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At 12/1/05 12:11 AM, TassleHoff75 wrote: Yeah, this is getting kind of ridiculous. It feels like there is this anti-Christian movement that attacks Christianity almost everywhere now, from holidays to public schools to even taking "God" off the dollar bill.

Some of it is necessary, of course. I think that public schools should be as secular as possible from "all" religions, for example. But it does seem like Christianity is being specifically attacked more harshly than other religions in this country. Maybe its a backlash from non-Christians, since Christianity is so popular. A lot of people in our government are deeply motivated by their religious faith, including our president. Actually, almost every president we've ever had as been a strong Christian. Maybe its a backlash, but I dunno.

But anyway, back to the issue. I think anyone who is offended by the word "Christmas Tree" really just has an anti-Christian agenda set, and probably isn't really offended at all. I think some people often abuse their rights in this country in order to deal damage to something else.

I disagree completely. I think the schools need to teach religion, and anyone who dislikes it can homeschool their children. THEY can be the reason their children are idiots. EVERY child should have a basic understanding (not detailed info on sacraments and the like, but general ed) of major religions: Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Mormonism, et al. The reason behind my thinking is...without understanding religion, you don't understand people. You don't understand historical AND contemporary events in which religion played a factor in the decision. And you don't understand a majority of the political spectrum. Let's not BS ourselves, religion is an important part of the world. Not at least having a general idea about religion (other than its something crazies practice) is like having 150 pieces of a 200 piece puzzle. You don't get the whole picture.

Other initiatives we need to take...scale back sexual harassment laws. Hearing a dirty joke doesn't impede your ability to work in a non-threatening environment. And fine the ACLU every time they bring a worthless case to the courts.

The problem with teaching all of this religion in schools is that you don't know who the kids are learning from. Some teachers may favor some religions over others, some may hate religion alltogether. If you want your kids to learn about religion, take 'em to church.

And again, who else uses this type of tree for a holiday OTHER than Christmas? Nobody, that tree is exclusivly celebrated at Christmas, nobody else uses it.

This is just stupid. Here's the real question: Why the hell can't someone say anything without "offending" someone else anymore?

Anyways i think you should say what you want to say, but allow "Merry Christmas" to be said. Despite my sig i normally just say "Merry Christmas" not "Happy Holidays." Note: i am catholic however so i do celebrate Christmas and not Chanakuh or Kwanza.

At 11/30/05 11:26 PM, Redbob86 wrote: "Holiday Trees?"

1. Who else buys these trees for the purpose of celebrating any other holiday?

2. Who has that much free time to bitch about what to call a tree?

1. I'm pagan and I celebrate the winter solstice, I have a yule tree, which is a 'christmas tree' dude if I use the tree for something other than christmas its a holiday tree.

2. Who has that much free time to bitch about people bitching about what to call a tree... you?

-Dk

At 12/1/05 03:14 AM, frantik1 wrote: This is just stupid. Here's the real question: Why the hell can't someone say anything without "offending" someone else anymore?

Because we are de-evolving into a nation of pussies. Then again, I think most of the "offeneded" are just doing it for attention. Personal identity has been encouraged over the past 15 years or so, and while I agree with it, some of them take personal identity as something that needs to be made public, and so a lot of people want a lot of attention.

I can handle a few attention whores, but lately it's been getting ridiculous.

1. I'm pagan and I celebrate the winter solstice, I have a yule tree, which is a 'christmas tree' dude if I use the tree for something other than christmas its a holiday tree.

2. Who has that much free time to bitch about people bitching about what to call a tree... you?

-Dk

Question is, are you actually offended by someone calling it a Christmas Tree?

At 12/1/05 03:24 AM, Daddakamabb wrote: 1. I'm pagan and I celebrate the winter solstice, I have a yule tree, which is a 'christmas tree' dude if I use the tree for something other than christmas its a holiday tree.

I'm offended at you calling it a yule tree. You pagans and your devil worship! I WILL NOT HAVE IT!

btw, I'm only kidding, don't get all hostile. It's irony.

I do agree that the basics of religion should be taught. Not as religion, but teaching the basic beliefs of various religions, because it does help people deal with others.

In the real world you comea cross a lot of people from a lot of faiths. Where I work I can tell who the people who have been taught other religions, or at least looked at them themselves and those that have just believed one religion and refused to learn anything about the others. Guess who the people who have a lot of problems are? Guess who are the ones that get along the best? So learning about other people's religions is a great thing. In school is a good place to teach. But there is a difference from teaching it as purely an educational thing and preaching it.

Most christians believe this, and this and this. Most muslims believe this this and this. Ect, it gives people a much better understanding of others and helps them get along better. Maybe gives people an idea on why many Muslim women cover up, and why Jews and Muslims don't eat pork.

"Teachers at a Georgia elementary school reportedly were told to nix any religious pins and refrain from referring to a party as a “Christmas” party, while the local district has censored certain religious Christmas songs from its “winter” program.

