Poor america? Well, look at Dresden

[Austrian-Mats]

Hello everybody.

Well, I've just read some of these articles you've posted here. Good.

You know, I like America. I don't know one, but I'm sure you've got nice people. And you're got a beatiful country. really.

But what bothers me a bit is how you concern about other counties. Hurrikane Katrina was a disaster, it's true. But ehat about this recent earthquake in Pakistan? Nobody writes thinks about it anymore. Okay, 30,000 pakistani aren't THAT much causalities. They're just Pakistani.
I can understand that.
But what wonders me a bit was the media rumbles about the 11th September. Yeah, I know that it was a terroristical attack. And every victim is tragic, really. But I do not understand why everywhere in the world there was such a great rumble! Hm, I guess that's something about the twin towers.
But if the US start an attack against any country, there isn't so much attention. Remember Sudan 1998? I bet you don't. There was a pharmacy factory opened in Sudan. It could have produced loads of medication for middle africa. But, for some wicked reason (money, I guess?) america assumed a factory for biological and chemical weapons. And boom, a "preventorial strike" against this factory of evil followed. F-16 (they're cool. really) bombed the whole place down. 800 deaths. After that, the UN sent some scientists to investigate the ruins and search for waepons. And guess what they foun? Right. Nothing. Ooops, bad luck for Sudan. Well, shit happens.

Oh and here's something for both the brits and the Americans:
Do you know Dresden? Maybe you do. And maybe you've learned in History of the glorious bomber attack against Hitler-Germany. How much victims did they tell you? 35,00? 40,000? At least I have been told so in history. And the reasons for that attack: To lower the morality of the German people. Yeah, this bombing was really necessary. I mean, look at the facts! Dresden was a threat! A hospital city to care for wounded and homeless families! and don't tell me shit, the industry was somewhere else in the underground!
So you, the Brits and the Americans, made the attack. and here's a little calculation for you. There where 1,2 millions of people pressed in a town for 500,000 people. 30-50 people in every house in the inner city! 12,000 houses of the inner city were destroyed. hm, there where temperatures of about 1600°C at the surface. Sand was molten to glass. God bless phosphorus bombs! Most of the people in the inner city died because of the heat-even in the bunkers! uhh yeah, the Blockbuster-Bombs let their lounges burst! I don't know how America and great britian can dare to write such wrong death polls about it! the official report of the Wehrmacht to this attack was:

"35.000 dead were fully, 50.000 dead partially, and 168.000 not identified."

Hmm and now tell me what remains of a human body if there's a heat of 1600 degrees for several hours. What happens? Dust! Dust remains. And nothing else. so there where at least... 250,000 death. Less than 100 dead ones were Wehrmacht members."

And what did the Brits do? Apologize? Nooo.... they made a memorial for the responsible Guy "Bomber" Harris!!! Yeah! Of course! Hail Göring, Destroyer of Coventry!! Let's make a memorial! (btw: 800 victims in Coventry. Well, that's what I call revenge!!)

I know that the Germans did horrible cimes to the civilians in the East of Europe and I'm sooo glad that they catched most of the responsible assholes. But it's an IMPUDANCE to ignore the crimes the Aliies did to the German people!!!

Holocaust? awww.... yeah... well.... 1,000,000 victims?
9/11 hhmmmm wait.... 900 victims?

What would you say if newspaers and so on wrote shit like that??? You wouldn't be glad, woud you?

So... thanks for losing your time with this post! Hm I don't know if there will be any answers... I guess you're good in ignoring? Well, let's see. I like the americans though. and the brits too. Honest.

Oh, and here's one last quote of my personal friend Churchill when planning the bomber attack against Dresden: "I would not like to have suggestions, how we can destroy war-important
goals in the surrounding countryside of Dresden, i would like have
suggestions , how we can roast 600.000 Refugees from Breslau."

Have a nice day!

Greez from Austria (not Australia!)

