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In my religion it's:

Preacher: "you want to learn about Jesus?"

Some guy: "no"

Preacher: "well, let me know if you change your mind and i'll try to help"

We dont like the people who just keep pestering another person to go to church.

At 8/7/05 04:00 PM, Lidov wrote:

Because there is always a chance to go to paradise, even if you kill someone, you may go to the priest and he will forgive you and blah blah blah. But if you kill a person, you are not a very religious guy, or you know that you are going to hell anyway so it doesn't realy matter, the important thing is to keep them christian. Even if they go to hell, they will keep believing in Jesus.

And what's the motive for doing this? What do they accompish by forgiving people and allowing them to stay in the church?

What do they accompish by forgiving people and...?

What kind of questions is this? Seriously, is getting on my nerves...

At 8/7/05 04:09 PM, -Illustrious- wrote: And what's the motive for doing this? What do they accompish by forgiving people and allowing them to stay in the church?

If they didn't, they would say '' What do I care, I am going to hell anyway, so I will kill an other one, so what???", but if they give them a little chance they say " I can still go to heaven, behave". But usually they are pieces of crap (the criminals) and the church doesn't realy apply to them, they don't realy care of what will happen to them.

At 8/7/05 04:14 PM, revexe wrote:

What do they accompish by forgiving people and...?

What kind of questions is this? Seriously, is getting on my nerves...

Then stop getting upset at questions that aren't directed to you and/or leave.

Lidov, I've led us down a tangent from the original point.

At 8/7/05 03:29 PM, Lidov wrote:

This is sompley because they christianity doesn't want you believing in other religions, so they say that you will go to hell if you don't do that and that.

A better question for me to have asked here is why don't they want you believing in another religion?

At 8/7/05 04:22 PM, -Illustrious- wrote: A better question for me to have asked here is why don't they want you believing in another religion?

I don't know, but they obviously wants you to do so, maybe they don't want to be a small religion and to be hurt, like the Judaism. Maybe, they want to feel the power of controlling you and telling you what to do, maybe it started a long time ago to get money and now people realy believe in these things. There are a lot of options...

At 8/7/05 04:22 PM, -Illustrious- wrote: Then stop getting upset at questions that aren't directed to you and/or leave.

Fine then.

A better question for me to have asked here is why don't they want you believing in another religion?

Who´s they?

I recognize that there´s some religions that they do stick to God´s teachings and morals, etc..and there´s not a big deal with them..But there are some religions that are dangerous, not sticking to what Jesus wanted. Like...mm...jeohvah witnesses for example. They believe that only the jeohvah witnesses will be saved and everyone else will die forever, no matter if they were good people. Shezz what a losers.

Now I take my leave. See you later.

At 8/7/05 12:02 PM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 8/7/05 02:44 AM, capn_g wrote: The most wicked and those who are truely unrepentant on the other hand will be cast into the lake of fire and destroyed utterly.

so instead of giving them a second chance, God will just burn them and kill them?

Damn, he's such an asshole :o

Hell was their second chance. They had til judgement day to think about what they'd done and still decided to tell God to go fuck himself.

At 8/7/05 04:30 PM, Lidov wrote: I don't know, but they obviously wants you to do so, maybe they don't want to be a small religion and to be hurt, like the Judaism. Maybe, they want to feel the power of controlling you and telling you what to do, maybe it started a long time ago to get money and now people realy believe in these things. There are a lot of options...

Yeah, that's true to some extent. Obviously centuries ago, like during the crusades or during European colonization of foreign lands, Christianity was used as a tool of power, and in some respects, it still is--just look at people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

However, for every person who uses Christianity as a tool of exploitation, there are at least two who use it as a tool of love--to care for their brothers and sisters on earth and help them. After all, if us Christians believe that the greatest gift possible is God's Salvation--the best way we can show our caring for other people is to lead them to the salvation we received. And sometimes, hell and brimstone preaching is used.

Just like a parent will tell you to stop doing something or something bad will happen, many Christians are the same way. If someone tells you that with out repentance, you'll go to hell--it's not because they hate you or feel they're better; they want to share the same thing they've received. And sometimes, there's no better way to lead people to do something than to show them what might happen if they don't.

