Creationism and Evolution

[Angryjeff]

This is jsut mah point of veiw on the subject. Everyone i tell this says it sounds kind of interesting tell me what ya think:

First off I wanna say I don't belive that the creator has a name or if it does humans have no right to say it but for the sake of this peice we'll call it god. Bassiclly this is my veiw on religion and what I belive in it's been taken from many diffrent religions and books some even sci fi books others actual religious texts. lets begin

Bassicly I belive in the "creationist evalotion" theory, which is that a highier being did create this universe but not in 7 days or whatever but by creating the math and science of the univerese by creating the way atoms react and the way life forms. In essence the "big bang" was "god" puttin all the calculations into a computer and hitting enter. Now there have been many events that shaped human evolotion, the ice age, the diffrent mass extinctions, the nucular age. All of these were were planned ahead by god. He created the math of the univerese so at specific times these events would happen.

Now onto the relgion part off it. First I wanna say I have n patience for anyone who doesn't keep an open mind of preaches intolerence of other religions. I do not belive in the idea of organized relgions. I belive in the ideas they promote though. Lets take christantiy for example. They belive in treating your fellow man as you would want to be treated. They belive that a great man (Jesus Christ) died for our sins. Now I'm not going to say thats right or wrong because again who am I to say that millions of people are wrong. BUT those are the ideas of the church. Now we move on to the church itself. The fact that someone else who the only diffrence between themselves and you are that they went to school in this matter and read the bible a lot. They tell u what to belive and how to interpret the bible. I'm not saying that all priests or ministers or whatever are bad people. I'm sure there like you and me some good some bad. But the idea of someone telling u what to belive on a spirtual level on a level that is truely the most personal thing anyone can have I just can't belive in that.

Now your going to ask me what proof do I have to back up my claims other than it just sounds cool. I don't have any. All i know is that when I think about it it just sounds right so now I understand what faith is. Because if someone needs to have total proof before beliving in something on a spirtual sense then they can never truely have a spirtual side because the "spirt" needs a share of faith and a leap of faith to truely belive.

I guess thats all I have to say for now I'm sure i'll update this alot since i'm very interestdin relgion. So jsut remember these are my ideas and i'm not telling u there right or wrong it's jsut what i feel is right. And btw yes i do belive that there was a man named jesus christ and even if he didn't ahve anything to do with god or even if he did it doesn't matter what matters is that he was a great man who helped many people and has givien millions of people something to belive in.

[House-Of-Leaves]

Actually, I can somewhat agree with you, even being a Christian woman. :)

I also believe somewhat in the 'Evolution in Creation' theory. Like everyone else, I can't say it's right or wrong, but it makes sense to me.

There's so much scientific backing of evolution, but I believe God created the earth. In seven days? Sure...but who's to say how long God's days are? One day for God could have been a million years. Or one second. The former would explain the dinosaurs and such. The latter...is just neat. :)

The Bible says the world was created in 6 days, and on the 7th day, He rested. It's a book, the Word of God...written by fallible men. We have no way of knowing, again, how long God's days are. That's the beauty of not being omnipotent and omniscient. We don't have to worry about it. We just...live.

Disclaimer: Yes, I'm Christian. But I'm not one of those that has made 'Christianity' into an obscenity. I do not sell/thrust/push/or otherwise force my religious beliefs on anyone. I'm not on this earth to judge.

[MarijuanaClock]

I'm agnostic so when it comes to the existence of God I don't know, and don't care.

I think an easy way to solve the whole dispute would be to make the teaching of evolution optional. If your moraly opposed to it don't learn it. There's nothing hard about that.

[Angryjeff]

I like to belive most shristans nowadays are openminded enough to learn about evoltion, like House_Of_Leaves was. Its the fanatics that annoy me. The ones who take the bible to seriously and belive that it is straight from gods mouth. Instead of thinking that "and then there was light" is a metaphor for the big bang or something they take it dircetly as "no god turned on a switch and there it was", and refuse to listen to any other ideas cause it's impossible for them to be wrong :S

[VisaFreak]

i believe there is some sort of a God.

[swayside]

bet you didn't know this:

the moon is constantly getting farther and farther away from the earth. at the rate it's going, if we were to go back in time billions of years, the moon would be resting on the earths surface. the earth can't be billions of years old.

the earth is constantly getting farther and farther away from the sun. at the rate it's going, if we were to go back in time billions of year's, the earth would be touching the sun if not obliterated by the heat. the earth can't be billions of years old.

the earth's gravitational pull is constantly weakening. at the rate it's weakening if we were to go back billions of years, nothing we have ever seen would have the structural stability or strength to stand, swim, or even breathe. the earth can't be billions of years old.

there is a scientific law called the conservation of angular momentum states that if an object is spinning (the mass before the "big bang") and breaks apart, all of the resulting particles will be spinning in a uniform direction. this solar system has a few moons and even a planet spinning backwards in relation to the majority, and there is even a moon that is travelling backwards. the earth could'nt have resulted from a "big bang".

the estimated life span of an asteroid is about 15,000 years, if that is so why do asteriods still exist? the universe can't be billions of years old.

some people believe that the lower a rock layer is in the earth, the older it is. howerver some rock layers have been found to be warped around each other. we have also found petrified trees standing upright through several rock layers. if you take different kind of soil and mix them up and put them in a jar filing it half way, then fill the jar with water, and shake it up, given enough time, all of the different soils will separate into layers. proof of the great flood? yes.

