is about 12-15 mph. I bet all suicide bombers drive about as fast as an old lady in the grocery store parkinglot.