At 8/7/05 04:06 PM, TimeFrame wrote: In my religion it's:

Preacher: "you want to learn about Jesus?"

Some guy: "no"

Preacher: "well, let me know if you change your mind and i'll try to help"

Hell, if someone pitched a sale, going to school, or damn near anything like that to me nothing would ever get done.

At 8/7/05 05:02 PM, darkmage8 wrote:

Hell, if someone pitched a sale, going to school, or damn near anything like that to me nothing would ever get done.

We just like to let people choose. If they say no, then there's no reason to keep asking and you're probly just annoying them. And while you're wasting your time with someone who doesnt want to have anything to do with it, you could be "saving" someone else.

At 8/7/05 05:06 PM, TimeFrame wrote: We just like to let people choose. If they say no, then there's no reason to keep asking and you're probly just annoying them. And while you're wasting your time with someone who doesnt want to have anything to do with it, you could be "saving" someone else.

Ah, I see. My apologies. For some reason I thought you were being sarcastic.

Agreed, people that have no desire to want to change may never do so. The only circumstance I think it should be pressed is when that decision to not want to change is based off of incomplate or false information.

At 8/7/05 04:40 PM, -Illustrious- wrote: Yeah, that's true to some extent. Obviously centuries ago, like during the crusades or during European colonization of foreign lands, Christianity was used as a tool of power, and in some respects, it still is--just look at people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

The christianity did start 2,000 years ago, but the beliefs of now were made a long time after. Besides, I said that it started like this is the first place and now they are doing that even without a motive.
They obviously wants a lot of people to be Christian, it is a missioneric religion. Why do you think they send people to Africa with food? Just to be nice? If it is so, how come they burnt their old religion books? They want poeple to come to their religion, possibly, because they think it is right, but it wasn't made like this in the first place, do you realy believe that there are so many punishments?

However, for every person who uses Christianity as a tool of exploitation, there are at least two who use it as a tool of love--to care for their brothers and sisters on earth and help them. After all, if us Christians believe that the greatest gift possible is God's Salvation--the best way we can show our caring for other people is to lead them to the salvation we received. And sometimes, hell and brimstone preaching is used.

This is my point, it started as a tool to get power and so, the punishments were made to make people come, but now there are so many believers, that they are all sure that it is true.

Just like a parent will tell you to stop doing something or something bad will happen, many Christians are the same way. If someone tells you that with out repentance, you'll go to hell--it's not because they hate you or feel they're better; they want to share the same thing they've received. And sometimes, there's no better way to lead people to do something than to show them what might happen if they don't.

Maybe now, but at first, when the christianity was made, they made a lot of punishments and the hell heaven thing to make people come to their religion.

At 8/7/05 05:21 PM, Lidov wrote: This is my point, it started as a tool to get power and so, the punishments were made to make people come, but now there are so many believers, that they are all sure that it is true.

People believe Christianity to be true because in balance they can see all the good it can bring into the world. They see that the ethics and principles of the Bible civilized us and broke the reigns of kingships. Because the texts have stood the test of time for over two-mellenia with very, very few minute errors. Numbers is far from why people come to Christianity.

Maybe now, but at first, when the christianity was made, they made a lot of punishments and the hell heaven thing to make people come to their religion.

Who is "they?" The person who talks about hell the most in the entire Bible is Jesus Christ himself.

At 8/7/05 05:21 PM, Lidov wrote: They want poeple to come to their religion, possibly, because they think it is right, but it wasn't made like this in the first place, do you realy believe that there are so many punishments?

There isn't that many punishments. Christianity is one of the easiest religions to understand--if you accept Jesus as a Savior and redeemer of your sins, then you go to heaven, otherwise, you go to hell. You don't get this for doing this, you don't get this for not doing that, etc.

There isn't some elaborate punishment schedule set up to punish people at different rates. If they are, it's of human origin, and fallible.

At 8/7/05 05:33 PM, -Illustrious- wrote: There isn't that many punishments. Christianity is one of the easiest religions to understand--if you accept Jesus as a Savior and redeemer of your sins, then you go to heaven, otherwise, you go to hell. You don't get this for doing this, you don't get this for not doing that, etc.