[Angryjeff]

fine thats your opinion but still Evolotion hasn't been proven but neither has Creationism. Evoltion has SCIENTIFIC facts backing it up, Creatiosnism has a few facts backing it up but most of it has to deal with faith. Besides what makes more sense i ask u to htink as a rational human being not as a religous person what makes more sense some kind of all knowing being that u can't hope to describe jsut one day deciding to create the universe and the soul itself. Or that mathamaticlly life was created over billions of years. Also how do u know when we started drifitng away??? couldn't have something happened?? such as a big enough rock hit us and scrwed with our orbit (extinction of the dinosours). But again this is my opinion but please don't try to say your right and someone else is wrong because it is not only insulting me but the billions of people that exist now and have exsited before that belived diffrently. Also can u explain to me the dinosours??? if the earth is as young as creationists say it as why are dinosaur bones around, and cave paintings?? o and mountin ranges that were craved out during the ice ages???

[Spike-J-Wolfwood]

At 12/4/02 04:48 PM, swayside wrote: bet you didn't know this:

Swayside.
Points well taken. In one respect you are sort of right. The Moon was at one point in contact with the Earth. It was a mass of super heated liquid rock that was torn from the Earths surface by the impact that caused the Extinction level event meteor that killed of the dinosaurs. As all with liquids it formed a sphere in the vacuum of space and cooled to its present state. Since it was thrown from our atmosphere it is slowly moving away.
Secondly, you can not discern the expansion of the universe and its estimated thousands of billions of galaxies based the nature of a few moons and planets in a single solar system in a single galaxy. Aside from the conservation of angular momentum you need to account for gravity and the effect of masses directly and indirectly effecting each other. It has also been observed that all galaxies are in fact moving away from each other and are somewhat equally distributed.
Thirdly, there are still asteroids simply because they are byproducts of meteors hitting planets hard enough to send debris into space. In fact, the major asteroid belt in this solar system are chipped off Mars.
Finally, not a great flood, just interesting weather. Think about it. Earthquakes, glaciers, tectonic shifts, meteors, and the magnetic reversal of the poles for starters. Also, places that were lush are now deserts and visa-versa, lots happens in billions of years. So if you want scientific proof of god, you won’t find it. I thought that was what faith was.

[swayside]

creationism is more scientific than evalutionism. say the universe did result from the big bang. what caused the cosmic matter to gather its self up into one spot and explode? more importantly where did all of that matter come from. the amount of matter in the universe remains constant, it can never be destoyed or created naturally. that rules out the possibility of all the matter spontaneously appearing. and energy would be needed to make the thing explode. energy cannot be created or desrtoyed either, it can only be transfered, so where did that come from? also if you walked by a table upon which were every tiny piece and component needed to make a watch, then came back later to find all of the parts put together making a precision timepiece, wouldn't you be supremely skeptical of the idea that it just happened without anything causing it to, that it just randomly drew to a central point and created itself in a working order? the universe is very precise. chance could not have created such a wonder. a creator must have created this place. one who could make such things, have the forsight to set in place all the laws that govern this universe. if there is a disigne, there is a designer.

[Angryjeff]

eventhough i bassicly agree with what u said there, for the sake of argument u could also say the same thing about the creator "what is it" "where did it come from" it's one of those things thats beyond the scope of what we can know. But i do agree with you there is a creator who created the big bang itself kind of like turnin on the oven to cook life, it had no part in the actual making of mankind of life itself but more put all the elements needed to create it together and let them do there thing. So in that aspect I don't belive in the creator as a god or as a holy figure (i.e. heaven/hell and whatnot).

[Spike-J-Wolfwood]

At 12/5/02 03:32 PM, swayside wrote: creationism is more scientific than evalutionism.

Well, lets look at it this way. If there is a god he is a scientist. You would agree that there are physical laws, yes? Well, if there is a god who created the universe then these laws are also his creation. I mean, the logical progression of events from the big bang, to the formation of stars, planets and life all can be explained but I don’t see why that makes it any less amazing than the idea that the plane of reality lies on gods thumbnail. There could be a creator or all this could exist because energy simply must be. The point is that if you believe, then have faith and stop looking for quick simple answers. That is the definition of faith. Besides if god exists he doesn’t want you to know. He wants you to trust.
I can’t have that trust. I believe that the grater thing than us is the energy that flows ever changing throughout the universe being everywhere and nowhere binding all things at once. And no I am not a damn Jedi. This is how I feel about science and physics. By the way, shame on you, saying that we spontaneously existed is not as scientific at the theory of evolution. Creationism was how we explained where we came from before we understood evolution, or really even put any scientific thought into it.

[Angryjeff]

THANK YOU, thats exactly what i was talking about. I do also understand what u ment about faith. I didn't understand it either until a lot of thinking that idea for life jsut kinda came to me and i decided that yes it makes sense and it gives me a sense of comfort (which is what all religion really is). You don't agree with it but thats fine you seem like you have an open mind which is all any one really needs. I totaly know what u mean by creationsim not being anyways scientfic, I've never belived it even when i was forced to go to church as a kid it's just to far fetched. Also when people say theres proof of the great flood etc.. they don't seem to realize that theres historical proof that the basis of the christan bible (the jewish bible the tanakh) might be wrong and that there might never have been an exodes, I do not ahve the exact facts of this but it was in the December 9th issue of Macleans (canadains know what it is)

[Nightshadeplus]

I'm a bit bored so I'll just throw in some quotes from infamous writer, Ayn Rand:

"Religion is a primitive form of philosophy, [the] attempt to offer a comprehensive view of reality."

"Philosophy is the goal toward which religion was only a helplessly blind groping."

This last quote from her doesnt't have much to do with the topic but I think it's important enough on its own:

"Men have been taught that it is a virtue to agree with others. But the creator is the man who disagrees. Men have been taught that it is a virtue to swim with the current. But the creator is the man who goes against the current. Men have been taught that it is a virtue to stand together. But the creator is the man who stands alone."