Political connetations of FF7

[Holo-Alf]

Got the old PS1 out for another go on the best game of all time. It's amazing how relevant it is at the moment. The Shinra sucking the life-force out of the planet? Say, kinda reminds me of George W Bush's attitude to global warming! Replace the words 'Mako energy' with the word 'Oil.' And, although I think the acts of terrorist organisations are appaling and impossible to justify, a friend once pointed out that these people have no other way to retaliate. They simply don't have the power to stand up for what they believe in peacefully. It's the only way they can be heard. This is no excuse, of course, but it did remind me a bit of the part where Barret is looking back on blowing up Mako reactors and thinking"that wasn't the way to go about it. Loads of innocent people lost their lives because of us." He's right, of course, but how were Avalanche supposed to oppose the all powerful Shinra with their total control and propaganda?

I don't personally believe the conspiracy theories, I do think 911 was an act of terrorism, but for those who do believe it was a conspiracy it's also worth comparing it to the sector 7 plate falling down. Although, unlike in the game, I don't think 911 was conducted by the "Shinra", I do think it was used a tool by them, in the same way the plate falling down is used as a way of inciting hatred towards Avalanche.

[Imperator]

See? This is why I don't think pot should be legalized........

Occupation: Stoner

I say coincidence. The whole lot of it. There have been TONS of things like this going around since 9/11. How about the dollar (don't remember which bill, 1 ,5 10, or $20) trick where when you fold it right it looks like a trade tower on fire?

[Holo-Alf]

lol

Wasn't at all trying to insinuate that FF7 was somehow predicting the future! I am just looking at the ethics of the game and how they compare to real world situations. You can take pretty much any event in history and relate it to a piece of art. I just wanted opinions and ideas of how this game spoke to you politically.

[Altarus]

True, but saving the world is more noble than Islamic fascism. I'm not saying the means justified the ends in FF7, but it sounded like he made the comment in hindsight.

[Holo-Alf]

Hmm, let's take saving the world out of the equation for a second.

Avalanche believed that the Shinra was evil and was destroying the planet.

Islamic fundamentalist terrorists believe the western world is evil.

The point is, rather than looking it from a good vs evil perspective, can murder really be justified?

America is trying to rid the world of the terrorists. The terrorists want the fall of America. Both sides are so absorbed in their own ideals they forget the real danger...Sephiroth. try to work out the metaphor for yourselves, or put a new spin on it.

[fli]

You know Holo elf...
I'm playing this game... and I'm going to tell you something.

I did see weird parallels of this game's society with the one in ours. I shrugged it off and said, "Naw... you're crazy!"

So anyways,
yeah...

I finally got the submarine ship-- and I don't know what to do with it afterwards.

[thebigo1081]

Oh Lord. Personally, I think all we have to worry about is the Weapons. Shinra was easy enough to take out (except for those Turks, those guys r0x0r teh uber!!!). Jenova was just a pmsing bitch, she went down easy enough. While Sephiroth was a badass, he still had his plans ruined by a chick that he had already killed. Avalanche was teh uber, but they ultimately lacked direction (make up your damn minds, who the hell are you fighting?). But those fucking Weapons were teh 1337. Pwned alll they saw. So what are today's Weapons?

[Holo-Alf]

At 12/6/05 06:34 PM, thebigo1081 wrote: So what are today's Weapons?

Hurricanes. Tornados. Earthquakes.

"Weapon is a natural defense for the planet"

Civilisation pwned the "Mako" energy and now weapon's gonna pwn us. Sorry, the word pwn ammuses me, but you get the point.

[TheThing]

this is one of those "911 was predicted in the bible and we found that out 3 years after it happened" or "the titanic almost collided with another whip when it was leaving port". thanks for warning.

[Holo-Alf]

Maybe I should have made it more clear that I merely wanted to look at the messages and metaphor within the game than claim it was predicting the future. D'oh, hoping to get some interesting observations out of this as well, I'll be more careful next time. T-T

[punisher19848]

To topic starter:

With that same logic, I can connect the "Star Wars" universe with the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. Hell, with enough work, I can construct the events of "C&C Tiberium Sun" to be an argument against finding alternative fuel sources!

IT'S JUST FICTION!!! Leave it at that...

[Holo-Alf]

Sorry, I really have to get used to this "only read tiny amount of topic before posting" thing. I was looking at what FF7 was saying politically, not looking at freaky parallels in the real world. It's true that you can draw these parallels from any fiction, because the people that write the fiction are influenced by the world around them, not the other way round. I am not a moron, I just obviously didn't make myself clear in the topic starter. Sorry!

[raimi7]

George Bush is stupid!
Haha pope pwns george bush!

[raimi7]

George bush is a reeking faggot
and he likes to eat money in a cigar because he is fat.
george bush can eat out of his political toilet of shame.
and maybe even drink out of it too!

[RedScorpion]

At 12/8/05 03:01 PM, raimi7 wrote: stuff

Go back to General forum.
We don't 'preciate yur kind 'round here.

