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Here is the definition of an element:

A substance that cannot be broken down into different kinds of matter.

Fire: Can be broken down into light and energy
Earth: Can be broken down into silicon, carbon, and probably every element in
the periodic table exists to some degree in the earth's crust though I am
not for sure on that.
Water: Hydrogen and Oxygen. I would expect that you would at least know that.
And the notion that all liquid substances = water...there are 4 year olds
that have a better chemical sense than that!!!
Wind: Air contains oxygen, nitrogen, and some other elements I forget, and wind
is obviously moving air.

I would highly suggest an introductory course in chemistry, it will open your eyes to a whole new world of information to you.

You missed the whole point didn't you
He wasn't talking about chemistry. Not was he talking about the scientific elements of matter.
Symbolic elements of nature are found in many religeons.

Such a false sence of securiy humans find in things like science and religeon. Fear of being in the unknown is very strong. Though it only exists in the ego.

Let go and see the truth. Clear your mind and and relax, breath in and out slowly. Forget self, forget everything that happened today, all worries and merge with the earth.

Find joy in being and the world will be a better place.
We decide if we are happy or not. So just let go.

Damn this happens every post

At 1/11/06 01:05 PM, ScaryDeadGirl wrote:

At 1/11/06 12:54 PM, jlwelch wrote: In reality, they are emotionally disturbed attention seekers (just like emos, goths, and feminists)

I got a real kick out of that BS. I should thank the emotionally disturbed for my right to vote then. There are attention seekers and disturbed individuals in all circles. They're no more whiney then the next person it's just society choosing a brandish a group that can be pointed out easily as negative. The people you're refering to are attention whores and most of the time they look just like everyone else.

Let us examine the emo shall we? The emo dresses in all black and does just about anything he can to go against the social norm. This attracts negative attention from peers of course, but it is the attention they relish in. However, their main form of attention seeking is cutting themselves and acting like they didn't mean for anyone to see. This results in concerned parents and teachers and what not and a wealth of attention for the emo.

A goth is an emo who doesn't cut himself and sometimes does not exhibit the gay ass hair.

I must correct my previous statement to say MODERN feminists (thanks for pointing that out.) While Susan B. Anthony and other feminists of those times were important for our society, they are no longer necessary today. Women have all the same rights as men (sometimes even more since colleges have been known to select them over males with slightly higher G.P.A.'s) and yet they are still bitching about male oppression and what not. Ask a modern feminist for ONE specific example of what they are fighting for or what they hope to accomplish and she will give nothing but vague responses like "male oppression" and "women rights". After living in Utah, Illinois, and now attending college in Indiana I have noticed that in EVERY case, the modern feminist is always the least memorable or least likely girl to get attention without resorting to such extremes. Hence, my hypothesis, modern feminists are attention seekers.

The wiccan seems to display many gothic characteristics, few of them cut themselves, and the only thing that seperates them from goths is their use of religion as an excuse.

The American Psycology Community has a name for these kinds of behaviors and it is "Histrionic Disorder". I am no psycologist, but I recognize annoying patterns when I have to deal with these people in my classes.

Reading material:

http://www.ncbi.nlm...59&dopt=Abstract

http://www.psycholog..ions/histrionic.html

http://www.ptypes.com/dramatic.html

i don't like to go with many social norms... Most of them to me seem stupid
i don't understand why the human race can't see past the huge block it's putting over it's eyes.

At 1/11/06 03:53 PM, rEvolution27 wrote:

You missed the whole point didn't you
He wasn't talking about chemistry. Not was he talking about the scientific elements of matter.
Symbolic elements of nature are found in many religeons.

Perhaps he is of a different denomination then, because the wiccans I have spoken to a few years ago believe that they are the PHYSICAL elements. If they are religious elements to other denominations or whatever then I guess that makes sense and renders this whole aspect of the discussion pointless.

:: Such a false sence of securiy humans find in things like science and religeon.

A false sense of security found in science and religion? I agree with the religion half of the statement, but considering that science is objective, has proven its points in the physical realm and has multiple applications of said points such as the computer & internet you are using now, I would have to assume you are another one of those people who has a disdain for anything to complicated for you to understand.

Fear of being in the unknown is very strong. Though it only exists in the ego.

Fear of the unknown? Most of the people I work/talk with including myself do not fear the unknown but are readily eager to explore it once a plan is set. Though, that is likely to be because I am from a science/engineering school.

Let go and see the truth.

Which is? Let go of...?

Clear your mind and and relax, breath in and out slowly. Forget self, forget everything that happened today, all worries and merge with the earth.

