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Wow, you're all incredibly stupid.

At 9/5/05 09:28 PM, beejrawk wrote: He did decide to waive funding for fixing the levees and pumping stations, plus it's easier to say "I blame Bush" instead of "I blame the Government" which clearly stuffed up.

I got in late on the topic, but this is one thing that's been pissing me off the most on the political side of this tragedy. Ofcourse the president is gonna waive funding for a project that nothing can be done on. The enviromentalists restrictions on this area were so damn tight that no actual work could be done to build or repair anything. Wanting funding into fixing these levees is as stupid as buying lumber to add onto your house when your not allowed to build anymore.

At 9/6/05 02:25 AM, animecounty wrote: republican media has more propaganda.

I mean the media is a powerful tool in america. Yellow Journalism started the American-Spanish war int he late 1800s when the USS Maine exploded. Yellow Journalist said it was the Spanish who did this.

No the hell it didnt. This is just the most powerful example of it. You think the first time they ever lied in a newspaper was then?

USA used Ironclads in their navy... Spanish were still using wooden ships that were of colonial style and still used cannons. As their navy.

Cannon balls bounce off of ironclads literally.

It wasnt a fuckin Ironclad. Ironclads were used in the friggin Civil War. By this time they had actual BATTLESHIPS made of METAL. They were pre-Drednaughts. Look at a damn picture of a Civil War ironclad and the USS Maine and tell me if you find any similarities.

What probaly sunk the USS Maine was its steam engine. Which at the time that was pretty common.

What the hell. If you even did 2 seconds of research you would realize the stupid ship BLEW UP. A steam engine doesnt BLOW UP the entire ship. The powder stores ignited and blew up.

From a mine. Whether intentional or not, no one knows, but it is doubtful the Spanish sunk it intentionally.

At 9/6/05 01:46 PM, FAB0L0US wrote:
What the hell. If you even did 2 seconds of research you would realize the stupid ship BLEW UP. A steam engine doesnt BLOW UP the entire ship. The powder stores ignited and blew up.

From a mine. Whether intentional or not, no one knows, but it is doubtful the Spanish sunk it intentionally.

No, there has been some talk about the USS Maine that the steam engine blew up, or there was a fire in the engine room....we'll probaly never know why or how the USS Maine was sunk...

Also, Dranigus, whats ur problem? Blackhawkdown was only asking for sources, and you blew the whole thing out of the water... Next time you have some information, back it up with a source instead of getting all defencive about it...

BACK TO THE TOPIC!

IDK, I don't know what to think of the media anymore...there are going to be its lies and truth...

At 9/6/05 02:14 PM, ThemonkeyonNG wrote: No, there has been some talk about the USS Maine that the steam engine blew up, or there was a fire in the engine room....we'll probaly never know why or how the USS Maine was sunk...

Thats not what the investigating team found out.

"The U.S. Navy Department immediately formed a board of inquiry to determine the reason for Maine's destruction. The inquiry, conducted in Havana, lasted four weeks. The condition of the submerged wreck and the lack of technical expertise prevented the board from being as thorough as later investigations. In the end, they concluded that a mine had detonated under the ship. The board did not attempt to fix blame for the placement of the device.

In 1911 the Navy Department ordered a second board of inquiry after Congress voted funds for the removal of the wreck of Maine from Havana Harbor. U.S. Army engineers built a cofferdam around the sunken battleship, thus exposing it, and giving naval investigators an opportunity to examine and photograph the wreckage in detail. Finding the bottom hull plates in the area of the reserve six-inch magazine bent inward and back, the 1911 board concluded that a mine had detonated under the magazine, causing the explosion that destroyed the ship."
http://www.history.n..mil/faqs/faq71-1.htm

Oh ok cool, now we know! and knowing is only half the battle!

At 9/6/05 02:13 AM, Dranigus wrote: Wow where the hell did you come from?

Hey I ain't saying anything offensive to you so get out of my face,

This is the politics fourm, not the everybody-agrees-with-everything fourm.

you damn redneck.

Oh no he didn't!

TO PEOPLE CALLING THE ARTICLE "FAKE":

You're idiots. Look at the adress, it says "bbc.co.uk" that's the real site. Secondly, look at the top of the ariticle. It's a "veiwpoint" article, this means it is the opinon of an individual reporter and not an actual news article.

Next time use your eyes, and use your brains.

