Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 9/5/09 05:47 PM, Nev wrote:

At 9/5/09 05:37 PM, HighJack wrote: Prove it.

People don't turn into salt statues.

Prove it.

People can't walk on water.

Actually, Buddhists have found how to practically levitate on water, and I've seen it first-hand.

People can't magically manipulate the quantity of food.

Again, prove it.

One man could never find 2 of every speicies of animal and then fit them all on a boat.

It's improbable, but not impossible.

What a stupid thing to even ask. The Bible is ridiculous.

It's not stupid at all. He's asking a question and that's what science is partly about, right?

Also, 100th post for me.

Maybe PEOPLE can't do those things, but God certainly can.

At 9/6/09 03:00 AM, ph0ne wrote: Sorry for the triple post, but I came across an image that might help you in figuring out who's who:

I would call Agnostics close-minded, they always seem to stay in a Religion thread just long enough to say "You can't prove it either way," then they run away and stick their heads in the ground.

At 9/6/09 03:12 AM, HighJack wrote:

At 9/6/09 03:00 AM, ph0ne wrote: Sorry for the triple post, but I came across an image that might help you in figuring out who's who:

I would call Agnostics close-minded, they always seem to stay in a Religion thread just long enough to say "You can't prove it either way," then they run away and stick their heads in the ground.

What about the agnostic guys who just enjoy life, chill out, be contributive good people and don't care about anything like the afterlife or judgment?

At 9/6/09 03:22 AM, FurryDemon wrote: What about the agnostic guys who just enjoy life, chill out, be contributive good people and don't care about anything like the afterlife or judgment?

What about them?

What about people who push incorrect stereotypes and insist on talking out of their ass, only serving to give people a negative opinion of the group they represent?

Is there such a thing as truth? Is there one reality that we're all a part of, or is there a myriad of seperate realities and everyone's subjective experiences are equally true?

The former - atheism is correct

the latter - religion is correct

agnostics itt, go away - why argue against atheists? Why not catholics? Are atheists contributing to AIDS in Africa by condemning condom use?

At 9/6/09 11:19 AM, Earfetish wrote: Is there such a thing as truth? Is there one reality that we're all a part of, or is there a myriad of seperate realities and everyone's subjective experiences are equally true?

The former - atheism is correct

the latter - religion is correct

agnostics itt, go away - why argue against atheists? Why not catholics? Are atheists contributing to AIDS in Africa by condemning condom use?

AIDS is completely preventable by abstinence and self-control. If they want to spread AIDS like wildfire and reduce the excess population, that's their choice. Condoms are a method of escaping the true consequences of sexual contact in the name of sinning pleasure.

Come now, let's be realistic. AIDS is decimating a population and creating never before seen numbers of orphans. It is also taking place in a continent that is composed almost entirely of third-world nations, is ravaged by war, came out from under European colonialism but 60 years ago, and is plagued by starvation and incompetent leaders. A good portion of this AIDS epidemic is caused by mercenaries hired by the warlords who, if they don't just kill everyone, will kill all the men, and rape the women, often making the children watch both transpire. and what the fuck are you thinking saying "they could stop this if they wanted too"? Are you so thick that you think people are consciously choosing to see hundreds of thousands of children orphaned by AIDS and warfare?
How about, instead of preaching abstinence, he diverts some of the vast resources that the Catholic church has to sending food and basic medical supplies to Africa?

At 9/6/09 01:38 AM, ph0ne wrote: (To all the) Prove it(s).

There's laws that apply to nature and it doesn't happen.
And its never happened apart from in the Bible.

Thats all the proof needed.

At 9/6/09 10:54 AM, Patton3 wrote: What about people who push incorrect stereotypes and insist on talking out of their ass, only serving to give people a negative opinion of the group they represent?

Like you?

At 9/6/09 03:40 PM, Patton3 wrote: Come now, let's be realistic. AIDS is decimating a population and creating never before seen numbers of orphans. It is also taking place in a continent that is composed almost entirely of third-world nations, is ravaged by war, came out from under European colonialism but 60 years ago, and is plagued by starvation and incompetent leaders. A good portion of this AIDS epidemic is caused by mercenaries hired by the warlords who, if they don't just kill everyone, will kill all the men, and rape the women, often making the children watch both transpire. and what the fuck are you thinking saying "they could stop this if they wanted too"? Are you so thick that you think people are consciously choosing to see hundreds of thousands of children orphaned by AIDS and warfare?
How about, instead of preaching abstinence, he diverts some of the vast resources that the Catholic church has to sending food and basic medical supplies to Africa?

