Thrust for a sponsorship standard.

[Inglor]

note, this isn't a promotion for anything, seriously, so please don't mention any specific sponsors.

I do believe that we need some sort of standard to make sure people are not underpaid. I would like the ones among you who got sponsored (if the sponsor allows it (and AG does)) to reply with how much you got paid (and when) so others could come in and know if what they're getting is fair by their sponsors.

The idea is to later on is to try and integrate it into the newgrounds submit page, there are also a lot of other ideas that are far more ambitious, but I can't really say anything about that.

Please specify:

Game Name:
Game Link:
Rights:
Sponsorship:
Extras:

The game name is the name of your game that got sponsored.
Game link is the Newgrounds link to that game
Rights are the rights you get to keep, like authorship, copyright, and such, as well as stuff like exclusivity of sponsorship
Sponsorship is how much you got paid, either the original deal or include bonuses.
Extras are other things you would like to add.

Please do not express your opinion about a specific sponsor, you may add in extras wether or not you're pleased with it or not, but this thread isn't really here to glorify or to badmouth one sponsor or the other.

[Inglor]

oh, and please specify wether or not it got sponsored when it was new, or was it sponsored after some time and submitted without the sponsorship. that's a biggie because of leechers.

[Rustygames]

hmm could be cool. An "Advanced submitters page" or something. It would definatly increase awareness of these kind of things. I think you should talk to tom about it

[Kenney]

Game Name: Mario's Time Attack: Remix
Game Link: http://www.newground..m/portal/view/255466

Rights: I kept all of them
Sponsorship: $250
Extras: It's not possible anymore to use copyrighted material

Game Name: Medivoid
Game Link: http://www.newground..m/portal/view/280084

Rights: I kept all of them
Sponsorship: $350
Extras:

Game Name: Defend Your Computer
Game Link: http://www.newground..m/portal/view/258071

Rights: I kept all of them
Sponsorship: $1000+
Extras: I didn't get anything thanks to nice Mr.Moose >:(

[dz2001]

Game Name: StarCraft Flash Action 3
Game Link: http://www.newground..m/portal/view/255273

Rights: I kept all the rights
Sponsorship: 600$

[dz2001]

oh and the game was sponsored right after I submitted it to ng :D
before it got 5k views :P

[Phantasmagor]

Game Name: Freds Adventure
Game Link: http://www.newground..m/portal/view/253311

Rights: I kept all rights
Sponsorship: $75
Extras: Only recived 75 as the game had already been submitted and had gotten Front Page as well as more than 50k views

Game Name: Bums : Back to school
Game Link: http://www.newground..m/portal/view/277492

Rights: I kept all rights
Sponsorship: $700, spit 50/50 between me and lilg.
Extras: game was going really bad on NG getting a lot of bad feedback but still recieved sponsorship a few days after submission from AG

[forsterbar]

Game Name: The Rice Hat Warrior
Game Link: http://www.newground..m/portal/view/274709

Rights: I kept all of mine
Sponsorship: $650

In regards to that earlier comment regarding copyright... it's illegal to use copyright material without permission and/or making the relevent payments in all situations. Every single movie on NG that uses music without the express permission of the copyright owner is breaching copyright law.

[Inglor]

At 1/9/06 08:36 AM, forsterbar wrote: Every single movie on NG that uses music without the express permission of the copyright owner is breaching copyright law.

same goes for sprites

[Rustygames]

not many people seem interested then

[Inglor]

At 1/9/06 08:58 AM, Ninja-Chicken wrote: not many people seem interested then

in what?

[Rustygames]

At 1/9/06 09:05 AM, Inglor wrote:

At 1/9/06 08:58 AM, Ninja-Chicken wrote: not many people seem interested then

in what?

can you not figure out what im talking about? Really?
I mean not many people seem interested in these changes

[Neolight]

This is an excellent idea. When do you think it can be implemented?

[Luis]

Hmmm well the intent is good i suppose but i just dont see the effectiveness of this. I think that it makes the sponsoring scene feel very whoreish and money driven when all we start caring about/discussing is how much money so and so paid me.

But if theres one thing that I'm glad was brought up is the copyright issues... one of the drawbacks of this surge of sponsors is the fact that some people are going to seriously get sued as the sponsorships reach the higher paytables and people begin making mini careers of being sponsored for the rest of their flash lives.
I think if anything comes out of this sponsorship standard it should be to have these sponsors take the responsibility to really discourage people to use copyrighted material in things that get sponsored.

Another issue is the fact that as people become regularly sponsored they are voiding their educational version rights. Its still VERY unlikely that macromedia would go around hunting for 'kids' violating the educational versions agreements but its something to keep in mind for those that really plan to have the rest of their stuff sponsored.