.........!?!?!?!?!?!?

Find joy in being and the world will be a better place.

I am very happy with what I do already.

We decide if we are happy or not. So just let go.

I agree but what the hell does this have to do with anything!?!?!

Damn this happens every post

What you get off topic?

At 1/11/06 03:32 PM, jlwelch wrote: Earth: Can be broken down into silicon, carbon, and probably every element in
the periodic table exists to some degree in the earth's crust though I am
not for sure on that.

You won't find manufactured elements like Einsteinium in the earth's crust I guess.

At 1/11/06 04:04 PM, rEvolution27 wrote: i don't like to go with many social norms... Most of them to me seem stupid
i don't understand why the human race can't see past the huge block it's putting over it's eyes.

No one is saying you have to go against social norms. If you do not want to do something that seems normal of the people around you don't do it. If you want to do something that is not normal do it. Hell, being the nerd that I am I returned to campus a few days after Christmas and spent the last week and a half of my break working through homework assignments to get ahead and continuing my research in the Chemistry Department. Does that sound like a social norm? I even have friends (guys) that are straight and wear pink shirts because they think it is stylish.

Not going with a social norm does not mean dressing in black, having an emo hair-cut, turning everyday events into emotional events like emos do (Histrionic Disorder), whining about stupid crap, cutting thyself, developing a BS religion in order to claim your actions are religiously justified and not behavioral problems, seek attention, listen to Manson or any other such activity that irritates the hell out of people and clearly indicates you have behavioral and/or psycological issues.

At 1/11/06 04:12 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 1/11/06 04:04 PM, rEvolution27 wrote: i don't like to go with many social norms... Most of them to me seem stupid
i don't understand why the human race can't see past the huge block it's putting over it's eyes.

No one is saying you have to go against social norms. If you do not want to do something that seems normal of the people around you don't do it. If you want to do something that is not normal do it. Hell, being the nerd that I am I returned to campus a few days after Christmas and spent the last week and a half of my break working through homework assignments to get ahead and continuing my research in the Chemistry Department. Does that sound like a social norm? I even have friends (guys) that are straight and wear pink shirts because they think it is stylish.

Nice to meet a fellow nerd... I thought the species was dieing out...
Sometimes i like to wear black all black like i'm going to a funeral... I think black is a very calming colour. Other times i like bright flowery hawian shirts. They keep the energy up.

Somethines you just have to forget about material things and all the masks people put infront of themselves.. there's always a real human behind them...

Not going with a social norm does not mean dressing in black, having an emo hair-cut, turning everyday events into emotional events like emos do (Histrionic Disorder), whining about stupid crap, cutting thyself, developing a BS religion in order to claim your actions are religiously justified and not behavioral problems, seek attention, listen to Manson or any other such activity that irritates the hell out of people and clearly indicates you have behavioral and/or psycological issues.

At 1/11/06 03:57 PM, jlwelch wrote: Reading material

-You made a rash generalization and are still making them. There are two types of feminists, the kind that you are refering to are the ones that think Women deserve more than a man. The other believes in equality for the sexes. Both exist in MODERN times.
-All the cutter's I've ever know were not what we consider now as "emos". This is a new pop term that basicly means nothing. Aside from jokes mocking the sillyness of the term and whiney people, those that use it seriously in an argument really need to rethink things. The people that announce they abuse themselves repeatedly (in a variety of ways) are simple attention whores. People with a real cutting problem never want to let the public in on what they do. It's just as much a psycologicle issue as anorexica for example. The style of dress shouldn't even come into play here. Emotional hardcore was a music trend, and somehow it turned into a term for people that don't know they have it good.
-Goths dress differently to express themselves and are generally not the depressed, life hating weirdos that cartoons portray them as. How do I know? I went to an art school, which has a pretty big population of the oddly dressed and eccentric from all accross the country.
-Just like not all "jocks" are bullies.
-Just like not all smart people are introvert and unsocial nerds.
-Just like not all black people are criminals.... etc.

Whiney people come in all shapes and social circles. Your references are today's "cool things to hate on". The term "attention whore" doesn't single out a group in order to express the negative actions of a few very sad people. Or if that doesn't work we culd all just make up a new term for that. It's nickle and dimeing for sure here, my main argument was more for the feminists and goths just to be clear, but also to say that some people do genuinly have a self abuse problem, and they seem to get lost amongst all the wannabees

Eh I forgot to ad I don't know any wiccans here that cut themselves. Really. The only girls that cut themselves for attention I've know were the same ones obsessed with being popular in highschool, which means they desperatly followed every social change when it came to being "normal and trendy". Being wiccan isn't all that cool and trendy in today's standards.

