The war of 1812

[Angryjeff]

lets see how many yanks know bout this i'll bassicly sum it up in one sentence. You tried to invade canada, we fought back, burnt down your whitehouse.

Now to elaborate. The war of 1812 was fought because the united states goverment decided to flex it's muscle and proves it's manifest destiny to rule north america. So while britan was busy fighting napoleon in europe the yanks decided to invade canada. We eventully one and pushed them back even gaining terroity and burning down the white house.

Now some little known facts.

1. Our general of the whole effort was insane and a drunk and was drunk for most of the battles.
2. The american national anthem was written at this time during the battle of boston and the part where it says "and the flag was still there" hate to break your lil hearts but thats bout all that was left
3. we are also the first country to use rockets as a military weapon (little side note eventhough it was designed by the americans we were the first to sue the chain gun)

(i don't think any of these facts are wrong if they are please correct me but hey even if they all are one things we true we beat u :P lol)

[VasIndustries]

Yeah, when I was in high school, they only skimmed over this, but I have looked it up before because it is interesting. I'm sure many people in the US don't know what happened in Korea or anything about the Spanish-American war either, which is too bad.

Congress had just acquired the Louisiana purchase and many of congressmen were "War Hawks". These War Hawks believed that all of North America should be part of America. They started kicking more indians off their land and moving West. However, being on a land kick, they still wanted Canada, so they declared war on it. Funny enough, all these War Hawks lived in the southern states, they declined any bill that offered the military funds, and they thought the war would take only 4 weeks. The sentiment from Northern states was not to go to war, and it was hardly embraced by the country, but America did it anyway.

Well, most battles happened on the US-Canada border, and advances on both sides were more or less at a stand still. Then, Napolean wasn't a threat anymore, so Canada called on its ally, Britain, to help fight. British ships went right up the Potamic River and docked in Washington DC. DC for some reason didn't find this alarming, so the army wasn't immediately released. There was just a bunch of militia to defend the capitol. The British burned down most of DC and certainly the white house.

Though casualties on both sides were near equal, and nobody surrendered, it was a mutual cease, no true winner emerged, in the strict definition of winner that is. However, America hadn't achieved anything it set out for, and substained loss of life and property. Canada also lost life, but from the war, the providences earned pride, and Canada was shaped for the better in the long run.

I didn't realize that Canada was the first to use those weapons, that's pretty interesting. I think Americans should learn about wars like this one, because many of them seem to be under the impression that America is an indestructible force.

[Angryjeff]

one thing i forgot to mention that the border that we still use today was decided at the end of the war. Also when the war was declared the two highest ranking generals were at the time having lunch and decided to finish the lunch even after they heard the news

[MarijuanaClock]

Canada was not a dominion in 1812

People who lived in British North America(BNA) defended Canada

The people who lived in BNA did not burn down the whitehouse, British troops from britian burnt down the whitehouse

The British kicked Americas ass in the War of 1812, the "Canadians" just repeled the American invasion.

[Angryjeff]

well someone is gettin pretty damn technical, but we were called canada back then so techniclly the people there were canadains. we did more than repel we managed to hold our own and ever gain some land with british support. Besides we were not ready for a war, we didn't even have enough weapons for the troops we still managed to gain ground. Also the general for most of the battles was infact a canadian

[MarijuanaClock]

At 12/10/02 01:49 AM, Angryjeff wrote: well someone is gettin pretty damn technical, but we were called canada back then so techniclly the people there were canadains. we did more than repel we managed to hold our own and ever gain some land with british support. Besides we were not ready for a war, we didn't even have enough weapons for the troops we still managed to gain ground. Also the general for most of the battles was infact a canadian

Actaully The actual "Canadian" troops were highly traind and disciplined regulars.

The American troops were made up of militia, poorly traind and un-disciplined they were easly cut to peices by the "Canadian" troops.

Later the Americans sent regualr troops only to be repelled again.

Lastly the General over the "Canadian" troops was Isaac Brock, and he was British. Brock was known as the "Hero of Upper Canada" becuase he lead the "Canadians" in repelling the Canadians.

