Hacking is illegal... and why?

[marshall-novus]

Ok, we all know that hackers exist. Being an ex-hacker myself (not bragging, just stating a fact) i know that no matter where you are on the internet, theres someone tracking you down. Be it the feds, cia, wtfever. But heres where my panties get too tight for comfort: Hacking. Computers. THIS AGE. vs Ye Olde Days before Taco Bill was the richest s.o.b. on earth. You know, back when you actually paid bills using palpable money, and you used your feet (or trustworthy carborated Dodge or Chevy) instead of a segway to go from point a to point b. Going even further into the matter, to bring out my real point: If every computer in the world were to suddenly just die, every last caculator, clock, and of course, home and business PC, we'd STILL be here. we'd still have water. food. Older cars would still run. i should say, cars without A COMPUTER FOR THE FUEL INJECTION CRAP would still run. I got a van in back, and if an electrostatic bomb were to go off right next to it, I guaran-damn-tee you it would still fire up on all 8 cylynders. Which moves me along to the next part, although gas pumps would be shut off, we could go back to doing what the taxpayers dont want us to do, therefore making it illegal: Moonshine stills. Hey, power your old beater Ford and drink the same stuff it does! Alchahol! And for you diesel-heads out there, bio-deiesel is LEGAL. so your already set. And hacking has what to do with this? Its illegal because of they very reason it started: Computers. Yes, i know, the world relys on computers to wipe your ass everytime you take a dump, and im a geek, so i love computers. (Dont mind the clothes i have on, i just like the sk8ter style better than plaid sweaters and dress pants.) Killing someone is a crime. Stealing is a crime. Lying will piss the government off. Hacking, well lets see here... You dont kill ANYONE, your not stealing a damn thing, cuz software isnt something that you can reach your hands out and grab. Lying? Your telling more truth than anything, because computers dont lie. Yet, you crack into someones email account or you screw around with some old suckers 95hash (or nthash), some stuff like that, and the feds are all up your ass, your in handcuffs, and put in jail for 10 years, just because you MADE US OF THE MATERIALS IN FRONT OF YOU, that being your fingers, your eyes, and the knowledge [or curiosity] of how things work! Again, if computers turn into paperweights, were gonna be here until the astroid crashes down to earth. Use a rocket to blast open a big ass rock hurtling down at ??? mph at earth? Come on. Get real. If we die, we die. If we live, we live. Simple as that. "We could save lives by using hyper-crack technology like that!" you whine? Bullshit. And even if we do, theres always- ALWAYS- gonna be something else come along.

[night-watch-man18]

Destruction of property is a crime. Hacking destroys the internal components of a persons computer, thus, you are destroying somebody else's property.
Legitimate reason.

Reading other people's mail is a crime. If you open up someone's mail and read it without their approval or authority, it is punishable by law. By going into someone's email account, it is like opening their mail.
Legitimate reason.

Intention of causing havoc or chaos is a crime. Going out into the world with the intent of destroying or disturbing the peace of others will result in a punishment. Hacking has the same effect on the lives of those who are affected.
Legitimate reason.

...should I go on?

[marshall-novus]

At 8/31/05 01:10 AM, night_watch_man18 wrote: Destruction of property is a crime. Hacking destroys the internal components of a persons computer, thus, you are destroying somebody else's property.
Legitimate reason.

Reading other people's mail is a crime. If you open up someone's mail and read it without their approval or authority, it is punishable by law. By going into someone's email account, it is like opening their mail.
Legitimate reason.

Intention of causing havoc or chaos is a crime. Going out into the world with the intent of destroying or disturbing the peace of others will result in a punishment. Hacking has the same effect on the lives of those who are affected.
Legitimate reason.

...should I go on?

Actually, yes. Destroying property, maybe so. But is the property real? All the trillions of 1's and 0's? if you sit in a corner with a laptop, jacking your neighbors wireless network up, I see your point, but its not any physical distruction. Legitimate answers you have, but when you take a look from the other side, another view of the situation, its comparable to taking a lazer pointer and drawing out lines and words and such, as opposed to the real, spray-on grafitti you see in cities, under bridges, etc.