[RedSkunk]

Hey, a few points, and a welcome to the BBS. First Austrian I've seen on here, want to try and keep you around. ;-)

At 10/18/05 05:53 PM, mats_88 wrote: But what bothers me a bit is how you concern about other counties. Hurrikane Katrina was a disaster, it's true. But ehat about this recent earthquake in Pakistan? Nobody writes thinks about it anymore. Okay, 30,000 pakistani aren't THAT much causalities. They're just Pakistani.
I can understand that.

I don't understand it, but it also doesn't seem to be a uniquely American trait. And I'm not just talking about concern for one's own people - that's obviously natural. But I'm currently studying in Europe, and one day, I caught CNN International. They were talking about a boating accident in a lake near where I live, back in the states. All thirty, dead.

I swear, the next morning, I caught a little bit more of CNN. And they were still talking about the boating accident. This was.. in Hungary for gods sakes.

9/11...... But if the US start an attack against any country, there isn't so much attention. Remember Sudan 1998? I bet you don't. ...Right. Nothing. Ooops, bad luck for Sudan. Well, shit happens.

Points taken. Not going to address at this time. Someone else undoubtably will.

Do you know Dresden?

Yeah. It keeps coming up for me, been reading a lot of Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. lately. There is a quote by Vonnegut, that goes something to the effect that the only person who gained anything from the Dresden firebombing, was him - in the form of The Slaughterhouse 5.

Atrocities were committed by all sides in WW2. One has to understand that there was this period, however, where it was perfectly acceptable to attack civilian populations. Look at the two nuclear bombs dropped on Japan fer chrissakes. International law dictating rules of war were only created following WW2. Mostly because everyone saw how horrible that war was.

Have a nice day!

Friendly chap, eh?

[gussiejives]

Yes, I know of Dresden. I agree that people should pay more attention to it as its casuality rate was more than both nuclear attacks on Japan combined. Kurt Vonnegut's description of Dresden looking like the moon after the firebombing is particularily chilling.

But what I think really is forgotten is the Japanese slaughter in China during the Second World War. The Japanese hatred of the Chinese was so strong that they decapitated and mutilated the men, raped then decapitated the women and I don't want to think about what they did to the children. "The Rape of Nanking" they call it. I believe only recently, as in the past year, have they actually apologized for their atrocities.

[Jimsween]

At 10/18/05 05:53 PM, mats_88 wrote: But what bothers me a bit is how you concern about other counties. Hurrikane Katrina was a disaster, it's true. But ehat about this recent earthquake in Pakistan? Nobody writes thinks about it anymore. Okay, 30,000 pakistani aren't THAT much causalities. They're just Pakistani.

We talked about that Sri Lanka thing forever though. It's not that we aren't sympathetic, but that many disasters in a row, and with one right before happening to us, is just tedious. It's perfectly normal not to care as much.

But what wonders me a bit was the media rumbles about the 11th September. Yeah, I know that it was a terroristical attack. And every victim is tragic, really. But I do not understand why everywhere in the world there was such a great rumble! Hm, I guess that's something about the twin towers.

Because that one was murder, a murder always causes more of a stir than a death from natural causes.

But if the US start an attack against any country, there isn't so much attention. Remember Sudan 1998? I bet you don't. There was a pharmacy factory opened in Sudan. It could have produced loads of medication for middle africa. But, for some wicked reason (money, I guess?) america assumed a factory for biological and chemical weapons. And boom, a "preventorial strike" against this factory of evil followed. F-16 (they're cool. really) bombed the whole place down. 800 deaths. After that, the UN sent some scientists to investigate the ruins and search for waepons. And guess what they foun? Right. Nothing. Ooops, bad luck for Sudan. Well, shit happens.

Why would you automatically assume it was for money? Theres absolutely no evidence to suggest that. It's much more likely that it was simply a mistake upon the part of the CIA. Either that or the factory was at some point used for VX but wasn't at the time of the bombing (which would explain the soil samples. Either way the only real mistake the government made was recklessness, which could easily be excused by the fact that it was a retaliation strike.