Too bad for them. Maybe they should move out of Africa if it sucks so bad there. My best possible retort is to say that you're just mad that you have AIDS and I don't, which is why you're bitching about it and trying to use it as an argument to detract from the original discussion because you knew we were proving you wrong.

Boy this thread sure has seen some action lately huh? *stretches out fingers*

At 9/5/09 03:04 PM, ExceptionalPants wrote:

Theists quote the Bible and other unproven tales.
Atheists quote science journals and unproven theorems.

Unproven yes, but far more likely. Our views our based on the knowledge mankind has gained throughout the years, constantly gathering more and more information, while yours is based off of the same blind faith that have been been around for millenia.

Holy texts explain natural events in a way that the general public accept as truth.
Scientific studies explain natural events in a way the general public accepts as truth.

The general publics "opinion" of what is truth doesn't matter. Everyone on earth thought the planet was flat only 600 years ago. Scientific studies taught us that it isn't. Not holy texts. So forgive me for using scientific studies as my explanation to life's mysteries, but it's my belief that if it ain't broke, why fix it? Science has unraveled answers to questions we thought unanswerable before, why abandon it now?

The Bible explain the beginning of the universe and life after death.
A science textbook explains the beginning of the universe and the end of life.

No, the bible didn't. It says in the beginning, god- Stop right there. If it's the beginning, then why is there a life form already there? The bible picks up after god was created, not at the BEGINNING.

Religious extremeists preach and hate on "non-believers" and "sinners."
Atheist extremeists vent hatred on the "gullible public" and scorn those who believe in "imaginary friends."

Insulting someone for having an imaginary friend < Dragging children out of school and clubbing them to death for being muslim. Nigeria.

The Bible backs its claims on "the word of God."
Science backs its claims on "logic and reasoning."

Logic and reasoning we know for certain exist. For the word of god, this is not the case.

At 9/5/09 04:39 PM, HighJack wrote:

Atheists believe that God does not exist without seeing evidence for it.

Just because there isn't cold hard proof doesn't mean there's not evidence for it. Read my post earlier up page 98 talking about how religion gets backed into a corner, and yada yada. It pretty much covers the base reason that atheists follow what we do, as opposed to your beliefs.

At 9/5/09 04:51 PM, HighJack wrote:

No, they don't.

Mmkay?

No, it doesn't.

MMKAY?

Me - Where/what is heaven?

It could exist outside the realms of time and space, or perhaps not at all.

My vote is for the latter. :)

Me - How come god hasn't given us any blatant signs of his existence?

He does not intervene.

John 20:24 - 20:30

Me - Why is it that although god spoke freely to people thousands of years ago, that he complete ignores us today?

Perhaps the Bible is false, and all the people claiming to hear him are crazies.

Perhaps. Studies show that the religious tend to have lower IQ's then atheists, so this may very well be the case.

Me - As more and more time passes, we become more and more inclined to believe that god doesn't exist.

You may, but you would be wrong.

We shall see young padawan.

Me - The only thing driving modern man into these religions is fear of punishment for not doing so, and we refuse to be blackmailed into believing in things that aren't as likely the answer as some other theories.

Logic drove me to Religion.

Oh please do explain!

Me - The atheist goal isn't to disprove god though, it's to find out the truth.

The Religious folks goal is to show you the truth.

No, the religious goal is to get into heaven, as expressed by the suicide bombers who would rather blow up a deli full of souls that could be converted and saved for personal gain instead of trying to do the right thing.

Me - If god blatantly exposed himself, every person in this thread would renounce their ways and believe that he is what created the universe.

I disagree, most Atheists have already made up their mind that God is false and illogical and that there is absolutely no chance that He exists.

