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I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion!

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SpaceAndTime
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I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 06:48 PM Reply

I have had many ideas, but this one could actually work. I don't know if anyone else has thought of this yet. The key is GRAVITY. It just pulls and pulls and requires only mass to work. So, what has a lot of mass? Black holes, of course. So here's what you do.
You take two small, relitively weak black holes (smaller = more easy to control), and you orbit them around eachother. (Do this all a good distance from earth.) The orbits MUST be perfect for this to work. And then you get several million devices that will move in and out, pulled by the fluctuating gravity and thus generating electricity.
What do you think?

I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion!

lapis
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 06:53 PM Reply

That Nobel prize in physics is just waiting for you to earn it.


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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 06:54 PM Reply

If you can find a way to move black holes and get them to spin around each other, then you've really got an idea there.

LegendaryLukus
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 06:55 PM Reply

easier said than done


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Drow1
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 06:58 PM Reply

to be perpetual it would have to go on forever right?

It is thought that black holes eventually evaporate

DJ8Ball
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 07:02 PM Reply

fuck man you a fucking genious

LegendaryLukus
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 07:03 PM Reply

I have a new plan in the mean time

I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion!


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0wnage-Incarnate
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 07:21 PM Reply

So you're able to move them, and make them orbit each other? What happens if they converge ? :O

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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 07:26 PM Reply

Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous hypothesis I've ever heard. First of all, the black holes would suck the machine into them, since there would be no force to hold it in place, or to make it move back and forth for that matter. The black hole closer to it will suck it in, not push it away again, and then that would upset the orbit. I think you're underestimating how much gravity black holes have. It's so great that not even light can escape, so a very large machine wouldn't stand a chance.


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SpaceAndTime
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 07:29 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 07:21 PM, 0wnage_Incarnate wrote: So you're able to move them, and make them orbit each other? What happens if they converge ? :O

That's why the orbitals would have to be perfect. Now of course PERFECT orbitals will be very hard to create, so we would probably use electromagnets or something to make sure the black holes stay orbiting where we want them.

If we ever find a way to do this, I am sure the energy created would eventually surpass the energy used to make the orbitals perfect, and thus, perpetual motion.

fastbow
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 07:36 PM Reply

I'm a skeptic until I see your handshake photo with Stephen Hawking, and Hawking's press release that he is not even worty to shine your shoes, because he didn't think of it first...

SpaceAndTime
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 07:37 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 07:26 PM, Jerconjake wrote: Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous hypothesis I've ever heard. First of all, the black holes would suck the machine into them, since there would be no force to hold it in place, or to make it move back and forth for that matter. The black hole closer to it will suck it in, not push it away again, and then that would upset the orbit. I think you're underestimating how much gravity black holes have. It's so great that not even light can escape, so a very large machine wouldn't stand a chance.

Challenging me, eh? I respect that. Sort of.
I am sure there would be some way to "harvest" the gravitational fluctuations. The machine could use anti-gravity, for example. (If such a thing is possible.) My machine was just one idea of how to do it. The true idea lies in the orbiting black holes.
I would like to see you put forward a better idea.

Jerconjake
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:05 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 07:37 PM, Matomic wrote: Challenging me, eh? I respect that. Sort of.
I am sure there would be some way to "harvest" the gravitational fluctuations. The machine could use anti-gravity, for example. (If such a thing is possible.) My machine was just one idea of how to do it. The true idea lies in the orbiting black holes.
I would like to see you put forward a better idea.

Okay, the whole thing relies on accomplishing things that are possible, like finding two black holes, forcing them to orbit each other perfectly, etc. But, assuming that you did accomplish it, there would be nothing to stop the black holes from sucking the machine in. Unless you somehow had a similar system of black holes on the other side of the machine that worked to counter the pull of the others. The mass of the black holes would also have to be exactly the same, because if one was even slightly bigger, it would suck the smaller one(s) in.

A better idea? How about a free-turning wheel covered in magnets that have the north side outwards, and another magnet with the south side facing outwards to the bottom right of the wheel, and another on the bottom left that is facing north out, but slightly further away. This probably needs some refining, but it's just a rough idea.


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FUNKbrs
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:12 PM Reply

I suggest using the flapping of pundits mouths to generate power. Lord knows that crap's never going to stop.


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fastbow
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:14 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 08:12 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: I suggest using the flapping of pundits mouths to generate power. Lord knows that crap's never going to stop.

I like that. We could also find a way to harness the unused hot air resource there, too....

Elfer
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:17 PM Reply

The problem is, energy doesn't just come from nowhere. For every joule of kinetic energy that oyu put into an object, one joule of kinetic energy is lost from the object you took it from. Gravity is not a perpetual motion device.

One of the basic laws of physics is that for every reaction, there is an equal an opposite reaction. You can't produce energy out of nowhere just because you don't know how gravity works.

Also, to complete your model, and transfer the energy for use on Earth, you would most likely have to spend more energy setting up the equipment and transferring the produced electrical energy than would ever be produced by the generator before the orbit deteriorates and destroys it.