OK, this just makes my point stronger, do you realy think it is that conviniont that if you believe in Jesus, you are going to heaven and if you don't, you are going to hell? if it isn't to get people to be christian I don't know what it is.

There isn't some elaborate punishment schedule set up to punish people at different rates. If they are, it's of human origin, and fallible.

My point is, that hell and heaven were made to attract people to the religion.

At 8/7/05 05:31 PM, darkmage8 wrote: People believe Christianity to be true because in balance they can see all the good it can bring into the world. They see that the ethics and principles of the Bible civilized us and broke the reigns of kingships. Because the texts have stood the test of time for over two-mellenia with very, very few minute errors. Numbers is far from why people come to Christianity.

No, people believe in christianity becaue they think that they will go to hell if they didn't, at least the converted ones. If you were born as a christian, you will be a christian anyhow, but my point is that the hell\heaven was made to attract NEW believers in to the chritianity.

Who is "they?" The person who talks about hell the most in the entire Bible is Jesus Christ himself.

Or the person who wrote this bible, you have no proof for him writing the exact same words as the lord himself used, don't you?

At 8/7/05 05:42 PM, Lidov wrote: OK, this just makes my point stronger, do you realy think it is that convenient that if you believe in Jesus, you are going to heaven and if you don't, you are going to hell? if it isn't to get people to be christian I don't know what it is.

My point is, that hell and heaven were made to attract people to the religion.

Heaven and hell existed long before Jesus was born or Christianity existed. Don't confuse using heaven and hell to win converts as creating it for that purpose unless you have evidence to the contrary.

If you were born as a christian, you will be a christian anyhow, but my point is that the hell\heaven was made to attract NEW believers in to the chritianity.

Nothing can be further from the truth. Christianity teaches that salvation is on an individual basis--you don't become saved or have your sins forgiven just because your ancestors did.

At 8/7/05 04:38 PM, capn_g wrote:

Hell was their second chance. They had til judgement day to think about what they'd done and still decided to tell God to go fuck himself.

oh shit, so they have only two chances, one of which involves being tortured for thousands of years?

Wow, keep going, I'll be convinced God is a real nice guy.

At 8/7/05 08:15 PM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 8/7/05 04:38 PM, capn_g wrote:

Hell was their second chance. They had til judgement day to think about what they'd done and still decided to tell God to go fuck himself.

oh shit, so they have only two chances, one of which involves being tortured for thousands of years?

Wow, keep going, I'll be convinced God is a real nice guy.

Hell isn't a second chance. The only second chance you get is the tribulation (the time of the anti-christ). Hell is a place for the people who deny Christ. God is a real nice loving God if you abide by his rules. What happens when a parent sets down rules for their kid and their kid breaks a rule? A spanking thats what happens! Just because you break the rules don't expect any simpathy from him. In the way your saying, the parents would be mean because the child was given a spankin?

At 8/6/05 11:49 PM, Chronis wrote: Ok i used to be a christian when i was a young lad who did not understand what it meant. a few years ago i began to read the bible to myself and started asking myself why are there so many punishments? why should someone who believes in somthing different get cast to hell by your all loveing god?

Your taking it way to literally. Many people think what happens in the Bible is word-for-word, but if your smart, you'll realize it's mostly metaphors. When saying something like God created the Earth in 7 days, I don't believe that. I believe that the 7 days is a metaphor for thousands of years, and in a way evolution. So all these fanatics about Christianity who think that science is heretical and all this other bullshit, they're all a bunh of kooks. As for the Heaven/Hell thing, I think that believing in God increases your chances of getting into Heaven, but how you act and treat others is what REALLY affects your chances. Also, Hell might not be a firey pit, it's probably just a lonely, forboding place without God. Well, that's my theory anyway...

seriously yes lets do this to god. lets not take for granted billions of years of creation, life and free will or the reason that god doesn't smite your ass right now.

At 8/7/05 08:38 PM, lAkiyoshil wrote: In the way your saying, the parents would be mean because the child was given a spankin?

No, because parents aren't GOD.
There is no good analogies to be made with God.