Nevertheless, the strike killed 225, not 800.

Do you know Dresden? Maybe you do. And maybe you've learned in History of the glorious bomber attack against Hitler-Germany. How much victims did they tell you? 35,00? 40,000? At least I have been told so in history. And the reasons for that attack: To lower the morality of the German people. Yeah, this bombing was really necessary. I mean, look at the facts! Dresden was a threat! A hospital city to care for wounded and homeless families! and don't tell me shit, the industry was somewhere else in the underground!

Why is Dresden any worse than Tokyo? Or Berlin? Or London? None of those were really about military value. The fact is, the German people supported the NAZI regime, the German people were the enemy. Yes they were civilians, but they were by no means innocent.

Could the war have been won without it? Yes. Could it have made the war shorter? Yes. Could it have saved the lives of Americans? Yes.

If it saved only 1,000 Allied soldiers, it was justified.

I know that the Germans did horrible cimes to the civilians in the East of Europe and I'm sooo glad that they catched most of the responsible assholes. But it's an IMPUDANCE to ignore the crimes the Aliies did to the German people!!!

What crimes? The German people started the war.

Holocaust? awww.... yeah... well.... 1,000,000 victims?

10 million.

9/11 hhmmmm wait.... 900 victims?

3,000.

[MortifiedPenguins]

"All's fair in love and war"

yes i know it was horrible but both sides did these things. How come no one ever talks about the german bombings of london then eh. But serioulsy this was war and it will always be like that

[LegendaryLukus]

tell me again how many jews you killed?

I don't really have an argument against Dresden, but I am not about to let you get an a high horse about it. Everyone did some cruel shit in that war.

[ShitstormLX]

Lesson of the story DO NOT put your munitions factories in civilian population centers or else you're asking for genocide

[Demosthenez]

At 10/18/05 09:15 PM, LegendaryLukus wrote: tell me again how many jews you killed?

I don't really have an argument against Dresden, but I am not about to let you get an a high horse about it. Everyone did some cruel shit in that war.

Yeah, I mean, hell. How can you bitch out the English and Americans for Dresden and your countries slaughtered Russians and Poles and Jews and basically everyone you didnt like.

I certainly dont see how you could even TRY to take the moral high ground.

And hows this for terror stries, the Buzz Bombs and bombing of London. What was the purposes for those? Strike important targets, namely civilian houses?

[SomeKindOfMonster]

you have to know something about our media here....they are only looking for ratings. and katrina gets more ratings then pakistan. the only thing on their mind is reporting things that will give them good ratings. and the media is evil. just like our polotics. well they are evil and stupid. especially the head cheese.

[LegendaryLukus]

At 10/19/05 12:49 AM, Metallica4ever wrote: you have to know something about our media here....they are only looking for ratings. and katrina gets more ratings then pakistan. the only thing on their mind is reporting things that will give them good ratings. and the media is evil. just like our polotics. well they are evil and stupid. especially the head cheese.

well also theres the fact that Katrina happened in America. so the American media might just cover the thing that happened in America more than the thing that happened in Pakistan.

[RedSkunk]

At 10/18/05 09:15 PM, LegendaryLukus wrote: tell me again how many jews you killed?

Wait, how many Jews have you killed?

What sort of stupid fucking question is that?

[gussiejives]

At 10/18/05 06:46 PM, Jimsween wrote:

At 10/18/05 05:53 PM, mats_88 wrote:

Why is Dresden any worse than Tokyo? Or Berlin? Or London? None of those were really about military value. The fact is, the German people supported the NAZI regime, the German people were the enemy. Yes they were civilians, but they were by no means innocent.

Could the war have been won without it? Yes. Could it have made the war shorter? Yes. Could it have saved the lives of Americans? Yes.

If it saved only 1,000 Allied soldiers, it was justified.

I know that the Germans did horrible cimes to the civilians in the East of Europe and I'm sooo glad that they catched most of the responsible assholes. But it's an IMPUDANCE to ignore the crimes the Aliies did to the German people!!!