[MarijuanaClock]

This is grade ten stuff dude. =P

[Nightshadeplus]

At 12/10/02 02:10 AM, MarijuanaClock wrote: This is grade ten stuff dude. =P

You'd be surprised what historical content is given in a US high school at 10th grade...

[The-Raven]

At 12/10/02 01:33 AM, MarijuanaClock wrote: Canada was not a dominion in 1812

People who lived in British North America(BNA) defended Canada

The people who lived in BNA did not burn down the whitehouse, British troops from britian burnt down the whitehouse

The British kicked Americas ass in the War of 1812, the "Canadians" just repeled the American invasion.

marijuana, i hate to differ, but...

At the battle where the British tried to take New Orleans (january 8,1815)...there were 7.000 British soldiers Facing 5.000 American soldiers. The results of this battle were: 2.000 casualties on the british side and their general, while the americans came out of the battle with 70 casualties. The British soldiers retreated. Now i ask of you, do you still insist that the british whipped the states?

Then again, im not going to provide just one point of view...

The buildings the british burned were "public buildings in washington D.C." >In responce to the american army burning Newark, Upper Canada

A population of 500.000 Canadian farmers managed to muster enough troops from the small populus to fend off an army that came from a nation that had a populus of 7.7 million. :D

A highlight of British North America (Futurly canada)'s great work, The Battle of Chateauguay: A force of 4.000 American soldiers were defeated by a taskforce of 800 Canadian soldiers. :D

Notes:
-All occupied territories were given back to respective former owners after the peace treaty was signed in Ghent (December 24, 1814)

-Governer General Sir Issac Brock knew there was something wrong with the americans movements in the months before the start of the war, he prepared the Canadians for war...and if it were not for him, the americans would have had an easy victory indeed. (us canadians are in det to him)

-I would just like to also point out, 11 of 17 american states voted for war against British North America.

-The things that motivated the american *attempted* Invasion of British North America was: 1.manifest destiny, the americans believed they had the divine right to all of the "americas" after they had won their rebellion from Britian. 2.all people born in britian were being seized off of american sea vessles to join the british navy to fight the Napoleonic wars. 3.The british was supporting the natives, as in their right to their lands. The americans weren't.

This concludes my summary, some of it corrections to what people had listed in this thread. If you think I have made a mistake, please inform me so I may verify it myself.

[The-Raven]

At 12/10/02 12:22 PM, Nightshadeplus wrote:

At 12/10/02 02:10 AM, MarijuanaClock wrote: This is grade ten stuff dude. =P

You'd be surprised what historical content is given in a US high school at 10th grade...

If you knew anything, ANYTHING AT ALL about the american education system compared to other countries, (especially Canadas) you would know that the american public education system is in the toilet in comparison. I mean for christ sake, americans that want a university education are coming up to Canada and taking the places from Canadians because the universities get credit for taking forgein students.

If I could from here, I would spit on you.

[MarijuanaClock]

good points raven, but the British still marched into America's capital and burnt down the White House.

Secondly the Americans burnt down New York(Now Toronto), not Newark.

[The-Raven]

At 12/10/02 07:03 PM, MarijuanaClock wrote:
good points raven, but the British still marched into America's capital and burnt down the White House.

I didn't think U said otherwise (The article I red didn't specify which bulding were burned, all that was said was that public buildings were burned down)

Secondly the Americans burnt down New York(Now Toronto), not Newark.

Actually Toronto was refered to as JUST York, Not New York (in what I red anyways) York was occupied for a short time, burned, then abandoned (May 27, 1813)

The burning of Newark, (niagra-on-the-lake) led to brutal retaliation by the British at Buffalo. The retaliation continued until washington itself was burned in the following August. (sort of like a rampage across america)

[VasIndustries]

If you knew anything, ANYTHING AT ALL about the american education system compared to other countries, (especially Canadas) you would know that the american public education system is in the toilet in comparison. I mean for christ sake, americans that want a university education are coming up to Canada and taking the places from Canadians because the universities get credit for taking forgein students.

If I could from here, I would spit on you.

I haven't heard of anyone from the states going to Canada for college, and I live 2-3 hours from the border. So, I guess the drag isn't too powerful, because a lot more people went to Boston which is nearly equi-distant.