At 1/11/06 01:17 PM, Blackmagic wrote: I dont know a lot about it other than its another one of those things that Christians believe is the sole thing that is making kids into non-christians.

HAHA.

Maybe it's like that where you come from, bub. From what I've seen, though, no one takes Wicca seriously. It's a joke to be scoffed at in almost every circle, save for the wiccan's.

Christians don't take it any more serious than the rest of us.

At 1/11/06 03:53 PM, rEvolution27 wrote: Symbolic elements of nature are found in many religeons.

You mean when humans try to personify nature? You mean when the foolish give foolish human emotions to things like the sun, or a campfire, or winter?

Yea. I dig that, too.

Forget self, forget everything that happened today, all worries and merge with the earth.

No, the won't. Take me, for example.

I'm getting evicted. My new job isn't working out, and I might be unemployed before the end of the week. All the pansy-ass 'breathing in and forgetting everything' won't make the state courts decide to let us keep our house, will they?

Maybe your sun-god pays the bills, for you. I've no such entity, to carry out any such task. Forget self? Forget the problems of the day? Do not fret, or concern myself with my own life?

You're just a common coward, seeking shelter from your life's problem in some simplified, dumb-downed mind-set. How are you any different from the Christian that is complacent about his life, simply because they practice extensive prayer?

Fools forget themselves, brother.

Im open to the idea expressed by wiccans, but I would like to know if they have any evidence for their ideology, or if they just find it to be fun.

Religion is always going to be bashed by the majority of people in a site like this, so this post isn't surprising, but still, what the fuck people?

I am wiccan and proud of it. Sure, many wiccans are just disturbed teenagers acting out, seeking attention. But if we choose to only look at a minority of people and judge entire religions by that, than all religions would be screwed. Muslims get the maniacle terrisot killers image, Christians get the bigoted assholes who like to kill everything thats not christian, Jews get the image of being money hungry bastards, Hindus get the image of basing thier religion completely around persecution (the castes), and buddhists, i don't know. My point is, all religions will have followers who they wish they didn't have.

Wicca as it is practiced today isn't ancient. Its called a NEO-pagen religion for a reason; its a modern recreation of an older pagen religion. That said, talking about the practices of "Wicca" is as hard as talking about the practices of Christinanity, only worse. Just as there are a ton of diffrent sects of Christianity, there are many sects of Wicca. Except beyond them, many people are electic Wiccans, meaning they dont conform to any particualr sect, but just go with what they believe is true, within the basic wiccan premise. I am an electic wiccan. I dont know many wiccans that believe that earth wind, fire and water are the true physical elements, so your friend may be in the minority. I also had never heard the explantion involving gases, liquids, solids, and energy, but i think its a facinating idea and I'll consider it in the future.

I'm not a very religious wiccan, but i dont try to observe the sabbats, because it feels right to me. One of the center beliefs of all wiccans is that diffrent religions can be right. That Christians believe in Christ and Heaven and such, and their afterlife will thus be heaven. I don't know, I have difficulty getting my mind around this concept, but what comes of it, is that wiccans are never supposed to protheletys. If you would like to talk about wicca with me, thats great, I'd love to, although there are probably better people to talk to.

And all this coming from a total computer geek

i think it gets a bad ra[ because high school goths practice a fake form of it. the actual religion sounds kind of interesting.

I think of Wicca and it's godesses, just valid as any religion...... obsolete in a modern world where myths are redundantly outmoded and offers nothing useful to humanity and humanity's progress. in 5 more years Religion will be abandoned.

Wicca comes from the 1950s when a guy (Gerald Gardener) claimed to have recorded the secrects of an ancient witches coven. It had a lot less to do with nature, and a lot more to do with sex. Wicca has evolved from there into a lot of different things, and most people who identify as being wiccan today weren't born and raised that way.

If you want something that has real old roots, look into ceremonial magic and the Golden Dawn. Then you'll get a good taste of Alyster Crowly, who raped little boys, performed ceremonial masterbation, and wore a cone on his head so he could think better.

Score one for the magic users!

Bullshit and lies hidden in the veils of religious secret. The day a witch turns me into a fucking frog is the day I believe in it. The few types of religious magic that aren't complete bullshit can easily be proven (meditation to gain clarity, a practice of Buddhism and Satanism), why can't Wiccan magic be proven?