What crimes? The German people started the war.

Holocaust? awww.... yeah... well.... 1,000,000 victims?

10 million.

9/11 hhmmmm wait.... 900 victims?

3,000.

The German people didn't support the Nazi regime, at least not by the middle of the war. My grandfather was drafted into the Luftwaffe and he HATED the Nazis. You really need to make the distinction between the people and its government because Nazi Germany wasn't a democracy. The soldiers' purpose was to fight the war whether they believed in it or not. The people of Dresden were not soldiers, they were not Nazis, at least not by choice. They should not have been punished for Hitler's crimes.

Dresden, Tokyo, London and Berlin were all about military targets. Dresden just happened to have a huge amount of collateral damage associated with civilian deaths. The Doolittle raids of Tokyo were about destroying the munitions factories. The Battle of Britain was meant to eliminate the RAF by bombing airfields, but Goering chose to bomb civilian targets because he was a moron.

As for the holocaust, yes it was horrific murder of 6 million innocent people and it was a war crime. But the killing of Dresden's population is no different. 6 million, 130 000, the crime is the same. 9/11 was just as terrible, but there is no reason to make it more dramatic than it really was.

[Jimsween]

At 10/19/05 11:13 AM, gussiejives wrote: The German people didn't support the Nazi regime, at least not by the middle of the war. My grandfather was drafted into the Luftwaffe and he HATED the Nazis. You really need to make the distinction between the people and its government because Nazi Germany wasn't a democracy. The soldiers' purpose was to fight the war whether they believed in it or not. The people of Dresden were not soldiers, they were not Nazis, at least not by choice. They should not have been punished for Hitler's crimes.

They put Hitler in power just like everyone else. And no, the Germans did not hate Hitler, espescially by the middle of the war, if they really did they would have had many opportunities to kill him when he was in public places but they never did. And at that, changing your mind only when you start to lose the war, doesn't make the Germans any more innocent.

Dresden, Tokyo, London and Berlin were all about military targets. Dresden just happened to have a huge amount of collateral damage associated with civilian deaths. The Doolittle raids of Tokyo were about destroying the munitions factories. The Battle of Britain was meant to eliminate the RAF by bombing airfields, but Goering chose to bomb civilian targets because he was a moron.

None of those were military targets. They were all strategic, meant to attack factories and lower the moral of the civilian populace. Only maybe Berlin could be considered at all tactical.

As for the holocaust, yes it was horrific murder of 6 million innocent people and it was a war crime. But the killing of Dresden's population is no different. 6 million, 130 000, the crime is the same. 9/11 was just as terrible, but there is no reason to make it more dramatic than it really was.

It is completely different. The holocaust was a genocide, it was an unprovoked murder, fueled by racism. The bombing of Dresden was a stategic strike against a major city of a country that declared war against us.

[LegendaryLukus]

At 10/19/05 07:51 AM, red_skunk wrote:

At 10/18/05 09:15 PM, LegendaryLukus wrote: tell me again how many jews you killed?

Wait, how many Jews have you killed?

What sort of stupid fucking question is that?

Ok, firstly, you obviously don't have an argument of your own in this topic, so go somewhere else.

Secondly, I am not accusing this guy of killing Jews. I was asking how many Jews were killed by Nazi Germany during WWII. If you couldn't pick that one up, then you're are a lost cause

[RedSkunk]

At 10/19/05 03:49 PM, LegendaryLukus wrote: Ok, firstly, you obviously don't have an argument of your own in this topic, so go somewhere else.

Argument? What argument? There are so many topics, and new tangents with every post, there is nothing to debate. The topic starter raised half a dozen different issues at the beginning - it's a broad, meandering discussion. And to that extent, you must of missed my first post, in your haste to post stupidity. A five second google would of taken care of your "question".

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

At 10/19/05 01:07 PM, Jimsween wrote: They put Hitler in power just like everyone else. And no, the Germans did not hate Hitler, espescially by the middle of the war, if they really did they would have had many opportunities to kill him when he was in public places but they never did.