You REALLY think if a huge zeus-like figure dropped out of the sky and said I am your lord God, obey me, that we would all put our hands over our eyes and scream NUH UH NUH UH? My friend, you really need to stop being so biased against nonbelievers. I understand that the only way you can explain for our existence via your religion is that we are all either sinners or completely ignorant, but for real dude. We've got sense.

Me - It isn't that we're terrible people who refuse to accept the truth, we're just accepting what we know as the most likely answer to our questions

Explain to me exactly why you feel God is unlikely.

I've never seen him, and he's never shown any existence of himself to me. It says in the bible that God is always with us, and it also says that anything we ask in prayer shall be ours. So since god is already right here, and anything I ask shall be received, why when I pray for God to show himself does he ignore me? I'm not going to post the scriptures because I don't want to look them up, but if you say I'm lying, I'll be more than happy to show you.

Me - simply because, based off of modern science, odds are we're right.

Tell me about these odds.

Would it really matter if I did? We both know that men know a good bit about this universe, and nowhere in it have we seen evidence that could be put on CNN and everyone in the world would instantly without doubt know God was real. You know exactly what odds I'm talking about. I hope...

At 9/5/09 05:37 PM, HighJack wrote: Nev - The Bible doesn't explain. It makes things up.

Prove it.

The picture is for this post.

At 9/6/09 01:38 AM, ph0ne wrote:

Nev - People don't turn into salt statues.

Prove it.

I'm trying SO FUCKING HARD to do the jedi mind trick right now, but it's a no go. :(

Nev - People can't walk on water.

Actually, Buddhists have found how to practically levitate on water, and I've seen it first-hand.

Hmmm. Somehow you'd think that would've been big news. Like BIG news. And I find it funny that you cite buddhist miracles as evidence to your god.

Nev - People can't magically manipulate the quantity of food.

Again, prove it.

Fuck this jedi mind trick bullshit. It doesn't work ph0ne, I'M FUCKING TELLING YOU.

One man could never find 2 of every species of animal and then fit them all on a boat.

It's improbable, but not impossible.

Add in that he only had a week, THEN it becomes impossible. Noah would have had to gathered 2 species every second non-stop until the floods came in order to make the deadline. And Nev, you forgot to add in that a man can't live inside a "great fish" for 40 days without being digested.

At 9/6/09 01:39 AM, ph0ne wrote:

Maybe PEOPLE can't do those things, but God certainly can.

God can't even get over a petty human emotion like jealousy. You expect me to believe he's capable of all this other shit? I know PEOPLE who have gotten over jealousy.

At 9/6/09 02:12 PM, ExceptionalPants wrote:

AIDS is completely preventable by abstinence and self-control. If they want to spread AIDS like wildfire and reduce the excess population, that's their choice. Condoms are a method of escaping the true consequences of sexual contact in the name of sinning pleasure.

Is that why the World Health Organization estimated that around 10% of HIV contractions are from unclean blood sources being used in transfusions to save lives in undeveloped nations? Fuck you for that post. You just disgraced millions of innocent dead, many of whom have the SAME FUCKING BELIEFS YOU DO, all to try and make a point in a stupid ass thread on newgrounds.com? This is why I can't take you serious. Because you are a complete fucking piece of shit, and if there is a hell, it's designed for you heartless fucks. Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself if a just God would approve of you.

At 9/6/09 05:54 PM, ph0ne wrote: Too bad for them. Maybe they should move out of Africa if it sucks so bad there.

You can't be serious.... These people can't even afford food! You expect them all to just mass- I don't even know how to finish this sentence. You're such an ignorant dumbass.

My best possible retort is to say that you're just mad that you have AIDS and I don't, which is why you're bitching about it and trying to use it as an argument to detract from the original discussion because you knew we were proving you wrong.

Mods have been contacted. Again.

At 9/6/09 07:43 PM, michelinman wrote: And Nev, you forgot to add in that a man can't live inside a "great fish" for 40 days without being digested.

Lets face it, I forgot a lot of things :P.

My friend told this horrible (personality wise) fat girl at high school that 'you're like Jonah... forever trapped in the body of a whale'. I thought it was genius.

Also, I love that picture!

At 9/6/09 07:44 PM, michelinman wrote:

At 9/6/09 05:54 PM, ph0ne wrote: Too bad for them. Maybe they should move out of Africa if it sucks so bad there.

