US owes Canada 5 billion dollars

[Mr-Snickers]

Right now the Canadian government is threatening to stop all gas and oil exports to the US if they dont repay a 5 billion dollars in softowood lumber tariffs considered a violation of our free trade agreement.

I wanted to hear other peoples opinions on this specifically Americans seeing as how a poll suggests that over 75% of all Canadians agree with Paul Martins decision.

[Me-Patch]

At 10/24/05 04:04 PM, Mr_Snickers wrote: Right now the Canadian government is threatening to stop all gas and oil exports to the US if they dont repay a 5 billion dollars in softowood lumber tariffs considered a violation of our free trade agreement.

I wanted to hear other peoples opinions on this specifically Americans seeing as how a poll suggests that over 75% of all Canadians agree with Paul Martins decision.

Judging by your post alone, being as there is no link provided, Id'e say good luck trying to collect. Since at this point it isn't a clear cut case of America owing Canada money but a disagreement over a taxing situtation I doubt our government will find any reason to pay you people a dime.

[Mr-Snickers]

No reason to pay a dime? Aside from all stopping oil and gas exports that is. I dont have a link because I've heard this on TV news, radio and Newspaper which arnt connected to the internet.

[ReiperX]

Generally news stations have a website, so do radio stations. Not saying that this is true or false, just that I want to see the source.

[Me-Patch]

At 10/24/05 04:10 PM, Mr_Snickers wrote: No reason to pay a dime? Aside from all stopping oil and gas exports that is. I dont have a link because I've heard this on TV news, radio and Newspaper which arnt connected to the internet.

You said they were threatening to stop gas and oil exports so I doubt they will at all, and even if they do we'll stop trading and exporting with you so who's economy will suffer worse. Most other countries rely on America's patronige, although I'm not sure about our financial relationship with Canada. Besides our goverment is a bit arrogant, I don't think we would find it suitable to bow to a bunch of hosers.
Or I'm completely wrong and I'll be eating my words soon enough, I really don't know enough about the situation.

[MoralLibertarian]

At 10/24/05 04:04 PM, Mr_Snickers wrote: I wanted to hear other peoples opinions on this specifically Americans seeing as how a poll suggests that over 75% of all Canadians agree with Paul Martins decision.

Tarifs are ghey. I haven't heard about it, I dont' know when it happened, but if it's true, then the US should give Canada their money. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Mr-Snickers]

" You said they were threatening to stop gas and oil exports so I doubt they will at all, and even if they do we'll stop trading and exporting with you so who's economy will suffer worse".

Im not sure how it will turn out to be honest but Canada is overall at better terms with the Europe then the states overall making better trading partners. The only real reason why Canada trades with the US in the first place is because were right beside eachother.

[Elfer]

At 10/24/05 04:16 PM, MoralLibertarian wrote: Tarifs are ghey. I haven't heard about it, I dont' know when it happened, but if it's true, then the US should give Canada their money. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

There's a big ongoing issue over softwood lumber.

Essentially, the trade agreement says the US can't impose tariffs, and Canada can't impose them either. Companies in Canada may suffer due to competition from American comapnies that can produce a better product and/or sell it for a lower price. Canada understood that this was a necessary part of the trade deal. Canada has softwood lumber that is of a higher quality and lower price than American lumber. The US panics, as they didn't realize that free trade didn't mean free trade for them only. They impose tariffs on the softwood lumber being imported from Canada. This is a flagrant violation of the trade agreement. Canada sues US. Every single court that goes over the case says that no, the US is not allowed to impose tariffs, and yes, they have to pay the money back to Canada. The US continues tariffs and does not pay the money back to Canada.

And now, we have the situation you see before you.

[Me-Patch]

At 10/24/05 04:21 PM, Elfer wrote: And now, we have the situation you see before you.

Just goes to re-affirm my point, our arrogant goverment will not bow to any canooks. Good luck trieng tocollect.

[Mr-Snickers]

I'm not as interested in what you think will happen so much as YOUR OWN personal opinion on it.

[JoS]

Is my word good enough to varify that this is true? Canada has taken the softwood tarriff issue to the WTO and the highest pannel of NAFTA, who have ruled that these tarriffs are in fact a violation of the FTA between Canada and the US, and that the USDOC must stop collecting tarrifs on softwood and return all money they have collected from these tarrifs.

The USDOC has claimed Canada subsidizes the lumber industry so have implaced anti-dumping tarrifs as wella s protectionist tarrifs claiming injury to their softwood lumber industry, bot of which ahve been ruled illegal. After loosing all NAFTA appeals Bush has asked to negotiate with Canada over this, however Canada (with the backing of Mexico I would like to add) is demanding the US oblidge by these rulings, which are infact legally binding.

You dont plea bargin once you are convicted. The WTO has given Canada the green light to start a trade war with the US untill these tarrifs are removed and the money returned. The Prime Minister has hinted at the possibility of using energy, oil and gas as leverage on this issue, which will be especially damaging this winter due to domestic oil and gas production in the US being severally reduced due to hurricanes.

In short I will sum up the US trade hypocracy, I mean policy. Do as I say, not as I do.

If you expect other countries to follow rulings from these pannels, you must also respect their decisions.