I'm sorry but that is the biggest load of horse crap I have ever heard. You can not say that just because the German people elcted Hitler to power that they were all Nazis. Nor can you say just becaus ethye didn't get rid of him means that they all supported him. The logic in that is so flawed it make sme want to be sick.

The fact is that not everyone even voted for HItler in the elections do you can't generalise on that point, nor can you say that jsut because the german people didn't get rid of him that it means thye supporte dhim. I'm sure there were a very large number of communist Germans , Jews Blakc people and a large portion of the austria ( As it was a multi racial country at the time) that would love to debate whetehr or not the WHOLE of germany supported the Nazis.

To show you how flawed your statement is let me put it in a way you might understand.

Using your logic the American public voted Bush into power, thereofre becuase they haven't got rid of him and they elected him they are all in favour of the War in IRaq.

Now you and I both know that the Americna public aren't 100% behind ANYTHING let alone the war in Iraq.

By your logic they are all in favour of it and its justified if another plane goes flying into a sky scraper becuase you attacked a middle eastern counry.

It is completely different. The holocaust was a genocide, it was an unprovoked murder, fueled by racism.

The Jews are not a race of peoples...unless your'e Hitler or one of his supporters that is.

[Dash-Underscore-Dash]

At 10/19/05 03:54 PM, red_skunk wrote: And to that extent, you must of missed my first post, in your haste to post stupidity. A five second google would of taken care of your "question".

I think that was a rhetorical question.

[Dash-Underscore-Dash]

Oh BTW, I don't give a fuck about what happened in Dresden 20 years ago. Until now, I never even head of it. War is war, get over it.

[LegendaryLukus]

At 10/19/05 03:54 PM, red_skunk wrote:

At 10/19/05 03:49 PM, LegendaryLukus wrote: Ok, firstly, you obviously don't have an argument of your own in this topic, so go somewhere else.

Argument? What argument? There are so many topics, and new tangents with every post, there is nothing to debate. The topic starter raised half a dozen different issues at the beginning - it's a broad, meandering discussion. And to that extent, you must of missed my first post, in your haste to post stupidity. A five second google would of taken care of your "question".

what I was saying is that he cannot start having a go at our actions in the war, when his own country comitted its own atrocities....do you follow? I am sorry but you are quite dim if you didn't pick that up

[RedSkunk]

At 10/19/05 04:21 PM, lollerskaters wrote: I think that was a rhetorical question.

Does that make it any more worthwhile or relevant?

[RedSkunk]

At 10/19/05 04:24 PM, LegendaryLukus wrote: what I was saying is that he cannot start having a go at our actions in the war, when his own country comitted its own atrocities....do you follow? I am sorry but you are quite dim if you didn't pick that up

No, you seem to be the "dim" one. And that is putting it quite nicely. Because by your logic, no one who was involved in WW2 should say anything about it, because there were misdoings by all involved. Additionally, the guy is fucking sixteen years old. I might as well tell you to shut your stupid little trap because of what America did to the Native Americans.

[Jimsween]

At 10/19/05 04:18 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I'm sorry but that is the biggest load of horse crap I have ever heard. You can not say that just because the German people elcted Hitler to power that they were all Nazis. Nor can you say just becaus ethye didn't get rid of him means that they all supported him. The logic in that is so flawed it make sme want to be sick.

I never said that at all, so your point is moot.

By your logic they are all in favour of it and its justified if another plane goes flying into a sky scraper becuase you attacked a middle eastern counry.

Thats not at all the same. Germany declared war on America to take it over and exterminate its minorities and provide more room for Germans. The US never tried to take over Iraq, all actions can be thought of as in good faith.

The Jews are not a race of peoples...unless your'e Hitler or one of his supporters that is.

Nice one, call me a nazi, real mature. Anyone with a brain can assume I meant hebrew, and not the religion.