You can't be serious.... These people can't even afford food! You expect them all to just mass- I don't even know how to finish this sentence. You're such an ignorant dumbass.

My best possible retort is to say that you're just mad that you have AIDS and I don't, which is why you're bitching about it and trying to use it as an argument to detract from the original discussion because you knew we were proving you wrong.

Mods have been contacted. Again.

Oh no. God forbid that I be banned from this wonderful forum because you can't bring a reasonable response, so you act like a child and tell on me. What a great name you're spreading for yourselves.

At 9/6/09 08:49 PM, ph0ne wrote: Oh, and michelinman, this is for you. Next time don't lose your cool in an argument. I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us.

you deserve what you get for saying such heartless things about HIV. It is not a punishment for not abstaining.

It is totally immoral for the catholic church to forbid a HIV positive married man from wearing a condom before having sex with his wife. Defend it.

At 9/6/09 08:45 PM, ph0ne wrote: Oh no. God forbid that I be banned from this wonderful forum because you can't bring a reasonable response, so you act like a child and tell on me. What a great name you're spreading for yourselves.

Quite high and mighty from a guy who used this as an argument:
'My best possible retort is to say that you're just mad that you have AIDS and I don't...'

Alright, I'll try to explain this one more time:

Religion isn't about proving what happened and what didn't. It's not about being realistic or not. It's not about explaining how we came to be. You try to look at religion from a childish and "realismfag" point of view when really, you can't seem to understand the point of religion. Religion has helped me better myself, both mentally and spiritually. It has helped me become more moral, giving me a better sense of what's right and what's wrong. It's helped me find a community of great people and friends. I don't follow my religion to explain how the world came to be. I, in fact, believe in Evolution, but that doesn't mean I can't stop following my religious beliefs. You're trying to see everything as either black or white when almost nothing in the world works like that. You should be ashamed of yourself for not realizing this earlier, even when I explained it earlier, and now I have to explain it again. Maybe it's because you have no sense of spirituality and you've never experienced religion, and because of that you've become a close-minded atheist. It could be that or it could not be that. Whatever the case is, you're giving it the wrong approach. Watch the episode of South Park, "All About the Mormons?". Despite it being South Park, it presents a great lesson at the end of the episode. So what if I believe in all sorts of crazy stories that aren't true? It benifits me greatly, has given me a happy life, and that's all that matters. Have fun with your angry atheist life.

Science and religion can coexist, because they are two completely different things. Science is an explanation for events, and a prediction of future events based on past knowledge. Religion is a set of beliefs. There's no overlap-- the two can coexist peacefully if you would all just learn to accept those with a different viewpoint from yourself. If it brings you no harm, then it should not be harmed itself.

I'm an active Christian who believes in Evolution and the Big Bang.

/thread

tl;dr version:

You're just mad cause I have a better life than you, because I stuck with religion and you stuck with your teenage angst.

At 9/6/09 08:59 PM, ph0ne wrote: Religion has helped me better myself, both mentally and spiritually. It has helped me become more moral, giving me a better sense of what's right and what's wrong.

More moral, you say?
All that AIDS stuff begs to differ.

It benifits me greatly, has given me a happy life, and that's all that matters. Have fun with your angry atheist life.

Happiness and Religion have nothing to do with one another.
Anger and Athiest have nothing to do with one another.
It's swings and roundabouts. You can't deny the hope aspect that Religion gives. But not everyone needs that in order to be content with life.

At 9/6/09 08:59 PM, ph0ne wrote: Religion isn't about proving what happened and what didn't. It's not about being realistic or not. It's not about explaining how we came to be. You try to look at religion from a childish and "realismfag" point of view when really, you can't seem to understand the point of religion.

You're one person out of millions of religious people. There are thousands of different outlooks on religion, and you're CHILDISH and, to me, repulsive view of it, does not define the religious as a whole. For you, it's about bettering yourself (although promoting AIDS for your despicable reasons begs to differ with that), but for the guy down the street, it's about killing anything and everything that doesn't believe the same as him. You're not united as a whole. The bible can be taken a million ways, both in and out of context, and it is. It's not a good thing to spread delusion, because for every person that it gives false hope happiness to, it gives ten others hatred and scorn. And I think you fall into the latter category.