America's public education is slipping, but I think that there are still excellent universities. A good education is easy to find if you are a dilligent student. I think that what you know is dependant solely on you, and not so much on the school you attend.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 12/9/02 03:40 AM, Angryjeff wrote:

Now to elaborate. The war of 1812 was fought because the united states goverment decided to flex it's muscle and proves it's manifest destiny to rule north america.

The war of 1812 was started because Great Britian imposed trade restrictions and naval blockades on America, followed a policy called impressement, where American trade sailors were inducted unwillfully into the British navy, and because the British crown was armed and inciting North American Native tribes to attack settlers. Congress decaled war to stop the hostile actions of Great Britian. The territory that Congress had hoped to gain was from Native American tribes not from Canada.

http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/intro.html

So while britan was busy fighting napoleon in europe the yanks decided to invade canada. We eventully one and pushed them back even gaining terroity and burning down the white house.

There were two invasions of Canada, one in 1812, where British troops defeated the American troops and the Invasion collapsed. The british troops in Canada did not follow the American troops into America. The second invasion in 1813 was a military sucess for America, all major battles were won by the American armed forces. They lacked the numbers to take and hold Canada and withdrew. In 1814 an expedition from Britian to Chesapeake captured Washington. There were no units from British Colonies during that expidition. Canadian troops were not present.

http://www.historychannel.com/index2.html

Now some little known facts.

2. The american national anthem was written at this time during the battle of boston and the part where it says "and the flag was still there" hate to break your lil hearts but thats bout all that was left

Francis Scott Key wrote the star spangled banner at the battle of Baltimore. It was a battle the Americans won.

http://www.historychannel.com/index2.html

(i don't think any of these facts are wrong if they are please correct me but hey even if they all are one things we true we beat u :P lol)

America suceeded in halting the hostile actions of Great Britian during the treaty of Ghent. The British army in New Orelands was captured and defeated by an army fielded by Andrew Jackson at the same time the treaty was signed. No territory was gained by either side. If by Canada winning, you mean that 20,000 people were killed to accomplish nothing other than lifting trade restrictions set by Great Britian, then I guess that you won.

I don't understand how you could have been so confused, did they teach that to you in school?

[MarijuanaClock]

At 12/11/02 03:50 PM, Anarchy_Penguin wrote:
America suceeded in halting the hostile actions of Great Britian during the treaty of Ghent.

WOW WHAT BIAS!

Wait your calling Britian hostile when American declared war on Britian while it was fighting the Napoleanic War? Secondly the treaty of Ghent was signed shortly after the White House was burnt down.

:If by Canada winning, you mean that 20,000 people were killed to accomplish nothing other than lifting trade restrictions set by Great Britian, then I guess that you won.

No I imagine he means America's failure to obtain it's objectives.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 12/11/02 07:02 PM, MarijuanaClock wrote:

At 12/11/02 03:50 PM, Anarchy_Penguin wrote:
America suceeded in halting the hostile actions of Great Britian during the treaty of Ghent.

Wait your calling Britian hostile when American declared war on Britian while it was fighting the Napoleanic War?

I didn't have any bias, I posted historically acurate information, I think I see the problem though. I linked the wrong links.

Please Reread the posts, it's almost as if you didn't read them to begin with.

Here's a list of some of the pre-war hostile actionst that I posted before...

"The war of 1812 was started because Great Britian imposed trade restrictions and naval blockades on America, followed a policy called impressement, where American trade sailors were inducted unwillfully into the British navy, and because the British crown was armed and inciting North American Native tribes to attack settlers. Congress decaled war to stop the hostile actions of Great Britian"

Congress declared war on Great Britian because of the hostile actions which Great Britian imposed on the U.S.

http://www.historychannel.com/perl/print_book.pl?ID=119740

Secondly the treaty of Ghent was signed shortly after the White House was burnt down.

The white house was burnt in early September of 1814.

The treat of Ghent was signed on Decemeber 24th of 1814.

The Chesapeak expidition was halted at the battle of Baltimore, and on Septmeber 11th the British army retreated into Canada after a major naval victory on lake Champlain.