Personally i think newgrounds should have done a better job in stating all that out. Granted the newgrounds prize is a fairly negligible amount but with the amount of flash artists that come through the site i think newgrounds could have really set the example of being really informative about this new trend.

[Rustygames]

At 1/9/06 09:46 AM, _Luis_ wrote: Most informative post ever

Wow that is quite alot of stuff I didnt think about. I bet every flash author on this site has borken at least 1 law.

[Inglor]

At 1/9/06 09:46 AM, _Luis_ wrote: Hmmm well the intent is good i suppose but i just dont see the effectiveness of this.

The effectiveness is in making sure people don't get sponsored for lower than they deserve, what they "deserve" is a range, but 100$ for a really good game isn't fare and 20000$ isn't reasonable.

I think that it makes the sponsoring scene feel very whoreish and money driven when all we start caring about/discussing is how much money so and so paid me.

Yeah, in a way, but I believe that if we make it stable and regulated it won't be so "whorish", people shouldn't have to "whore themself out" to get paid well, and moreover, people should be alert about being underpaid.

But if theres one thing that I'm glad was brought up is the copyright issues... one of the drawbacks of this surge of sponsors is the fact that some people are going to seriously get sued as the sponsorships reach the higher paytables and people begin making mini careers of being sponsored for the rest of their flash lives.

oh really? how do you figure that, as long as tax is being paid (or not for people without an income above a certein sum), everyhing is ok, hmmm

I think if anything comes out of this sponsorship standard it should be to have these sponsors take the responsibility to really discourage people to use copyrighted material in things that get sponsored.

I agree, a sponsor I work with no longers sponsors stuff that has copyrighted material like mario anymore, we count on the authors about music but we encourage using AP music anyway.

Another issue is the fact that as people become regularly sponsored they are voiding their educational version rights.

you mean the ones with educational version, not a lot of people have that since it's not that easy to get. It is not uncommon for a sponsor to buy a flash author a full version of macromedia flash.

Its still VERY unlikely that macromedia would go around hunting for 'kids' violating the educational versions agreements but its something to keep in mind for those that really plan to have the rest of their stuff sponsored.

Yeah, I understand the problem, thanks for bringing that up, it is being addressed though, sponsors usuelly keep off illegal stuff.

Personally i think newgrounds should have done a better job in stating all that out. Granted the newgrounds prize is a fairly negligible amount but with the amount of flash artists that come through the site i think newgrounds could have really set the example of being really informative about this new trend.

I believe so to :)

[Luis]

At 1/9/06 09:56 AM, Inglor wrote:

:as the sponsorships reach the higher paytables and people begin making mini careers of being sponsored for the rest of their flash lives.

oh really? how do you figure that, as long as tax is being paid (or not for people without an income above a certein sum), everyhing is ok, hmmm

This comment was more in relation to the using copyrighted stuff. Yeah its perfectly possible and allowable to just make a career out of sponsorees.
But actually you bring up a good point about the income part. Once you surpass a certain amount both in the freelance and sponsorship world you must file taxes for it. This obviously applies more to the us people than others but Uncle sam is an asshole and he will find you if he sees that your making a buck without giving some back. Trust me i speak from experience!

[23450]

Should we not have limitations on being overpaid???

[Inglor]

At 1/9/06 10:37 AM, 23450 wrote: Should we not have limitations on being overpaid???

if someone agrees to overpay you and he isn't very new at this, you should take a second look at what you've got, people won't "overpay" you unless you have something better than you think

[DBarbarian]

I think this is a great idea. Flash game authors are often underpaid as there are numerious developers who are new to the field who are willing to sell their services for $100 or so. In fact, I've seen people compete for jobs that offer around $100 when the payment should obviously be a lot more.
The point is, that with so many flash authors willing to sell their work for prices around $50-$100 brings down the whole flash industry. Why would anyone purchase your game for more than $500 when they can get a similar one for $50.

What Inglor doing here is a great thing. It's not common to see a sponsor offering to give a developer the money that he or she deserves. Through this, awareness of the worth of games will increase. I know that when I first started, I had no idea what a fair price for my games were. I would sell games for $50--$100 when I could have gotten $500-$1000 for them, all because I didn't know better.

[Inglor]

At 1/9/06 06:07 PM, DBarbarian wrote: What Inglor doing here is a great thing.

thanks for the post, but I prefer people don't mention specific sponsors here :)

[23450]

At 1/9/06 11:07 AM, Inglor wrote: if someone agrees to overpay you and he isn't very new at this, you should take a second look at what you've got, people won't "overpay" you unless you have something better than you think

Im talking about how your site can offord to pay more then other sites. A cap would not be a bad idea.