[TheShrike]

LOL

How old are you? I bet I was surfing the net before you were able to communicate, able to form whole words. On second thought, don't answer. After you check my profile, who knows what lengths of fiction you'll create.

You know jack. You proved this by showing off your ability to hack a windows computer. Windows is a joke, it's security is a joke. Oh, you bad. You real bad.

And why is hacking illegal? Ninja, please. You know no one gives a damn if you write your own software to do whatever on your own machine, but writing virii (in your case, more like using virii you found on some other forum) and exploiting security holes to annoy whomever for whatever reason is, in the most simplistic terms I can conjour: destruction of property, intention to inflict emotional distress, and invasion of privacy.

If you can't understand why people frown upon those things, then you have some serious issues that cannot even begin to be addressed here.

[night-watch-man18]

At 8/31/05 01:17 AM, marshall_novus wrote: Actually, yes. Destroying property, maybe so. But is the property real? All the trillions of 1's and 0's? if you sit in a corner with a laptop, jacking your neighbors wireless network up, I see your point, but its not any physical distruction. Legitimate answers you have, but when you take a look from the other side, another view of the situation, its comparable to taking a lazer pointer and drawing out lines and words and such, as opposed to the real, spray-on grafitti you see in cities, under bridges, etc.

Not really. You see, when someone's computer crashes and they lose, what may be, valuable information, it takes money to repair and restore this. So, I really don't see how it's comparable to your "lazer/grafitti" argument, seeing as how a lazer doesn't cause people to have to spend money in order to repair the "damage" done by a lazer.

and LOL Shrike. You're such a playah.

[Maus]

At 8/31/05 12:44 AM, marshall_novus wrote: just because you MADE US OF THE MATERIALS IN FRONT OF YOU, that being your fingers, your eyes, and the knowledge [or curiosity] of how things work!

Man, I'll be sure to use that argument if I ever murder people with my chef's knife.

[DaRKNeZz1]

At 8/31/05 01:10 AM, night_watch_man18 wrote: Destruction of property is a crime. Hacking destroys the internal components of a persons computer, thus, you are destroying somebody else's property.
Legitimate reason.

Wrong you ass, hacking is not that. Hacking is the art of breaking into a server, network, basicly anything that is on a network or a network. You don't destroy unless you wish to. Simple running a port scanner on someones IP (masked or not) running the exploit on whatever port is open does not harm the computer in any way.

Now you can steal with computers, but you don't have to. You can destroy things, you don't have to. You can cause havoc, but you don't have to.

Now shut the fuck up and start reading some damn tuts or else shut it.

It's illiegal becuase it's an invasion of privacy no matter what, unless you own the box, cellphone, whatever.

Now, it doesn't mean people don't invade peoples privacy everyday, over hear a convorsasion and talk with those 2 people or more and that's invasion. But there is an extent to what is illiegal and not. The goverment isn't to smart to they generalise all of those things I listed above as hacking and declare "hacking" is illiegal.

But w/e, can't stop everyone unless every single machine that broadcasts a frequency was to be destroyed and all knowledge of making machines destroyed.

[Elfer]

At 8/31/05 01:10 AM, night_watch_man18 wrote: Destruction of property is a crime. Hacking destroys the internal components of a persons computer, thus, you are destroying somebody else's property.

Hahahahahaha,

Ahe. Heehehahahehahaehaehea. No.

Hacking is illegal because it's an invasion of privacy, and in the case of fucking with data or using viruses, it's mischief.

