The Speech the UN should of heard

[IraqNOphobiA]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the International Community:
I speak to you today of a grave threat to the international order and peace. There is a nation among us that is an immediate danger to us all, requiring immediate action by all peace-loving countries that believe in the rule of law.

We are dealing with a nation that routinely thwarts the will of the international community, that has both possession of and continues to seek further weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons despite international laws and treaties prohibiting it.

This country has shown itself to be a belligerent force, invading sovereign nations it does not approve of with impunity and in violation of international laws and consensus. It uses its military solely to further its power over oil.

It has shown complete disregard for the safety of the international community by overthrowing legitimate governments, supporting and arming dictators, and murdering civilians by the millions.

Thousands of dissidents have disappeared in its jails without legal recourse, in contradiction to the words and spirit of its own Constitution and Bill of Rights.

It destroys its own natural resources and contributes to massive environmental destruction worldwide, while using its military force to squelch opposition to its policies.

This country has a long history of brutality and disrespect of civil rights and international law. The list of UN resolutions that it has ignored or sabotaged is nearly endless. It uses its power in the UN to aid its allies and punish its ideological adversaries with no regard for what is right, true, ethical, or in the best interests of the greater good. Even now it threatens to act with unilateral violence if the UN fails to take action it wants.

A government like this has no place in the international community.

It is for all these reasons that I call on you today to foment regime change in the United States by any means necessary. In the years to come, your actions will go down in history as a courageous people acting the interest of the world to ensure peace.

If you fail to act, the consequences are enormous, and will lead to an ever-increasing cycle of violence, and the end of peace on this planet as we know it, making the 3037 who died on September 11th appear a small tragedy in comparison.

I urge you all act now, act decisively, and act effectively—the world's safety depends on it.

[SolarisDX]

Funny, I didn't see Iraq mentioned specifically in that entire speech.

[VisaFreak]

Seems like a nice speech

[Nightshadeplus]

So true, so true. And about Iraq, the speech mentioned about the dictators that the US has given weapons to. Saddam Hussein is one of the many dictators that the US has armed to the teeth with biological and military weaponry.

[IraqNOphobiA]

At 11/23/02 01:38 PM, Nightshadeplus wrote: So true, so true. And about Iraq, the speech mentioned about the dictators that the US has given weapons to. Saddam Hussein is one of the many dictators that the US has armed to the teeth with biological and military weaponry.

Thats true, during Iraq's 8 year war with Iran it was The US who armed and trained Iraq's army. Thus building an enormous armament, only to destroy the same armament during the Gulf War.

The US supported Iraq's war against Iran (>300.000 casualties) because It would of caused a US friendly Rigime change in Iran. Iran has vast oil fields so, US friendly Rigime in Iran means Cheap Oil.
The current situation:
Iraq has vast oil fields wich the US can't touch. US friendly Rigime Change in Iraq = Cheap Oil.
Don't underestimate how important Oil is to the US
and it's Economy (for example: the petrochemical industry, Medical industry.. and ofcoure's Shell enron mobile, ford ect ect)
Without Oil America would be LOST!!

Or do you guy's really think that the hero Goerge Bush is out to save the World From Evil Saddam Hussein who wants to destroy every living thing on this planet?

[dinnersuit-sniper]

damn right. this would be especially funny if said by the current u.k. regime, rather than our government of lackys sucking up to the u.s. bastards as we are currently doing so.

[Nightshadeplus]

At 11/23/02 11:20 PM, dinnersuit_sniper wrote: damn right. this would be especially funny if said by the current u.k. regime, rather than our government of lackys sucking up to the u.s. bastards as we are currently doing so.

Oh I'm sure the US will throw the UK a bone or something to gnaw on. The UK is going to get something out of this probably if Iraq becomes a US friendly regime. Probably make a few deals with the UK on the oil pie that is Iraq that Bush wants to grab.