Religion has helped me better myself, both mentally and spiritually.

I'm so envious of how enlightened and cultured you've shown yourself to be in this thread.

It has helped me become more moral, giving me a better sense of what's right and what's wrong.

Like teaching you that if you don't wear condoms you deserve to have aids, and that it's moral to kill people who don't believe the same way as you? I think you should look up morality in the dictionary and see if you fall anywhere near the criteria for being moral.

It's helped me find a community of great people and friends.

OOOOH, what's that like?

I don't follow my religion to explain how the world came to be.

Of course not... You've just been arguing with us saying we're wrong for not believing God created us, and we're going to burn in hell for it.

I, in fact, believe in Evolution, but that doesn't mean I can't stop following my religious beliefs.

The fact that it directly contradicts your religious dogma doesn't bother you then?

You're trying to see everything as either black or white when almost nothing in the world works like that.

You don't know anything about the world. I've been in almost every state, and all across the continent. I've met a vast majority of people all throughout the world, and I've learned so much about other peoples cultures and beliefs at my young age of 20 already, that I can't wait to see how much I know as I get older and older. You're what? 14? And closed-minded to boot? You're gonna get a culture shock real soon buddy, I promise.

Maybe it's because you have no sense of spirituality and you've never experienced religion, and because of that you've become a close-minded atheist.

Ignore my reasons for being an atheist just one more time, please? I love it.

It could be that or it could not be that. Whatever the case is, you're giving it the wrong approach. Watch the episode of South Park, "All About the Mormons?". Despite it being South Park, it presents a great lesson at the end of the episode.

You mean the one where they sing the DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB song as they explain the book of mormon? Yes, as I've said 10,000 times before this, religion works for some people. They live happy, whatever. But when ONE person gets killed by a whacko who takes that shit to heart, it completely overrules it in my eyes. You can live happy as an atheist. Plenty of people do. Religion is a crutch for some, and a weapon for most.

It benifits me greatly, has given me a happy life, and that's all that matters. Have fun with your angry atheist life.

I will thank you. You have fun wasting away every sunday and always asking yourself if you could've been happier doing other things with your life. I know I won't.

At 9/6/09 08:49 PM, ph0ne wrote: I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us.

I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us. I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us. I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us. I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us. I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us. I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us. I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us. I can safely say that you lose since you got mad and slandered us.

I lol'ed.

At 9/6/09 09:33 PM, michelinman wrote:

At 9/6/09 08:59 PM, ph0ne wrote: Religion isn't about proving what happened and what didn't. It's not about being realistic or not. It's not about explaining how we came to be. You try to look at religion from a childish and "realismfag" point of view when really, you can't seem to understand the point of religion.

You're one person out of millions of religious people. There are thousands of different outlooks on religion, and you're CHILDISH and, to me, repulsive view of it, does not define the religious as a whole. For you, it's about bettering yourself (although promoting AIDS for your despicable reasons begs to differ with that), but for the guy down the street, it's about killing anything and everything that doesn't believe the same as him. You're not united as a whole. The bible can be taken a million ways, both in and out of context, and it is. It's not a good thing to spread delusion, because for every person that it gives false hope happiness to, it gives ten others hatred and scorn. And I think you fall into the latter category.

What relevance does that have to me? I've explained numerous times before in this thread that I am speaking out of my own experience. I am speaking with my point of view. I don't understand how you could have misunderstood me, but you did. I'm still surprised you're so angry. You obviously need to read my post again.

Religion has helped me better myself, both mentally and spiritually.

I'm so envious of how enlightened and cultured you've shown yourself to be in this thread.

I've been calm, reasonable, and truthful in this thread. Your perception of my actions in this thread is what I would refer to as delusion. You kiddies are just way too tense, ignorant, and above all, arrogant to maintain a peaceful discussion.

It has helped me become more moral, giving me a better sense of what's right and what's wrong.

Like teaching you that if you don't wear condoms you deserve to have aids, and that it's moral to kill people who don't believe the same way as you?

When did I ever slay that? All you're doing is just slandering me, which is a criminal offense, mind you.