[marshall-novus]

Lol. Your not scaring me. Not threatening me. AND NO DUH, windows is the lowest you can go. And hey, it runs 95% of the world, so what a better a place to start than something that everyones seen and used before. Its called working my way up the ladder. Im gonna answer this for you anyways: Im 15. I DO know jack. But im not the best, not a "true root" hacker, or anything like that, as far as this time and age goes. Im not a kevin mitnik, and im not trying to become one. But hey, being only 15 leaves me, what, another 65, 70 years to become better? And windows is where i started. Mac is what i moved onto, and i know your saying "a half-ass kiddie scripter is what you are," but ive been recognized around my area for doing what i do, or for what i did. Yeah, NOW im bragging, cuz its the ONLY thing people in this lil dot of a town know me for. You've worked with computers before i was even here. Hmm, why am i not very suprized? LOTS OF YA WERE. And if you think im bs'ing every word i say, you need to lighten up some. I may overstate some things, but i have a point to make, and Im not going to lie about something or someone im not. Lies dont cover lies, they duplicate them. Im not trying to start a contreversy that will be blown out of perportion, just merely covering what my view of the issues are. After all, I do have a right to free speech, right? Curiosity brings knowledge, knowledge brings power, power gets you somewhere, leading back to spreading more knowledge. So come on, take some more jabs at me, diss me, i wanna hear it. Every last bit of it.

[night-watch-man18]

At 8/31/05 01:39 AM, Elfer wrote: Hahahahahaha,

Ahe. Heehehahahehahaehaehea. No.

Hacking is illegal because it's an invasion of privacy, and in the case of fucking with data or using viruses, it's mischief.

You're bustin my balls here Elfter... bustin my balls.
Alright, so computer knowlege is not my forte. Bite me. And as for biting goes, sounds like this thread starter is one:

Ankle-Biter
A person who aspires to be a hacker/cracker but has very limited knowledge or skills related to AIS's. Usually associated with young teens who collect and use simple malicious programs obtained from the Internet.

http://www.tsl.state..curity/glossary.html

[night-watch-man18]

At 8/31/05 01:36 AM, darknezz1 wrote: Now shut the fuck up and start reading some damn tuts or else shut it.

Calm it spazz, Elfer already pointed that out. Hah, so much anger.

[marshall-novus]

"simple malicious programs obtained from the Internet."

Oh, come now. Those never work. whatever... Backing up for a moment, i never said i was trying to be a bad-ass, full-blown haxor, or the next person to create an MsBlast and land myself 18 years in prison. What i started this topic off to be is just another view of the legal issues of hacking, verses other types of crimes that in some manner are worse than this yet only get you a slap on thw wrist. I dont know everything about computers. I know alot, but i still have a long ways to go. I know it. but spending days on end in front of a computer and a pot of coffee is just what i like to do. i explore as much as i can, however i can. and you geniuses here are using one term in place of the corect one: hacker and haxor. I never said i have destroyed anything, did i? there lays the difference between curios hacking and malicious haxing. There ya go. but like i said, keep the pokes, jabs, and frowns a-comin. Seems like i got you all pretty pissed. But im pissing people off who actually know what im talking about. Country people down here dont know jack, except for their neighbor jack. So, take this how you want it, and if you want to chew it up and spit it back into my face, feel free to- no, in fact, i encourage you to.

[TheShrike]

At 8/31/05 01:40 AM, marshall_novus wrote: Lol. Your not scaring me. Not threatening me.

Who said I intend to scare you? I'm ridiculing you, chum. There is a difference. You may find it subtle, but it is there.

AND NO DUH, windows is the lowest you can go. And hey, it runs 95% of the world, so what a better a place to start than something that everyones seen and used before. Its called working my way up the ladder.

Oh. So you call using exploits you did not find, methods you did not pioneer an education? I can accept that. You still don't know jack, in any event.

Im gonna answer this for you anyways: Im 15.

HAHAHA I WAS RIGHT! Even if you're exaggerating, my experience with the net outdates you. LOL

I DO know jack.

Either put out or get out. What do you know? How to launch ÜberWINDOZEK1ll3r 1.3? Or do you actually understand what is going on behind the scenes?

But im not the best, not a "true root" hacker, or anything like that, as far as this time and age goes. Im not a kevin mitnik, and im not trying to become one. But hey, being only 15 leaves me, what, another 65, 70 years to become better?