[random-scribble]

too bloody right, all of it.

the sad thing is, us sat in front of our computers posting messages on the NG forums is going to do about as much as if any of you got up and ran for president. there's jack all any of us can do, the only thing to do is watch and wait and laugh like a cold hearted bastard.

hell, if it was america about to be invaded by iraq, thered still be nothing you could do. either way the world could end up a better or a worse place. but you'd have no say in it.

makes you feel really cynical, doesn't it? or maybe its the fact that it's monday tomorrow. iraq, monday morning. I think I know which effects me most at the moment. but I'm just an ignorant bastard living a nice life in england while all those people are suffering under a dictatorial regieme in iraq. screw that, I'm going to enjoy it if I have it, otherwise it's going to waste.

A bit of a dis-jointed post, but its getting late.

[IraqNOphobiA]

Oh I'm sure the US will throw the UK a bone or something to gnaw on. The UK is going to get something out of this probably if Iraq becomes a US friendly regime. Probably make a few deals with the UK on the oil pie that is Iraq that Bush wants to grab.

The big fat jusy bone that Blair's getting is ofcourse tons of oil at the same low and unfair price as Bush.
Unfair, that is, to the Iraqi people.
Not only Blair but many, mostly wealthy Nato countries, wil get the same deal.
That's why if bush attacks, he wont be alone.

just try to imagine how much we depend on oil: Cars, trucks, airlines, shippind routes all run on oil.
Doctors depend on Oil for modern medicine.
Many of our great technological advancements we owe thanks to oil. Think of plastics. Your keyboard, mouse, Tv, Cd's, cell phone, actionfigures, PCP, condoms, ect ect
Modern 21st century life is unthinkable without oil.

So logically; Who ever controls the Oil, controls the world. Sounds simple doesn't it?

Now my only problem is that this oil will be bought with the blood of many Innocent Iraqi and US lives.

to find out what happens to a gulf(oil)war victim visit: http://www.gulfwarvets.com/gallery1.htm

[SolarisDX]

At 11/24/02 06:14 PM, IraqNOphobiA wrote:

Oh I'm sure the US will throw the UK a bone or something to gnaw on. The UK is going to get something out of this probably if Iraq becomes a US friendly regime. Probably make a few deals with the UK on the oil pie that is Iraq that Bush wants to grab.

The big fat jusy bone that Blair's getting is ofcourse tons of oil at the same low and unfair price as Bush.
Unfair, that is, to the Iraqi people.
Not only Blair but many, mostly wealthy Nato countries, wil get the same deal.
That's why if bush attacks, he wont be alone.

just try to imagine how much we depend on oil: Cars, trucks, airlines, shippind routes all run on oil.
Doctors depend on Oil for modern medicine.
Many of our great technological advancements we owe thanks to oil. Think of plastics. Your keyboard, mouse, Tv, Cd's, cell phone, actionfigures, PCP, condoms, ect ect
Modern 21st century life is unthinkable without oil.

So logically; Who ever controls the Oil, controls the world. Sounds simple doesn't it?

Now my only problem is that this oil will be bought with the blood of many Innocent Iraqi and US lives.

to find out what happens to a gulf(oil)war victim visit: http://www.gulfwarvets.com/gallery1.htm

Ugh... I regret clicking that link.

[IraqNOphobiA]

At 11/24/02 06:12 PM, random_scribble wrote: too bloody right, all of it.

the sad thing is, us sat in front of our computers posting messages on the NG forums is going to do about as much as if any of you got up and ran for president. there's jack all any of us can do, the only thing to do is watch and wait and laugh like a cold hearted bastard.

hell, if it was america about to be invaded by iraq, thered still be nothing you could do. either way the world could end up a better or a worse place. but you'd have no say in it.

makes you feel really cynical, doesn't it? or maybe its the fact that it's monday tomorrow. iraq, monday morning. I think I know which effects me most at the moment. but I'm just an ignorant bastard living a nice life in england while all those people are suffering under a dictatorial regieme in iraq. screw that, I'm going to enjoy it if I have it, otherwise it's going to waste.

A bit of a dis-jointed post, but its getting late.