SpaceAndTime
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:33 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 08:05 PM, Jerconjake wrote:
A better idea? How about a free-turning wheel covered in magnets that have the north side outwards, and another magnet with the south side facing outwards to the bottom right of the wheel, and another on the bottom left that is facing north out, but slightly further away. This probably needs some refining, but it's just a rough idea.

I have already thought of that, or something similar. So have many other people. It doesn't work. No matter how you place the magnets.

jobelow
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:36 PM Reply

At this level, all you need for perpetual motion is an object rotating in space without friction. Yeah, it would keep its energy level and keep spinning forever if friction was zero.

The problem is when you try to harness that energy, which would inevitably create some sort of friction, which would release heat, entropy, object slows down, you lose your perpetual motion. Useless.

SpaceAndTime
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:47 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 08:36 PM, jobelow wrote: At this level, all you need for perpetual motion is an object rotating in space without friction. Yeah, it would keep its energy level and keep spinning forever if friction was zero.

The problem is when you try to harness that energy, which would inevitably create some sort of friction, which would release heat, entropy, object slows down, you lose your perpetual motion. Useless.

You're right. It wouldn't work, then. No matter how small the machine things are, they still have mass, which would pull on the black holes and disrupt the orbit, ever so slightly.
UNLESS!
Unless antimatter really does, as I read in Discover magazine, move against gravity. If this is true, you would just have to build the machines out of an equal amount of matter and antimatter. It would work. I think.

MindControlFun
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:48 PM Reply

there are so many holes in that plan, I dont know where to begin. however, what is the big deal with creating perpetual motion, why cant we just use the motion that we have as we live our life?

fastbow
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:51 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 08:48 PM, 31SlipKnoTonKpilS13 wrote: there are so many holes in that plan, I dont know where to begin. however, what is the big deal with creating perpetual motion, why cant we just use the motion that we have as we live our life?

Perpetual motion can be harnessed as in infinetly reneweble energy source.
Thats the big deal...

jobelow
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:56 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 08:47 PM, Matomic wrote:
you would just have to build the machines out of an equal amount of matter and antimatter.

You forget the property of antimatter which holds that antimatter and matter are mutually destructive. Therefore, if you built a machine out of an equal amount of matter and antimatter, it would not exist (be converted completely to energy?) for very long.

Elfer
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 08:57 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 08:47 PM, Matomic wrote: Unless antimatter really does, as I read in Discover magazine, move against gravity. If this is true, you would just have to build the machines out of an equal amount of matter and antimatter. It would work. I think.

Except for the fact that when matter and anti-matter meet, they are destroyed. That might cause a bit of problems with delicate equipment with moving parts.

TheMartyr18
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 09:08 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 06:48 PM, Matomic wrote: stuff

You could get a windmill with a fan on it and use an outside source to get the systm going.. Then have the windmill power its own fan...

SpaceAndTime
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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 26th, 2005 @ 09:29 PM Reply

At 8/26/05 08:57 PM, Elfer wrote: Except for the fact that when matter and anti-matter meet, they are destroyed. That might cause a bit of problems with delicate equipment with moving parts.

ha ha ha, oops. Didn't know that. Well, this was just my theory. It was still better than most ideas I have heard. You people have found errors in it and humbled me. For that I thank you all. After all, that is why I posted my idea.

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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 27th, 2005 @ 01:02 AM Reply

Ya I can garuntee nothing good will come out of fucking around with black holes. or Anti matter.


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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 27th, 2005 @ 01:14 AM Reply

eventually the black holes will fall into eachother, meaning it's not true perpetual motion.


Our growing dependence on laws only shows how uncivilized we are.

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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 27th, 2005 @ 01:18 AM Reply

At 8/27/05 01:14 AM, SEXY_FETUS wrote: eventually the black holes will fall into eachother, meaning it's not true perpetual motion.

Theoretically, they can spin around each other forever, like a satelite around the earth. That is, unless you try to harness the energy. Then you will make them slow down, in which case they will fall into each other. Basically, such a device is possible, but not useful due to conservation of energy.

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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 27th, 2005 @ 01:57 AM Reply

Problem 1 - You would have to make artificial black holes to ensure that mases are exactly equal, which would well, mean creating stars massive enough to become black holes. <larger than our sun>.

Problem 2 - If there was a blackhole within a few lightyears of the earth, it would cause disasterous effects, and probally kill us all.

Problem 3 - Moving the black holes into orbit with each other, or having both stars orbit each other which is rare enough if there are even any stars orbitting each other that have the exact same mass, and then having them both collapse and turn into black holes at the same time without the effects of the other star before it turns into a black hole <super nova or whatever they do depending on the size/mass blah blah blah> destroying the orbit of the stars, or simply knocking each other out of orbit with each other.

Problem 4 - small black hole doesn't mean easier to control, as far as we know nothing escapes a black hole, which means its not much easier to control, just has a smaller event horizon.

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Response to I Have Discovered Perpetual Motion! Aug. 27th, 2005 @ 02:25 AM Reply

What we really need is more utilization of solar energy. I mean, sure, it won't last forever, but it's not like we're going to be running out SOON.