[Madness-Hero]

Everyone can be considered a terrorist; it all just depends on what your perspective of the situation. While the U. S. considers the Iraqi regime and Al-Queda terrorist, they consider us terrorists (They may use a different term, but it all means the same thing).

It is just like how every crime should be considered a hate crime, regardless of the parties' differences of race, gender, political outlook, economic earnings, etc. How can a crime not be considered a hate crime? It is all about perspectives.

I'm mean no disrespect to tho

[thebigo1081]

I think that Kefka was supposed to represent the Middle East leaders as a whole: Psychotic, queer, dresses up like a clown, and has the most irritating laugh in the world. Emperor Gestahl was the president of France (I forget his name): Talks a lot of shit, but ultimately gets his ass kicked by what he thought was his loyal follower. The goddesses were symols of oil, nuclear power, and money: when in balance, all was well in the world, but when Kefka fucked with them, all hell broke loose. Doom Gaze was supposed to be Kim Jong II-really fucking irritating and just pops on the radar for no good reason whatsoever. Espers represented other nations, some peace-loving, some resistant to join the alliance, but all ultimately crushed by Kefka. Terra represented China, she wasn't to be trusted at first, but proved to be a worthwhile ally, and eventually saved the day for everyone. Edge was Japan, because his allegiance was shaky at first, but mainly because he was a ninja :P Gau was England-tiny, but that little fucker kicked some ass!!! Sabin is the U.S., because we kick ass!!! And Mog was George Bush-goofy, for sure, but really charismatic, and boy can that fucker dance!!! Did I miss anyone...oh yeah, Setzer was the Democratic party. You hated him, but you needed his airship to get any where :P

[RedScorpion]

And Edgar definetly has to be Canada, because we are zee brothars!! Even if we disagree/fight sometimes. Figaro Castle could be like NORAD. Russia HAS to be the abominal snowman (or w/e his name was) - big, strong, not always there, but a strong allies (plus he's perfect for all that cold weather).

[Holo-Alf]

At 12/8/05 04:17 PM, thebigo1081 wrote: I think that Kefka....(lots of stuff)

This is the sort of thing I was trying to get out of this thread! Too bad you're on about 6, but very interesting ideas. If you could write something like that for 7 I'd be really happy to read it!

[thebigo1081]

At 12/8/05 05:03 PM, Holo-Alf wrote:

At 12/8/05 04:17 PM, thebigo1081 wrote: I think that Kefka....(lots of stuff)

This is the sort of thing I was trying to get out of this thread! Too bad you're on about 6, but very interesting ideas. If you could write something like that for 7 I'd be really happy to read it!

Oh, I'm sorry. I figured 7 was too obvious to be worth mentioning. It obviously represents a world war. U.S., Britain, and most of Judeo-Christian Europe is Avalanche. Shinra is the Middle East and the predominantely Muslim parts of Asia and Europe. The Weapons bear a very close resemblance to the rest of Asia, which will ultimately fall under the command of CHina and slaughter indiscriminately. And Sephiroth!!!! is most certainly the winner of the battle, the one foe who will take advantage of the conflict to destroy his enemies and inherit that which is rightfully his...is most obviously the nation of Mauritania. Indeed, the Mauritanian people will overcome their current state of tyranny, summon the Meteor, and rule the world!!! Estuans interius in a vehementi MAURITANIA!!!! MAURITANIA!!!!

[poxpower]

THIS

has
GOT to be one of the DUMBEST threads to EVER grace politics.

You sir, are a disgrace to neurons.

[Holo-Alf]

I don't think anyone really understood the point of this.

If I'd related it to something like Animal Farm or 1984 would people have taken it more seriously?

[Reverend-Kyle]

At 12/6/05 06:59 PM, Holo-Alf wrote: Maybe I should have made it more clear that I merely wanted to look at the messages and metaphor within the game than claim it was predicting the future. D'oh, hoping to get some interesting observations out of this as well, I'll be more careful next time. T-T

No, it was clear.

Last Thursday, I think it was, someone in my Seminar in International Relations class was talking about a book he read where companies ruled the world and people lived in areas controlled be specific companies... you know, things like that. And I immediately thought, "Wow... sounds like Forsaken." (What I remember about Forsaken, anyway.)

Art reflects culture and society. I guess the reason why so many parallels can be seen between the two is because of this.

The connections that can be made are interesting, too. Like the discussion about Weapon, for example. (Whose ass I kicked, Ruby, Emerald or otherwise)

What about the connection between Cloud and Sephiroth? Why was Yuffie so useless? (I haven't played the game since 1998, so I'm kind of hazy on the details.)

In conclusion, once you can breed a gold Chocobo, (Knights of the Round)+(Quad Magic), (Mime)+(Quad Magic), and (Mime)+(Quad Magic) are all you need.