Says the attorney: “Many school districts aren’t trying to be difficult; they simply don’t know the facts about the law. The fear, disinformation and intimidation that the ACLU and other groups like them have promoted over the years with regard to religious expression on public property at Christmastime have led to such misconceptions. ADF desires to educate schools, teachers, and students on the truth about what the law really says."

-Source

Thank God there is the Alliance Defense Fund.

You think the school is right or wrong in what they are doing?

Question is, are you actually offended by someone calling it a Christmas Tree?

No I'm not. But I am offended when someone claims they OWN a holiday, because all of the holidays in all of the religions stem from one another....

-Dk

To ReiperX: Not to stray too far from topic here, but I think I agree with what you're saying. There should definately be philosophy/religion classes allowed for students who are interested in learning about different religions.

I don't know if they should be "forced" to take such courses, as a requirement for graduation, however. True, it could explain the motives behind many religious groups in history and shed a lot of light on those kinds of topics. I dunno though...something about requiring a person to learn about the muslim faith/christian faith/etc in the same way a of requiring a pseron to learn about physics or biology just rubs me the wrong way.

But at least were in the same boat in that we agree that religion shouldn't be "preached". It should be strictly kept as "what these people believe, etc." As mentioned before, there could be problems with bias teachers. But you can run into that sort of problem in History, Political Science, Economics, etc. Not much we can do to get away from that. Tis' why I like the hard sciences. Its difficult to be "bias" with chemistry, : D

At 12/1/05 12:23 PM, Daddakamabb wrote: No I'm not. But I am offended when someone claims they OWN a holiday, because all of the holidays in all of the religions stem from one another....

-Dk

I own Christmas. Jesus ain't got nothing on me.

At 12/1/05 02:37 AM, Dilapsor wrote: Whether or not our founding fathers were Christian is arguable. But it's a solid fact that Christianity has had a major role in the formation of this country and these holidays should be observed as such.

Well sorry but they not my founding fathers. They were Christian though yes and they invisioned a Christian society probably. Like everyone in my area is catholic or muslim. Here in NYC, it's really diverse so saying happy holidays for me is more appropiate. Also saying happy holidays includes everyone equally. No one holiday is better or bigger than the other. United Statians (especially the ruling class) are afraid of equallity. So this is probably why they are pushing the "Merry Christmas" thing.

Also about the whole christmas tree thing, that's stupid. Let people call the tree what they want but officially as a government, we should maintain that these are happy holidays.

You know you've got too much time on your hands if you actually think "Holiday Tree" is more appropriate, and "Christmas Tree" is offensive.

At 12/1/05 11:27 PM, LadyGrace wrote: I own Christmas. Jesus ain't got nothing on me.

Bitch, get back in the kitchen.

At 12/2/05 12:38 AM, Jesus_of_Nazareth wrote: Bitch, get back in the kitchen.

You know why chicks dig Jesus?

Because he's hung like this...

At 12/2/05 12:45 AM, LadyGrace wrote:

At 12/2/05 12:38 AM, Jesus_of_Nazareth wrote: Bitch, get back in the kitchen.

You know why chicks dig Jesus?

Because he's hung like this...

BAM! :-)

At 12/1/05 11:27 PM, LadyGrace wrote:

I own Christmas. Jesus ain't got nothing on me.

Listen here buddy ;)

-Dk

At 12/1/05 03:24 AM, Daddakamabb wrote: 1. I'm pagan and I celebrate the winter solstice, I have a yule tree, which is a 'christmas tree' dude if I use the tree for something other than christmas its a holiday tree.

The pagans were the first to celebrate the tree, so I think it'd be ironically appropriate to rename them "Holiday Trees" bastardize what has already been bastardized . . . but really, it's stupid. If you're that worried about offending someone, don't ever leave your house as you may inadvertantly look at someone rudely or say something unintentionally rude.

Damn Atheists...

At 11/30/05 08:41 PM, AxCide wrote: Lori Lipman Brown of Secular Coalition for America and Ellis Henican a FOX News Contributor appeared on The O’Reilly Factor to discuss the Christmas tree fiasco.

I'm sorry but I HAVE to do this

I can speak openly about Christianity, but more specifically, christmas, infront of other jews and they really dont care. IT'S WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THEIR FAITH THAT ANOYS THEM! or.. when you talk about your religon as if it's better.

Generally durring the holidays i'll say have a happy festivous. Or merry christmas if i'm with my family.

I've noticed, the same people who dislike mentions of god are also against:

- prolife
- prowar (reforming islamic ragimes, dealing with terror, etc.)
- Monogamy
- Marige defined as a man and a woman

I see a definate patern here.

No offense but Kwanza is just a cultural holiday that has nothing to do with religon, Boxing Day, no religous connantation and hannuakuah is a couple of weeks earlier.

So actually saying happy hannuahuah would be fine around hannuakuah and saying fucking Merry fucking Christmas should be okay around christmass.