[LegendaryLukus]

At 10/19/05 04:28 PM, red_skunk wrote:

At 10/19/05 04:24 PM, LegendaryLukus wrote: what I was saying is that he cannot start having a go at our actions in the war, when his own country comitted its own atrocities....do you follow? I am sorry but you are quite dim if you didn't pick that up

No, you seem to be the "dim" one. And that is putting it quite nicely. Because by your logic, no one who was involved in WW2 should say anything about it, because there were misdoings by all involved. Additionally, the guy is fucking sixteen years old. I might as well tell you to shut your stupid little trap because of what America did to the Native Americans.

Nice comeback. I think we are all getting dumber by just reading your posts.

And yes it is fine to talk about it, I didn't say otherwise. What exactly is your view in this topic, I don't think I caught it.

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

At 10/19/05 04:29 PM, Jimsween wrote: I never said that at all, so your point is moot.

They put Hitler in power just like everyone else. And no, the Germans did not hate Hitler, espescially by the middle of the war, if they really did they would have had many opportunities to kill him when he was in public places but they never did. And at that, changing your mind only when you start to lose the war, doesn't make the Germans any more innocent.

You typed that didn't you? From what you typed I get the impression that you think that the Germans didn't hate hitler,that there wasn't a little thing called the GERMAN RESITANCE that fought against hitler and becuase they didn't get rid of him they all supported him and therefore the war.

If that's not what you meant then bloody well make yourself clearer. But even if I did interpret what ou said incorrectly you still said that the GErmans deserved to get what happened to them becuase they elected Hitler...which is still an idiotic thing to say in my opinion.

Thats not at all the same. Germany declared war on America to take it over and exterminate its minorities and provide more room for Germans. The US never tried to take over Iraq, all actions can be thought of as in good faith.

As far as I'm aware Germany didn't declare war on America at all( at leats not untill they had allied themselves with BRitian France etc). America got involved in WW2 after pearl harbour. They joined on the side of the allies cause they were opposed to Japan.

And the fatc that the actual reaosns for the wars differ doesn't matter. The fact still remains that using the logic that you implied (or I thoguht you were implying if I am indeed mistakne about what you meant) that all of America should be held responsible for the war in iraq ven if they did oppose it.

Nice one, call me a nazi, real mature. Anyone with a brain can assume I meant hebrew, and not the religion.

My apologies if you thought I was callign a nazi. I didn't mean to all you one and I realsie that the way that I phrased what I said was probably a bad wya of putitng it.

What I was trying to do was correct you on something that, when disscussing the holocaust and Hitler, is pretty damn important. If Hitler hadn't viewed the Jews as a race then he probably wouldn't have persecuted them as much as they wouldn't have fitted in with his ideas of Social Darwinism as thye wouldn't have been at the bototm of the food chain(for lack of a better term).

And if you don't want people to make mistakes with what you sya then bloody well be blatant. If you mean Hebrew then say it. Stop Pussy footing around and stop assuming that everyone will automatically know what you mean when you use a word in a certain context.

Especially as Hebrew and Jew are not always the same thing. Hebrews tend to be Jewish but not all Jews are Hebrew as people can covert to Judaism no matter what their ancestral background is.

[RedSkunk]

At 10/19/05 04:33 PM, LegendaryLukus wrote: And yes it is fine to talk about it, I didn't say otherwise. What exactly is your view in this topic, I don't think I caught it.

Maybe if you were reading the thread instead of simply making snide remarks you would of caught it. Now either contribute something useful or reply to someone else. Because I'm bored.

[WillPostForFood]

agreed. americans always feel sorry for themselves when worse things happen every day that they caused.

[LegendaryLukus]

At 10/19/05 04:56 PM, red_skunk wrote: Maybe if you were reading the thread instead of simply making snide remarks you would of caught it. Now either contribute something useful or reply to someone else. Because I'm bored.

Oh and by the way, I am not American. And I don't think you should be let off that easily. you started this argument, now learn to live with it. you called my question stupid, I think it has a lot of validity.