I think you should look up morality in the dictionary and see if you fall anywhere near the criteria for being moral.

I'm safe to say that I fall neatly within that category.

It's helped me find a community of great people and friends.

OOOOH, what's that like?

It's great. I met some really cool people and had very riveting discussions over our philosophical and political views, among other things.

I don't follow my religion to explain how the world came to be.

Of course not... You've just been arguing with us saying we're wrong for not believing God created us, and we're going to burn in hell for it.

Again, when did I ever say that? I clearly explained in my last post that I believe in Evolution. What you're doing is slander, and it's a criminal offense.

I, in fact, believe in Evolution, but that doesn't mean I can't stop following my religious beliefs.

The fact that it directly contradicts your religious dogma doesn't bother you then?

Is there a rule that says I'm forced to believe everything that my religion tells me? I don't stay kosher, and I believe in Evolution, although I question the Big Bang, along with everything, because it's important to question everything. Despite all this I'm a follower of Judaism and I'm quite content with it.

You're trying to see everything as either black or white when almost nothing in the world works like that.

You don't know anything about the world. I've been in almost every state, and all across the continent. I've met a vast majority of people all throughout the world, and I've learned so much about other peoples cultures and beliefs at my young age of 20 already, that I can't wait to see how much I know as I get older and older. You're what? 14? And closed-minded to boot? You're gonna get a culture shock real soon buddy, I promise.

I've been to several different states and countries, including Israel, my holy land, which is a beautiful country mind you. I saw plenty of religious people in Jerusalem and they were very happy, energetic, and logical people. I read and study a lot about different cultures, philosophies, etc. so I'd say I'm well-informed, and I'm not 14 ;)

Maybe it's because you have no sense of spirituality and you've never experienced religion, and because of that you've become a close-minded atheist.

Ignore my reasons for being an atheist just one more time, please? I love it.

Your choice for being an atheist is fine, but the reasons why you're an atheist are what I disagree with. Like death-9 said, Science and Religion can coexist easily. They do with my life and they do with his.

It could be that or it could not be that. Whatever the case is, you're giving it the wrong approach. Watch the episode of South Park, "All About the Mormons?". Despite it being South Park, it presents a great lesson at the end of the episode.

You mean the one where they sing the DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB song as they explain the book of mormon?

That's such a close-minded statement. I told you to watch the end of the episode, as it presents a great moral.

Yes, as I've said 10,000 times before this, religion works for some people. They live happy, whatever. But when ONE person gets killed by a whacko who takes that shit to heart, it completely overrules it in my eyes. You can live happy as an atheist. Plenty of people do. Religion is a crutch for some, and a weapon for most.

So only religion is used as a tool to control people? What about how our government uses the issue of terrorists from other countries as a tool to control us? What about when our government used the issue of an attack by communists as a way to control us? What about how the media pumps into our minds that we need a perfect body image to control us? Shows how ignorant you are.

It benifits me greatly, has given me a happy life, and that's all that matters. Have fun with your angry atheist life.

I will thank you. You have fun wasting away every sunday and always asking yourself if you could've been happier doing other things with your life. I know I won't.

I thought I made it clear that I'm a Jew, and might I add that I'm a Reform Jew, and no, I don't consider Temple to be a waste of time. I enjoy it very much, it benefits me, and that's all it matters.

At 9/6/09 09:57 PM, ph0ne wrote:

Stuff

Nope. I'm done.

At 9/6/09 10:06 PM, ph0ne wrote: That means you lose, so I win, cause you're just mad that I'm better than you.

I thought you said you weren't 14?

At 9/6/09 10:06 PM, ph0ne wrote: That means you lose, so I win, cause you're just mad that I'm better than you.

No, it means I'm not gonna waste my time typing out some big, long response when you aren't gonna be able to respond to it for a while....

At 9/6/09 10:10 PM, ph0ne wrote: So you're gonna act all butthurt and get the mods to ban me. Great idea.

I win, you lose. Admit that you're mad.

Yes, I'm mad. I'm mad that civilization, in all it's technical and mental advances throughout the years, still produces people like you. God bless America.

At 9/6/09 10:15 PM, ph0ne wrote: One more thing:

Arrogance is not a very becoming quality, my friend :).