Ah. So you really don't know jack afterall. Have fun learning. Honest. Have fun. =]

And windows is where i started. Mac is what i moved onto, and i know your saying "a half-ass kiddie scripter is what you are,"

Amazing how you'd assume that. You must get this reaction often.

but ive been recognized around my area for doing what i do, or for what i did. Yeah, NOW im bragging, cuz its the ONLY thing people in this lil dot of a town know me for. You've worked with computers before i was even here. Hmm, why am i not very suprized? LOTS OF YA WERE. And if you think im bs'ing every word i say, you need to lighten up some.

I'm amused, to be honest. So, what didja do in Podunk, Iowa? Infect the school's computers with myDoom? 'Cause that would like... go down in history.

I may overstate some things, but i have a point to make, and Im not going to lie about something or someone im not. Lies dont cover lies, they duplicate them. Im not trying to start a contreversy that will be blown out of perportion, just merely covering what my view of the issues are. After all, I do have a right to free speech, right?

Actually, this being a private board, you have no legal right to speech. Not that I'd ban you for shits and giggles*, just pointing out the obvious.

Curiosity brings knowledge, knowledge brings power, power gets you somewhere, leading back to spreading more knowledge. So come on, take some more jabs at me, diss me, i wanna hear it. Every last bit of it.

liek ogm u smell funny

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah.
You sound like a smart enough kid, but you don't seem understand the concept of property. Unless said property is "real" and tangible.

I hate to break it to you, but if for some reason, all the computers in the world went dark, there would be chaos. Sure, we'd still be here, and we'd survive it, but not without consequence. People depend on technology. Why? Information. You say knowledge brings power. What is knowledge? Information.

Funny that you hold information so high, while claiming it is meaningless. People value information, even you. So why pretend that malicious hacking is a harmless, victimless crime? I suppose it's easy for you, because you don't face the victim. Would you stab your neighbor's dog in front of him? Surely that should be legal, because a dog is a luxury, it provides nothing other than comfort for the owner.

Perhaps being able to read email, or being able to access the web for whatever reason, or being able to finish working on that spreadsheet you started the other day is of some value to people. Wow. what a crazy concept.

*ok, maybe I'd do it for shits and giggles.

[TheShrike]

OH, YOU DON'T DO MALICIOUS HACKING, 'EH?

Well, well, well... that makes it all ok.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to break into my neighbor's apartment. I'm not going to harm them, or steal anything, I'm just curious about what color their coffee machine is.

And when I end up in court, I'm sure the judge will understand. All I was doing was looking. Where's the harm in that?

WAKE UP, KID.

What you need is to enroll in an ethics course at a nearby university or community college. The world isn't the way you see it, and we have a word for people who don't care about others and their possessions. We call them sociopaths.

[marshall-novus]

Wow, your seriosly bringin this down hard. I never was trying to say that it should be legal. Its just something ive had on my mind, so i thought i might pipe up and say somthin about it. I know enough to get into trouble, thats all i can say about myself. And yeah, information is good, but i saw the matter as a direct action with a proper consequence, like murder or robbery, and an indirect action with a proper but rather overreactive consequence. And, still, im not saying that im a know-it-all, cuz im not. but starting a topic about my view about a certain topic, i didnt know id get slapped up quite this much. lately ive been looking at the codes of viruses, like dyfuca, for example, and reading online message boards talking about how someone cracked into a server, all the coding used there. im just trying to soak in as much as i can about computers, thas all. so, with this all being said, im gonna stop it at this.

[DaRKNeZz1]

Shrike I just looked at your profile and shit my pants becuase I laughed so hard (don't worry this is a good thing so far) "Pool on the roof must have a leek" HOLY CRAP UP THE WAZU! God that movie is so horible it's funny, i'm gonna go rent it now.

But on the other note, you got your answer as to why hacking is illiegal, it's an invasion of privacy. The goverment decided it wasn't fair for the un-knowledgable to be a victim to someone who knows how to use a computer. Nothing you can do about it, excpet destroy the planet. But that's not going to happen unless you're god.