What I was trying to say is that if you live by the sword, you must learn to die by the sword. Bombings of Britain (not just London, but my hometown and many norther cities), The holocaust, Vengeance weapons at the end of WWII that had no tactical purpose other than to cause death, the deaths of countless on the Eastern Front and many more. These are some of the atrocities committed by the Nazi's.

I do not deny that the bombing of Dresden was an atrocity too, but as I say, if you are going to dish it out, don't be suprised when you get something back in return.

Now everyone else seemed to realise what I was saying when I asked 'How many JEws did you (THE NAZI'S) kill?' I am not blaming some 16 year old Austrian lad for the crimes of his grandfathers, I am saying don't point fingers.

[Jimsween]

At 10/19/05 04:52 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: You typed that didn't you? From what you typed I get the impression that you think that the Germans didn't hate hitler,that there wasn't a little thing called the GERMAN RESITANCE that fought against hitler and becuase they didn't get rid of him they all supported him and therefore the war.

Saying the Germans did not hate Hitler is not at all the same as saying that no germans hated Hitler. It's a generalization.

And as for resistance movements, there were little. The only ones that really resisted were some small communist ones. And there was an assasination plot near the end of the war by a group of German aristocrats, but thats pretty much it.

If that's not what you meant then bloody well make yourself clearer. But even if I did interpret what ou said incorrectly you still said that the GErmans deserved to get what happened to them becuase they elected Hitler...which is still an idiotic thing to say in my opinion.

If you elect a party and a man who state openly state that they will invade other countries in order to gain living space and will 'purify' the race, you must be held responsible when they do exactly that.

As far as I'm aware Germany didn't declare war on America at all( at leats not untill they had allied themselves with BRitian France etc). America got involved in WW2 after pearl harbour. They joined on the side of the allies cause they were opposed to Japan.

Nope, Germany declared war on America, December 11th, 1941.

And the fatc that the actual reaosns for the wars differ doesn't matter. The fact still remains that using the logic that you implied (or I thoguht you were implying if I am indeed mistakne about what you meant) that all of America should be held responsible for the war in iraq ven if they did oppose it.

Hardly the same thing for reasons stated above.

What I was trying to do was correct you on something that, when disscussing the holocaust and Hitler, is pretty damn important. If Hitler hadn't viewed the Jews as a race then he probably wouldn't have persecuted them as much as they wouldn't have fitted in with his ideas of Social Darwinism as thye wouldn't have been at the bototm of the food chain(for lack of a better term).

Then he would have just persecuted the Hebrews.....

And if you don't want people to make mistakes with what you sya then bloody well be blatant. If you mean Hebrew then say it. Stop Pussy footing around and stop assuming that everyone will automatically know what you mean when you use a word in a certain context.

I never said that the jews were a race, nor did I say jews. I said it was murder fueled by racism. I never said racism against jews.

[Demosthenez]

At 10/19/05 04:28 PM, red_skunk wrote: I might as well tell you to shut your stupid little trap because of what America did to the Native Americans.

skunk, he is the one who started the inane comparisons comparing 9/11 to Dresden and whatnot.

I mean, seriously. You are jumping all over Lukus for no damn reason when the damn kid who made the topic started the retarted comparisons.

How come you didnt jump all over that comparison (it definately was never directly but it was definately inferred, especially in the topics name, so dont try to wiggle out of this)?

Here, let me share some gems I found.

At 10/18/05 05:53 PM, mats_88 wrote: So you, the Brits and the Americans, made the attack. and here's a little calculation for you.

Here is the YOU just like Lukus did. What the fuck skunk? Not shit about this but jump all over Lukus? Your true colors are showing.

Holocaust? awww.... yeah... well.... 1,000,000 victims?
9/11 hhmmmm wait.... 900 victims?

What retarted ass comparison is this? Nothing here, skunk?

[RedSkunk]

At 10/19/05 09:52 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: Here is the YOU just like Lukus did. What the fuck skunk? Not shit about this but jump all over Lukus? Your true colors are showing.

I don't have time to jump on all of you stupid little fucks.