Well, if it weren't for the media in New Orleans after the hurricane, could you imagine how many more casualites there would be? I think thousands of New Orleans refugees owe their lives to the media coverage.

I believe I have a solution: blame the communists.

They say these things as if he started the Hurricane! Look, no one alive has the power to start (let alone stop) a catagory 4 hurricane from hitting shore.

Besides, management of weather-related crisises are to be handled at the state level rather than the federal level anyway.

At 9/5/05 11:30 PM, TimeFrame wrote: All im saying is that the people had plenty of time to evacuate, it doesnt take that long to get out of a city. And the mayor could've at least helped people out instead of leaving everyone behind.

Right the people had time to evacuate, but they didn't. It's the governments responsibility, no matter what, to protect them and the city. Irregardless to whether people stayed, the national gaurd should ahve been in to make sure the levees didn't break. Lets say that the mayor didn't do what he could have, and the governer too, why didn't Bush step in then?

Jimmy carter worked something like 15-22 hours a day, he was constantly working and watching what was happening with the country. Bush spends something like 4 months a year on vacation, but a working vacation, of course. I don't care if hes working, he should be working more. He needs to be on the button to watch out for if other people make mistakes. Thats the least he could do if hes going just appoint all his buddies from college.

At 9/6/05 06:11 PM, Jimsween wrote:

Irregardless to whether people stayed,

If they had the chance to get out but chose not to, then they had it coming (their fault).

Lets say that the mayor didn't do what he could have, and the governer too, why didn't Bush step in then?

If I were president, id have figured that their own governor would at least fucking do something.

Jimmy carter worked something like 15-22 hours a day, he was constantly working and watching what was happening with the country.

So just because 1 man worked constantly, that means everyone else should be working harder? That's kind of fucked up.

At 9/6/05 06:55 PM, TimeFrame wrote: If they had the chance to get out but chose not to, then they had it coming (their fault).

By that logic, we shouldn't help out anyone in disasters, because its thier fault for living in such a hazardous area. THE JOB OF THE GOVERNMENT IS TO PROTECT US! Its a sad state of affairs when subsidizing businesses and meddling in internationa affairs takes so much of the governments effort that they can't do the one thing they were created to do, which is protect us. Instead, they simply say 'get the hell out' and get back to wasting 30% of our paycheck.

If I were president, id have figured that their own governor would at least fucking do something.

Figured? You don't have to figure anything, you know exactly what hes doing or not doing. Or at least you would, if you were at all doing your job.

So just because 1 man worked constantly, that means everyone else should be working harder? That's kind of fucked up.

I'm not saying that, however I do believe all presidents should be working very hard. Theres no reason for him to not be working at least 12 hours a day, HES THE FUCKING PRESIDENT!!!

He ran for office, which is telling us that he will work his hardest to serve us.

He swore an oath that he would serve the country to the best of his abilities.

It's a privilege to be the president, and when you have the fate of 300 million people in your hands, you can't be taking vacations. If Bush would have been watching the hurricane there is no way it could have turned out as bad, unless he does indeed hate black people or he just doesnt care about them. That alone should be enough to convince that he should be working more.

At 9/6/05 07:20 PM, Jimsween wrote:

By that logic, we shouldn't help out anyone in disasters,

Where the fuck did you come up with that?

Figured? You don't have to figure anything, you know exactly what hes doing or not doing. Or at least you would, if you were at all doing your job.

It's like you want him to be a dictator yet want every blame to fall on him.

He swore an oath that he would serve the country to the best of his abilities.

So when it comes to bush, an oath means everything...interesting. No one can serve at the best of their ability every fucking day.

Btw, im not pro-bush. To me it was either the average president or some fucktard.

It's a privilege to be the president, and when you have the fate of 300 million people in your hands, you can't be taking vacations.

There's a little thing we have called computers, does wonders really. And just because he's the president, everything lies on him? What kind of shit is this? You're acting as if no one else has responsibilities.

At 9/6/05 08:16 PM, TimeFrame wrote: Where the fuck did you come up with that?

Because its there fault for living in a place prone to disasters, why should we pay for florida citizens who live in a place that gets hurricanes every single year.

It's like you want him to be a dictator yet want every blame to fall on him.

What? How does that make him a dictator? All I'm asking is that he do his job. He just has to sit there and get a report every half hour from an advisor, and then decide what to do about it. Thats a far cry from totalitarianism. A very far cry.

So when it comes to bush, an oath means everything...interesting. No one can serve at the best of their ability every fucking day.