[TheShrike]

You make it sound like knowing about this stuff is illegal, and it isn't.

And if you aren't trying to argue that compromising public or private networks and servers shouldn't be wrong...

Then what is your point?

Meh. Give up if you want. I'm not even sure what your stance is, anyway.

[marshall-novus]

im "giving up" cuz i had the wront idea of somthing. I'll leave it the hell alone, k? damn...

[DaRKNeZz1]

If you really want some info go look at infowar, they've got alot of stuff there. Follow the links, you'l find alot of stuff.

[TheShrike]

At 8/31/05 02:47 AM, darknezz1 wrote: Shrike I just looked at your profile and shit my pants becuase I laughed so hard (don't worry this is a good thing so far) "Pool on the roof must have a leek" HOLY CRAP UP THE WAZU! God that movie is so horible it's funny, i'm gonna go rent it now.

It was a favorite of mine for a while, because I was a 15 year old script kiddie at the time. ;p

I have the dvd. Got it cheap somewhere. Can't remember. But yeah, I watch that movie now, and all I can do is chuckle. So it seemed like good profile fodder. =]

[beejrawk]

Hackers blow.

Invading someone's person information to steal their money or identity is about the lamest thing next to death by scooping.

So to re-iterate: Hackers Blow.

[marshall-novus]

alright already, i fucking said i gave the subject up. so could someone either a. delete my account for me or b. delete the topic? ive dropped the subject, i shouldnt have opened my trap about what my point of view was anyways, cuz i doubt anyone would want to listen to what i think, i havent seen many people that have.

[TheShrike]

No one is going to delete your account.

And I'm certainly not going to delete or lock this thread.

Abandon it if you wish, but it won't dissappear. This thread could easily grow beyond you. It happens all the time.

[Mogly]

theres a school in somewhere like Africa (god im racist) were they teach hacking.

also, if something is illegal dont take it to seriously, for instance i saw this cop program on tele and there was a tramp with a bunch on needles on him with his friend in a train station, and the police just told him to clear up his needles so that he doesnt scare away the passengers.

also, in some place in america its illegal to throw a dog out of a secound story window, but the first is ok, and the third fourth etc.

[fli]

Reads.
*ex-hacker*

Oh well...
now you can ex-burn-in-hell-you-flaming-piece-of-turd.

Hacking has no legit resoning.
If you feel the rich needs to be punished--
Vote them out. Protest them.
But stealing is wrong.

Invading people's privacy and property is totally sick.
Uploading viruses and spyware is sick.
Nerds-with-no-lives, thy name is hacker.

Delete turd.exe
deleting turd.exe
deleted turd.exe

[ReiperX]

Lets see, for a wannabe hacker, bad typing. Not something you want to have when trying to actually hack into something.

You go from I'm known locally to I'm not that great, just learning. Give me a break kid. An adult steps up and calls BS guess what, you cower back down, maybe next time you begin making claims you'll actually do some real research on what you are saying so that if someone does call BS you can show them wrong.

And as someone said, there is a huge difference between knowing how to get into a system, and actually knowing what is going on when that happens, why its happening. Honestly thats what you should know if you are ever going to excell at something in computers, electronics, or whatever. Gotta look past it does this when I do this, its this is why it does this when I do this. Till you can do that, don't claim to be great at something.

[poxpower]

check THIS out:

BOLD TEXT!

[Camarohusky]

At 8/31/05 07:55 AM, -poxpower- wrote: check THIS out:

BOLD TEXT!

Oh, Snap! We have ourselves a Hax0R!!!!!!!

[denserfatality]

because hackers sumtimes destroy private property like files and sumtimes steal and thats illegal but hey its out here we just got to be safe about keeping our selves protected

[Dash-Underscore-Dash]

By that logic I could just walk into your house and watch everything you do. Somone could look at classified files or private information. Hacking is an invaision of privacy.