[Altarus]

I think all good roleplaying games take controversies and dilemmas from today's world. Otherwise, they just wouldn't be interesting.

I do not think FF7 is out to make a point here. The scene is just to make the player realize that clear-cut decisions can be more complicated than they first appear, and to present an ethical dilemma to the player. I do not think it presents a solution to the dilemma though.

[poxpower]

At 12/8/05 05:31 PM, Holo-Alf wrote: I don't think anyone really understood the point of this.

If I'd related it to something like Animal Farm or 1984 would people have taken it more seriously?

I am happy to tell you that I have read none of those and just from hearing of them, I know they are gay :)
And you are right, basing analysis of real-life political situations on stupid old fiction novels with an oppressive force or characters with vague references to common political leader traits makes for your usual boring litterature class.

Fiction is fiction. But this is FINAL FANTASY for fuck's sake. At least animal farm or 1984 were sorta TRYING to be fancy, but this is just a story. Don't ruin it any more than it has by the fanboys.

And also, it would have been better to pick a lesser-quoted FF. Like FF8, because then at least you don't look like a spastic nerd :o

[punisher19848]

At 12/8/05 05:31 PM, Holo-Alf wrote: I don't think anyone really understood the point of this.

If I'd related it to something like Animal Farm or 1984 would people have taken it more seriously?

Yes; those are legitamately recognized social and political satiraical takes on the state of modern society while the FF series is... not.

[Pandaman64]

It's a stretch, but you can make parallels.

Black materia = nukes

white materia = star wars program

sephiroth = iran

It's pretty funny to think about, and would make a pretty good FF7 parody.

"Oh noes! Iran is about to activate the black materia! And they killed Aeris! NOOO!!"

[lapis]

At 12/8/05 04:17 PM, thebigo1081 wrote: kekekekekeke

Great that you changed the subject to FF3 (or 6, depending on what continent you're on), but you're making it look like the Empire represents the Arab nations and the returners represent the US. However, the Empire is the mighty superpower of the world whereas the returners hide in the mountains. So your analogy fails.

Interpretation 2:
Gestahl is of course Uncle Sam with a beard and Kefka represents the greed and evil of capitalism. You were right when you made the analogy between oil and Espers, which is true, because Kefka would massacre the world to obtain it. The Empire itself represents the Western world, with America as it's leader. Magitek armor represents the Abrams tank, and the torched city of Maranda stands for Germany, beaten and assimilated by the Empire.

Figaro represents the muslim world (dur, it's in a desert, you should have figured that one out) and South Figaro represents Israel which the Empire captures from Figaro. Doma (of course) represents Japan and the poisoning by Kefka represents the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Cyan is a rogue Japanese who joins the terrorists like Nanahara Shuya did before him in Battle Royale II. The makers of Final Fantasy 3/6 decided not so show the part where Locke tells South Figaroans to blow themself up (pity if you ask me).

Sabin is Osama bin Laden (come on people, I'm pointing out the obvious here) who cannot live with his riches and birthright and decides to fight for freedom on Mt. Kolts. He is the brother of Edgar, who represents the Saudi leaders. Sure, he pretends to be allies with the Empire, but he secretly backs al-Qaeda (the returners) anyway. Banon is the spiritual leader of the returners, Mullah Omar, hiding in Narsche.

Narsche in the cold north represents Russia which decides to support the muslim world. The Veldt represents the Mongolian steppes and Mobliz represents China. Kohlingen is some unimportant nation like Canada and Zozo is filled with the rejects of the world so it must represent Australia (har har har). Jidoor is France, rich with culture but it has no meaning whatsoever in global geopolitics.

So what will the future bring us? Suddenly oil is discovered on Crescent Island (South America) and the Returners try to find it, while being aided by Strago (Hugo Chavez) and his daughter. The Empire invades however, and torches Thamasa (Cuba). Leo (European allies) sees his mistake but is being slain by Kefka. Kefka then succeeds in his quest for world domination, unleashing his 'light of judgement' (ICBMs) on Mobliz (China). But in the end, the returners strike back, killing Kefka (capitalism) and ridding the world of evil for once and for all. And everyone lives happily ever after, except for that bastard Mog, who dies of testicular cancer.

THE EDN

At 12/8/05 05:21 PM, Bandolph wrote: THIS

has
GOT to be one of the DUMBEST threads to EVER grace politics.

Without a doubt. But it's fucking entertaining nonetheless.

[BrknPhoenix]

Dude, that makes so much sense. Hey, my cat saw Jesus in his milk dish yesterday. You and me should get together sometime and talk about the little green men putting transmitters in our cereal.

[thebigo1081]

At 12/12/05 02:03 PM, lapis wrote: Some terrorist friendly bullshit ><

kekekekekeke

Without a doubt. But it's fucking entertaining nonetheless.

Your interpretation almost holds water. But you forgot one thing, the Returners have to be the good guys. And the bad guys have to dress like faggots. Plus, China + US = New World Order. Watch and wait...