God can do anything. He doesn't have to punish people who misbehave, yet he chooses too, out of purely being a douchebag.
He could turn them into better people instantly! And he could re-grant them freewill! He could brainwash them and put them in paradise, he could make them start life over.
Hell he can do ANYTHING, and he CHOOSES to torture them for MILENIA.

He's a dickhole, any way you look at it.

At 8/8/05 03:38 PM, -poxpower- wrote: Hell he can do ANYTHING, and he CHOOSES to torture them for MILENIA.

They choose to be fucktards. The rules are fairly well laid out.

He's a dickhole, any way you look at it.

Only if you look at it from a self-serving, egocentric viewpoint.

Sometimes I'm happy that I'm Jewish : )

At 8/8/05 04:06 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: Sometimes I'm happy that I'm Jewish : )

at times sure but damm mate the old testamet is harsh. curse your parents and be executed, work on sabbath be executed, not allowed to have leavened bread in your house at all or be kicked out from the jewish faith. but go forth chosen ones. the lord, god of abraham, issac, jacob is always there

At 8/8/05 04:27 PM, fenrus1989 wrote:

At 8/8/05 04:06 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: Sometimes I'm happy that I'm Jewish : )

at times sure but damm mate the old testamet is harsh. curse your parents and be executed, work on sabbath be executed, not allowed to have leavened bread in your house at all or be kicked out from the jewish faith. but go forth chosen ones. the lord, god of abraham, issac, jacob is always there

Um not really, sure there are some punishments for somethings, but you won't get death for working on shabbat or cursing your parents... And if you have bread in your house during passover you are still Jewish. I don't know who would have told you that.

At 8/8/05 04:39 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: Um not really, sure there are some punishments for somethings, but you won't get death for working on shabbat or cursing your parents... And if you have bread in your house during passover you are still Jewish. I don't know who would have told you that.

Most likely from Leviticus, or in the Torah "Vayikra" in which one is to be put to death for... oh, just about anything really.

Nothing wrong with being proud to be jewish. All the same, I'll stay where I am, I like bacon.

At 8/8/05 05:01 PM, capn_g wrote:

At 8/8/05 04:39 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: Um not really, sure there are some punishments for somethings, but you won't get death for working on shabbat or cursing your parents... And if you have bread in your house during passover you are still Jewish. I don't know who would have told you that.

Most likely from Leviticus, or in the Torah "Vayikra" in which one is to be put to death for... oh, just about anything really.

Under certain circumstances maybe, but not disagreeing with your parents or working on shabbat... You are even supposed to break rules if you have a chance to save someones life.

Nothing wrong with being proud to be jewish. All the same, I'll stay where I am, I like bacon.

I like bacon too, no one will ever take away my bacon cheese burger...

At 8/7/05 07:31 PM, -Illustrious- wrote: Heaven and hell existed long before Jesus was born or Christianity existed. Don't confuse using heaven and hell to win converts as creating it for that purpose unless you have evidence to the contrary.

I don't think they were, if it is true, than the chritianity took it and made it a lot more extreme. I am not sure of what I am saying, but you are not sure of what you are saying too, there is no evidance to the both of our claims, I just think that what i claim is more logical, at least for me.

Nothing can be further from the truth. Christianity teaches that salvation is on an individual basis--you don't become saved or have your sins forgiven just because your ancestors did.

Yes you are, if you are born as a person who doesn't know jesus, you have just a little chance to go to heaven, but if you are born to a jesus lovin' family, the only thing you have to do is to murder no-one.

At 8/8/05 04:39 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:

At 8/8/05 04:27 PM, fenrus1989 wrote:

At 8/8/05 04:06 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:

Um not really, sure there are some punishments for somethings, but you won't get death for working on shabbat or cursing your parents... And if you have bread in your house during passover you are still Jewish. I don't know who would have told you that.

".six days are there for doing work, but the seventh day is the sabbath of complete rest, sacred to the lord.anyone who does work on the sabbath day shall be put to death" Exodus 31 15-16

"whover curses his father and mother shall be put to death"

Exodus 21 17-18

i could find a lot more but i don't feel like it. i'm not doing this against jews or anything but there were certain laws. like eating pig is unclean, anything you touch must be washed and you must be washed before your considered clean. during passover your not allowed to have any levened bread in your house at all.