By wars end the British army in the north was in retreat.

Andrew Jackson decisively defeated the British at New Orleans on Jan. 8, 1815. The British army in the south was soundly defeated and captured.

http://www.historychannel.com/perl/print_book.pl?ID=35804

If by Canada winning, you mean that 20,000 people were killed to accomplish nothing other than lifting trade restrictions set by Great Britian, then I guess that you won.

No I imagine he means America's failure to obtain it's objectives.

Congress declared war for the reasons of,
Ending the trade blockade
Ending the Practice of Impressment
Ending the training and armarment of natives in the North American wilderness

All of these practices ended by the wars end. The treaty of Ghent did not include solving these problems, but after the war all of these practices had halted.

[Angryjeff]

hmmm i wonder where u got your info from an american source maybe??? yes britan was imposing blockades, but it was also because of americans supposed Manifest destiny there are written documents stating one fo the reasons for the invasion of canada was that the states wanted to to bring the rest of north american into it's power. And yes the americans did win the battle of Baltimore, but thats bassicly because the british jsut left the place in flames. The british had no objective to recapture america is more of jsut a retrabution thing. And did u knwo that it was written to the tune of a english drinking song

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 12/11/02 10:13 PM, Angryjeff wrote: hmmm i wonder where u got your info from an american source maybe???

Go back and look. I foot noted everything. They all have souces. Why do you wonder? click the link, look at the source. Here I'll copy and paste them.

The Expanded Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia Copyright© 2000. Columbia University Press. Used with permission of Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.

The Reader's Companion to American History, Eric Foner and John A. Garraty, Editors. Copyright© 1991 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/

[Andrew-Traviss]

First of all, they refer to it as a war between the British and America because Canada was still a British colony at the time. The people who fought are the ancestors of many modern Canadians, however.

Ok now, about the Native American tribes.
-----
Because some of the Indians were equipped with fire-arms, the frontiersmen complained loudly that the British in Canada were arming the Indians and inciting the tribesmen to fight the Americans. These charges were grossly exaggerated. It is true that Indians did acquire a few muskets through normal trade, as they had done for many years, but the British forces in North America were so poorly equipped that they had no surplus guns to give to American Indian tribes. Unfortunately, the noisy charges of the frontiersmen deceived a large number of American citizens.
------
We didn't start arming them until after America began its offensive. The Native Americans were skilled at guerilla warfare, which was totally unknown at the time, and it gave Canada a distinct edge.

As for your trade restrictions logic
-----
By February of 1812, Congress had ordered the creation of a volunteer army of 50,000 men. On June 18th 1812 came a declaration of war against Great Britain. Oddly enough on June 23rd 1812 Great Britain had revoked the restrictions on American commerce, thus eliminating one of the chief reasons for going to war.
-----

It is true that British mainland support arrived eventually, mostly in the form of naval forces, but the land-bound defenders were all residents of Canada, (also known as British North America at the time), aside from the notable exception of Brock

Who won? I think this says it best
-----
If any one could claim victory it was Canada. The United States declared war on Great Britain and set out to make Canada states in the union. Ten American armies crossed into Canada and all were driven out.
-----

[Angryjeff]

hey the way u described the victory reminded me or sumtin the korean war maybe?? The americans pushed the north koreans back but didn't invade and they say the won the war so canada can say we one the war of 1812, also where were those sources published?? american perhaps, jsut because it's a big name u think there gonna be unbaised maybe u should watch CNN sometime tell me how unbaised they are

[agent66]

At 12/9/02 03:40 AM, Angryjeff wrote: lets see how many yanks know bout this i'll bassicly sum it up in one sentence. You tried to invade canada, we fought back, burnt down your whitehouse.

You do an awesome job of butchering the English language. You are either ignorant or a silly Frenchie, which means you are the red headed step child of your country.Hau hau, Chaque le bleu!!!

[Angryjeff]

i'd rather be ignorant than a frenchie. naw i'm just to tired to check it that earlier in the mourning bout one thing u can keep in mind next time u talk to a canadian. We all hate the frenchies and to call a westener is more insulting than being called a yank..well almost lol jk man