A States Right?

[MarijuanaClock]

In a country where freedom is valued above all, and where self determination is key, is it ethical to deny a state the right to seced from the union?

If a state's people are unhappy with the way they are governed, is it not there duty to rebel? Is it right to betray the traditions America was founded on?

If a state wishes to leave, what right does any union of states have to subjegate it?

Perhaps less focus on America itself would add a much valued perspective. Take the former Yugoslavia for example, do you believe the nations that made it up should be forced together? Should the Serbs be able to subjegate others in the region? I think not.

So if self determination is accepted, in fact activly supported by America, then why would America not follow its' own belief?

[VasIndustries]

It certainly should based on the philosophies America is based on.

You should read "Civil Disobediance" by Thoreau. It is short but excellent.

[NJDeadzone]

when each state ratified the constitution, they in turn signed a contract, a long long, long long long, long long long long long long, long contract which before Civil War, gave the right to secede, but times are different, the states can govern themselves to an extent, but if one were to secede, then it becomes a national issue however you see it.

[TheNewAuk-defiant]

At 12/27/02 11:53 PM, MarijuanaClock wrote: In a country where freedom is valued above all, and where self determination is key, is it ethical to deny a state the right to seced from the union?

If a state's people are unhappy with the way they are governed, is it not there duty to rebel? Is it right to betray the traditions America was founded on?

If a state wishes to leave, what right does any union of states have to subjegate it?

Oh puh-leeease. By that reasoning the Civil War should have never been fought. You really need to rethink your laughable argument. Or are you pro-slavery or something? What if I decide I don't like the United States? Should I be allowed to declare my property a soverign nation?

[MarijuanaClock]

At 12/28/02 02:40 PM, TheNewAuk wrote:

Oh puh-leeease. By that reasoning the Civil War should have never been fought. You really need to rethink your laughable argument. Or are you pro-slavery or something?

Yes, becuase I believe in self determination I'm pro slavery. Don't be ignorant.

What if I decide I don't like the United States? Should I be allowed to declare my property a soverign nation?

Self determination refers to freedom of the people of a given area to determine their own political status, not a person. And again, don't be ignorant.

[karlman99100]

Great! lets say Texas left the Union. And decided to have the same constitution and blah blah as The rest of the US so they sliced up texas and said this is State A, State B, Etc and state A left the Lone Star Country this kept on happening...... Mr Jones leaves his home at 9:45 Am walks down the street into Mr Smiths space The invader is shot to death..... See how it all breaks down in theroy... Anarchy man anarchy...

[TheNewAuk-defiant]

At 12/28/02 07:43 PM, MarijuanaClock wrote:

At 12/28/02 02:40 PM, TheNewAuk wrote:

Oh puh-leeease. By that reasoning the Civil War should have never been fought. You really need to rethink your laughable argument. Or are you pro-slavery or something?

Yes, becuase I believe in self determination I'm pro slavery. Don't be ignorant.

First of all, that pro-slavery comment wasn't serious, it was made half in jest in attempt to show the absurdity of your argument. Secondly, I am not ignorant. My reasoning is perfectly sound. You say a state has the right to leave whenever it wants. With that right, a state can determineit's own laws. By that reasoning South Carolina in 1861 and other states later should have been allowed to secede from the Union peacefully, you say that the other states have no buisness to dictate the actions of another state. If this principle were followed, there would be no civil war, the Confederacy would still exist, and slavery would be legal in half the nation. This country was founded on a few pasic principles that must never be allowed to be infringed, regardless if there is a consensus one way or another in a certain area. People have the right to their own life, and to liberty, and to the presuit of happiness, among a few other things. (Check the Constitution for more.) If a state takes away any of those rights from people, it is the duty of the other states to step in. Also, if any state were allowed to secede whenever it so chooses, this country could very well not be around today. As a whole, the U.S. is one big, powerful, prosperous nation. But if it were to break up into several small nations...each of those countries wouldn't be very powerfulon its own; America could never have the superpower it is today without a reasonably strong federal government to hold the states together, to mold these states into one nation.

What if I decide I don't like the United States? Should I be allowed to declare my property a soverign nation?

Self determination refers to freedom of the people of a given area to determine their own political status, not a person. And again, don't be ignorant.

You need to be much less literal. Those statements too, were made half in jest. I was using extremes to prove a point. If one state should be allowed to persue its own interests, without pressure from others, why should a county be forced to go along with the rest of the state? Why shouldn't a city be allowed to determine its self, why must a neighborhood be forced to go along with all the other neighborhoods in a city? See the sheer madness of these questions? If you take your argument to the next level, and the next, and the next, it just gets sillier and sillier, that's what I was trying to show in that quote. I wasn't being ignorant at all! You just couldn't pick up on what I was saying.

[JudgeDredd]

NewAuk any emails ;)

"...and who on Mars would want to be normal?"

As long as when we go to inhabit the Moon and the other Planets, that we try using a new concept than strict regimes for Localized Authoritative Welfare. After all there's no Oceans dividing land into great continents.

Then maybe a such a 'countryless' system might also take favour back here on Earth too.....?

[TheNewAuk-defiant]

Nothing more to say, MarijuanaClock?