You must be high if you think that we're sitting behind our PC's posting forums to change the world!
Nothing is less true.. We're expressing our Freedom. (That is, freedom of speech, boy, SO JUST WATCH WHAT YOU SAY!!)
The very same freedom that you're enjoying living your nice little life in england and it's freedom we enjoy posting our comments on NG. So who's wasting what?
If everybody looked the other way like U, didn't give a shit what happend, to people somewhere far far away. Well I'm pretty sure you'd be talking German right now!

I'm just expressing my freedom of speech, so I can tell the dickheads in power, like Bob Marley once sead; "U can fool some people sometime, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

So enjoy your life and please stay a cynical little bastard. I'm one and I know i'm enjoying it! :-)

[Avary]

Iraq's army is equipped with soviet weapons (small arms, tanks, artillery, aircrafts, missiles, air defence, missile boats and so on), using soviet tactics, command structure and organisation. Iraqi weapons that are not soviet-made come mostly from China and some from France. During the Iran-Irak war soviet advisors trained the iraqi army and some officers went to military academies of soviet client states.

[MarijuanaClock]

At 11/23/02 01:38 PM, Nightshadeplus wrote: So true, so true. And about Iraq, the speech mentioned about the dictators that the US has given weapons to. Saddam Hussein is one of the many dictators that the US has armed to the teeth with biological and military weaponry.

Over 50 to be exact. Not just arms though, capital, funds, training, arms, ect...

If you hand out weapons to the world do you expect them to play nicely?

[Avary]

Arms suppliers to most Third-world nations are Soviet Union/Russia, China, and France. With the exeption of Gabon, Ghana and South Africa all african nations are armed, equipped drilled and organised with soviet weapons, equipment and tactics, with a notable influence from France, and some from Great Britain.

[IraqNOphobiA]

Now lets get things straight, the discussion was about Iraq and the FACT that The US trained and Armed Iraq.

- you said: "Iraq is equipped with soviet weaponary".

This is correct. But the one, small&tiny, detail you forgot to mention is that these weapons were(mostly) funded by the US and Saudi Arabia. Isn't funding arms is the same us supling arms?
It's not the first time the US have played this game. Examples; Cambodiya(70ties), Vietnam(early years), Praag(80ties), Cuba(30ties), Chilli(80ties), Afganistan(80ties) and even in The Soviet Union(just after the October revolution, during the "whites/reds" war in the 20ties).

you said: "the Iran-Irak war soviet advisors trained the iraqi army and some officers went to military academies of soviet client states".

I didn't know this(if it's true). But did you know that both sides(US&Iraq) admitted that US special forces trained Iraqi soldiers during the Iran-Iraq war of the 80ties?( and that this has even been added to history books)

You said: Arms suppliers to most Third-world nations are Soviet Union/Russia, China, and France.

You're probably right, But During the Iran-Iraq war and up to desert storm. Iraq was one of the richest gulfstates and surely not a developing/Third world nation. 90% of it's income came through export of Oil. After desert storm, Iraq's pipe lines were cut off and with this it's income. Turning it into a Third-world Nation and starving it's people.

[Avary]

At 11/29/02 10:15 AM, IraqNOphobiA wrote: Now lets get things straight, the discussion was about Iraq and the FACT that The US trained and Armed Iraq.

- you said: "Iraq is equipped with soviet weaponary".

This is correct. But the one, small&tiny, detail you forgot to mention is that these weapons were(mostly) funded by the US and Saudi Arabia. Isn't funding arms is the same us supling arms?
It's not the first time the US have played this game. Examples; Cambodiya(70ties), Vietnam(early years), Praag(80ties), Cuba(30ties), Chilli(80ties), Afganistan(80ties) and even in The Soviet Union(just after the October revolution, during the "whites/reds" war in the 20ties).

