Bush will announce Iraq withdrawal.

[Memorize]

If people would stop being whiny bitches, he wouldnt have to do this so called "360". Personally, I think this time table is pointless; people are still going to moan and complain.

[RedScorpion]

At 11/29/05 11:20 PM, TimeFrame wrote: people are still going to moan and complain.

*moan* :O)

[bcdemon]

360? WTF is that?

Sorry boys, but here in the world of US politics, that's known as a Flip-Flop. Ya know, the same Flip-Flop that GW Bush mocked Kerry for. Silly hypocrite.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 11/29/05 11:20 PM, TimeFrame wrote: If people would stop being whiny bitches, he wouldnt have to do this so called "360". Personally, I think this time table is pointless; people are still going to moan and complain.

Agreed. Bush shouldn't let a bunch of mere citizens push him into anything.

I'm a little dissapointed, in my president, because of this. He's giving his enemies exactly what they want. He's bending to the will of those who seek to subvert his every cause.

And they never, even once, fucking deserved it.

At 11/30/05 01:26 AM, bcdemon wrote: Sorry boys, but here in the world of US politics, that's known as a Flip-Flop. Ya know, the same Flip-Flop that GW Bush mocked Kerry for. Silly hypocrite.

Oh, I agree. People like you don't deserve to be given a time table. He should have told the whiners, complainers, and moaners to go the fuck home.

He shouldn't indulge them with a time table.

[WolvenBear]

LOL, I love idiotic clap trap.

"We don't belong in Iraq, I hate Bush, blah blah blah."

Fast forward a couple of months, Bush does exactly what people have been bitching at him to do...set a time table to leave. What's the response?

"Stupid Bush. What a coward. AND he's a flip-flopper"

Fine, if you want to bitch about flip-flopping, I say he flip-flops BACK, fights the war like a war, and stops trying to pander to anti-war pussies.

[JudgeDredd]

At 11/30/05 01:26 AM, bcdemon wrote: 360? WTF is that?

Duh! It's an Xbox.
The US have deployed thousands of little robots in Iraqi strategic bunkers that are all wireless connected. A military personnel version of Conflict Desert Storm will allow the war to be fought remotely from the comfort of American livingrooms using adapted Xbox360 hardware. See, it's not the WOT that's lost favour of the American public. It's that troops are putting themselves at unnecessary risk in foreign lands.

[RedScorpion]

At 11/30/05 01:50 AM, _FLAGG wrote: Oh, I agree. People like you don't deserve to be given a time table. He should have told the whiners, complainers, and moaners to go the fuck home.

It is flip-flopping when not a moment before, he argued that giving a set timetable would only increase insurgency strength (striking at certain dates), and thus demanding a time table would be the same as opposing America's efforts in the war.

He shouldn't indulge them with a time table.

He should have simply thought out his stance before collasping to external pressure.

As an addition, the term 'flip-flopper' is being implicated here simply because the term was featured on John Kerry time and time again - probably one of the main reasons people didn't vote for him (not saying he was great in the first place). Yet people get all pissy and whine when Bush happens to 'flip-flop' to what he should have done in the first place, rather than just saying 'We'll be done, when we're done'. There was a thread on this (timetable in Iraq) awhile back...

This does not make Bush a coward, or a flip-flopper (if anything, he's not that), but he happened to 'flip-flop' in this one situation. So get over it.

[RedScorpion]

Here - so we don't have to repeat our stance on timetables more than once.

http://www.newground../topic.php?id=379524

[thebigo1081]

I have a feeling that this timetable is going to be less deadlines and more recommendations. I don't see us leaving the place alone to be snatched up by the animals, especially with the strategic and operational significance of the location. Are we going to be keeping some bases there? We'd be pretty foolish not to, although I sure as hell won't be looking for orders there. My personal hope is that we'll hold to the timeline, but not neccesarily follow it to the letter if the situation doesn't allow it.

[RedScorpion]

Here's my overall view:

Yes, a plan of action should be made in regards to withdrawal from Iraq. Not necessarily making definite time-goals, but just making a overall strategy that is flexible enough to take in consideration extenuating circumstances, while accomplishing a 'clear-cut' goal.

For example... 1) Raise a competent army of 50,000 (or whatever) to defend Iraq within 6 additional months; 2) Make sure all supply lines are set up to all Iraqi people within 3 months; 3) Within 3-5 weeks, make sure Iraqi barracks is built...

You guys get the idea, right?

[Dilapsor]

At 11/29/05 11:12 PM, -Michael- wrote:

What do you think of his sudden 360?

180 methinks.

[Gunter45]

I've always thought that a deadline always makes people work harder. Putting things on the clock adds a sense of urgency. I'm not going to pretend like I know how efficiently they're training the Iraqi Security Force, but I'm willing to bet they'd figure out how to do it more efficiently when under a time constraint.

[fli]

At 11/30/05 01:50 AM, _FLAGG wrote: ...He's bending to the will of those who seek to subvert his every cause.

I'm sure there were other factors.
I highly doubt Bush would listen to people...

Anyways,
Now we can concentrate on finding Osama Bin Ladin...

[fli]

At 11/30/05 04:26 AM, fli wrote: I highly doubt Bush would listen to people...

Err... didn't mean it in that way.
I meant to say there were other bigger factors thrown into the reason.