It would seem as if pretty much every president in modern history before him served to the best of thier ability much more often.

Were talking about the president of the US here, the most important job in the world. How can it ever be acceptale to not work harder than everyone else at it? He only has to do this for 4-8 years, he can vacation later, now his job is to serve the american people.

It's a privilege to be the president, and when you have the fate of 300 million people in your hands, you can't be taking vacations.

There's a little thing we have called computers, does wonders really. And just because he's the president, everything lies on him? What kind of shit is this? You're acting as if no one else has responsibilities.

Oh come on, like computers somehow reduced the workload of the president. Because before he had to refill his typewriter ink and deliver mail personally.

I'm not saying nobody else has responsibilities, that doesnt matter. The fact is that Bush failed his. He clearly never even took the time to ask about Katrina and what was being done to prepare, thats grossly negligent. To assume everything was going to be handled to such an extent as to not even take a few minutes out of your day is pathetic.

With the governer and mayor, it's entirely possible that they did as much as they could, just as it's possible they didn't do enough. We will see soon. But we know for sure that Bush did not do enough, he could have done so much more. And now a major city is nearly destroyed. A catastrophe we will see massive effects from.

At 9/6/05 08:51 PM, Jimsween wrote:

Because its there fault for living in a place prone to disasters, why should we pay for florida citizens who live in a place that gets hurricanes every single year.

I personally dont see why we should keep on paying people who keep living in a place that's hurricane prone, and after they get hit by the hurricane they stay there until the next one hits; and the next one and the next one and the next one.

What? How does that make him a dictator? All I'm asking is that he do his job.

And yet you want every burden to be placed on him, or so it seems.

Oh come on, like computers somehow reduced the workload of the president.

Is that a serious statement?

I'm not saying nobody else has responsibilities, that doesnt matter.

How does that not matter?

With the governer and mayor, it's entirely possible that they did as much as they could, just as it's possible they didn't do enough.

They could've aided people on getting out of the city for one thing. But if some of those people were smart, they'd have left when they heared the hurricane was coming (not pinning all of them, just the ones who heared and decided to stay anyway).

At 9/6/05 01:46 PM, FAB0L0US wrote:

At 9/6/05 02:25 AM, animecounty wrote: republican media has more propaganda.

I mean the media is a powerful tool in america. Yellow Journalism started the American-Spanish war int he late 1800s when the USS Maine exploded. Yellow Journalist said it was the Spanish who did this.

No the hell it didnt. This is just the most powerful example of it. You think the first time they ever lied in a newspaper was then?

couldn't get all of oyur quotes man I'm sorry for that.

At the time those were the proto types of Battleships. They were still using the civil war style but it was more innovated.. You didn't really see battleships until the 1910's.

Also I didn't say that it was the f=irst time the media has ever lied. Hell I don't even remember typing nor thinking that.

I used the Spanish-American war as a prime example of the power the media has over information, and how they can influence change for better or worse.

You my friend just wanted to make me seem like a dumbass spitting out info. Well I might be putting out info, but I assure you. I'm not fool. As for you my friend.

Take some social classes they'll help you out a lot man. Especially on comprehending what people mean when they type,state,or say something.

At 9/6/05 07:20 PM, Jimsween wrote:

At 9/6/05 06:55 PM, TimeFrame wrote: If they had the chance to get out but chose not to, then they had it coming (their fault).

By that logic, we shouldn't help out anyone in disasters, because its thier fault for living in such a hazardous area. THE JOB OF THE GOVERNMENT IS TO PROTECT US! Its a sad state of affairs when subsidizing businesses and meddling in internationa affairs takes so much of the governments effort that they can't do the one thing they were created to do, which is protect us. Instead, they simply say 'get the hell out' and get back to wasting 30% of our paycheck.

Well not mentioning the fact that 30% that stayed behind were poor and couldn't leave New Orleans ebcause they didn't have a car. And charter busses weren't there to get them out. Also no one is immune to natural disasters or were'll a bunch of idiots. I live in Oklahoma City. Sure its a city but we are in a state that gets more torndos than any other state. It amazed me whe that F5 hit the city because it tore right through the city and headed north for Wichita. It hit Wichita as a F4, but it was jsut awesome in a sense that Tornadoes usually don't last that long. When I looked outside and saw the F5. I saw nothing but raw concentrated power or nature. I was just real shocked man. Its a sight that stays with you for life.