As for the Whites/Reds conflict, Canada sent troops to Russia to fight the commies in 1919-21 too. As far as financing and aiding regimes around the world, the list of cruel dictatorships under Comblock protection would easily pass the 100 mark. Most notable are North Korea, Cuba, Albania, Hungary, Czekoslovakia, East Germany, Poland, Yugoslavia, Mozambique, North Vietnam, Cambodia (under the Khmer Rouges one of the most murderous regimes in history), Laos, Lybia, Syria, Angola and Algeria. Not to mention the even much longer list of terrorist organizations funded, supplied, trained, and supervised by the commies. Around the world and in the hearth of Europe too (IRA, Red brigades, Red Army Faction and so on).

you said: "the Iran-Irak war soviet advisors trained the iraqi army and some officers went to military academies of soviet client states".

Saddam went to military academy in Syria, back when Syria was a Soviet ally. Romania, India, Syria and Yugoslavia trained Iraqi staff officers for years before the embargo.

I didn't know this(if it's true). But did you know that both sides(US&Iraq) admitted that US special forces trained Iraqi soldiers during the Iran-Iraq war of the 80ties?( and that this has even been added to history books)

The US shared intelligence with Iraq, without which Iran would have overrun Iraq like the Germans over Norway, Danemark, Belgium, Holland and France in 1941. Back then Iran posed the major threath to stability in the region. And this region of the world is pretty much as volatile as the "Balkan Powderkeg" prior to World War I.

You said: Arms suppliers to most Third-world nations are Soviet Union/Russia, China, and France.

You're probably right, But During the Iran-Iraq war and up to desert storm. Iraq was one of the richest gulfstates and surely not a developing/Third world nation. 90% of it's income came through export of Oil. After desert storm, Iraq's pipe lines were cut off and with this it's income. Turning it into a Third-world Nation and starving it's people.

What you are saying isn't wrong, and in fact quite sensible. The thing that bugs me is that you want to heap all of the world's evils onto the USA. What I want to point out is that there are worst people out there.

That's right, the US can and will at times do bad things. But contrary to the Communists, the US have done much for the good of the world. They saved the world from the Nazis, liberating Europe in 1944-45, amonst other things.

[IraqNOphobiA]

You said;

“As for the Whites/Reds conflict, Canada sent troops to Russia to fight the commies in 1919-21 too. As far as financing and aiding regimes around the world, the list of cruel dictatorships under Comblock protection would easily pass the 100 mark. Most notable are North Korea, Cuba, Albania, Hungary, Czekoslovakia, East Germany, Poland, Yugoslavia, Mozambique, North Vietnam, Cambodia (under the Khmer Rouges one of the most murderous regimes in history), Laos, Lybia, Syria, Angola and Algeria. Not to mention the even much longer list of terrorist organizations funded, supplied, trained, and supervised by the commies. Around the world and in the hearth of Europe too (IRA, Red brigades, Red Army Faction and so on).”

You're talking about the deeds of the Communists during the coldwar. I coundn't agree with you more!
I'm not defending the former USSR. I didn't even mention it. Please dont forget that during the Coldwar both sides protected as many cruel dictatorships as possible.
Both sides represented great and noble ideals. Not one lived by them.

You said;

“ The US shared intelligence with Iraq, without which Iran would have overrun Iraq like the Germans over Norway, Danemark, Belgium, Holland and France in 1941. Back then Iran posed the major threath to stability in the region. And this region of the world is pretty much as volatile as the "Balkan Powderkeg" prior to World War I.”

Did Iran pose a threat to the region? I don’t think so. The only threat was to Western trade relations and that, sadly, is enough to start(fund /support) a war. Iraq didn’t attack Iran because it posed a threat. Iraq attacked because it would create a solution to Iraq’s socalled “Landlocked” position. Iraq is completly “landlocked” with exception of a mostly “useless” coastline < 19 km, with no harbours. This makes Iraq vunrable because it depend’s on pipelines. Pipelines that can be cut off, at any time, by neighbouring countries. Why do you think Iraq’s offencive concentraded on the south of Iran(its coastline and harbours)? This is, the very same reason, why Iraq attacked Kuweit.
I dont see any link to WWII though.

you said;