After all,
we spent so much money on it just to turn back because people don't like it.

Perhaps it was lack of support,
money,
time,
troops,
etc...

[LordXanthus]

Now you've gotten me excited. President Bush is going to withdraw from Iraq BEFORE we sustain Vietnam-style casualties? Oh, dear. I think I'm about to come in my pants. If we actually withdraw from Iraq, I will have to fight myself to avoid running nude through the streets, screaming of salvation.

[Yoogle]

At 11/30/05 05:44 AM, marchingtyrants wrote: Saddam will reign iraq again.

It me or you got the great talent to make statement that have little common sense?

[LordXanthus]

At 11/30/05 06:41 AM, MikeZan wrote:

At 11/30/05 05:44 AM, marchingtyrants wrote: Saddam will reign iraq again.

It me or you got the great talent to make statement that have little common sense?

I'm pretty sure that it was a joke. At least, I hope it was a joke.

[MoralLibertarian]

At 11/30/05 04:26 AM, fli wrote:

At 11/30/05 01:50 AM, _FLAGG wrote: ...He's bending to the will of those who seek to subvert his every cause.

I'm sure there were other factors.
I highly doubt Bush would listen to people...

How about the democratic leaders of the Iraqi Republic are calling for a US timetable? This is the fairly obvious point that everyone seems to be missing: Bush promised that as soon as Iraqis had sovereignty and were ready for the US to get out, they would leave. So now we have the majority of Iraqi politicans campaigning on the formation of an exit strategy and as a result the Administration is (or may be) coming up with one.

There is no hypocrisy here, unless you like to dismiss fairly major events.

For those of you who want to stay there: 1) I'm tired of people dying in Iraq 2) We are an immensely unpopular presence. If and when the Democratically elected government of Iraq is a success, they will appreciate us in hindsight, but they don't appreciate us now 3) We can't stay in a country against their sovereign government's will. Let's not be ridiculous now.

[Proteas]

At 11/29/05 11:12 PM, -Michael- wrote: What do you think of his sudden 360?

I think you've got your math wrong, for starters...

And what do I think about all this? The people in this thread have illustrated what I think. First, it was "OH NOES BUSH R NOT LEEVING SOON ENUFF!!!" Now it's, "OMFG BUSH A FLIP FLOPPER!!!" No matter what the man does, anybody who leans to the left of the aisle is going to be happy about it. Even if he caters to what they want, it's still going to give them ample fuel with which to blast him for his shortcomings. I don't see this as a "Win-Win" situation for the administration, as the Slate article called it.

[EZ3]

At 11/30/05 01:50 AM, _FLAGG wrote: Agreed. Bush shouldn't let a bunch of mere citizens push him into anything.

Listen to yourself.

[Imperator]

At 11/30/05 01:26 AM, bcdemon wrote: 360? WTF is that?

Sorry boys, but here in the world of US politics, that's known as a Flip-Flop. Ya know, the same Flip-Flop that GW Bush mocked Kerry for. Silly hypocrite.

See, this is the whole problem. You complain for years that he doesn't have a plan to withdrawl the troops, and then complain when he says he's got one.

Bush no plan:
OMG! He's stoopid, he doesn't have a plan of escape!

Bush with plan:
OMG! He's a flip-flopper!

Damned if ya do, Damned if ya don't!

[Imperator]

I also don't really consider this "flip-flopping". It's more like "conforming" to other pressures, like his popularity, general will in America, general will in Iraq, etc. People wanted an escape plan, so now he's finally gonna give one.

Be careful what you wish for........

[Morextremist]

At 11/29/05 11:12 PM, -Michael- wrote: Bush will announce Iraq withdrawal.

more like he didn't and is asking for billions of more dollars so thousands of tanks can sit idle burning diesel and other military vechicles burn gasoline...

[Kuuuter]

Who really cares anymore. Its now a reality that we lost in Iraq. The only people who are losing their lives are those dumbass bottomfeeder us soldiers so I really don't care.

[Morextremist]

bush just wants to hide the fact that if all those soldiers came home there wouldn't be any jobs for them, so he creates this sort of socialist state. Those people have a job in the military playing in the sandbox while the rest of the nation subsidizes their paycheck out of "fear" of the big bad iraqi man.

[The-Dran]

Oh so now Bush is preparing to invade Iran now?

[punisher19848]

Notice the key words here: is expected to. This is a man who is known for the unexpected! As I recall, many of the media elite expected him to lose the 2000 and 2004 election races as well; so take this opinion with a grain of salt.

[punisher19848]

At 11/29/05 11:20 PM, TimeFrame wrote: If people would stop being whiny bitches, he wouldnt have to do this so called "360". Personally, I think this time table is pointless; people are still going to moan and complain.

Isn't a "360" a full cirle turn back to previous course? If he is pulling a "360" don't expect him to put up a time-table.

[fli]

Mmm'kay... News today in one sentence:
"We'll leave once we've declared victory."

Future news of tomorrow:
"President calls Iraqi War a victory..."

More news at 10...

[intrepidus6]

Lets certanliy hope that he will propose a timetable to get us out of this pointless war and stop all the sensless white sulphur and atomic weaponriey from being used anymore!!!

fuck bush! fuck him hard!!!