Personally, I myself am an Atheist, but an Ex-Wiccan also. I have to say that there are a lot of things like bashing the "being" of magick. Some of the things that are there are for understanding for the people of 70 years ago, when the religion was being repopulated as "Wicca" or "WitchCraft"

I learned some good things from Wiccan actually, Meditation, Dream Travel, Tarot Cards and other various things, and the magick I worked half of the time.

To Christians-

Don't believe in Magick? You should, because in the bible, Moses turned his staff into a snake, and ate the two other staff-snakes whom the Egyptian High Priests transformed them. What had transformed the Staffs then, if the Egyptians we're Pagan? Magick.

That is if you want to believe in the Bible as the "Word of God"

Personally, I find the religion to be a little far fetched, but some good points, like most religions.

PROS - Meditation, Magick (it does work, about half of the time) and Peace Twards Others

CONS -The idea of a God, Goddess and more. (Personally, if there was a GOD or GODDESS, they would speak to us and enlighten us) Discrimination (If you are Wiccan, you will get frowned upon by Family, Friends, Co-Workers and others)

That is my out-put.

At 1/8/06 05:43 PM, arz756 wrote: I think Wicca is stupid because they celabrate Christmas by burning a log and think they can perform feats of magic. People have glorified a stupid idea that most people who pratice it no almost nothing about it.

That would be Yule. It's what Christmas is based off of, that's where Christmas gets the majority of it's traditions from. So you could say that Christians celebrate Yule with Mass and a Tree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

My high school had an English teacher that turned out to be wiccan. He was probably the coolest guy in the English department. He moved to another school after a couple of years, because he was only temporarily filling in for some staff because about 4 teachers were pregnant at once.

I say power to wiccans. They celebrate a religion they want to to celebrate, and their right to do so should be respected.

At 1/8/06 06:08 PM, T-H wrote: There was a girl at my last school who used to claim she was one, I'd dubb it as more of a cult than a religion, there are a load of sites that market "spells" and shit for them.

There's a LOAD of sites that sells crosses or pictures of jesus. Does that make christianity a cult?

Wicca is more or less the same as any religion, just more populistic. It can be "combined" with any other religion, at least according to some members, and that, according to me, make it even less probable to be a "correct" religion.

At 1/11/06 01:55 PM, Facetious wrote: Errrrr isnt that slightly racist
wat about jews and hindus etc

Huh? From what I know, wicca hasn't anything to do with jews. And hindus are not a "race", if the term can be applied to humans at all.

i respect them for not being rude ignorent and intolerant republican conservitives.... like those on this thread who are against wiicans, its not the internet, its them, their beliefs, so STFU you SELF CENTERED ASSHOLES

At 1/11/06 06:04 PM, ScaryDeadGirl wrote: Eh I forgot to ad I don't know any wiccans here that cut themselves. Really. The only girls that cut themselves for attention I've know were the same ones obsessed with being popular in highschool, which means they desperatly followed every social change when it came to being "normal and trendy". Being wiccan isn't all that cool and trendy in today's standards.

cut your self becuase your MENTALLY DEPRESSED, ok, but to become part of a clique? those are the true posers. im Emo, and i wish i wasnt. calling be a pussy for that, is no better than calling a retard... a RETARD.

At 8/26/07 03:13 AM, Sajberhippien wrote: There's a LOAD of sites that sells crosses or pictures of jesus. Does that make christianity a cult?

HELL YEAH! if i wernt a demonologist, i'd say AMEN!

At 8/26/07 03:30 AM, Lookaz wrote:

At 8/26/07 03:13 AM, Sajberhippien wrote: There's a LOAD of sites that sells crosses or pictures of jesus. Does that make christianity a cult?

HELL YEAH! if i wernt a demonologist, i'd say AMEN!

So there's this guy, and there's a guy who bumps a year-old thread to say "I'm a Wiccan, stop bashing my beliefs! My religion is so complex!". Way to fight the stereotype of Wiccans as a bunch of insufferable self-victimizing assholes who only joined a religion to be able to call both Christians and Atheists stupid.

I mean seriously. I realize that most Wiccans are probably okay folks, but can we at least get ONE Wiccan in the entire Internet that doesn't go "waah waah, Christians are so hateful towards our religion just because they hate our magicK and ritualZ, never mind that our religion is vaguely over 50 years old, I'm deluded into thinking that we're directly related to ancient shamanistic traditions, even though we're not!"

It has more religious holidays than most religions. Unfortunatly they aren't recognised as a "genuine" religion, so I couldn't claim time off school when I tried to have Lammas off.