“What you are saying isn't wrong, and in fact quite sensible. The thing that bugs me is that you want to heap all of the world's evils onto the USA. What I want to point out is that there are worst people out there.
That's right, the US can and will at times do bad things. But contrary to the Communists, the US have done much for the good of the world. They saved the world from the Nazis, liberating Europe in 1944-45, amonst other things”

Contrary to the Communists? = ????
I’m not dening that the Us (and Canada) played a dicisive role in WWII.
But the Communists payed the ultimate price for liberating the world from the nazi’s.
20 million ‘Commies’ , mostly soldiers, lost thier lives on the battlefields helping Russia break the axis spine! WWII was Truely a War of Good agaist pure Evil. 6 million jews and 5 million ethnic minorities (including Homosexuals) were savagely murdered in concentrations camps. I would urge you not to compare the Noble deeds of WWII to a vulgar OIL-war!
If you’ve gotten the Idea that I “want to heap all of the world's evils onto the USA” from my reactions;
my humble appologies. I must say; It’s nice to meet someone who’s done his homework. Respect!

All I’m trying to say is that;
Bush’s Crusade against Iraq isn’t about Good vs. Evil. He’s not out to save the world, he’s out to save his own!

Keep an open mind, someone once siad and I quote;
“ the human mind is like an umbrella, it’s best used when open”

[IraqNOphobiA]

Pardon my english.. again :-(

[wdfcverfgtghm]

That speech looks more like a angsty 7th grader turning in a paper for his debate homework.

[IraqNOphobiA]

Well, now that u mentioned it, thats what it actually is.... :-P

[EmeraldNiteMare]

Very observant, Anarchy_Penguin. That was a badly versed and uninformantive speech, that could have been attacked on all sides. If it were a speech for some resolution, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pass.

[IraqNOphobiA]

The Speech was intended to help people think about US-government policies .. to start a discussion. Not to complain, Not pass a resolution or hurt any kids feelings but, some people I gues, just cant think or dont like the truth because the Truth hurts...

[EmeraldNiteMare]

I know...I was just pointing out it wasn't too well written, and wouldn't have really done much, and thus not a speech the Un should of heard, but one they could have.

And the speech didn't exactly help people in thinking about US goverment policies, as most people, I'm assuming, already know all that. It's just a repetition of what others have stated over and over again in this forum.

[IraqNOphobiA]

I know the subject bad-bush is getting old.
This topic was made for a more actual subject; The upcomming war in Iraq.

As for my english skillz.. well I'm from the Netherlands and I thought it wasn't all that bad for a Dutchman. :)

[EmeraldNiteMare]

heheh...alrite then :)

[Arekanderu]

At 11/22/02 10:18 AM, IraqNOphobiA wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen of the International Community:
I speak to you today of a grave threat to the intern.......

It hard to tell if this speech is for Iraq or the US

[TheKingPin]

At 12/23/02 06:17 AM, Arekanderu wrote:

At 11/22/02 10:18 AM, IraqNOphobiA wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen of the International Community:
I speak to you today of a grave threat to the intern.......

It hard to tell if this speech is for Iraq or the US

IT clearly states in one of the botom lines;

"It is for all these reasons that I call on you today to foment regime change in the --> United States <-- by any means necessary. In the years to come, your actions will go down in history as a courageous people acting the interest of the world to ensure peace."

It is confusing because everthing the US is acusing Iraq of, it has done itself.. a typical case of the pot calling the kettle black!(not that I'm against the war, saddam should be stopped.)

Note;
Wtf are you talking about? badly writen? U guys must be fucking english professors or something, cause only then do u have the right to judge this speech in such way.. I'm american and I couldn't of done any better..

[Arekanderu]

That's right, the US can and will at times do bad things. But contrary to the Communists, the US have done much for the good of the world. They saved the world from the Nazis, liberating Europe in 1944-45, amonst other things.

Well actualy Germany lost the war the minute it atacked Russia,even if U.S hadn't done anything germany would have lost.And yes U.S has done a lot of good things but it did them only because it was in it's interest.And who knows if it has done more good or bad to the world