Anyway with New Orleans the ones who could leave. Did leave. Those who stayed couldn't leave at all.

Now their was warning and their was time. Our government got cuaght up in bueracracy. Which is what delayed the aid in New Orleans.

At 9/6/05 09:44 PM, TimeFrame wrote:

At 9/6/05 08:51 PM, Jimsween wrote:

Because its there fault for living in a place prone to disasters, why should we pay for florida citizens who live in a place that gets hurricanes every single year.

I personally dont see why we should keep on paying people who keep living in a place that's hurricane prone, and after they get hit by the hurricane they stay there until the next one hits; and the next one and the next one and the next one.

Exactly. The simple answer is, we have to. We need Florida, California, and and the sum we pay for it is greatly exceeded by what it gives us. Same with New Orleans, we need a seaport on the delta.

The complex answer is, we have to. Were humans, not ants. Part of being humans is we don't always do what is the best for society. If we did we would ban guns, ban smoking, ban drinking, ban meat, ban fun, and ban everything else.

And yet you want every burden to be placed on him, or so it seems.

I never said that. His burden is simply to be the last line of defense, if all else fails he can be depended on to recieve a briefing every 30 minutes and react to it. I'm blaming bush, because I'm not the constituent of either the governer or the mayor.

Is that a serious statement?

Yes it is. Name one activity that the president did before that is now sped up by computers. Presidents never did menial labor.

How does that not matter?

Because I'm not their constituent. I'm the presidents constituent. And for all the wrong they could have done, the wrong the president has done is at the very least equal to thiers. He had the power to stop this, he didn't.

They could've aided people on getting out of the city for one thing. But if some of those people were smart, they'd have left when they heared the hurricane was coming (not pinning all of them, just the ones who heared and decided to stay anyway).

Do you know that for a fact? Can you show me something they could have done that they didnt?

When people don't want to play the blame game they are to blame : P

At 9/5/05 10:23 PM, Blackhawkdown wrote: That's a pretty funny article. All of that crap about the media growing a spine again and criticizing Bush. I couldn't stop laughing. The people at the BBC have obviously never picked up a copy of the LA Times, New York Times, watched CNN, heard of Dan Rather, or checked out a majorty of media outlets.

I think you'll find you're woefully wrong there old chap... here in the UK we have a thing called digital TV (theyre turning off the analogue system in a coupla years)... anyway, we get CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, Bloomberg, etc on top of our own networks. and even ive heard of Dan Rather and im not in the media business... and you're seriously suggesting that although they have a direct quote from the New Orleans Times-Picayune, they havent managed to get hold of any copies of more popular papers such as the NY/LA times (who happen to be part of News International - the same as The (London) Times and The Sun)

Besides, Bush deserves everything thats thrown at him - i mean, hes not to blame for the actual hurricane itself, but for acting so pathetically slow... 4 FUCKIN DAYS before anything started to happen. And why are people here pointing the finger at the mayor? what could he do appart from ASKING for help... he cant tell the national guard to do shit because hes not the "Commander in Chief" and he cant TELL other states to send help because hes not in a position of authority to do so.

IMO Bush being in charge of a super-power is like a Parkinsons Disease sufferer trying to drive a Formula 1 car!

Any of you see Jon Stewart making fun of that FEMA guy on The Daily Show?

Well, heres the story. The FEMA guy didnt even know people were in the Super Dome until days after the fact, let alone people had no food or water.

I mean, Jesus Christ. What incompetent assholes.

Here's what will happen, in 1 month there will be lots of crap on TV about some hearing or some other bullshit, 3 months someone no one knows about will be fired, 6 months no one will remeber, and when bush retired he will be one of the most popular presidents to leave office in the last 50 years.

At 9/8/05 11:34 PM, NGWOAnarchyPenguin wrote: Here's what will happen, in 1 month there will be lots of crap on TV about some hearing or some other bullshit, 3 months someone no one knows about will be fired, 6 months no one will remeber, and when bush retired he will be one of the most popular presidents to leave office in the last 50 years.

And once he's gone, im betting he'll then be considered one of the average presidents of the United States.

The media is like a spare tire. Most of the time its there to give you a sense of security, even if it isnt doing anything. When you use it though its great for gettign to the next gas station, but dont expect it to go cross country for you.

In other words, they sit there and make us feel safe with our freedom of the press, even though they arent doing anything. When something like this happens they jump into action, but dont expect them to keep this up next month when he drops the ball on something else thats less catosrophic.