And if my word is not good enough here are a few of the sources I am using for the 3rd year political economy paper I am writing on this.
Canadian Press release and summary of improtant dates
BC Lumber Council
US Site _ National association of Home Builders
Canadian Government Softwood page
CBC Softwood homepage

If you need more documents I will gladly send you some of the PDF files and Word Documents I have from the WTO and NAFTA.

[mayeram]

Us americans are bigger then cannadians, if caniadia doesnt do what we want then we CRUSH with a big club and take another 5 billion from them to teach lesson!
-president bush's plan for this situation

it kind of sucks, but i dont know if the current group in power of america is capable of diplomacy, i hope we are able to settle this in a civilized manner, but lately we have become a huge gorilla with a club bashing a globe of the earth while screaming ME LIBERATE WORLD! (great t-shirt)

[RedSkunk]

aww. canada thinks its people. isnt that cute!

[RedSkunk]

At 10/24/05 04:31 PM, mayeram wrote: ME LIBERATE WORLD! (great t-shirt)

I want that shirt.

[Me-Patch]

At 10/24/05 04:29 PM, Mr_Snickers wrote: I'm not as interested in what you think will happen so much as YOUR OWN personal opinion on it.

I personaly think that when your on top, your on top. And be it arrogant, illegal, or just plain wrong, it doesn't really matter because your'e on top.

Morality and Intelligence usually are the driving force behind the creation of laws, but power is the key to enforcement, and without enforcement all you have is a piece of paper.

[Mr-Snickers]

Im not entirely sure who the WTO or USDOC are what do their abreviations stand for

[mayeram]

WTO is the world trade organization. USDOC is the US department of commerce

[Jimsween]

Seems to me like a much better way to handle this would have been to just issue tarrifs back.

[Mr-Snickers]

Thats wat the Canadian government had been trying to convince them to do but the US seemed stubborn so Canada started using oil and gas as leverage.

[mhtbhm]

At 10/24/05 04:04 PM, Mr_Snickers wrote: I wanted to hear other peoples opinions on this specifically Americans seeing as how a poll suggests that over 75% of all Canadians agree with Paul Martins decision.

I don't think 75% of American know who Paul Martin is, and I don't think they're aware of this. My opinion is that yes, we owe you money, but you know what? We also owe tons of other people money too. We'll get to you when we're ready. Besides, 5 billion is a drop in the bucket.

[gussiejives]

My position is this: US should pay up, or we'll start trading with China instead. We mustn't tolerate any bullying by the United States if they think they don't have to honour their agreements.

[mhtbhm]

At 10/24/05 04:48 PM, gussiejives wrote: My position is this: US should pay up, or we'll start trading with China instead.

That would suck. I'd miss out on Degrassi.

[Jimsween]

At 10/24/05 04:42 PM, Mr_Snickers wrote: Thats wat the Canadian government had been trying to convince them to do but the US seemed stubborn so Canada started using oil and gas as leverage.

Why would you have to convince us for you to issue tarrifs? It's your government, you do that.

[Mr-Snickers]

China and India are coming online as oil consumers and as the two most heavily populated nations in the worlds theirs a big market their big alternatives to sell our oil to. As for the US having power. Not really. You see people like Canada we come and help them after you bomb them if you attack us you know we have more allies on our side and technically we are on the right. The 5 billion dollars is illegal. Its only a matter of time before people gang up on the US youve pissed off about everyone. The middle east, Canada, France and I think George Bush did something to piss of Germany to. Not to mention Hugo Chavez is angry at the US do to Pat Robertson which also brings up Cuba as an enemy. The US is digging themselves into a hole to seemingly protect itself but its only a matter of time before we come to and help bury it.

[JoS]

At 10/24/05 04:39 PM, mayeram wrote: WTO is the world trade organization. USDOC is the US department of commerce

Correct. Also FTA stands for Free Trade Agreement, NAFTA is North American FTA.

The reason oil prices are spiking is just like someone said, India and China are coming online as major consumers, hence the demand spike. Oil is needed essentially to develop industries, it is the lifeblood of heavy industry.

[Mr-Snickers]

Which is why the Canadian government should be taken seriously in their threat to halt oil exports. Some Americans seem to arrogant to say so what weve got plenty of oil. No so many oil refineries have been struck by hurricanes halting production. That and despite taking over Iraq an oil producing nation oil prices continue to soar.

[bcdemon]

"Because we got the bombs, that's why. Two words. Nuclear fucking weapons, OKAY?!

This is why they do the things they do, because they can.

I have said it before, they should pay up, and shoot that Byrd (The Byrd Amendment) dood for starting this crap.

[smith916]

Whether canada gives the united states oil or not doesn't matter because as long as there arn't any new refineries in america the oil is useless.

Here's an experiment for you all.

- one day when your thirsty take a large bag of cold watter and put it above your head

- poke a hole as small as a pin or somthing slightly larger, less then 1m diameter of the pole, and let the water seep into your mouth. Your not going to get very quenced very soon.

That's the problem with oil.

We have tons of crude but with the destruction of refineries we're using 30 year old out of date

[Elfer]

At 10/24/05 04:26 PM, The_Tank wrote:

At 10/24/05 04:21 PM, Elfer wrote: And now, we have the situation you see before you.

Just goes to re-affirm my point, our arrogant goverment will not bow to any canooks. Good luck trieng tocollect.

Yeah, it'll be funny as shit when California has no gas or electricity.

[LazyDrunk]

Maybe -Michael- will bump this topic soon :)